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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Dr. Michael Popkin
Aired September 22, 2002 - 07:25 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: And joining us now is parenting specialist Michael Popkin. I know we saw the mother -- thanks for being here.
MICHAEL POPKIN, PARENTING SPECIALIST: Sure.
CALLAWAY: The mother crying and saying her daughter's been taken away, but isn't that the best thing, to remove a child from a situation like this until things can be sorted out?
POPKIN: Absolutely. We've got something like 170,000 cases of physical child abuse a year in this country, and that's what they do. They take the kids away and evaluate the circumstances. What happened, has it happened before? Is it likely to happen again?
CALLAWAY: Right.
POPKIN: And what's the best environment for this child in the future and this is what has to happen.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the child for a minute. It would be natural for that child to think that she was being punished. What can -- whoever the caregiver is to this child, what can that caregiver do to alleviate that?
POPKIN: The caregiver now?
O'BRIEN: Yes, whoever ultimately has responsibility ...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: ... to this child, she's going to feel as if she's been punished ...
POPKIN: Right. Right now, a lot of love and nurturing and talking about how, you know, right now you're staying with us, and you will see your mommy again. You know, these cases don't wind up usually where you never see your parents again, but it needs to be evaluated and there may be -- and there are 170,000 kids also in foster care because their parents have lost the right to raise them by being physically abusive or sexually abusive or psychologically abusive.
CALLAWAY: When someone is slapped or spanked is one thing, but when someone balls their fist up at their child ...
POPKIN: Yes.
CALLAWAY: ... and has this type of -- inflicts this kind of pain on a child, this is going over the line, no question.
POPKIN: That's right. Yes, it's a continuum. We've got a one- side socially acceptable spanking that we still 50 to 60 percent of parents still believe that's an OK way to discipline their child. But almost everybody agrees when you ball that fist or when you start shaking or pulling hair, you've crossed that line to where 99.9 percent of us agree that that's not acceptable and that you can lose custody of your child for this.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, I think every parent out there can relate to occasions when your children make you very angry ...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: ... and I mean this is a natural thing. What are the words to the wise on that? Heat of the moment is not the time to settle things, is it?
POPKIN: No, you've got to also decide how you're going to parent your children, how you're going to discipline your kids, what's acceptable to you, and you know (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that parents need to be supportive with education and training and to learn there are better discipline techniques than just blowing it and shaking. Certainly counting to 10, staying calm, even if you do believe in spanking and most, you know, professionals now don't even support spanking as a disciplinary tool because it can get out of control, because it can lead to violence on the kids. But even if you do, to count to 10, never spank, never discipline your kids while you're enraged like that.
(CROSSTALK)
CALLAWAY: And what's particularly disturbing is that the child was locked in the car seat ...
POPKIN: Oh yes.
CALLAWAY: ... and it continued. There was no way the child could get away. She apparently looked around to see if anyone was watching. If you do see a situation like this in public, what do you do, and when do you, you know, intercede or get in the middle of it?
POPKIN: The reporting laws in this country are pretty clear in terms of professionals. If you're a teacher or if you're a physician, if you're even a dentist or someone else that has a professional relationship with a child and you suspect child abuse, you have a legal responsibility to report it to child protective services.
Now if you're a civilian, the rest of us, and you see or suspect child abuse, in 18 states you have a legal responsibility. In the other states, you have probably a moral responsibility to call child protective services and you're protected. If you make a good faith effort to report and you're wrong, you're not going to be sued. You're not going to be criminally indicted. You are protected with immunity by the federal government.
O'BRIEN: It's a very tickler saying because what you're asking is for people to get involved ...
POPKIN: Right.
O'BRIEN: ... and that is, after all, a very private and sacred relationship -- parent to child.
POPKIN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: You just have to go with your gut?
POPKIN: Well, you do, but there's -- there are lines that they can cross. If you see a parent spanking their child in a department store, you may want to say hey, you may want to calm down and but, you may want to also know that that can create a lot of conflict between you and the parent. If you see them balling their fist, though ...
(CROSSTALK)
POPKIN: ... that's where ...
(CROSSTALK)
POPKIN: ... yes, if they're seen pulling their hair ...
(CROSSTALK)
POPKIN: Shaking, even shaking, a lot of people don't know that, you know there are 1,200 kids that die each year from physical abuse. Shaking is one of the ways that happens. It causes brain damage. The brain swells, and the child dies. So there are lines that can't be crossed even if you do believe that spanking is an OK form of discipline.
O'BRIEN: Dr. Michael Popkin, always a pleasure to have you with us.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Thanks very much. Dr. Popkin is the author of the "Active Parenting Series" and we always like having you drop by. Thank you.
POPKIN: Appreciate it.
