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CNN Sunday Morning

Sniper on the Loose, Part III

Aired October 20, 2002 - 09:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LARRY SMITH, CNN ANCHOR: Let's check in this hour with CNN's Carol Costello. She's at the headquarters of the sniper task force in Montgomery County, Maryland, and rejoins us this morning. Hi, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Larry. No press conferences going on here today in Montgomery County. In fact, we believe that Montgomery County detectives in the sniper task force on a teleconference right now with local authorities in Ashland, Virginia. They're working things out. And they're planning a news conference, we believe, for 11:00 Eastern time this morning in Ashland, Virginia. That's where our Ed Lavandera is now. Bring us up to date on the latest on that, Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, that teleconference you mentioned going on as we speak. And the authorities here in Ashland, the Hanover County authorities and the Ashland Police Department participating in that phone call. Just the latest, authorities have to be brought into this investigation as authorities here and in Montgomery County treating this as if it were a sniper shooting until they can prove either that it is or prove that it isn't.

It's rather cloudy here this morning here in Ashland, slight drizzle falling. In a little a while ago, authorities here were saying they're waiting for the clouds to break for the police cadets that are here to allow them to begin the search of the crime scene, in particular, what they're going to be focusing in on is the area behind the Ponderosa restaurant here. In particular, that wooded area that we've been talking about so much. The initial suspicion here is that the gunshot that was fired last night at a 37-year-old victim who was walking out of the restaurant with his wife last night about 8:00, that perhaps the shot came from somewhere back there.

And of course, one shot was fired, and whenever we hear that these days, we start initially to think that this is somehow possibly connected to the sniper shootings. The other similarities between this shooting and the sniper shootings as well, that it has happened very close to I-95. Major thoroughfare as well as some other major thoroughfares around this area as well, providing quick escape routes, if you will, for whoever fired those shots last night. And even though there was a huge swarm of police that descended on this area, shutting down roadways as we have seen happen after these shootings have taken place, still no sign that the shooter in this case, or if it does turn out to be the sniper, that person was definitely not caught last night. Now, as you might imagine, as that 37-year-old man walked out of the restaurant with his wife, they're not even from Virginia. They just happened to be driving through. Officers describing last night what it was like for that man's wife as those shots were being fired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF FREDERIC PLEASANTS JR., ASHLAND, VA POLICE: She stated that her husband, they were walking together. She heard a sound, but didn't think or didn't relate it to a gunshot. Her husband took about three steps and then began to collapse in the parking lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Now, there are about 100 -- almost 150 officers here in Hanover County, and Ashland Police Department working this area. Not just only the area that you see behind me, but we're told that they're working a radius around this area, trying to find clues or evidence wherever it might come up at this point.

Another clear sign that they are treating this shooting as if it were the work of the sniper. And press briefing scheduled to begin here at 10:00. Might happen a little bit later, depending upon when the authorities wrap up that teleconference call they're on, we presume, as we speak -- Carol.

COSTELLO: That's right, and I had a few questions about the wooded area. Now, the shooting itself took place behind that Ponderosa restaurant that we're seeing right now. There is a wooded area about 100 feet away. And that's where police believe the shooter was shooting from in this case. Is that patch of woods densely wooded? Is it sparse? What's it like?

LAVANDERA: The way it's been described to me is that it is very difficult to move through. A ways behind that wooded area, apparently there is some sort of roadway back there, but from what authorities have told me on the ground, that it's a very difficult area to get into. So one of the other areas we're looking off to as well is to the side, that perhaps maybe from -- you might see the Burger King restaurant just beyond this field of photographers that have gathered here along the roadway, that perhaps one of the areas they might also be looking at as well.

So several different scenarios and possibilities that they're working through. And that is exactly just part of what happens at this point of the investigation as all the officers and the field cadets start walking hand in hand across the parking lot.

COSTELLO: Ed, another question for you. We heard that some witnesses saw a white van with a ladder on top leaving the scene. Are those credible accounts, and how many witnesses were there?

LAVANDERA: We were speaking a little while ago with our CNN correspondent Gary Tuchman, who was here throughout most of the evening covering the initial scenario that was playing out here last night. And he was telling me that part of what they did last night was that they just went ahead and put out that call, to be on the lookout for a white van and a ladder rack. I think that all goes back to the way they're handling all these cases. They put in the sniper response plan to shut down the roadways and block off the exits in hopes that they might somehow be able to trap and corner the sniper whenever he attacks.

So part of the talk here on the ground was that perhaps that was part of that plan as well, to just better safe than sorry, just to go ahead and put out that call for that white van with that ladder rack and make sure people are aware of that.

COSTELLO: Thank you, Ed Lavandera. We will get back to you in a little bit. We want to head to Richmond now, to the hospital where this 37-year-old-year-old man is struggling for his life. Patty Davis is there. Any more information?

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we know right now is that this man, the victim is in critical but guarded condition here at the Medical College of Virginia in Richmond, which is about 15 miles south of Ashland where he was gunned down. Now, a hospital spokesman saying that this man's wounds are so severe that doctors do not know if he'll survive or not. His wife was at his side in intensive care most of the night. The victim hit by a single gunshot wound to the abdomen. And here's what a hospital spokesman had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE KUTTENKULER, HOSPITAL SPOKESMAN: He's a 37-year-old male, came here, he was conscious when he arrived, and was immediately taken to the operating room. He was in the OR for about three hours. And he got out shortly after midnight and he's in critical condition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DAVIS: Surgeons did not retrieve a bullet from that victim. It is still lodged in his body. It's not known whether they will attempt, if he has any more surgeries, to go ahead and get that bullet. But certainly a key piece of evidence that police will want to look at as they try to find out whether this shooting is connected to the other sniper shootings or not -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Patty, is the hospital in a lockdown situation at all, because this man is a witness to the shooting, as is his wife, who is inside by his side?

DAVIS: We are told not. The doors are locked in the front. There was extra security added here, but normally, overnight, when we were here monitoring the situation, the hospital was not in any other situation than it normally is, just some extra security.

COSTELLO: All right. Thank you very much, Patty Davis reporting from Richmond, Virginia this morning. We'll head back to the Atlanta studios, and Larry, as you heard, that press conference in Ashland, Virginia probably won't take place until 11:00, but of course, CNN will be keeping an eye on things there. SMITH: OK, Carol, everyone else, thanks so much. By the way, when that does happen, we'll carry it live here on CNN, a little later this morning, as Carol just mentioned, probably not until 11:00. Police will update their investigation into the shooting in Virginia. Stay with us, again, live coverage of that expected sometime around 11:00 Eastern time -- Catherine?

CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Every bullet from the confirmed sniper attacks has been the same caliber and ballistics tests show that it came from the same weapons, but police, however, do not have the bullet from last night's victim. It's still lodged in the victim's body. Joining me this morning to talk more about the firearms used in these attacks and the skill of the shooter in this case, CNN firearms analyst, retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney. Thanks, Eric, for being with us.

ERIC HANEY, CNN FIREARMS ANALYST: Sure.

CALLAWAY: Lots to talk about this morning. First, we do know that they'll be able to identify this bullet, eventually, when it's removed from the victim. And is it going to tell us anything new that we don't already know, other than to connect it to the other shootings?

HANEY: No, if it's the same bullet from the same rifle, that's exactly what it tells us, and it helps build the body of evidence on how these people are operating and what they're doing. It just confirms things for the police and it gives them a little bit more. They can analyze things a little bit in greater depth.

CALLAWAY: Some of things that we're hearing out of the shooting last night, and again, it's not confirmed that it is from the same weapon, was just the sound of this going off.

HANEY: Right. The wife, I understand, reported that she heard a sound as her husband was shot, but she didn't recognize it as a gunshot.

CALLAWAY: Kind of like a car backfiring, right?

HANEY: Right. And if, indeed, it was fired from within a vehicle, it's a subdued sound. The vehicle acts as a sound suppressor, a silencer, and instead of that boom, rolling rifle shot, actually what you're going to nearby is a thump.

