Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Denis Halliday

Aired September 08, 2002 - 07:11   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's continue our discussion on Iraq, weapons of mass destruction, and the possibility that we might be on the brink of some sort of war with Iraq. For that we are joined by former U.N. Assistant Secretary-General Denis Halliday, who is in New York. Mr. Halliday, good to have you with us.
DENIS HALLIDAY, FMR. U.N. ASST. SECY-GEN: Good morning Mr. O'Brien.

O'BRIEN: All right, first of all, I assume you heard Mr. Ritter's comments ...

HALLIDAY: Yes, I did.

O'BRIEN: He claims essentially there's a presumption, perhaps, of innocence for Saddam Hussein when it comes to weapons of mass destruction. Would you give Saddam Hussein that presumption?

HALLIDAY: Well, you know, I'm not an arms expert. I'd lived in Iraq. I know the place well. I'm a humanitarian manager. Scott Ritter is the expert. He's there now. He was there before. He knows those sites. He's been there. He's seen the destruction that UNSCOM managed on behalf of the U.N. I believe him when it comes to this issue. I think we have to accept his advice.

O'BRIEN: All right, but having said that, he did concede he really hasn't had a tour of these facilities while he's been there. He is not speaking with any first-hand knowledge.

HALLIDAY: That's true. But I think what he said is very clear, that the president of Iraq and the Iraqi government is not likely to take on nuclear weapons or any capacity that's going to bring an attack from the United States or from Israel or others in the neighborhood who are armed and strong around Iraq today, much different from perhaps the Gulf War period. They know perfectly well what retaliation can mean. They're looking for their own survival to get this country back on its feet. I don't think we need to worry, as the neighborhood, obviously, is not worrying about Saddam Hussein.

O'BRIEN: Well, give me a sense of this, though, and trying to enter the mind of Saddam Hussein here, is a perilous road that we might go down. But if, for example, Mr. Hussein felt he was completely on the ropes and that regardless there will be some sort of action against him - in other words, complete desperation, would that not change the mindset? HALLIDAY: Well, you see, from what Scott tells us, he has actually nothing to throw back at the rest of the world or the neighborhood, and we know in the past, what did we see? We saw some Scud missiles, which I believe General Schwarzkopf dismissed as mosquitoes. So I don't think we -- I don't think there is any capacity in Iraq to threaten the neighborhood, threaten Israel, threaten the United States, of course, which is obviously ...

O'BRIEN: Well ...

HALLIDAY: ... just not feasible.

O'BRIEN: ... but Mr. Halliday, mosquitoes or not, those Scud missiles were able to make it to Israel.

HALLIDAY: Yes, but they have no capacity for damage, happily, and nobody was killed, I believe, and they were shot down, I think, in large number. And this time presumably, we have better weapons anyway in the United States. We'll take care of that sort of stuff.

O'BRIEN: So what about this argument, though, that in this era where airplanes can be flown into towers, thousands can be killed. The stakes ...

HALLIDAY: Right.

O'BRIEN: ... are so high that the U.S. might have to reexamine its historical decisions to wait to be attacked, to attack back. In other words, are we in an era of the preemptive strike?

HALLIDAY: Well, you see, I think you made a very good point. The twin towers were damaged. We were all horrified. It's a tragedy. But, of course, weapons of mass destruction were not required. We have to remember that. We can never prepare ourselves under the circumstances prevailing in the world today of terrorism. I think we have to also accept sadly that 9/11 was a reaction to our -- the violence of our foreign policy overseas.

So if we look ahead, I think we have to be careful that we are on the right side, that we operate within international law, as Scott has said several times. Preemptive strikes, despite what Mr. Powell says in "The New York Times" this morning are not a legitimate tool under international law. They're not compatible with the United Nations charter to which the United States is a leading signatory. So I think we've got it wrong here. We've got to find a better solution, and Scott is right. A patriot does not necessarily make out a call for violence.

O'BRIEN: All right, but I've got to put myself in the president's shoes for just a moment ...

HALLIDAY: Right.

O'BRIEN: ... if after all that the evidence that the administration claims to have, an attack occurs and thousands of innocents are killed ... HALLIDAY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: ... what do you say then?

HALLIDAY: Well, it'll be a crime against humanity on the part of the United States and thousands maybe or hundreds of U.S. service people will be killed. That's not justified. I mean, I've heard Americans call in on CNN, on other programs, saying they will not allow their children to be killed for the Mr. -- war -- Bush against Iraq. I think there's a huge sentiment in this country despite the emotion of 9/11 not to go to war with Iraq. I mean my own taxi driver this morning confirmed it yet again.

O'BRIEN: Quickly, though, the United Nations Security Council, they have a tombstone mentality, don't they? There has to be some sort of attack to respond to. The thought of a preemptive attack is just never going to wash with the Security Council, is it?

HALLIDAY: I think that's correct. But you know, of course, Iraq is in violation of a number of U.N. resolutions. But that, again, doesn't call for an act of war. I mean the fact is Israel, our friend and ally here in the U.S., is in violation of some 30 or 40 resolutions, and I hope we're not going to bomb Israel. So we have no justification for military action under present circumstances.

O'BRIEN: Denis Halliday, former U.N. assistant secretary- general, thank you very much for being with us here on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

HALLIDAY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com