CALLAWAY: Thanks, Dr. Popkin.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 22, 2002 - 07:25 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: And joining us now is parenting specialist Michael Popkin. I know we saw the mother -- thanks for being here.
MICHAEL POPKIN, PARENTING SPECIALIST: Sure.
CALLAWAY: The mother crying and saying her daughter's been taken away, but isn't that the best thing, to remove a child from a situation like this until things can be sorted out?
POPKIN: Absolutely. We've got something like 170,000 cases of physical child abuse a year in this country, and that's what they do. They take the kids away and evaluate the circumstances. What happened, has it happened before? Is it likely to happen again?
CALLAWAY: Right.
POPKIN: And what's the best environment for this child in the future and this is what has to happen.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the child for a minute. It would be natural for that child to think that she was being punished. What can -- whoever the caregiver is to this child, what can that caregiver do to alleviate that?
POPKIN: The caregiver now?
O'BRIEN: Yes, whoever ultimately has responsibility ...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: ... to this child, she's going to feel as if she's been punished ...
POPKIN: Right. Right now, a lot of love and nurturing and talking about how, you know, right now you're staying with us, and you will see your mommy again. You know, these cases don't wind up usually where you never see your parents again, but it needs to be evaluated and there may be -- and there are 170,000 kids also in foster care because their parents have lost the right to raise them by being physically abusive or sexually abusive or psychologically abusive.
CALLAWAY: When someone is slapped or spanked is one thing, but when someone balls their fist up at their child ...
POPKIN: Yes.
CALLAWAY: ... and has this type of -- inflicts this kind of pain on a child, this is going over the line, no question.
POPKIN: That's right. Yes, it's a continuum. We've got a one- side socially acceptable spanking that we still 50 to 60 percent of parents still believe that's an OK way to discipline their child. But almost everybody agrees when you ball that fist or when you start shaking or pulling hair, you've crossed that line to where 99.9 percent of us agree that that's not acceptable and that you can lose custody of your child for this.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, I think every parent out there can relate to occasions when your children make you very angry ...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: ... and I mean this is a natural thing. What are the words to the wise on that? Heat of the moment is not the time to settle things, is it?
POPKIN: No, you've got to also decide how you're going to parent your children, how you're going to discipline your kids, what's acceptable to you, and you know (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that parents need to be supportive with education and training and to learn there are better discipline techniques than just blowing it and shaking. Certainly counting to 10, staying calm, even if you do believe in spanking and most, you know, professionals now don't even support spanking as a disciplinary tool because it can get out of control, because it can lead to violence on the kids. But even if you do, to count to 10, never spank, never discipline your kids while you're enraged like that.
(CROSSTALK)
CALLAWAY: And what's particularly disturbing is that the child was locked in the car seat ...
POPKIN: Oh yes.
CALLAWAY: ... and it continued. There was no way the child could get away. She apparently looked around to see if anyone was watching. If you do see a situation like this in public, what do you do, and when do you, you know, intercede or get in the middle of it?
POPKIN: The reporting laws in this country are pretty clear in terms of professionals. If you're a teacher or if you're a physician, if you're even a dentist or someone else that has a professional relationship with a child and you suspect child abuse, you have a legal responsibility to report it to child protective services.
Now if you're a civilian, the rest of us, and you see or suspect child abuse, in 18 states you have a legal responsibility. In the other states, you have probably a moral responsibility to call child protective services and you're protected. If you make a good faith effort to report and you're wrong, you're not going to be sued. You're not going to be criminally indicted. You are protected with immunity by the federal government.
O'BRIEN: It's a very tickler saying because what you're asking is for people to get involved ...
POPKIN: Right.
O'BRIEN: ... and that is, after all, a very private and sacred relationship -- parent to child.
POPKIN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: You just have to go with your gut?
POPKIN: Well, you do, but there's -- there are lines that they can cross. If you see a parent spanking their child in a department store, you may want to say hey, you may want to calm down and but, you may want to also know that that can create a lot of conflict between you and the parent. If you see them balling their fist, though ...
(CROSSTALK)
POPKIN: ... that's where ...
(CROSSTALK)
POPKIN: ... yes, if they're seen pulling their hair ...
(CROSSTALK)
POPKIN: Shaking, even shaking, a lot of people don't know that, you know there are 1,200 kids that die each year from physical abuse. Shaking is one of the ways that happens. It causes brain damage. The brain swells, and the child dies. So there are lines that can't be crossed even if you do believe that spanking is an OK form of discipline.
O'BRIEN: Dr. Michael Popkin, always a pleasure to have you with us.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Thanks very much. Dr. Popkin is the author of the "Active Parenting Series" and we always like having you drop by. Thank you.
POPKIN: Appreciate it.
CALLAWAY: Thanks, Dr. Popkin.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