CALLAWAY: Because it's shot from inside.

HANEY: Because it's inside. And when someone hears that thump, they don't recognize it is as a gunshot.

CALLAWAY: Neither one of us have been to that location, so it would be hard to guess how anyone would get a vehicle up in that wooded area.

HANEY: We don't know wooded area yet, either, see. Most of these have taken place from the back of a parking lot or across another parking lot from a dark spot, an unlighted spot. The only place it was wooded and where they left the vehicle was when the little boy was shot at school.

CALLAWAY: Right. These police and officials up there in that area worked so quickly, and even though this was some 90 miles from other shootings, they were able to shut down this area. Does that lead you to believe that there is more than one person involved in this?

HANEY: Well, I've been convinced of that almost all along. When I first heard of it, I said two, just because that's the way snipers work and I'm just convinced these are wannabe snipers. Then I thought about it, I said, it's so doggone hard to keep a secret with one person and when two are involved, your problems go up exponentially. But within a day of that, I discounted that. I'm positive in my mind it's two people working together.

CALLAWAY: And how are they getting away so quickly?

HANEY: They make meticulous reconnaissance of where they're going to take the shot. It's the most important thing to them is the sighting of where they shoot from and the ability to rapidly get away, and in every instance that I have looked at, they have a route that they can get on a small feeder road and get immediately out of the area before they run into the first stop light that will bring them to a halt. And they're doing right hand turns in every instance I've seen when they pull into traffic.

CALLAWAY: I can't imagine any individual being calm enough to leave a situation like that and think completely clearly.

HANEY: Well, but if the second partner is the one sitting under the wheel pulling security, and he doesn't have the adrenaline rush of shooting.

CALLAWAY: We've received, as we've been saying all morning, a lot of e-mail from people saying the media is giving this too much coverage. However, the people that are sending us e-mail who say we're not doing enough are, of course, the people who live in this region where they're rightly so terrified. What kind of role if anything, is the media playing in this, and do you think it's having any affect at all on the investigation?

HANEY: It's going to help the investigation. Remember, we don't have our duties as citizens for self-protection. We hired the police to do the job for us, normally. This is going to be solved by something that citizenry sees. In the military, we call that a force multiplier. There are millions of eyes out there looking, but there is a very limited number of police having to respond and work on this thing, so pay attention. And I would tell the citizens, pay attention.

CALLAWAY: Well, you know what, if I'm living there, I want to know what am I supposed to be looking for.

HANEY: OK. This is what I look for. When I step into a parking lot in the strip mall, look right down the lane that you drive in. They're sitting up at the back of parking lots or across from parking lots, but they shoot down the lane that you drive in. And remember, you drive into that lane, the parking spot to the left and right, and then you walk down the lane. So that's their field of fire, as we call it in the military.

Just look at the back of the parking lot. You know, if I saw a white van with its rear doors facing me, I'd get out of the line.

CALLAWAY: Or any van. We don't know if it's a white van.

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAWAY: There's thousands of those out there.

HANEY: And don't focus on white vans. Just pay attention. If you hear something that sounds odd, look at the back of a parking lot. Just look there immediately. Maybe you'll see something.

CALLAWAY: It's a shame we have to think this way. Eric, thank you for being with us, I know you're going to be with us throughout the day, and thank you for your insight. Eric Haney.

And for an in-depth look at the hunt for the D.C. area sniper, you can turn to cnn.com, in addition to the coverage on the main page of the site, CNN.com now has a special report that's titled "Sniper Attacks: A Trail of Terror." Included in the special are some interactive maps for you, as you can see, we have some timelines, we have profiles of some of the victims. We also have some tips for dealing with all the anxiety in this. A fact sheet there for you. Much more. Take a look at that, at cnn.com.

SMITH: Good information there about what to do in those situations as well throughout -- and public trying to protect itself. Well, coming up in a half hour, we'll take comments and try to answer your questions about these sniper shootings. Our reporters are standing by. Send your e-mails now, wam@cnn.com.

CALLAWAY: Actually, we have enough. We have thousands of e- mails this morning. We're also going to be taking your phone calls so you can be calling us. We're going to have security analyst Kelly McCann with us, many other people who are covering this for CNN on stand-by to answer some of you questions. So stay with us, everyone. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMITH: Nine are dead, two are wounded, one of those numbers will go up if authorities determine that this latest shooting in Ashland, Virginia, last night is connected to the D.C. sniper. Let's now go back to Washington, a place that's not feeling very safe or secure these days. CNN security analyst Kelly McCann live in our Washington bureau. Kelly, thanks for joining us once again this morning.

KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Larry. SMITH: Very quickly, let's start with all the speculation being talked about the snipers and the things, who is this person, is there more than one person. Your thoughts on this?

MCCANN: Well, everyone has a desire to know. I mean, everybody right now wants to know something, but no matter how hard you stamp your foot, you know, some things are unknowable for the moment. And I think that we're all basically products of our own experiences, et cetera. But if we stick to the facts, and I think there's some very legitimate things that have been said, but sticking to the facts, at some point, we've all got to say, jeez, we just don't know that. And if you can't tie a substantial link to something, then it's certainly something to think on, and people should do that. They should think about all of these different options, but center on the facts.

SMITH: You have mentioned as well, advice, so many things coming up in terms of the Halloween is coming up, football games, outdoor activities. We want to live our lives. Advice to people who are concerned how they can protect themselves, not just in going out and getting gas or going to the grocery store, but sending their children out to collect Halloween candy next week.

MCCANN: Well, for the adults, it sounds like an out-of-the-box thought, but the first thing I'd do is just turn to history. I mean, we've overcome great adversity in history. You can find individual accounts of people personally overcoming fear, overcoming burdensome feelings, et cetera. So I think we've got to remember who we are. We're Americans, and one person simply won't be allowed to shut things down.

Then secondly, err on the side of safety, and at least incorporate common sense security kinds of steps into your day. A lot of people go through the normal life without an event like this never even considering personal security. So like Eric just said, you know, as you walk down that avenue of fire, if you will, you might not want to walk down the center. You might want to move and mask yourself out of that line of sight. You may want to take that loop around the parking lot, and if you see a vehicle just sitting there where there are two men or one man just sitting there with no apparent reason for just sitting in a place, you might want to question why and choose not to stop and get out of a vehicle.

So I mean, those kinds of things, you know, acting as a force multiplier, where we are, in fact, the force multipliers for the police agencies. You know, one group of men who have not been spoken about a lot, Larry, are the police. We've spoken about the criminal, we've spoken about the victim. But the police have put just incredible hours into this. A lot of them are still on scene this morning down in Richmond and never did go anywhere. They've been around the clock. So I think even though we're not getting the result a lot of people really want, we still have to remember it's not because they don't desire it that way.

SMITH: And what are you hearing from them? Your friends in the law enforcement field and things that they are talking about and their frustration as this continues? MCCANN: You hit the nail on the head, frustration. To a man, I mean, these are professional men. Don't forget that their families also live in these communities. Their fathers, their mothers, their children go to the same schools. So they have a personal interest in the public safety as well. And they are frustrated, because when you move many organizations, it's like moving a battleship at sea. It takes miles. You can't just stop and make a left turn. So when they move a task force, although individual elements can move quickly, it's hard to just do a 90-degree turn and change focus. And there are inter-agency kind of discussions and sharing of information. There are lead agencies, there are subordinate agencies.

So they've got their hands full, but each one of them, each one of those professional men and women want to succeed at this.

SMITH: OK. Kelly McCann, thanks so much. I want to stop there. I know you're back with us here at the bottom half of the hour to talk more about these things. Thanks for your comments for now.

MCCANN: Thanks, Larry.

SMITH: OK. CNN security analyst Kelly McCann. Sniper on the loose. Our live coverage continues. We're back with more after a break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

SMITH: While we follow the latest on the sniper shootings, it is time to take questions and your questions on the ongoing search and investigation. You can call in with your inquiries now or your queries about the serial sniper. And that phone number once again, toll-free, doesn't cost you anything, 1-800-807-2620.

