Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Sunday Morning
Sniper on the Loose, Part II
Aired October 20, 2002 - 08:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY SMITH, CNN ANCHOR: As the sun comes up, the hunt for clues intensifies outside a Ponderosa restaurant in Ashland Virginia, about 90 miles south of Washington, and the question on everyone's mind, has the serial sniper struck again.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: A 37-year-old man was shot in the parking lot that bordered woods there. He just finished dinner with his wife; he was walking to his car, when a single shot ripped through his abdomen.
We have extensive coverage this morning, and we're going to begin with our Carol Costello she's joining us from Montgomery County, Maryland, where command center for sniper investigation is. Good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. And the Montgomery County sniper task force already on the scene in Ashland, Virginia meeting with detectives there, and then I suspect that they would help detectives there search for any sort of evidence the shooter may have left behind.
To bring you up to date, just a little more on what happened last night, we believe the shooting happened between 8:00 and 8:30 eastern time last night. This 37-year-old man was leaving the Ponderosa restaurant with his wife, she thought she heard a car backfire, she didn't realize her husband been shot until he turned around told he he'd been shot, and then he dropped to his knees. He remains in the hospital this morning, and he's in pretty bad shape.
I want to go live now to Ashland, Virginia, where the police presence is picking up. Ed Lavandera is there. Ed, bring us up to date.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, in about two hours, authorities here in Ashland will hold a press briefing, when for the first press briefing of the morning to get us to speed on what's been happening overnight and what's expected throughout the rest of the day. What we're seeing here is we just took a little walk through the -- to the side here, we've seen the cadets starting to walk off that area behind -- that wooded area behind the Ponderosa Steak House restaurant, which you see behind me, and this is similar to what we've seen at many of the other shootings, where cadets walking off the area looking every little square inch of the ground that you see behind me, looking for any kind of clues or evidence that they might be able to find. And of course this scene last night, about 8:00 last night, was extremely chaotic, as traffic was shut down along interstate 95, which is just about a half mile away, from where this restaurant is. And the shooting actually took place behind the restaurant, that's authorities and investigators are focusing on that part of the restaurant this morning, they're -- the initial suspicion or thought is, that perhaps the shots were either fired from behind the -- perhaps like the Burger King restaurants that's just off to the side, or somewhere along that wooded area back there, and that's why they're focusing their attention in that area this morning, and the shooting very eerily similar to some of the other sniper shootings that have already been confirmed to the sniper.
One shot fired, an unsuspecting victim, the 37-year-old man who just leaving the restaurant with this wife, and also the initial search for a white mini van with a ladder rack -- that was a -- the early call that went out last night. They say no particular witness what saw a white mini van here at the scene, but they thought given that, since they're going to treat this as if it were a sniper shooting, that's why they put up that call, and that information out to the public to keep an eye out for that mini van.
The authorities explaining why they're focusing on that back part of that wooded area behind the restaurant last night is the chaos ensues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF FREDERIC PLEASANTS JR., ASHLAND, VA POLICE DEPARTMENT: She stated that her husband, they were walking together, she heard a sound, but didn't think, or didn't relate it to a gunshot. Her husband took about three steps, and then began to collapse in the parking lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: Now again, this shooting hasn't been officially connected to the sniper shooting, but as you can tell here by the police presence and the investigator presence, then the task force presence that is already on the ground here in Ashland, that they are without question treating this as if it were a sniper shooting, until they can prove it otherwise, or prove it to be the case -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And again, Ed, there is an AP wire report out that this time the shooter was about 100 yards away from the man he shot. Now if this is connected to the sniper shooting, this is a lot closer than the sniper has been before, and perhaps it was because there are so many -- there are so many escape routes around that area.
LAVANDERA: There has been -- in the other -- the other similar issue here is that we're so close to Interstate 95. There's also a road that is behind that wooded area, but I'm told that it's quite a distance actually to walk through that, so I don't know how much wait investigators here are putting on the fact that perhaps maybe somebody might have walked through that wooded area, and then retreated back through that wooded area. So, perhaps something that they're looking at this morning as well.
COSTELLO: Understand it, and I meant to say 100 feet, not 100 yards, and previous sniper shootings, the police believe the shooter was 100 -- between 100 and 150 yards away. In this shooting, we're not saying it connected to the sniper officially, but in this shooting they believe the shooter was only 100 feet away.
Thank you very much, Ed Lavandera, for bringing us up to date from Ashland Virginia.
Let's go ahead now to the hospital in Richmond, where this man is struggling to survive. Patty Davis is there -- any new information out.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this man is still fighting for his life, here at the medical -- the medical college of Virginia, a hospital here in Richmond Virginia, that's about 15 miles south of Ashland were he was shot. Coming out of that Ponderosa last night, shot in the abdomen, a very serious wound, he was rushed to the hospital here, he is still in critical, but guarded condition this morning.
Here's what a hospital spokeswoman had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shortly after 8:00 our trauma center was notified, the victim got here around 8:30, he went into surgery around 9:00, surgery lasted about three hours, shortly after midnight, he was out of surgery. He's in the intensive care unit right now, in critical condition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: Now, police do not have critical piece of evidence in this case, and that is the bullet. That is because is because the bullet is still lagged inside this man's body. The surgeons did not try to recover it. We're not told why in fact, they did not try to recover it, but they did not -- there may be some additional surgeries were they'll have an opportunity to go back in and get a piece of that bullet -- that is what likely, if anything will connect this to the other sniper shootings, if this in indeed the work of the sniper.
Now, the Ashland police chief says, that this man was not from this area, in fact, he was passing through town, he was gassing up the car, and then had a little bit to eat at this Ponderosa with his wife when he gunned down -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know, one of the odd things about this, is this man has just been shot in the stomach, yet he was talking to paramedics on the way to the hospital.
DAVIS: That's right, he was conscious, he was we're told, talking to paramedics -- talking to hospital workers, and we are told that it's critical, but guarded, he was very unstable over the night, he is now getting progressively more stable as the time progresses here. So, his condition seemed to stabilize somewhat, but still in very precarious situation in terms of prognosis. They're saying they're not sure whether this man is going to live or not -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And of course, police are not giving out his name, because he is considered a witness in this case.
DAVIS: That's right, he's considered a witness in this case, as is his wife -- they're not going to identify them -- those other two shooting victims that have not died, the woman at the Michael's store in Spotsylvania County, also that 13-year-old boy in Bowie, Maryland -- excuse me -- almost two weeks ago, who was gunned down, is still in the hospital -- children's hospital in Washington D.C. -- his condition much improved, but none of them are being identified. It was dark there in the parking lot though, not sure if anybody saw anything happen in terms of this man or his wife, but they'll certainly want to talk to him and his wife, once his condition improves -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Most definitely. Patty Davis -- thank you, and again the 43-year-old victim who managed to survive the snipers gunshots released from the hospital and that 13-year-old Bowie boy does remain in the hospital this morning.
Let's head back to Atlanta, and Larry.
