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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Rev. Mel White, Gary Nixon

Aired September 22, 2002 - 11:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KRIS OSBORN, CNN ANCHOR: The Reverend Jerry Falwell, who has been very outspoken in his views against homosexuality, has a new set of followers, you might say. They are a gay couple who have moved right across the street from his Falwell's church. The reverend says he accepts the men into his flock. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JERRY FALWELL, TELEVANGELIST: We welcome them to the neighborhood. We're glad to have them in the neighborhood. We welcome them to church. We have many gays and lesbians who attend our church, all seeking help and spiritual deliverance from their abnormal lifestyle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSBORN: But does the couple feel welcome? Well, let's ask them right now. Gary Nixon and Reverend Mel White join us now live from Lynchburg, Virginia. They're both co-founders of Soul Force. It's an inter-faith movement for gays, and Reverend White was also a ghostwriter for Falwell. Hello to both of you.

Well, let's start with the initial question here on the table. How are you feeling? Are you feeling welcome? How is it going? What's your experience?

REV. MEL WHITE, FALWELL'S NEW NEIGHBOR: We've had people from all over the city say welcome. We know that you're one of God's children, too. We don't care what Jerry says. Our whole house has been furnished by people from other churches who say, come on, we want to help you. So we feel very welcome here.

Don't we?

GARY NIXON, FALWELL'S NEW NEIGHBOR: Definitely.

WHITE: Yeah, we have.

NIXON: We're having fun, too. Lots of fun.

OSBORN: Now, I understand that part of what you guys are doing is just getting to know people in the community, meeting for coffee, say, not necessarily inviting scholarly or Biblical debates at every turn.

WHITE: No, we're here for three reasons, really. We want to say to Jerry and to all his people, you know, he has 24,000 members and 10,000 in his university, God loves his gay children, too. We're also here to say, come out. Gay people, lesbian, bisexual, transgender people in closets all over the country in their churches need to come out like this and say who we are.

And third, this town is closeted and fearful, and we're holding something here October 25 through 27 called "out and about in Lynchburg," and we hope gays from all over the country will join us to say to Jerry, we're Americans. We love this country. We love God. We love the church, and so we're here to say it, until he hears it.

OSBORN: Well, and, Reverend, as you're referring to, there are, of course, some disagreements biblically as well as theologically between the two of you, so of course, CNN also spoke with Reverend Falwell. Let's play a comment of his that might speak to some of the differences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FALWELL: Gary and Mel are welcome as our neighbors. We -- anything we can do for them, we will do it, like we would for any other neighbor. They attended our church last Sunday, and I think they found a warm welcome. But, of course they cannot join the church until they renounce the lifestyle, give their hearts to Christ. And they have taken a one-year lease on the house. We're hoping in one year the preaching of the gospel and the love of our people will bring them out of the lifestyle into spiritual normalcy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSBORN: Your reaction to Reverend Falwell's comments saying that he hopes within one year, it will bring you into what he calls specifically "spiritual normalcy," of course taking issue with your lifestyle.

WHITE: Well, I'm hoping that by being here, he'll see that our lifestyle is just like his lifestyle. That we love God. That we love the church. That we are not sinful, sin-ridden. That we're just like heterosexuals, we need to be forgiven, but that homosexuality itself is not a sickness, it's not a sin. For us the debate is over, and we hope that in one year, Jerry will be saying, you know what, I'm sorry. I made a terrible mistake about God's gay children. It could happen.

OSBORN: I believe I did hear one of you in a report say that you believe you're quite optimistic that at some point in our lifetimes, Reverend Falwell will, in fact, acknowledge that he's wrong, that that is your opinion.

WHITE: You think that's true, Jerry -- Gary?

NIXON: Jerry? Oh, boy. I think that with time, Jerry will, because Jerry is one of the first who has ever talked to us, and I believe that Jerry knows in his heart that we're good people just like he is. And the time will come, and hopefully it'll be soon.

WHITE: He's got a lot of people afraid here, and he keeps talking about our lifestyle. We have as many lifestyles as heterosexuals do. He talks to us -- about us as an abomination. We feel really sad that Jerry has been so confused about scripture, because he does a lot of good things. And we hope that by the time we're through, he'll see the truth that we're gay children and that we're God's gay children.

OSBORN: Reverend, I wanted to ask you specifically about that. You talked about Reverend Falwell and his, in your view, misinterpretation of scripture. Falwell said, verbatim, and I want to quote him very accurately here, "The Bible is clear: All sexual activity outside of marriage between a man and a woman is forbidden by God." Why, in your view, why is that wrong?

WHITE: We believe that you can either take the Bible literally or you can take it seriously. We take it seriously. That when Jesus came, he said love is the great commandment. We need to love each other and understand each other. We need to reach out to outcasts, and right now in this country, GLBT -- gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people -- are the outcasts.

Plus, we've studied those passages. Those Biblical authors knew nothing of homosexual orientation as we know. Gary and I have been together 20 years. We have a loving, committed relationship, and it's time that these people quit thinking of us as a threat. That's why we're here to say, we're not only not a threat, we're good neighbors, we're good Americans, and we love Christ as much as you do.

OSBORN: Reverend White, Gary Nixon, thank both of you for taking the time to explain your position, and we appreciate your time.