CALLAWAY: There is not much that our panel cannot answer this morning. We have CNN security analyst Kelly McCann, joining us from Washington, and we have criminologist, CNN criminologist Casey Jordan, who is in New York, and Ed Lavandera is in Ashland, Virginia. We don't have Ed.

Well, this is retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney. He's joining us from Atlanta. Thank you all for being with us. Ed is actually at the site of the last shooting. We're not -- no official word yet. There's Ed -- on whether or not this is another victim from the sniper, but certainly a lot of similarities. Ed's been covering that for us all night long.

We're going to begin with an e-mail. And I have to say this again, I have never seen this many e-mail coming in on one particular topic. Just hundreds and hundreds of them. And it was....

SMITH: They keep pouring in.

CALLAWAY: Right. We tried to pick some e-mail that was representative of many that we've received. We're going to start with this one from Larry. Kelly, I'm going to send this one to you. "As I was watching your coverage last night, I thought if I were a sniper, I'd have my partner on the cell phone watching CNN as I was leaving my last shot telling me which roads are being shut down by the police and where." You know, how -- is that a real possibility that that could be happening?

MCCANN: Absolutely. And, I mean, the same thought ran through everybody's mind. There's always the rush to get information out. And it was reported where there were road blocks observed being put up. And, of course that would allow clever people to vector to a new direction. So sometimes when you hear things, you wince and you say, maybe we shouldn't have said just that thing. However, other people who are in a long line of traffic and don't know what's going on need to know, or they want to know. So it's always a fine balancing act that the media has to deal with every day.

SMITH: Our next e-mail is one I want to send out to Casey Jordan, our CNN criminologist, because the person, well, refers to Casey specifically. "Why does every reporter on every station, not just Casey the criminologist, presume that the killer or killers are men? I have yet to hear any reporter, or anchor, or expert on any news reports or stations open their presumptions to the female sex. Do they all believe that women are incapable of such act?" Casey.

CASEY JORDAN, CNN CRIMINOLOGIST: Oh, women are not incapable of anything by any means, but the entire point of what the criminologists do -- we don't pretend this is science -- it is the art of educated guessing, based on previous cases. And based on previous cases, off the top of my head, I can think of one particular female sniper in a New Jersey shopping mall, maybe 10 years ago. I know there are smattering of others, but -- and I don't have the exact statistics in front of me -- but I'd be surprised if we had more than a 1 or 2 percent incident of women perpetrating sniper attacks. It's not impossible. It's so improbable that for the sake of simplicity, I think everyone's decided to call the sniper a he.

CALLAWAY: Let's go ahead and take a phone call now. Aisha from Virginia, you're on the line. Do you have a question?

AISHA: Yes, I have a question, with all of the roadblocks that they're doing, are they keeping track of all the license plate numbers of all the cars and the trucks and all that they're stopping to see if there are any trucks that are in the same area around the same time?

CALLAWAY: Ed, let's go to you. You're there on the scene. Is there any discussion from the police about taking license plate numbers? And I know we saw some video of people actually being handcuffed and questioned last night, but of course, there were no arrests in that case. What's been going on there?

LAVANDERA: Well, we've seen that happen several times whenever these shooting attacks occur. I've actually seen officers pulling each and every car over, taking down license plate information and driver's license information. And we can only presume that it's a huge catalog of information that they'd have to start collecting on all of this, but perhaps within that, they may maybe find similar license plates, similar driver's licenses at some of these different shootings, and maybe that might peak their interest on something or someone. It's hard to say, and there are many different ways, I think, that they can probably use that information to their advantage.

SMITH: OK, Ed, let's step aside for one moment. Let's bring Patty Davis in. She's at the hospital in Richmond, Virginia, with an update on this latest victim -- Patty.

DAVIS: That's right. We just got an update from the hospital spokeswoman here at the Medical College of Virginia in Richmond. This 37-year-old victim remains in critical but guarded condition. We're told he is in a life-threatening state.

Now, his condition, we're told, overnight did not worsen. Certainly, good news for doctors as they seek to repair his wounds. We're also told that they may have to go in today and do additional surgery. That may give doctors an opportunity to retrieve the bullet. Police say that they were not able to retrieve a bullet or did not choose to retrieve a bullet in the first surgery. That is a critical piece of evidence that the police will be looking for to try to link this, if it is at all linked, to the other sniper cases in the Washington, D.C. and Virginia and Maryland areas.

So hospital staff saying that the victim's wife extremely brave, she's by his side here in the intensive care unit of the hospital as he's dealing, trying to recover from that wound to the abdomen that he got shot from some distance in that Ponderosa parking lot yesterday. Hanover County Sheriff's Department deputies also here at the hospital, we're told, not specifically providing extra protection, but they're here because they want to relay information to the police who are working this case. Back to you.

SMITH: OK, Patty Davis, thanks so much. It's now been almost nine hours since he was released from the emergency room, from the operating room and, of course, we continue to watch -- monitor his condition.

Stay with us here. More with our roundtable, more calls from you and e-mails as well after a quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CALLAWAY: Welcome back, everyone. We're continuing to take your phone calls this morning, and again we're joined by CNN security analyst Kelly McCann, CNN criminologist Casey Jordan and CNN's Ed Lavandera, also CNN's firearms analyst and retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney. Thank you all for being, again, with us, lots of e-mails and lots of phone calls.

And Eric, actually, I want to get to you first, because we just got an e-mail, that's actually been positive about coverage this morning. And that had to do with an interview I did with you just a little while ago on what people should keep in mind, actually, when they are traveling about in this area. Some things to do to keep them safe. And I know that's actually your background. You actually teach corporate executives who are abroad on how to stay safe.

HANEY: Well, that's true. When I provide protection for executives and diplomats in overseas countries where some of these areas are pretty doggone dangerous and some of them are targeted for death, the first thing you teach the person is called situational awareness, and basically it's just pay attention to your surroundings, pay attention to your immediate surroundings and your immediate view out to the limits of a danger area.

CALLAWAY: This guy, who is from Texas, Joe Beavers, said that it was useful information and of course would like more. It's pathetic that people living in this region have to think this way, but it's a reality, nonetheless.

HANEY: True.

CALLAWAY: What are some of the things they should keep in mind?

HANEY: Well, first thing, walk with a purpose, keep your head and your eyes up. Don't look at the ground. You're not going to trip and fall over a crack in the cement. Scan about you, both close to see that there's no one right on top of you to cause you harm. This is just general anti-criminal things, and then for the people in the Virginia, Northern Virginia, D.C. area, look around at the back of parking lots. The shooter is setting up mostly at the back of parking lots or just off the side of those. So just scan out in that direction. Move straight to your car, have your keys in your hand, get directly in the car, crank up and leave.

CALLAWAY: And don't walk down the middle of the parking lot, as you said earlier.

HANEY: Sure.

SMITH: OK. Let's go to the phone calls now. One from Mike in Maryland. Hi, Mike.

MIKE: Yeah, hi, this is for the security analyst.

SMITH: Kelly McCann.

MIKE: Yes. I was wondering, has the government considered possibly that this might be a draw-away tactic to draw away our forces, our security forces around that area for some type of other terrorist event? And is our homeland security still strong and intact?

MCCANN: It's a good question, Mike. We've talked about that a little bit. And, of course, in the scenarios that you can develop and argue convincingly, one that you can argue convincingly is if this is al Qaeda related or terrorist related, to what end? And that is exactly the scenario you just brought up, which is to overtax existing municipalities, state assets and federal assets while another event is either prepared for or they move into the execution phase. Gets even more troubling when you think about Mr. Tenet's comments just recently, et cetera.

So there are people looking at that. But again, without substantiation, without being able to, use the cliche, connect those dots, we can't necessarily overengage with that thought.