SMITH: OK, Carol, thanks so much, Ed, and Patty as well. Stay with CNN's latest on this investigation. Later this morning, we'll take you Ashland, Virginia, where police are planning a news conference -- expected at 10:00 a.m. Eastern time for more on this latest shooting and what connections they have, possibly to the shootings that have been going on this month in Washington, D.C. area.
CALLAWAY: We have been inundated with e-mail this morning concerning this topic, and we are taking your question about the story. You can e-mail us at wam@cnn.com, we will read some of your questions and your comments throughout the next couple of hours.
SMITH: Here to give us an insight into the sniper investigation and shooting in Virginia, this latest shooting, CNN's security analyst Kelly McCann is standing by live in Washington. Kelly, good to see you again this morning. You believe -- a, do you believe that this is the work of the same person or persons responsible for the eleven shootings in the D.C. area?
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: It's a leap to know that he's -- that these people, or this person is the same, but suffice to say, it was a stand off attack with a long range weapon. There was no personal contact prior to the incident -- so, you can rule, out, you know, just aggravation or some of the emotional things that we see day to day, and similarly its doubtful that this particular person was targeted, in other words, he wasn't time and place predictable, he probably didn't know that he was going to stop there for gas and to eat some food. So, for someone to pick that place knowing that he would be there at that time is improbable -- if you put those pieces together, it sounds like elements of the same person.
SMITH: As we talked last hour -- these are all at random -- there's really -- other than there's none at 3:00 in the morning, these shootings are all very random, and now this even more random. Is it a stretch to consider though, these attacks to be the actions of terrorists?
MCCANN: It's a stretch only because it's not substantiated. In other words, we know that al Qaeda, you know, has received sniper training, long range precision rifle training, we've seen that in the video tapes that we've taken out of Afghanistan. So, we know that, that capability exists, and not knowing too much more about the ability, the particular ability of this person, other than the hit, the center mass target at 150 yards. Remember that all marines and soldiers qualify to their weapons whether they're (UNINTELLIGIBLE) people, out to 500 yards with open iron sights -- so, as Eric had said earlier, what he's doing is not necessarily, you know, an amazing act of marksmanship.
Putting all of that together, then you would beg the question, then why would they be doing this -- why wouldn't they claim it, why wouldn't they say, "See, we, al Qaeda are so strong, we can reach out and do this," and that would beg the question, "Look here, while we do something else over here." There's over 1,000 people, law enforcement officials involved in this investigation -- you know that some things have gone wanting, because of the focus on this, which might lend us to believe that other things that normally wouldn't pass scrutiny, can.
SMITH: So, you think it could be more along the lines of maybe someone who is maybe just looking for attention in strange way.
MCCANN: You know, I'd have to, I'd have to listen to Casey, I mean shrink wrapping people is not my specialty -- so, I don't know who this person is, the only thing I can say is talk to the tactical part of what he's doing instead of the mechanical function.
Casey seems to believe most strongly that it is an individual person or co-dependent kind of relationship between two people, so I've got to go with that.
SMITH: OK, Kelly McCann, thanks so much for joining us -- more, I know we'll talk to you more this morning once we get more insight in this latest shooting that we do want to again say that it is not -- it has not been certain that it's linked to the other shootings in the Washington D.C. area.
CALLAWAY: You know, we're been asking for e-mail all morning, you certainly have been sending it to us, a lot of opinions on how we're covering this story, and some people obviously saying that we're giving it too much coverage, it is our privilege, and our responsibility to bring this information to you -- some speculation by some of our viewers that we're giving out too much information, but you know, like I said, it is our responsibility to bring as much information, accurate information to you as we can. We're also getting some e-mail about how this is affecting the D.C. area Larry, I wanted to read this, because I know you are going to be interested in this.
"Being the head coach of a Hershey, Pennsylvania travel ice hockey team, I was forced to cancel an away game with the Howard county Maryland team, because my 13 and 14 year old players were frightened by the sniper shootings. These incidents very disturbing -- it's terrible that our youth has to be exposed to this violence, you know."
SMITH: Sure, and Halloween coming up as well, and that's a concern for many parents -- also, and it -- it's now has stretched outside of the D.C. metro area, so a concern as well the psyche of people, not just in that area, but in the neighboring states as well. I mean, this could happen walking out of your work place, or your church even this morning.
CALLAWAY: A lot of people sending us e-mail from Ashland this morning, saying that, "There's not doubt in their minds that is was the sniper," because they say things like that just don't happen in their fine town.
SMITH: Last first shooting since February.
CALLAWAY: Yes, and also, you know, we were talking about the football games, and in this case the hockey, the hockey games, a lot of these high schools are having to have their games in clan descent locations, everyone meeting at the school, and then going. Somehow we find a way to continue what we're doing, our everyday activities, despite what we say to the sniper right.
We're going to continue our coverage everyone, stay with us, back with more in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CALLAWAY: Welcome back, everyone, as we continue rolling coverage this morning, on the search for the sniper in the D.C. area, a 37-year-old man shot last night, about 90 miles outside of Washington in Ashland Virginia, no official word on whether or not this was the work of the sniper, of course ballistics playing a key role in this investigation.
Joining us now, fire arms analyst, retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney. Thanks for being back with us, Eric.
SGT. MAJ. ERIC HANEY (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Sure.
CALLAWAY: You know we've said that the -- we want to remind everyone that they have not been able to retrieve the bullet out of this 37-year-old victim, who is still of course in the hospital in critical condition, he has undergone a lot of surgery -- I mean, we really didn't get to finish our conversation this earlier in the day -- is there anyway, if they're not able to retrieve this bullet, that they will be able to still, somehow, I don't know, maybe perhaps through ultrasound, or any other abilities to get a good look a this -- will they be able to find out where this -- if this is the same bullet, or will they have to retrieve it. HANEY: No, more than likely no, they have to retrieve that bullet and it has to go to the lab and be inspected microscopically.
CALLAWAY: Yes -- some discussion also this morning on the close proximity of this shooting as compared to the other ones; your thoughts on that?
HANEY: No one's really been getting a good handle on this, and a lot of that's just going on erroneous reports. The average shot has been at 75 meters. The longest up to date has been at 100 meters, there was a miss at 100 meters -- so, you really don't know until you get on the site, do a back analysis from the victim, and determine where the shot came from.
CALLAWAY: Some people saying, in the e-mail that we're receiving this morning, how dare you say that this guy, or this sniper is not a good shooter, when it's been one shot, and every victim has been in most -- well, except for two cases for far we've seen, has been fatally shot.
What are your thoughts on that and why do you think that this is not expert marksman.
HANEY: The ranges are very close as I said, average is about 75 meters, and the human torso's a thick target, and we've seen when the range gets a little bit longer than usual, they wind up with an abdominal shot. So, he really doesn't understand the trajectory of his rifle, which thoughtfully, you know, thankfully several people have survived, you know, the bad part is the majority have been killed.