NIXON: You're welcome.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 22, 2002 - 11:20   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KRIS OSBORN, CNN ANCHOR: The Reverend Jerry Falwell, who has been very outspoken in his views against homosexuality, has a new set of followers, you might say. They are a gay couple who have moved right across the street from his Falwell's church. The reverend says he accepts the men into his flock. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JERRY FALWELL, TELEVANGELIST: We welcome them to the neighborhood. We're glad to have them in the neighborhood. We welcome them to church. We have many gays and lesbians who attend our church, all seeking help and spiritual deliverance from their abnormal lifestyle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSBORN: But does the couple feel welcome? Well, let's ask them right now. Gary Nixon and Reverend Mel White join us now live from Lynchburg, Virginia. They're both co-founders of Soul Force. It's an inter-faith movement for gays, and Reverend White was also a ghostwriter for Falwell. Hello to both of you.

Well, let's start with the initial question here on the table. How are you feeling? Are you feeling welcome? How is it going? What's your experience?

REV. MEL WHITE, FALWELL'S NEW NEIGHBOR: We've had people from all over the city say welcome. We know that you're one of God's children, too. We don't care what Jerry says. Our whole house has been furnished by people from other churches who say, come on, we want to help you. So we feel very welcome here.

Don't we?

GARY NIXON, FALWELL'S NEW NEIGHBOR: Definitely.

WHITE: Yeah, we have.

NIXON: We're having fun, too. Lots of fun.

OSBORN: Now, I understand that part of what you guys are doing is just getting to know people in the community, meeting for coffee, say, not necessarily inviting scholarly or Biblical debates at every turn.

WHITE: No, we're here for three reasons, really. We want to say to Jerry and to all his people, you know, he has 24,000 members and 10,000 in his university, God loves his gay children, too. We're also here to say, come out. Gay people, lesbian, bisexual, transgender people in closets all over the country in their churches need to come out like this and say who we are.

And third, this town is closeted and fearful, and we're holding something here October 25 through 27 called "out and about in Lynchburg," and we hope gays from all over the country will join us to say to Jerry, we're Americans. We love this country. We love God. We love the church, and so we're here to say it, until he hears it.

OSBORN: Well, and, Reverend, as you're referring to, there are, of course, some disagreements biblically as well as theologically between the two of you, so of course, CNN also spoke with Reverend Falwell. Let's play a comment of his that might speak to some of the differences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FALWELL: Gary and Mel are welcome as our neighbors. We -- anything we can do for them, we will do it, like we would for any other neighbor. They attended our church last Sunday, and I think they found a warm welcome. But, of course they cannot join the church until they renounce the lifestyle, give their hearts to Christ. And they have taken a one-year lease on the house. We're hoping in one year the preaching of the gospel and the love of our people will bring them out of the lifestyle into spiritual normalcy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSBORN: Your reaction to Reverend Falwell's comments saying that he hopes within one year, it will bring you into what he calls specifically "spiritual normalcy," of course taking issue with your lifestyle.

WHITE: Well, I'm hoping that by being here, he'll see that our lifestyle is just like his lifestyle. That we love God. That we love the church. That we are not sinful, sin-ridden. That we're just like heterosexuals, we need to be forgiven, but that homosexuality itself is not a sickness, it's not a sin. For us the debate is over, and we hope that in one year, Jerry will be saying, you know what, I'm sorry. I made a terrible mistake about God's gay children. It could happen.

OSBORN: I believe I did hear one of you in a report say that you believe you're quite optimistic that at some point in our lifetimes, Reverend Falwell will, in fact, acknowledge that he's wrong, that that is your opinion.

WHITE: You think that's true, Jerry -- Gary?

NIXON: Jerry? Oh, boy. I think that with time, Jerry will, because Jerry is one of the first who has ever talked to us, and I believe that Jerry knows in his heart that we're good people just like he is. And the time will come, and hopefully it'll be soon.

WHITE: He's got a lot of people afraid here, and he keeps talking about our lifestyle. We have as many lifestyles as heterosexuals do. He talks to us -- about us as an abomination. We feel really sad that Jerry has been so confused about scripture, because he does a lot of good things. And we hope that by the time we're through, he'll see the truth that we're gay children and that we're God's gay children.

OSBORN: Reverend, I wanted to ask you specifically about that. You talked about Reverend Falwell and his, in your view, misinterpretation of scripture. Falwell said, verbatim, and I want to quote him very accurately here, "The Bible is clear: All sexual activity outside of marriage between a man and a woman is forbidden by God." Why, in your view, why is that wrong?

WHITE: We believe that you can either take the Bible literally or you can take it seriously. We take it seriously. That when Jesus came, he said love is the great commandment. We need to love each other and understand each other. We need to reach out to outcasts, and right now in this country, GLBT -- gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people -- are the outcasts.

Plus, we've studied those passages. Those Biblical authors knew nothing of homosexual orientation as we know. Gary and I have been together 20 years. We have a loving, committed relationship, and it's time that these people quit thinking of us as a threat. That's why we're here to say, we're not only not a threat, we're good neighbors, we're good Americans, and we love Christ as much as you do.

OSBORN: Reverend White, Gary Nixon, thank both of you for taking the time to explain your position, and we appreciate your time.

NIXON: You're welcome.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com