CALLAWAY: Let's go to Susan, in California, who is on the line. Good morning, Susan.

SUSAN: Good morning. I was just wondering, being on the opposite coast here, I tune into you constantly. I was wondering, does this sniper seem to be moving more south now?

CALLAWAY: Well, you know, let's go to Ed Lavandera there on the scene. Ed, is there a discussion among the officials there, are they concerned that this, indeed, since we've seen this now, apparently, although official word, we should say, that this one 90 miles south of Washington, D.C. has not been confirmed that it came from the same weapon, but Ed, is there concern there we see this moving south now, at least the investigation, in preventative measures?

LAVANDERA: I'm glad the caller brought that point up today, because I was just speaking here with several of our colleagues, and that's the kind of the line of questioning for us we were going to pursue a little bit at this morning's press conference, that if indeed there is -- I think that's five shootings now in Virginia that have taken place, and the last several shootings have kind of, as the caller pointed out, sort of moved a little bit southward. We're going to start pursuing that line of questioning and try to figure out if it's something authorities are starting to think about.

Remember, that first cluster of shootings took place in Maryland, and everything since then has kind of spread out a little bit. And I wonder, quite frankly, as well what authorities make of that.

SMITH: Question I have for you, Ed, or Eric, if you want to come in with this as well, the chances of maybe more than one car being used. We've talked about, it's a white van. It may not be a white van. Maybe this was a different kind of car. What are the chances of maybe more than one vehicle being used?

CALLAWAY: Yeah, let's go to the e-mail that we've got concerning that. This is from Louis. This is e-mail number two, I believe. Is it possible -- we're scanning for that because we're driving our producer crazy, because she's having to find all this e-mail. "Is it possible that the van that cannot be found has been placed into a larger truck and then fleeing?" First of all, we don't know for sure that it was a van. But I guess they're saying -- and we've received a number of e-mails suggesting this, that perhaps the vehicle is being stuck into a truck, perhaps, and then able to escape that way.

You know, Eric, what do you think? What are the possibilities of something like that happening?

HANEY: About zero. About zero. That's movie stuff. These people are moving away from the site of the shooting rapidly, they know exactly where they're going. If you're going to try some little stunt like that, sounds good in Hollywood, how long is that going to take you? How many people are you going to have to have handling ramps and get you inside? What if you miss the blasted ramp and you crash into the back of your truck?

No, what they're doing is simple. It's simplicity. It's well- thought-out, but simple works.

CALLAWAY: And Kelly, I know you want to weigh in on that too. Certainly, simple has to be the way to be successful in these type of horrible crimes?

MCCANN: I think Eric hit the nail on the head, which is about zero. I mean, for all the reasons, logistically supporting that, who's got the CDL license, the commercial driver's license to have a truck that big, where do you do that and not be seen? So there are all kinds of things you can consider. How many of them are probable are quite few.

SMITH: Let's bring Casey Jordan back. We haven't heard from her in a few minutes. Casey, our CNN criminologist, one e-mail from North Carolina asking, could this probably be a policeman involved in this somehow, involved in the actual shootings?

JORDAN: Well, since I just got lectured on the idea that it could be a female, let's use the word police officer.

SMITH: There you go. Fair enough.

JORDAN: But the short answer to that is no. I don't see any evidence to indicate that this is the work of a current working military person or police officer. We certainly have, in our research, evidence that serial killers do have a fascination with all things military and law enforcement. Many of them impersonate police officers. Many of them -- I should say some of them have served as auxiliary officers, security officers. They've got that thing where they want to carry a badge and feel important sometimes, but this is how we categorize them as wannabes.

There is a lot that might suggest that in this particular case, but there is so much we don't know that we don't want to jump to that conclusion at this juncture.

CALLAWAY: Again, we're trying to bring to you some of the e-mail that represents other e-mail that we've received, because we have received just hundreds of them. I want to go to this one from Richmond, Indiana. "I understand that it is your privilege and right to report everything possible on the sniper case, but when you tell the country and the world that the bullets are distinctive to the shotgun barrel, how do you not know that that person or persons involved are not watching this program? And if they are, all that they have to do is change the gun that they're using. I'm just saying, some things should be left out."

You know, I know you've said that earlier, Kelly, that you agreed. What about you, Eric? Is there too much information out there?

HANEY: No, there's not. There's enough information. He knows there are distinctive markings on the bullets. That's no secret to this person. He really doesn't care, because there's nothing to link him back until they grab him and the weapon.

CALLAWAY: You want to weigh in on that, Kelly?

MCCANN: Just that substantive things obviously are not going to be released. For instance, one thing that was contentious was, you know, if the military is supporting with surveillance or reconnaissance assets, what's the coverage area? Well, obviously, no one is going to define that area. As far as, you know, how tooling marks interact with -- through the lens and grooves on a round, absolutely. I mean, you know, there are so many other signatures about the way these incidents are being undertaken, there's going to be similarities. The public needs to know things so they can, you know, engage in public safety. So we've got to walk that line.

SMITH: Let's get to some final thoughts from our panel here. Let's start first in New York. CNN criminologist Casey Jordan, your thoughts?

JORDAN: Well, I think the one thing that we have to admit in this particular case is this killer, reprehensible as this is, is not an idiot, and I really don't think that this person is learning anything from the media that he or they don't already know. They've shot 11, possibly 12 people now and gotten away. They've done this because they're using a tremendous amount of calculating, planning, rational thought, and they may be watching the media to get a sense of satisfaction over the success of what they've done.

But whether the media covers that or not, they're going to feel a sense of satisfaction. So I don't think the media's been out of line at all. Granted, the public does not need to know everything. I'm assuming there's a lot we don't know.

CALLAWAY: CNN's Ed Lavandera in Ashland, Virginia, site of the shooting last night, which has not officially been connected to the sniper. What's the last word from there, Ed?

LAVANDERA: My thoughts here, you can't help but think about just all the vast number of investigators that have been working this case for the last two weeks. You know, unfortunately, as each one of these shootings continues to happen, that table of investigators just continues to grow, and you know, the thoughts of what these investigators must be going through behind the scenes, and we talked about a lot of the things we don't know. You can kind of imagine, these guys have been working around the clock, trying to figure out where this guy might be, where he might attack next. And I think the enormous weight of that kind of pressure can be very daunting for a lot of these folks.

SMITH: And that takes us to Kelly McCann, our senior security analyst in Washington -- Kelly. MCCANN: Well, I'd say is that although these are unfortunate circumstances, everybody needs to remember they are still exponentially and much more significantly at risk by normal everyday things we encounter, automobile accidents, disease, et cetera. It's hard not to get overtaken and overwhelmed when the media coverage is as it is. But we've got to remember, you do have a life. It's the only one you get, so you should live it well.

CALLAWAY: And Eric Haney, you have the final word, our CNN firearms analyst.

HANEY: Well, I think this whole thing is going to slow down, and it has slowed down significantly. We had that first cluster of shootings, just a whole flurry of them. And people were concerned he's taking the weekends off. He wasn't taking the weekends off. They were preparing for the next portion of the operation, their mission, as they think of it.

Then we had this long hiatus here recently. They were a little bit frightened and lost some of their confidence after the shooting at the Home Depot. Now things get a little bit harder to plan the next operations. And if we're just vigilant and everyone pays attention in that area, if you see something that just seems odd to you, call the police. If you know of a flake that you're just suspicious of, to have this lifestyle, call the police. Just -- that's how we're going to find him, is by the public being out there and being vigilant, and eventually we're going to get these people.

CALLAWAY: I don't think anybody is going to argue with that. And good police work by all that have been working on this. Eric Haney here in Atlanta, thank you very much, our firearms analyst. Ed Lavandera there on the scene in Ashland, criminologist Casey Jordan and security analyst Kelly McCann, thank you all. I wish we could get to all of the e-mail, but indeed we did get to those that were representative of a great number that we received this morning. Thank you so much for sending those to us this morning, and for your phone calls.