CALLAWAY: I want to read to you this e-mail that we received from Kevin in Johnstown Pennsylvania who's wondering regarding the ballistics evidence, "Have you heard from any of the investigators, or do the experts know that type of ammunition this is, besides the caliber.
HANEY: You can determine that it is -- it's hunting ammunition, it's soft point ammunition. The reason you probably know that is the bullets staying inside the body. Where it military ammunition, it would zip right through, particularly through the abdomen through the torso.
CALLAWAY: We've heard of the things, so called, cop killer bullets, and we also know that they're -- some of the -- one of the bullets was at least fragmented -- so, does that tell us anything?
HANEY: Yes, it tells you at close range that bullet is going to come apart. All of the bullets are severely distorted, but fortunately, with the soft point ammunition, hunting ammunition, the base of the bullet stays in tact, and that's where the markings of the rifle barrel are found, they're on the base of the bullet.
CALLAWAY: You really believe that this fingerprinting -- all weapons -- registered weapons is a good idea. HANEY: Oh, I sure do. I lived in Panama for number of years, that was my last posting in the military -- Panamanian laws, weapons ownership is unrestricted, but every weapon sold goes to the police, you and the police, and you bring in five rounds, they fire the rounds, the keep the rounds and the shell casings, and that weapon ever shows up in a crime the have a starting point, and that's what we would have is a starting point.
CALLAWAY: The chances are, Eric, that we would know the history of this weapon at least, if we'd had that right.
HANEY: That much, and you hear some pundit saying, "Oh, you know, the barrels changed and all" -- well, they do if you shoot 2,000 rounds through them. All barrels eventually were out, but most weapons are never shot that many rounds. So, you're going to have a good starting point, and also with the shell casings, there are distinctive marks that are placed on that.
CALLAWAY: Do you think police are going to be able to learn anything from this shooting that they were not able to learn from the other one?
HANEY: They're putting together a body of evidence, and I think they're going to get a lot closer in how to shut an area down. I've been convinced all along, he's jumping immediately out into interstates -- on most of these shootings, they take place one major intersection away from an interstate. So, if you look at him and say, "Ah, he's moving straight to I-95," but if he's saying "Ah, they think I'm moving to I--95, but I understand the smaller roads and the county roads in the rural city areas and I believe that's what he's using to make their get away.
CALLAWAY: We know that a couple of those roads were shut down last night within about seven minutes, which is fairly fast, but obviously not fast enough if they're fleeing. Do you believe they're fleeing, or do you think they're staying?
HANEY: No, they're fleeing -- they're getting away. They have a sanctuary somewhere, and they go to that place after every shooting, and it's a place where they feel comfortable.
CALLAWAY: I say they, Eric, because I know that you believe that there's more than one shooter involved in this, we'll talk with you more about that later on this morning.
Thank you for coming back with us, and chatting, that's our firearms analyst, retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney. Thanks, Eric.
HANEY: Sure.
SMITH: Good information, we're also going to speak as well in a few moments to our CNN criminologist Casey Jordan, who has more on the theories, lone gunman group of people, who police should be looking at, and also the media coverage, the criticism of that, and she's going talk about that as well. CALLAWAY: We have been getting that in our e-mails, some criticism this morning, not just about us, but just in general...
SMITH: Right.
CALLAWAY: ... how the media's been covering this. And you can send us your thoughts at wam@cnn.com, we are reading them everyone, as you can see in this last interview, and I am asking the questions that you're passing along so send them to us, we will continue right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SMITH: Right now investigators are treating last night's shooting in Virginia as the latest sniper attack, and if that's the case it would be the farthest south the sniper has traveled from the D.C. area, and there are some other differences, for more analysis we are joined now once again by CNN criminologist Casey Jordan.
Casey, good morning to you.
CASEY JORDAN, CNN CRIMINOLOGIST: Good morning.
SMITH: Let's start first with the location, 90 miles south of Washington, on I-95 in Ashland, is this location an effort to possibly weaken the investigation and kind of weaken the intensity, and kind of thin out the resources of the investigation.
JORDAN: I don't even think it's that complicated; I think that there was a great deal of publicity after Monday night's shooting, the police were extremely articulate and verbal about the fact that they were going to use pentagon type technology, they were stepping up their efforts, they had recruited increased manpower, they had plans in place if there was future shootings. And I think that what all of this did, was simply displace the shooter, it certainly didn't discourage him or deter him for them, from continuing their shooting, but it drove them to a new geographic location, where they may have decided they were outside the perimeter of police control.
We saw that the plan was in place, I think it worked tremendously well, but I think that there was a certain element of surprise, I'm not sure anyone predicted that it would have gone so far south so quickly.
SMITH: It was interesting thought because of the snipers detailed knowledge of the road systems (UNINTELLIGIBLE) didn't (ph) know if it's male or female, didn't give a name. The escape routes available could it be someone involved in a delivery truck business or something like that.
JORDAN: That is the way that we would think in this particular assessment, absolutely, especially if you're one to put some credence on the white van theory. It's a very typical delivery vehicle, also a construction vehicle, somebody who might be a tradesman or involved in repairs, maintenance, go to constructions sites -- it also falls in line because of course, people in this sort of profession travel tremendously they know all the back allies, how to get into, for instance, the back of a Home Depot shopping complex, or a construction site that was hidden from the view of the main highway. This is pure conjecture, but that is exactly the sort of thinking that is in foot in trying to assess what kind of person this is.
SMITH: Casey, we in the media have been bashed over our coverage of these incidences since they began earlier this month -- your thoughts on that.
JORDAN: Well, I, in my studies have found occasion to be critical of the media in the past -- so, I'm not it's number one defender but this case, as I've said repeatedly throughout the past week -- this case is something that really has people baffled and scared. And I think that the frustration felt by the police is also felt by the public, but we have a public safety issue here, we are really we're really good at responding to these shootings, but the police have not given us any cause to think that we are getting closer to capturing this shooter. That being the case, I think the media is extremely instrumental in getting information to the pubic, which can help capture this person.
We have found that media has been instrumental in capturing, or at least had a positive influence in perhaps two thirds of a predatory violent criminal offenses -- that they can actually play a very important role in capturing. So, I personally think that as much as people may get tired of hearing about these shooting, I haven't seen exploitation or glorification of the killer certainly, and I think that this may be our best hope of finding this perpetrator.
SMITH: Casey, I've got time for one very quick question -- couple of seconds; is this a thrill seeker driven by the media.
JORDAN: I believe the person is absolutely a thrill killer, but I think the thrill comes from the shoot -- granted this individual, in my assessment, is very insecure and gets a lot of ego pumped up by seeing himself or themselves on television. They want to live in infamy, and media may be a vehicle that helps deliver that -- but frankly, it's the crimes that are going to cause this person to live in infamy, not the media coverage.
SMITH: OK, Casey, on that we're going to have to stop right now, but thanks again for joining us; once again this morning Casey Jordan, our CNN criminologist.
JORDAN: Great to be here.
SMITH: OK, thank you.