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Aired October 20, 2002 - 09:02   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY SMITH, CNN ANCHOR: Let's check in this hour with CNN's Carol Costello. She's at the headquarters of the sniper task force in Montgomery County, Maryland, and rejoins us this morning. Hi, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Larry. No press conferences going on here today in Montgomery County. In fact, we believe that Montgomery County detectives in the sniper task force on a teleconference right now with local authorities in Ashland, Virginia. They're working things out. And they're planning a news conference, we believe, for 11:00 Eastern time this morning in Ashland, Virginia. That's where our Ed Lavandera is now. Bring us up to date on the latest on that, Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, that teleconference you mentioned going on as we speak. And the authorities here in Ashland, the Hanover County authorities and the Ashland Police Department participating in that phone call. Just the latest, authorities have to be brought into this investigation as authorities here and in Montgomery County treating this as if it were a sniper shooting until they can prove either that it is or prove that it isn't.

It's rather cloudy here this morning here in Ashland, slight drizzle falling. In a little a while ago, authorities here were saying they're waiting for the clouds to break for the police cadets that are here to allow them to begin the search of the crime scene, in particular, what they're going to be focusing in on is the area behind the Ponderosa restaurant here. In particular, that wooded area that we've been talking about so much. The initial suspicion here is that the gunshot that was fired last night at a 37-year-old victim who was walking out of the restaurant with his wife last night about 8:00, that perhaps the shot came from somewhere back there.

And of course, one shot was fired, and whenever we hear that these days, we start initially to think that this is somehow possibly connected to the sniper shootings. The other similarities between this shooting and the sniper shootings as well, that it has happened very close to I-95. Major thoroughfare as well as some other major thoroughfares around this area as well, providing quick escape routes, if you will, for whoever fired those shots last night. And even though there was a huge swarm of police that descended on this area, shutting down roadways as we have seen happen after these shootings have taken place, still no sign that the shooter in this case, or if it does turn out to be the sniper, that person was definitely not caught last night. Now, as you might imagine, as that 37-year-old man walked out of the restaurant with his wife, they're not even from Virginia. They just happened to be driving through. Officers describing last night what it was like for that man's wife as those shots were being fired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF FREDERIC PLEASANTS JR., ASHLAND, VA POLICE: She stated that her husband, they were walking together. She heard a sound, but didn't think or didn't relate it to a gunshot. Her husband took about three steps and then began to collapse in the parking lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Now, there are about 100 -- almost 150 officers here in Hanover County, and Ashland Police Department working this area. Not just only the area that you see behind me, but we're told that they're working a radius around this area, trying to find clues or evidence wherever it might come up at this point.

Another clear sign that they are treating this shooting as if it were the work of the sniper. And press briefing scheduled to begin here at 10:00. Might happen a little bit later, depending upon when the authorities wrap up that teleconference call they're on, we presume, as we speak -- Carol.

COSTELLO: That's right, and I had a few questions about the wooded area. Now, the shooting itself took place behind that Ponderosa restaurant that we're seeing right now. There is a wooded area about 100 feet away. And that's where police believe the shooter was shooting from in this case. Is that patch of woods densely wooded? Is it sparse? What's it like?

LAVANDERA: The way it's been described to me is that it is very difficult to move through. A ways behind that wooded area, apparently there is some sort of roadway back there, but from what authorities have told me on the ground, that it's a very difficult area to get into. So one of the other areas we're looking off to as well is to the side, that perhaps maybe from -- you might see the Burger King restaurant just beyond this field of photographers that have gathered here along the roadway, that perhaps one of the areas they might also be looking at as well.

So several different scenarios and possibilities that they're working through. And that is exactly just part of what happens at this point of the investigation as all the officers and the field cadets start walking hand in hand across the parking lot.

COSTELLO: Ed, another question for you. We heard that some witnesses saw a white van with a ladder on top leaving the scene. Are those credible accounts, and how many witnesses were there?

LAVANDERA: We were speaking a little while ago with our CNN correspondent Gary Tuchman, who was here throughout most of the evening covering the initial scenario that was playing out here last night. And he was telling me that part of what they did last night was that they just went ahead and put out that call, to be on the lookout for a white van and a ladder rack. I think that all goes back to the way they're handling all these cases. They put in the sniper response plan to shut down the roadways and block off the exits in hopes that they might somehow be able to trap and corner the sniper whenever he attacks.

So part of the talk here on the ground was that perhaps that was part of that plan as well, to just better safe than sorry, just to go ahead and put out that call for that white van with that ladder rack and make sure people are aware of that.

COSTELLO: Thank you, Ed Lavandera. We will get back to you in a little bit. We want to head to Richmond now, to the hospital where this 37-year-old-year-old man is struggling for his life. Patty Davis is there. Any more information?

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we know right now is that this man, the victim is in critical but guarded condition here at the Medical College of Virginia in Richmond, which is about 15 miles south of Ashland where he was gunned down. Now, a hospital spokesman saying that this man's wounds are so severe that doctors do not know if he'll survive or not. His wife was at his side in intensive care most of the night. The victim hit by a single gunshot wound to the abdomen. And here's what a hospital spokesman had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE KUTTENKULER, HOSPITAL SPOKESMAN: He's a 37-year-old male, came here, he was conscious when he arrived, and was immediately taken to the operating room. He was in the OR for about three hours. And he got out shortly after midnight and he's in critical condition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DAVIS: Surgeons did not retrieve a bullet from that victim. It is still lodged in his body. It's not known whether they will attempt, if he has any more surgeries, to go ahead and get that bullet. But certainly a key piece of evidence that police will want to look at as they try to find out whether this shooting is connected to the other sniper shootings or not -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Patty, is the hospital in a lockdown situation at all, because this man is a witness to the shooting, as is his wife, who is inside by his side?

DAVIS: We are told not. The doors are locked in the front. There was extra security added here, but normally, overnight, when we were here monitoring the situation, the hospital was not in any other situation than it normally is, just some extra security.

COSTELLO: All right. Thank you very much, Patty Davis reporting from Richmond, Virginia this morning. We'll head back to the Atlanta studios, and Larry, as you heard, that press conference in Ashland, Virginia probably won't take place until 11:00, but of course, CNN will be keeping an eye on things there. SMITH: OK, Carol, everyone else, thanks so much. By the way, when that does happen, we'll carry it live here on CNN, a little later this morning, as Carol just mentioned, probably not until 11:00. Police will update their investigation into the shooting in Virginia. Stay with us, again, live coverage of that expected sometime around 11:00 Eastern time -- Catherine?

CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Every bullet from the confirmed sniper attacks has been the same caliber and ballistics tests show that it came from the same weapons, but police, however, do not have the bullet from last night's victim. It's still lodged in the victim's body. Joining me this morning to talk more about the firearms used in these attacks and the skill of the shooter in this case, CNN firearms analyst, retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney. Thanks, Eric, for being with us.

ERIC HANEY, CNN FIREARMS ANALYST: Sure.

CALLAWAY: Lots to talk about this morning. First, we do know that they'll be able to identify this bullet, eventually, when it's removed from the victim. And is it going to tell us anything new that we don't already know, other than to connect it to the other shootings?

HANEY: No, if it's the same bullet from the same rifle, that's exactly what it tells us, and it helps build the body of evidence on how these people are operating and what they're doing. It just confirms things for the police and it gives them a little bit more. They can analyze things a little bit in greater depth.

CALLAWAY: Some of things that we're hearing out of the shooting last night, and again, it's not confirmed that it is from the same weapon, was just the sound of this going off.

HANEY: Right. The wife, I understand, reported that she heard a sound as her husband was shot, but she didn't recognize it as a gunshot.

CALLAWAY: Kind of like a car backfiring, right?

HANEY: Right. And if, indeed, it was fired from within a vehicle, it's a subdued sound. The vehicle acts as a sound suppressor, a silencer, and instead of that boom, rolling rifle shot, actually what you're going to nearby is a thump.

CALLAWAY: Because it's shot from inside.

HANEY: Because it's inside. And when someone hears that thump, they don't recognize it is as a gunshot.

CALLAWAY: Neither one of us have been to that location, so it would be hard to guess how anyone would get a vehicle up in that wooded area.

HANEY: We don't know wooded area yet, either, see. Most of these have taken place from the back of a parking lot or across another parking lot from a dark spot, an unlighted spot. The only place it was wooded and where they left the vehicle was when the little boy was shot at school.

CALLAWAY: Right. These police and officials up there in that area worked so quickly, and even though this was some 90 miles from other shootings, they were able to shut down this area. Does that lead you to believe that there is more than one person involved in this?

HANEY: Well, I've been convinced of that almost all along. When I first heard of it, I said two, just because that's the way snipers work and I'm just convinced these are wannabe snipers. Then I thought about it, I said, it's so doggone hard to keep a secret with one person and when two are involved, your problems go up exponentially. But within a day of that, I discounted that. I'm positive in my mind it's two people working together.

CALLAWAY: And how are they getting away so quickly?

HANEY: They make meticulous reconnaissance of where they're going to take the shot. It's the most important thing to them is the sighting of where they shoot from and the ability to rapidly get away, and in every instance that I have looked at, they have a route that they can get on a small feeder road and get immediately out of the area before they run into the first stop light that will bring them to a halt. And they're doing right hand turns in every instance I've seen when they pull into traffic.

CALLAWAY: I can't imagine any individual being calm enough to leave a situation like that and think completely clearly.

HANEY: Well, but if the second partner is the one sitting under the wheel pulling security, and he doesn't have the adrenaline rush of shooting.

CALLAWAY: We've received, as we've been saying all morning, a lot of e-mail from people saying the media is giving this too much coverage. However, the people that are sending us e-mail who say we're not doing enough are, of course, the people who live in this region where they're rightly so terrified. What kind of role if anything, is the media playing in this, and do you think it's having any affect at all on the investigation?

HANEY: It's going to help the investigation. Remember, we don't have our duties as citizens for self-protection. We hired the police to do the job for us, normally. This is going to be solved by something that citizenry sees. In the military, we call that a force multiplier. There are millions of eyes out there looking, but there is a very limited number of police having to respond and work on this thing, so pay attention. And I would tell the citizens, pay attention.

CALLAWAY: Well, you know what, if I'm living there, I want to know what am I supposed to be looking for.

HANEY: OK. This is what I look for. When I step into a parking lot in the strip mall, look right down the lane that you drive in. They're sitting up at the back of parking lots or across from parking lots, but they shoot down the lane that you drive in. And remember, you drive into that lane, the parking spot to the left and right, and then you walk down the lane. So that's their field of fire, as we call it in the military.

Just look at the back of the parking lot. You know, if I saw a white van with its rear doors facing me, I'd get out of the line.

CALLAWAY: Or any van. We don't know if it's a white van.

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAWAY: There's thousands of those out there.

HANEY: And don't focus on white vans. Just pay attention. If you hear something that sounds odd, look at the back of a parking lot. Just look there immediately. Maybe you'll see something.

CALLAWAY: It's a shame we have to think this way. Eric, thank you for being with us, I know you're going to be with us throughout the day, and thank you for your insight. Eric Haney.

And for an in-depth look at the hunt for the D.C. area sniper, you can turn to cnn.com, in addition to the coverage on the main page of the site, CNN.com now has a special report that's titled "Sniper Attacks: A Trail of Terror." Included in the special are some interactive maps for you, as you can see, we have some timelines, we have profiles of some of the victims. We also have some tips for dealing with all the anxiety in this. A fact sheet there for you. Much more. Take a look at that, at cnn.com.

SMITH: Good information there about what to do in those situations as well throughout -- and public trying to protect itself. Well, coming up in a half hour, we'll take comments and try to answer your questions about these sniper shootings. Our reporters are standing by. Send your e-mails now, wam@cnn.com.

CALLAWAY: Actually, we have enough. We have thousands of e- mails this morning. We're also going to be taking your phone calls so you can be calling us. We're going to have security analyst Kelly McCann with us, many other people who are covering this for CNN on stand-by to answer some of you questions. So stay with us, everyone. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMITH: Nine are dead, two are wounded, one of those numbers will go up if authorities determine that this latest shooting in Ashland, Virginia, last night is connected to the D.C. sniper. Let's now go back to Washington, a place that's not feeling very safe or secure these days. CNN security analyst Kelly McCann live in our Washington bureau. Kelly, thanks for joining us once again this morning.

KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Larry. SMITH: Very quickly, let's start with all the speculation being talked about the snipers and the things, who is this person, is there more than one person. Your thoughts on this?

MCCANN: Well, everyone has a desire to know. I mean, everybody right now wants to know something, but no matter how hard you stamp your foot, you know, some things are unknowable for the moment. And I think that we're all basically products of our own experiences, et cetera. But if we stick to the facts, and I think there's some very legitimate things that have been said, but sticking to the facts, at some point, we've all got to say, jeez, we just don't know that. And if you can't tie a substantial link to something, then it's certainly something to think on, and people should do that. They should think about all of these different options, but center on the facts.

SMITH: You have mentioned as well, advice, so many things coming up in terms of the Halloween is coming up, football games, outdoor activities. We want to live our lives. Advice to people who are concerned how they can protect themselves, not just in going out and getting gas or going to the grocery store, but sending their children out to collect Halloween candy next week.

MCCANN: Well, for the adults, it sounds like an out-of-the-box thought, but the first thing I'd do is just turn to history. I mean, we've overcome great adversity in history. You can find individual accounts of people personally overcoming fear, overcoming burdensome feelings, et cetera. So I think we've got to remember who we are. We're Americans, and one person simply won't be allowed to shut things down.

Then secondly, err on the side of safety, and at least incorporate common sense security kinds of steps into your day. A lot of people go through the normal life without an event like this never even considering personal security. So like Eric just said, you know, as you walk down that avenue of fire, if you will, you might not want to walk down the center. You might want to move and mask yourself out of that line of sight. You may want to take that loop around the parking lot, and if you see a vehicle just sitting there where there are two men or one man just sitting there with no apparent reason for just sitting in a place, you might want to question why and choose not to stop and get out of a vehicle.

So I mean, those kinds of things, you know, acting as a force multiplier, where we are, in fact, the force multipliers for the police agencies. You know, one group of men who have not been spoken about a lot, Larry, are the police. We've spoken about the criminal, we've spoken about the victim. But the police have put just incredible hours into this. A lot of them are still on scene this morning down in Richmond and never did go anywhere. They've been around the clock. So I think even though we're not getting the result a lot of people really want, we still have to remember it's not because they don't desire it that way.

SMITH: And what are you hearing from them? Your friends in the law enforcement field and things that they are talking about and their frustration as this continues? MCCANN: You hit the nail on the head, frustration. To a man, I mean, these are professional men. Don't forget that their families also live in these communities. Their fathers, their mothers, their children go to the same schools. So they have a personal interest in the public safety as well. And they are frustrated, because when you move many organizations, it's like moving a battleship at sea. It takes miles. You can't just stop and make a left turn. So when they move a task force, although individual elements can move quickly, it's hard to just do a 90-degree turn and change focus. And there are inter-agency kind of discussions and sharing of information. There are lead agencies, there are subordinate agencies.

So they've got their hands full, but each one of them, each one of those professional men and women want to succeed at this.

SMITH: OK. Kelly McCann, thanks so much. I want to stop there. I know you're back with us here at the bottom half of the hour to talk more about these things. Thanks for your comments for now.

MCCANN: Thanks, Larry.

SMITH: OK. CNN security analyst Kelly McCann. Sniper on the loose. Our live coverage continues. We're back with more after a break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

SMITH: While we follow the latest on the sniper shootings, it is time to take questions and your questions on the ongoing search and investigation. You can call in with your inquiries now or your queries about the serial sniper. And that phone number once again, toll-free, doesn't cost you anything, 1-800-807-2620.