CALLAWAY: And we should say that she will be back in just a little while to answer some of your questions that you're sending to us -- so, thank you for that e-mail -- take a break, more in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS ALERT) CALLAWAY: In woods behind a restaurant in Ashland, Virginia, investigators looking for some clues that might tie them -- last night's shooting to the serial sniper. A man was hit in the abdomen with a single bullet as he and his wife left a Ponderosa restaurant. This occurred about 90 miles south of Washington. And for the very latest on this, we're going to head back to Montgomery County, Maryland and Carol Costello -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know, almost five full days had passed without an incident of a shooting, and last night around eight o'clock, between 8:00 and 8:30 Eastern time, maybe the sniper struck again, this time in Ashland, Virginia, as we said, which is about 80 miles south of the D.C. area.
The Montgomery County sniper task force is already there talking to local authorities. Ed Lavandera is there, too. Ed, I have a number of questions for you this morning. Again, bring us up to date with what's going on there now. Cadets are searching for any evidence, aren't they?
LAVANDERA: They're about to get that kind of work started. We just had a quick little briefing with one of the officers here on the ground. They're saying they're waiting for the cloud cover to break up, then they're going to start working into that wooded area that you see behind the Ponderosa restaurant. They had that line of cadets that will basically walk hand in hand basically across this crime scene looking for any kind of clues or evidence that they may be able to come across.
And what is actually happening right now is that authorities here in Ashland are on a teleconference call with all of the authorities and all the investigators working the sniper case. There's a teleconference that is going on between all of these different agencies. That is expected to last perhaps quite a while. The press briefing that was scheduled for 10:00 Eastern time here has now been kind of pushed back in a fluid mode. They say that could happen now anytime between 10 and 11 because of that teleconference call. There's all these authorities that we suspect are comparing notes and sharing information at this point. That is what's happening on the ground here in Ashland -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And I have another question about that, because there are so many jurisdictions involved in this investigation. The FBI is involved, the ATF is involved, the military is involved, Customs Service agents are involved. We believe the U.S. Park Police is involved. The DEA has offered to help, and now there's another local jurisdiction in the mix. How is this all working? Will the local authorities there work with the task force, too?
LAVANDERA: Well, the way I have heard it described over the last couple of weeks is is that I think someone used the analogy of the table here and everyone comes to the table, and is able to compare notes and bring their notes of each particular case.
But as you might -- we can obviously deduce that that table is getting extremely larger, because you have different police departments, different sheriff's deputies, the federal and state authorities are investigating this as well, as well as the military support that has been offered in the search for this sniper as well. So, this is a table that if you can use that analogy, continues to grow and grow, unfortunately, and this is a sign of just how tremendous this case has become and how much influence and manpower it's taking to catch the sniper.
COSTELLO: The other thought that I had is I believe that if this shooting is connected to the sniper in Virginia, that brings the total number of shootings by the sniper in Virginia to five. And at some point -- I know Montgomery County, Maryland, is spearheading the investigation. We always hear from Chief Charles Moose. Might that change?
LAVANDERA: It's hard to say. You know, publicly, everyone here has been saying that these are still cases that need to be investigated on the local level. This shooting here is in Ashland. It needs to be investigated -- authorities here will tell you it probably needs to be investigated by the local authorities, as well as in the different cities that each of these shootings have happened. And for the most part, all of these different agencies say they're working well at this table together and they're using the help of the FBI and the federal agencies. And when question having been brought up as to whether or not the FBI or federal authorities will eventually take over these cases, many of the authorities here are quick to downplay that and just say, hey, for now, everyone is getting along quite well and working on this case as best they can.
COSTELLO: Another thing I wanted to ask you about is Ashland, Virginia, itself. Not many of us across the country have been there. Tell us a little bit about the area.
LAVANDERA: Well, Ashland is a town of about 6,500 people. Hanover County, which is the county Ashland is in here, is about 92,000 people, described here by several people I have talked to as a nice, suburban bedroom community, and a lot of new homes in the area as well. This is considered one of the northern-most suburbs of the Richmond area.
COSTELLO: A lot of wide open spaces there, too, aren't there?
LAVANDERA: Yeah, this is a -- nice drive in, at least from a Washington, D.C. -- you know, a lot of trees and that sort of a thing. This is a very beautiful countryside as well.
COSTELLO: All right. Thank you, Ed Lavandera. We're going to get an update now on this 37-year-old victim. He is still in the hospital struggling for his life. Let's go to Richmond now and Patty Davis.
One thing I was wondering about. Hospital officials have told you they're not going to hold any sort of briefing. They're going to leave that to police, why?
DAVIS: Good question. We don't know whether police have asked them not to speak, or whether the family has asked them not to speak. But they are leaving all the talk about this 37-year-old victim to police at this point.
Now, one key piece of evidence that police do not have, and that is the bullet. In fact, that is still lodged inside of this man's body. Despite the fact that he underwent surgery, surgeons did not retrieve that bullet.
Now, this man is in critical but guarded condition. He's in the intensive care unit. A hospital spokesman telling us no prognosis at this point.
However, when he arrived at the hospital, he was conscious. He was talking to hospital personnel. He underwent three hours of surgery here at the Medical College of Virginia. That's in Richmond. That's about 15 miles south of that bedroom community that Ed was talking about in Ashland. They had -- they were working very hard to repair a gunshot wound to this man's abdomen.
Now, police, Carol, say that in fact this man is not from this area. He and his wife were traveling through. They had gotten gas, they were gassing up in the area. And they had stopped at Ponderosa for dinner and were planning to move on. Obviously, they were both in the wrong place at the wrong time -- Carol.
COSTELLO: It's such a sad story. He's walking to the car with his wife right beside him. Apparently, she thought it was a car backfire she heard. Her husband turned to her and said, "I've been shot" and then he dropped to his knees. Do we know at all how his wife is doing?
DAVIS: We know that she has been at his side in the intensive care unit, obviously very shaken up, having seeing her husband gunned down before her eyes. As you said, she thought it was a car backfiring. And obviously, she is a witness to this, as her husband is a witness to what happened, and police will definitely want to talk to them when his condition does improve -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, Patty, thank you very much. Let's head back to Atlanta now and Larry. And Larry, as you heard Ed Lavandera, say, that press conference in Ashland, Virginia will probably be pushed up to 11:00 this morning, Eastern time.
SMITH: A little bit later. Carol Costello, thanks so much. And all -- everyone there in the field, not just Carol, but Ed Lavandera, Patty Davis as well. Thanks very much.
CNN, by the way, is following this investigation throughout the morning, and as Carol just mentioned, a news conference planned by the police supposed to be 10:00 in the morning Eastern time, but now has been pushed back an hour or so. But as we can see, it is now daylight and so we have now -- the investigation will now begin in earnest now as they try to find clues and link this shooting to the ones that have happened earlier this month in the Washington, D.C., area, 90 miles north of Ashland, Virginia.
Stay with us. Our coverage of this latest sniper incident continues here on CNN. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 20, 2002 - 08:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY SMITH, CNN ANCHOR: As the sun comes up, the hunt for clues intensifies outside a Ponderosa restaurant in Ashland Virginia, about 90 miles south of Washington, and the question on everyone's mind, has the serial sniper struck again.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: A 37-year-old man was shot in the parking lot that bordered woods there. He just finished dinner with his wife; he was walking to his car, when a single shot ripped through his abdomen.
We have extensive coverage this morning, and we're going to begin with our Carol Costello she's joining us from Montgomery County, Maryland, where command center for sniper investigation is. Good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. And the Montgomery County sniper task force already on the scene in Ashland, Virginia meeting with detectives there, and then I suspect that they would help detectives there search for any sort of evidence the shooter may have left behind.
To bring you up to date, just a little more on what happened last night, we believe the shooting happened between 8:00 and 8:30 eastern time last night. This 37-year-old man was leaving the Ponderosa restaurant with his wife, she thought she heard a car backfire, she didn't realize her husband been shot until he turned around told he he'd been shot, and then he dropped to his knees. He remains in the hospital this morning, and he's in pretty bad shape.
I want to go live now to Ashland, Virginia, where the police presence is picking up. Ed Lavandera is there. Ed, bring us up to date.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, in about two hours, authorities here in Ashland will hold a press briefing, when for the first press briefing of the morning to get us to speed on what's been happening overnight and what's expected throughout the rest of the day. What we're seeing here is we just took a little walk through the -- to the side here, we've seen the cadets starting to walk off that area behind -- that wooded area behind the Ponderosa Steak House restaurant, which you see behind me, and this is similar to what we've seen at many of the other shootings, where cadets walking off the area looking every little square inch of the ground that you see behind me, looking for any kind of clues or evidence that they might be able to find. And of course this scene last night, about 8:00 last night, was extremely chaotic, as traffic was shut down along interstate 95, which is just about a half mile away, from where this restaurant is. And the shooting actually took place behind the restaurant, that's authorities and investigators are focusing on that part of the restaurant this morning, they're -- the initial suspicion or thought is, that perhaps the shots were either fired from behind the -- perhaps like the Burger King restaurants that's just off to the side, or somewhere along that wooded area back there, and that's why they're focusing their attention in that area this morning, and the shooting very eerily similar to some of the other sniper shootings that have already been confirmed to the sniper.
One shot fired, an unsuspecting victim, the 37-year-old man who just leaving the restaurant with this wife, and also the initial search for a white mini van with a ladder rack -- that was a -- the early call that went out last night. They say no particular witness what saw a white mini van here at the scene, but they thought given that, since they're going to treat this as if it were a sniper shooting, that's why they put up that call, and that information out to the public to keep an eye out for that mini van.
The authorities explaining why they're focusing on that back part of that wooded area behind the restaurant last night is the chaos ensues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF FREDERIC PLEASANTS JR., ASHLAND, VA POLICE DEPARTMENT: She stated that her husband, they were walking together, she heard a sound, but didn't think, or didn't relate it to a gunshot. Her husband took about three steps, and then began to collapse in the parking lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: Now again, this shooting hasn't been officially connected to the sniper shooting, but as you can tell here by the police presence and the investigator presence, then the task force presence that is already on the ground here in Ashland, that they are without question treating this as if it were a sniper shooting, until they can prove it otherwise, or prove it to be the case -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And again, Ed, there is an AP wire report out that this time the shooter was about 100 yards away from the man he shot. Now if this is connected to the sniper shooting, this is a lot closer than the sniper has been before, and perhaps it was because there are so many -- there are so many escape routes around that area.
LAVANDERA: There has been -- in the other -- the other similar issue here is that we're so close to Interstate 95. There's also a road that is behind that wooded area, but I'm told that it's quite a distance actually to walk through that, so I don't know how much wait investigators here are putting on the fact that perhaps maybe somebody might have walked through that wooded area, and then retreated back through that wooded area. So, perhaps something that they're looking at this morning as well.
COSTELLO: Understand it, and I meant to say 100 feet, not 100 yards, and previous sniper shootings, the police believe the shooter was 100 -- between 100 and 150 yards away. In this shooting, we're not saying it connected to the sniper officially, but in this shooting they believe the shooter was only 100 feet away.
Thank you very much, Ed Lavandera, for bringing us up to date from Ashland Virginia.
Let's go ahead now to the hospital in Richmond, where this man is struggling to survive. Patty Davis is there -- any new information out.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this man is still fighting for his life, here at the medical -- the medical college of Virginia, a hospital here in Richmond Virginia, that's about 15 miles south of Ashland were he was shot. Coming out of that Ponderosa last night, shot in the abdomen, a very serious wound, he was rushed to the hospital here, he is still in critical, but guarded condition this morning.
Here's what a hospital spokeswoman had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shortly after 8:00 our trauma center was notified, the victim got here around 8:30, he went into surgery around 9:00, surgery lasted about three hours, shortly after midnight, he was out of surgery. He's in the intensive care unit right now, in critical condition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: Now, police do not have critical piece of evidence in this case, and that is the bullet. That is because is because the bullet is still lagged inside this man's body. The surgeons did not try to recover it. We're not told why in fact, they did not try to recover it, but they did not -- there may be some additional surgeries were they'll have an opportunity to go back in and get a piece of that bullet -- that is what likely, if anything will connect this to the other sniper shootings, if this in indeed the work of the sniper.
Now, the Ashland police chief says, that this man was not from this area, in fact, he was passing through town, he was gassing up the car, and then had a little bit to eat at this Ponderosa with his wife when he gunned down -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know, one of the odd things about this, is this man has just been shot in the stomach, yet he was talking to paramedics on the way to the hospital.
DAVIS: That's right, he was conscious, he was we're told, talking to paramedics -- talking to hospital workers, and we are told that it's critical, but guarded, he was very unstable over the night, he is now getting progressively more stable as the time progresses here. So, his condition seemed to stabilize somewhat, but still in very precarious situation in terms of prognosis. They're saying they're not sure whether this man is going to live or not -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And of course, police are not giving out his name, because he is considered a witness in this case.
DAVIS: That's right, he's considered a witness in this case, as is his wife -- they're not going to identify them -- those other two shooting victims that have not died, the woman at the Michael's store in Spotsylvania County, also that 13-year-old boy in Bowie, Maryland -- excuse me -- almost two weeks ago, who was gunned down, is still in the hospital -- children's hospital in Washington D.C. -- his condition much improved, but none of them are being identified. It was dark there in the parking lot though, not sure if anybody saw anything happen in terms of this man or his wife, but they'll certainly want to talk to him and his wife, once his condition improves -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Most definitely. Patty Davis -- thank you, and again the 43-year-old victim who managed to survive the snipers gunshots released from the hospital and that 13-year-old Bowie boy does remain in the hospital this morning.
Let's head back to Atlanta, and Larry.