CALLAWAY: There is not much that our panel cannot answer this morning. We have CNN security analyst Kelly McCann, joining us from Washington, and we have criminologist, CNN criminologist Casey Jordan, who is in New York, and Ed Lavandera is in Ashland, Virginia. We don't have Ed.

Well, this is retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney. He's joining us from Atlanta. Thank you all for being with us. Ed is actually at the site of the last shooting. We're not -- no official word yet. There's Ed -- on whether or not this is another victim from the sniper, but certainly a lot of similarities. Ed's been covering that for us all night long.

We're going to begin with an e-mail. And I have to say this again, I have never seen this many e-mail coming in on one particular topic. Just hundreds and hundreds of them. And it was....

SMITH: They keep pouring in.

CALLAWAY: Right. We tried to pick some e-mail that was representative of many that we've received. We're going to start with this one from Larry. Kelly, I'm going to send this one to you. "As I was watching your coverage last night, I thought if I were a sniper, I'd have my partner on the cell phone watching CNN as I was leaving my last shot telling me which roads are being shut down by the police and where." You know, how -- is that a real possibility that that could be happening?

MCCANN: Absolutely. And, I mean, the same thought ran through everybody's mind. There's always the rush to get information out. And it was reported where there were road blocks observed being put up. And, of course that would allow clever people to vector to a new direction. So sometimes when you hear things, you wince and you say, maybe we shouldn't have said just that thing. However, other people who are in a long line of traffic and don't know what's going on need to know, or they want to know. So it's always a fine balancing act that the media has to deal with every day.

SMITH: Our next e-mail is one I want to send out to Casey Jordan, our CNN criminologist, because the person, well, refers to Casey specifically. "Why does every reporter on every station, not just Casey the criminologist, presume that the killer or killers are men? I have yet to hear any reporter, or anchor, or expert on any news reports or stations open their presumptions to the female sex. Do they all believe that women are incapable of such act?" Casey.

CASEY JORDAN, CNN CRIMINOLOGIST: Oh, women are not incapable of anything by any means, but the entire point of what the criminologists do -- we don't pretend this is science -- it is the art of educated guessing, based on previous cases. And based on previous cases, off the top of my head, I can think of one particular female sniper in a New Jersey shopping mall, maybe 10 years ago. I know there are smattering of others, but -- and I don't have the exact statistics in front of me -- but I'd be surprised if we had more than a 1 or 2 percent incident of women perpetrating sniper attacks. It's not impossible. It's so improbable that for the sake of simplicity, I think everyone's decided to call the sniper a he.

CALLAWAY: Let's go ahead and take a phone call now. Aisha from Virginia, you're on the line. Do you have a question?

AISHA: Yes, I have a question, with all of the roadblocks that they're doing, are they keeping track of all the license plate numbers of all the cars and the trucks and all that they're stopping to see if there are any trucks that are in the same area around the same time?

CALLAWAY: Ed, let's go to you. You're there on the scene. Is there any discussion from the police about taking license plate numbers? And I know we saw some video of people actually being handcuffed and questioned last night, but of course, there were no arrests in that case. What's been going on there?

LAVANDERA: Well, we've seen that happen several times whenever these shooting attacks occur. I've actually seen officers pulling each and every car over, taking down license plate information and driver's license information. And we can only presume that it's a huge catalog of information that they'd have to start collecting on all of this, but perhaps within that, they may maybe find similar license plates, similar driver's licenses at some of these different shootings, and maybe that might peak their interest on something or someone. It's hard to say, and there are many different ways, I think, that they can probably use that information to their advantage.

SMITH: OK, Ed, let's step aside for one moment. Let's bring Patty Davis in. She's at the hospital in Richmond, Virginia, with an update on this latest victim -- Patty.

DAVIS: That's right. We just got an update from the hospital spokeswoman here at the Medical College of Virginia in Richmond. This 37-year-old victim remains in critical but guarded condition. We're told he is in a life-threatening state.

Now, his condition, we're told, overnight did not worsen. Certainly, good news for doctors as they seek to repair his wounds. We're also told that they may have to go in today and do additional surgery. That may give doctors an opportunity to retrieve the bullet. Police say that they were not able to retrieve a bullet or did not choose to retrieve a bullet in the first surgery. That is a critical piece of evidence that the police will be looking for to try to link this, if it is at all linked, to the other sniper cases in the Washington, D.C. and Virginia and Maryland areas.

So hospital staff saying that the victim's wife extremely brave, she's by his side here in the intensive care unit of the hospital as he's dealing, trying to recover from that wound to the abdomen that he got shot from some distance in that Ponderosa parking lot yesterday. Hanover County Sheriff's Department deputies also here at the hospital, we're told, not specifically providing extra protection, but they're here because they want to relay information to the police who are working this case. Back to you.

SMITH: OK, Patty Davis, thanks so much. It's now been almost nine hours since he was released from the emergency room, from the operating room and, of course, we continue to watch -- monitor his condition.

Stay with us here. More with our roundtable, more calls from you and e-mails as well after a quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CALLAWAY: Welcome back, everyone. We're continuing to take your phone calls this morning, and again we're joined by CNN security analyst Kelly McCann, CNN criminologist Casey Jordan and CNN's Ed Lavandera, also CNN's firearms analyst and retired Army Sergeant Major Eric Haney. Thank you all for being, again, with us, lots of e-mails and lots of phone calls.

And Eric, actually, I want to get to you first, because we just got an e-mail, that's actually been positive about coverage this morning. And that had to do with an interview I did with you just a little while ago on what people should keep in mind, actually, when they are traveling about in this area. Some things to do to keep them safe. And I know that's actually your background. You actually teach corporate executives who are abroad on how to stay safe.

HANEY: Well, that's true. When I provide protection for executives and diplomats in overseas countries where some of these areas are pretty doggone dangerous and some of them are targeted for death, the first thing you teach the person is called situational awareness, and basically it's just pay attention to your surroundings, pay attention to your immediate surroundings and your immediate view out to the limits of a danger area.

CALLAWAY: This guy, who is from Texas, Joe Beavers, said that it was useful information and of course would like more. It's pathetic that people living in this region have to think this way, but it's a reality, nonetheless.

HANEY: True.

CALLAWAY: What are some of the things they should keep in mind?

HANEY: Well, first thing, walk with a purpose, keep your head and your eyes up. Don't look at the ground. You're not going to trip and fall over a crack in the cement. Scan about you, both close to see that there's no one right on top of you to cause you harm. This is just general anti-criminal things, and then for the people in the Virginia, Northern Virginia, D.C. area, look around at the back of parking lots. The shooter is setting up mostly at the back of parking lots or just off the side of those. So just scan out in that direction. Move straight to your car, have your keys in your hand, get directly in the car, crank up and leave.

CALLAWAY: And don't walk down the middle of the parking lot, as you said earlier.

HANEY: Sure.

SMITH: OK. Let's go to the phone calls now. One from Mike in Maryland. Hi, Mike.

MIKE: Yeah, hi, this is for the security analyst.

SMITH: Kelly McCann.

MIKE: Yes. I was wondering, has the government considered possibly that this might be a draw-away tactic to draw away our forces, our security forces around that area for some type of other terrorist event? And is our homeland security still strong and intact?

MCCANN: It's a good question, Mike. We've talked about that a little bit. And, of course, in the scenarios that you can develop and argue convincingly, one that you can argue convincingly is if this is al Qaeda related or terrorist related, to what end? And that is exactly the scenario you just brought up, which is to overtax existing municipalities, state assets and federal assets while another event is either prepared for or they move into the execution phase. Gets even more troubling when you think about Mr. Tenet's comments just recently, et cetera.

So there are people looking at that. But again, without substantiation, without being able to, use the cliche, connect those dots, we can't necessarily overengage with that thought.