SMITH: OK, Carol, thanks so much, Ed, and Patty as well. Stay with CNN's latest on this investigation. Later this morning, we'll take you Ashland, Virginia, where police are planning a news conference -- expected at 10:00 a.m. Eastern time for more on this latest shooting and what connections they have, possibly to the shootings that have been going on this month in Washington, D.C. area.
CALLAWAY: We have been inundated with e-mail this morning concerning this topic, and we are taking your question about the story. You can e-mail us at wam@cnn.com, we will read some of your questions and your comments throughout the next couple of hours.
SMITH: Here to give us an insight into the sniper investigation and shooting in Virginia, this latest shooting, CNN's security analyst Kelly McCann is standing by live in Washington. Kelly, good to see you again this morning. You believe -- a, do you believe that this is the work of the same person or persons responsible for the eleven shootings in the D.C. area?
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: It's a leap to know that he's -- that these people, or this person is the same, but suffice to say, it was a stand off attack with a long range weapon. There was no personal contact prior to the incident -- so, you can rule, out, you know, just aggravation or some of the emotional things that we see day to day, and similarly its doubtful that this particular person was targeted, in other words, he wasn't time and place predictable, he probably didn't know that he was going to stop there for gas and to eat some food. So, for someone to pick that place knowing that he would be there at that time is improbable -- if you put those pieces together, it sounds like elements of the same person.
SMITH: As we talked last hour -- these are all at random -- there's really -- other than there's none at 3:00 in the morning, these shootings are all very random, and now this even more random. Is it a stretch to consider though, these attacks to be the actions of terrorists?
MCCANN: It's a stretch only because it's not substantiated. In other words, we know that al Qaeda, you know, has received sniper training, long range precision rifle training, we've seen that in the video tapes that we've taken out of Afghanistan. So, we know that, that capability exists, and not knowing too much more about the ability, the particular ability of this person, other than the hit, the center mass target at 150 yards. Remember that all marines and soldiers qualify to their weapons whether they're (UNINTELLIGIBLE) people, out to 500 yards with open iron sights -- so, as Eric had said earlier, what he's doing is not necessarily, you know, an amazing act of marksmanship.
Putting all of that together, then you would beg the question, then why would they be doing this -- why wouldn't they claim it, why wouldn't they say, "See, we, al Qaeda are so strong, we can reach out and do this," and that would beg the question, "Look here, while we do something else over here." There's over 1,000 people, law enforcement officials involved in this investigation -- you know that some things have gone wanting, because of the focus on this, which might lend us to believe that other things that normally wouldn't pass scrutiny, can.
SMITH: So, you think it could be more along the lines of maybe someone who is maybe just looking for attention in strange way.
MCCANN: You know, I'd have to, I'd have to listen to Casey, I mean shrink wrapping people is not my specialty -- so, I don't know who this person is, the only thing I can say is talk to the tactical part of what he's doing instead of the mechanical function.
Casey seems to believe most strongly that it is an individual person or co-dependent kind of relationship between two people, so I've got to go with that.
SMITH: OK, Kelly McCann, thanks so much for joining us -- more, I know we'll talk to you more this morning once we get more insight in this latest shooting that we do want to again say that it is not -- it has not been certain that it's linked to the other shootings in the Washington D.C. area.
CALLAWAY: You know, we're been asking for e-mail all morning, you certainly have been sending it to us, a lot of opinions on how we're covering this story, and some people obviously saying that we're giving it too much coverage, it is our privilege, and our responsibility to bring this information to you -- some speculation by some of our viewers that we're giving out too much information, but you know, like I said, it is our responsibility to bring as much information, accurate information to you as we can. We're also getting some e-mail about how this is affecting the D.C. area Larry, I wanted to read this, because I know you are going to be interested in this.
"Being the head coach of a Hershey, Pennsylvania travel ice hockey team, I was forced to cancel an away game with the Howard county Maryland team, because my 13 and 14 year old players were frightened by the sniper shootings. These incidents very disturbing -- it's terrible that our youth has to be exposed to this violence, you know."
SMITH: Sure, and Halloween coming up as well, and that's a concern for many parents -- also, and it -- it's now has stretched outside of the D.C. metro area, so a concern as well the psyche of people, not just in that area, but in the neighboring states as well. I mean, this could happen walking out of your work place, or your church even this morning.
CALLAWAY: A lot of people sending us e-mail from Ashland this morning, saying that, "There's not doubt in their minds that is was the sniper," because they say things like that just don't happen in their fine town.
SMITH: Last first shooting since February.
CALLAWAY: Yes, and also, you know, we were talking about the football games, and in this case the hockey, the hockey games, a lot of these high schools are having to have their games in clan descent locations, everyone meeting at the school, and then going. Somehow we find a way to continue what we're doing, our everyday activities, despite what we say to the sniper right.
We're going to continue our coverage everyone, stay with us, back with more in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CALLAWAY: Welcome back, everyone, as we continue rolling coverage this morning, on the search for the sniper in the D.C. area, a 37-year-old man shot last night, about 90 miles outside of Washington in Ashland Virginia, no official word on whether or not this was the work of the sniper, of course ballistics playing a key role in this investigation.
Joining us now, fire arms analyst, retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney. Thanks for being back with us, Eric.
SGT. MAJ. ERIC HANEY (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Sure.
CALLAWAY: You know we've said that the -- we want to remind everyone that they have not been able to retrieve the bullet out of this 37-year-old victim, who is still of course in the hospital in critical condition, he has undergone a lot of surgery -- I mean, we really didn't get to finish our conversation this earlier in the day -- is there anyway, if they're not able to retrieve this bullet, that they will be able to still, somehow, I don't know, maybe perhaps through ultrasound, or any other abilities to get a good look a this -- will they be able to find out where this -- if this is the same bullet, or will they have to retrieve it. HANEY: No, more than likely no, they have to retrieve that bullet and it has to go to the lab and be inspected microscopically.
CALLAWAY: Yes -- some discussion also this morning on the close proximity of this shooting as compared to the other ones; your thoughts on that?
HANEY: No one's really been getting a good handle on this, and a lot of that's just going on erroneous reports. The average shot has been at 75 meters. The longest up to date has been at 100 meters, there was a miss at 100 meters -- so, you really don't know until you get on the site, do a back analysis from the victim, and determine where the shot came from.
CALLAWAY: Some people saying, in the e-mail that we're receiving this morning, how dare you say that this guy, or this sniper is not a good shooter, when it's been one shot, and every victim has been in most -- well, except for two cases for far we've seen, has been fatally shot.
What are your thoughts on that and why do you think that this is not expert marksman.
HANEY: The ranges are very close as I said, average is about 75 meters, and the human torso's a thick target, and we've seen when the range gets a little bit longer than usual, they wind up with an abdominal shot. So, he really doesn't understand the trajectory of his rifle, which thoughtfully, you know, thankfully several people have survived, you know, the bad part is the majority have been killed.
CALLAWAY: I want to read to you this e-mail that we received from Kevin in Johnstown Pennsylvania who's wondering regarding the ballistics evidence, "Have you heard from any of the investigators, or do the experts know that type of ammunition this is, besides the caliber.
HANEY: You can determine that it is -- it's hunting ammunition, it's soft point ammunition. The reason you probably know that is the bullets staying inside the body. Where it military ammunition, it would zip right through, particularly through the abdomen through the torso.
CALLAWAY: We've heard of the things, so called, cop killer bullets, and we also know that they're -- some of the -- one of the bullets was at least fragmented -- so, does that tell us anything?
HANEY: Yes, it tells you at close range that bullet is going to come apart. All of the bullets are severely distorted, but fortunately, with the soft point ammunition, hunting ammunition, the base of the bullet stays in tact, and that's where the markings of the rifle barrel are found, they're on the base of the bullet.
CALLAWAY: You really believe that this fingerprinting -- all weapons -- registered weapons is a good idea. HANEY: Oh, I sure do. I lived in Panama for number of years, that was my last posting in the military -- Panamanian laws, weapons ownership is unrestricted, but every weapon sold goes to the police, you and the police, and you bring in five rounds, they fire the rounds, the keep the rounds and the shell casings, and that weapon ever shows up in a crime the have a starting point, and that's what we would have is a starting point.
CALLAWAY: The chances are, Eric, that we would know the history of this weapon at least, if we'd had that right.
HANEY: That much, and you hear some pundit saying, "Oh, you know, the barrels changed and all" -- well, they do if you shoot 2,000 rounds through them. All barrels eventually were out, but most weapons are never shot that many rounds. So, you're going to have a good starting point, and also with the shell casings, there are distinctive marks that are placed on that.
CALLAWAY: Do you think police are going to be able to learn anything from this shooting that they were not able to learn from the other one?
HANEY: They're putting together a body of evidence, and I think they're going to get a lot closer in how to shut an area down. I've been convinced all along, he's jumping immediately out into interstates -- on most of these shootings, they take place one major intersection away from an interstate. So, if you look at him and say, "Ah, he's moving straight to I-95," but if he's saying "Ah, they think I'm moving to I--95, but I understand the smaller roads and the county roads in the rural city areas and I believe that's what he's using to make their get away.
CALLAWAY: We know that a couple of those roads were shut down last night within about seven minutes, which is fairly fast, but obviously not fast enough if they're fleeing. Do you believe they're fleeing, or do you think they're staying?
HANEY: No, they're fleeing -- they're getting away. They have a sanctuary somewhere, and they go to that place after every shooting, and it's a place where they feel comfortable.
CALLAWAY: I say they, Eric, because I know that you believe that there's more than one shooter involved in this, we'll talk with you more about that later on this morning.
Thank you for coming back with us, and chatting, that's our firearms analyst, retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney. Thanks, Eric.
HANEY: Sure.
SMITH: Good information, we're also going to speak as well in a few moments to our CNN criminologist Casey Jordan, who has more on the theories, lone gunman group of people, who police should be looking at, and also the media coverage, the criticism of that, and she's going talk about that as well. CALLAWAY: We have been getting that in our e-mails, some criticism this morning, not just about us, but just in general...
SMITH: Right.
CALLAWAY: ... how the media's been covering this. And you can send us your thoughts at wam@cnn.com, we are reading them everyone, as you can see in this last interview, and I am asking the questions that you're passing along so send them to us, we will continue right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SMITH: Right now investigators are treating last night's shooting in Virginia as the latest sniper attack, and if that's the case it would be the farthest south the sniper has traveled from the D.C. area, and there are some other differences, for more analysis we are joined now once again by CNN criminologist Casey Jordan.
Casey, good morning to you.
CASEY JORDAN, CNN CRIMINOLOGIST: Good morning.
SMITH: Let's start first with the location, 90 miles south of Washington, on I-95 in Ashland, is this location an effort to possibly weaken the investigation and kind of weaken the intensity, and kind of thin out the resources of the investigation.
JORDAN: I don't even think it's that complicated; I think that there was a great deal of publicity after Monday night's shooting, the police were extremely articulate and verbal about the fact that they were going to use pentagon type technology, they were stepping up their efforts, they had recruited increased manpower, they had plans in place if there was future shootings. And I think that what all of this did, was simply displace the shooter, it certainly didn't discourage him or deter him for them, from continuing their shooting, but it drove them to a new geographic location, where they may have decided they were outside the perimeter of police control.
We saw that the plan was in place, I think it worked tremendously well, but I think that there was a certain element of surprise, I'm not sure anyone predicted that it would have gone so far south so quickly.
SMITH: It was interesting thought because of the snipers detailed knowledge of the road systems (UNINTELLIGIBLE) didn't (ph) know if it's male or female, didn't give a name. The escape routes available could it be someone involved in a delivery truck business or something like that.
JORDAN: That is the way that we would think in this particular assessment, absolutely, especially if you're one to put some credence on the white van theory. It's a very typical delivery vehicle, also a construction vehicle, somebody who might be a tradesman or involved in repairs, maintenance, go to constructions sites -- it also falls in line because of course, people in this sort of profession travel tremendously they know all the back allies, how to get into, for instance, the back of a Home Depot shopping complex, or a construction site that was hidden from the view of the main highway. This is pure conjecture, but that is exactly the sort of thinking that is in foot in trying to assess what kind of person this is.
SMITH: Casey, we in the media have been bashed over our coverage of these incidences since they began earlier this month -- your thoughts on that.
JORDAN: Well, I, in my studies have found occasion to be critical of the media in the past -- so, I'm not it's number one defender but this case, as I've said repeatedly throughout the past week -- this case is something that really has people baffled and scared. And I think that the frustration felt by the police is also felt by the public, but we have a public safety issue here, we are really we're really good at responding to these shootings, but the police have not given us any cause to think that we are getting closer to capturing this shooter. That being the case, I think the media is extremely instrumental in getting information to the pubic, which can help capture this person.
We have found that media has been instrumental in capturing, or at least had a positive influence in perhaps two thirds of a predatory violent criminal offenses -- that they can actually play a very important role in capturing. So, I personally think that as much as people may get tired of hearing about these shooting, I haven't seen exploitation or glorification of the killer certainly, and I think that this may be our best hope of finding this perpetrator.
SMITH: Casey, I've got time for one very quick question -- couple of seconds; is this a thrill seeker driven by the media.
JORDAN: I believe the person is absolutely a thrill killer, but I think the thrill comes from the shoot -- granted this individual, in my assessment, is very insecure and gets a lot of ego pumped up by seeing himself or themselves on television. They want to live in infamy, and media may be a vehicle that helps deliver that -- but frankly, it's the crimes that are going to cause this person to live in infamy, not the media coverage.
SMITH: OK, Casey, on that we're going to have to stop right now, but thanks again for joining us; once again this morning Casey Jordan, our CNN criminologist.
JORDAN: Great to be here.
SMITH: OK, thank you.