CALLAWAY: Let's go to Susan, in California, who is on the line. Good morning, Susan.

SUSAN: Good morning. I was just wondering, being on the opposite coast here, I tune into you constantly. I was wondering, does this sniper seem to be moving more south now?

CALLAWAY: Well, you know, let's go to Ed Lavandera there on the scene. Ed, is there a discussion among the officials there, are they concerned that this, indeed, since we've seen this now, apparently, although official word, we should say, that this one 90 miles south of Washington, D.C. has not been confirmed that it came from the same weapon, but Ed, is there concern there we see this moving south now, at least the investigation, in preventative measures?

LAVANDERA: I'm glad the caller brought that point up today, because I was just speaking here with several of our colleagues, and that's the kind of the line of questioning for us we were going to pursue a little bit at this morning's press conference, that if indeed there is -- I think that's five shootings now in Virginia that have taken place, and the last several shootings have kind of, as the caller pointed out, sort of moved a little bit southward. We're going to start pursuing that line of questioning and try to figure out if it's something authorities are starting to think about.

Remember, that first cluster of shootings took place in Maryland, and everything since then has kind of spread out a little bit. And I wonder, quite frankly, as well what authorities make of that.

SMITH: Question I have for you, Ed, or Eric, if you want to come in with this as well, the chances of maybe more than one car being used. We've talked about, it's a white van. It may not be a white van. Maybe this was a different kind of car. What are the chances of maybe more than one vehicle being used?

CALLAWAY: Yeah, let's go to the e-mail that we've got concerning that. This is from Louis. This is e-mail number two, I believe. Is it possible -- we're scanning for that because we're driving our producer crazy, because she's having to find all this e-mail. "Is it possible that the van that cannot be found has been placed into a larger truck and then fleeing?" First of all, we don't know for sure that it was a van. But I guess they're saying -- and we've received a number of e-mails suggesting this, that perhaps the vehicle is being stuck into a truck, perhaps, and then able to escape that way.

You know, Eric, what do you think? What are the possibilities of something like that happening?

HANEY: About zero. About zero. That's movie stuff. These people are moving away from the site of the shooting rapidly, they know exactly where they're going. If you're going to try some little stunt like that, sounds good in Hollywood, how long is that going to take you? How many people are you going to have to have handling ramps and get you inside? What if you miss the blasted ramp and you crash into the back of your truck?

No, what they're doing is simple. It's simplicity. It's well- thought-out, but simple works.

CALLAWAY: And Kelly, I know you want to weigh in on that too. Certainly, simple has to be the way to be successful in these type of horrible crimes?

MCCANN: I think Eric hit the nail on the head, which is about zero. I mean, for all the reasons, logistically supporting that, who's got the CDL license, the commercial driver's license to have a truck that big, where do you do that and not be seen? So there are all kinds of things you can consider. How many of them are probable are quite few.

SMITH: Let's bring Casey Jordan back. We haven't heard from her in a few minutes. Casey, our CNN criminologist, one e-mail from North Carolina asking, could this probably be a policeman involved in this somehow, involved in the actual shootings?

JORDAN: Well, since I just got lectured on the idea that it could be a female, let's use the word police officer.

SMITH: There you go. Fair enough.

JORDAN: But the short answer to that is no. I don't see any evidence to indicate that this is the work of a current working military person or police officer. We certainly have, in our research, evidence that serial killers do have a fascination with all things military and law enforcement. Many of them impersonate police officers. Many of them -- I should say some of them have served as auxiliary officers, security officers. They've got that thing where they want to carry a badge and feel important sometimes, but this is how we categorize them as wannabes.

There is a lot that might suggest that in this particular case, but there is so much we don't know that we don't want to jump to that conclusion at this juncture.

CALLAWAY: Again, we're trying to bring to you some of the e-mail that represents other e-mail that we've received, because we have received just hundreds of them. I want to go to this one from Richmond, Indiana. "I understand that it is your privilege and right to report everything possible on the sniper case, but when you tell the country and the world that the bullets are distinctive to the shotgun barrel, how do you not know that that person or persons involved are not watching this program? And if they are, all that they have to do is change the gun that they're using. I'm just saying, some things should be left out."

You know, I know you've said that earlier, Kelly, that you agreed. What about you, Eric? Is there too much information out there?

HANEY: No, there's not. There's enough information. He knows there are distinctive markings on the bullets. That's no secret to this person. He really doesn't care, because there's nothing to link him back until they grab him and the weapon.

CALLAWAY: You want to weigh in on that, Kelly?

MCCANN: Just that substantive things obviously are not going to be released. For instance, one thing that was contentious was, you know, if the military is supporting with surveillance or reconnaissance assets, what's the coverage area? Well, obviously, no one is going to define that area. As far as, you know, how tooling marks interact with -- through the lens and grooves on a round, absolutely. I mean, you know, there are so many other signatures about the way these incidents are being undertaken, there's going to be similarities. The public needs to know things so they can, you know, engage in public safety. So we've got to walk that line.

SMITH: Let's get to some final thoughts from our panel here. Let's start first in New York. CNN criminologist Casey Jordan, your thoughts?

JORDAN: Well, I think the one thing that we have to admit in this particular case is this killer, reprehensible as this is, is not an idiot, and I really don't think that this person is learning anything from the media that he or they don't already know. They've shot 11, possibly 12 people now and gotten away. They've done this because they're using a tremendous amount of calculating, planning, rational thought, and they may be watching the media to get a sense of satisfaction over the success of what they've done.

But whether the media covers that or not, they're going to feel a sense of satisfaction. So I don't think the media's been out of line at all. Granted, the public does not need to know everything. I'm assuming there's a lot we don't know.

CALLAWAY: CNN's Ed Lavandera in Ashland, Virginia, site of the shooting last night, which has not officially been connected to the sniper. What's the last word from there, Ed?

LAVANDERA: My thoughts here, you can't help but think about just all the vast number of investigators that have been working this case for the last two weeks. You know, unfortunately, as each one of these shootings continues to happen, that table of investigators just continues to grow, and you know, the thoughts of what these investigators must be going through behind the scenes, and we talked about a lot of the things we don't know. You can kind of imagine, these guys have been working around the clock, trying to figure out where this guy might be, where he might attack next. And I think the enormous weight of that kind of pressure can be very daunting for a lot of these folks.

SMITH: And that takes us to Kelly McCann, our senior security analyst in Washington -- Kelly. MCCANN: Well, I'd say is that although these are unfortunate circumstances, everybody needs to remember they are still exponentially and much more significantly at risk by normal everyday things we encounter, automobile accidents, disease, et cetera. It's hard not to get overtaken and overwhelmed when the media coverage is as it is. But we've got to remember, you do have a life. It's the only one you get, so you should live it well.

CALLAWAY: And Eric Haney, you have the final word, our CNN firearms analyst.

HANEY: Well, I think this whole thing is going to slow down, and it has slowed down significantly. We had that first cluster of shootings, just a whole flurry of them. And people were concerned he's taking the weekends off. He wasn't taking the weekends off. They were preparing for the next portion of the operation, their mission, as they think of it.

Then we had this long hiatus here recently. They were a little bit frightened and lost some of their confidence after the shooting at the Home Depot. Now things get a little bit harder to plan the next operations. And if we're just vigilant and everyone pays attention in that area, if you see something that just seems odd to you, call the police. If you know of a flake that you're just suspicious of, to have this lifestyle, call the police. Just -- that's how we're going to find him, is by the public being out there and being vigilant, and eventually we're going to get these people.

CALLAWAY: I don't think anybody is going to argue with that. And good police work by all that have been working on this. Eric Haney here in Atlanta, thank you very much, our firearms analyst. Ed Lavandera there on the scene in Ashland, criminologist Casey Jordan and security analyst Kelly McCann, thank you all. I wish we could get to all of the e-mail, but indeed we did get to those that were representative of a great number that we received this morning. Thank you so much for sending those to us this morning, and for your phone calls.

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