CALLAWAY: And we should say that she will be back in just a little while to answer some of your questions that you're sending to us -- so, thank you for that e-mail -- take a break, more in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS ALERT) CALLAWAY: In woods behind a restaurant in Ashland, Virginia, investigators looking for some clues that might tie them -- last night's shooting to the serial sniper. A man was hit in the abdomen with a single bullet as he and his wife left a Ponderosa restaurant. This occurred about 90 miles south of Washington. And for the very latest on this, we're going to head back to Montgomery County, Maryland and Carol Costello -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know, almost five full days had passed without an incident of a shooting, and last night around eight o'clock, between 8:00 and 8:30 Eastern time, maybe the sniper struck again, this time in Ashland, Virginia, as we said, which is about 80 miles south of the D.C. area.
The Montgomery County sniper task force is already there talking to local authorities. Ed Lavandera is there, too. Ed, I have a number of questions for you this morning. Again, bring us up to date with what's going on there now. Cadets are searching for any evidence, aren't they?
LAVANDERA: They're about to get that kind of work started. We just had a quick little briefing with one of the officers here on the ground. They're saying they're waiting for the cloud cover to break up, then they're going to start working into that wooded area that you see behind the Ponderosa restaurant. They had that line of cadets that will basically walk hand in hand basically across this crime scene looking for any kind of clues or evidence that they may be able to come across.
And what is actually happening right now is that authorities here in Ashland are on a teleconference call with all of the authorities and all the investigators working the sniper case. There's a teleconference that is going on between all of these different agencies. That is expected to last perhaps quite a while. The press briefing that was scheduled for 10:00 Eastern time here has now been kind of pushed back in a fluid mode. They say that could happen now anytime between 10 and 11 because of that teleconference call. There's all these authorities that we suspect are comparing notes and sharing information at this point. That is what's happening on the ground here in Ashland -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And I have another question about that, because there are so many jurisdictions involved in this investigation. The FBI is involved, the ATF is involved, the military is involved, Customs Service agents are involved. We believe the U.S. Park Police is involved. The DEA has offered to help, and now there's another local jurisdiction in the mix. How is this all working? Will the local authorities there work with the task force, too?
LAVANDERA: Well, the way I have heard it described over the last couple of weeks is is that I think someone used the analogy of the table here and everyone comes to the table, and is able to compare notes and bring their notes of each particular case.
But as you might -- we can obviously deduce that that table is getting extremely larger, because you have different police departments, different sheriff's deputies, the federal and state authorities are investigating this as well, as well as the military support that has been offered in the search for this sniper as well. So, this is a table that if you can use that analogy, continues to grow and grow, unfortunately, and this is a sign of just how tremendous this case has become and how much influence and manpower it's taking to catch the sniper.
COSTELLO: The other thought that I had is I believe that if this shooting is connected to the sniper in Virginia, that brings the total number of shootings by the sniper in Virginia to five. And at some point -- I know Montgomery County, Maryland, is spearheading the investigation. We always hear from Chief Charles Moose. Might that change?
LAVANDERA: It's hard to say. You know, publicly, everyone here has been saying that these are still cases that need to be investigated on the local level. This shooting here is in Ashland. It needs to be investigated -- authorities here will tell you it probably needs to be investigated by the local authorities, as well as in the different cities that each of these shootings have happened. And for the most part, all of these different agencies say they're working well at this table together and they're using the help of the FBI and the federal agencies. And when question having been brought up as to whether or not the FBI or federal authorities will eventually take over these cases, many of the authorities here are quick to downplay that and just say, hey, for now, everyone is getting along quite well and working on this case as best they can.
COSTELLO: Another thing I wanted to ask you about is Ashland, Virginia, itself. Not many of us across the country have been there. Tell us a little bit about the area.
LAVANDERA: Well, Ashland is a town of about 6,500 people. Hanover County, which is the county Ashland is in here, is about 92,000 people, described here by several people I have talked to as a nice, suburban bedroom community, and a lot of new homes in the area as well. This is considered one of the northern-most suburbs of the Richmond area.
COSTELLO: A lot of wide open spaces there, too, aren't there?
LAVANDERA: Yeah, this is a -- nice drive in, at least from a Washington, D.C. -- you know, a lot of trees and that sort of a thing. This is a very beautiful countryside as well.
COSTELLO: All right. Thank you, Ed Lavandera. We're going to get an update now on this 37-year-old victim. He is still in the hospital struggling for his life. Let's go to Richmond now and Patty Davis.
One thing I was wondering about. Hospital officials have told you they're not going to hold any sort of briefing. They're going to leave that to police, why?
DAVIS: Good question. We don't know whether police have asked them not to speak, or whether the family has asked them not to speak. But they are leaving all the talk about this 37-year-old victim to police at this point.
Now, one key piece of evidence that police do not have, and that is the bullet. In fact, that is still lodged inside of this man's body. Despite the fact that he underwent surgery, surgeons did not retrieve that bullet.
Now, this man is in critical but guarded condition. He's in the intensive care unit. A hospital spokesman telling us no prognosis at this point.
However, when he arrived at the hospital, he was conscious. He was talking to hospital personnel. He underwent three hours of surgery here at the Medical College of Virginia. That's in Richmond. That's about 15 miles south of that bedroom community that Ed was talking about in Ashland. They had -- they were working very hard to repair a gunshot wound to this man's abdomen.
Now, police, Carol, say that in fact this man is not from this area. He and his wife were traveling through. They had gotten gas, they were gassing up in the area. And they had stopped at Ponderosa for dinner and were planning to move on. Obviously, they were both in the wrong place at the wrong time -- Carol.
COSTELLO: It's such a sad story. He's walking to the car with his wife right beside him. Apparently, she thought it was a car backfire she heard. Her husband turned to her and said, "I've been shot" and then he dropped to his knees. Do we know at all how his wife is doing?
DAVIS: We know that she has been at his side in the intensive care unit, obviously very shaken up, having seeing her husband gunned down before her eyes. As you said, she thought it was a car backfiring. And obviously, she is a witness to this, as her husband is a witness to what happened, and police will definitely want to talk to them when his condition does improve -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, Patty, thank you very much. Let's head back to Atlanta now and Larry. And Larry, as you heard Ed Lavandera, say, that press conference in Ashland, Virginia will probably be pushed up to 11:00 this morning, Eastern time.
SMITH: A little bit later. Carol Costello, thanks so much. And all -- everyone there in the field, not just Carol, but Ed Lavandera, Patty Davis as well. Thanks very much.
CNN, by the way, is following this investigation throughout the morning, and as Carol just mentioned, a news conference planned by the police supposed to be 10:00 in the morning Eastern time, but now has been pushed back an hour or so. But as we can see, it is now daylight and so we have now -- the investigation will now begin in earnest now as they try to find clues and link this shooting to the ones that have happened earlier this month in the Washington, D.C., area, 90 miles north of Ashland, Virginia.
Stay with us. Our coverage of this latest sniper incident continues here on CNN. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
