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CNN Sunday Morning
Eyewitness Comes Forward in Sniper Shootings
Aired October 27, 2002 - 07:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: The sniper investigation now centers on that blue 1990 Chevy Caprice, in which the sniper suspects were captured. The registered co-owner of the car has been arrested, and a witness has come forward saying he saw a blue Chevy Caprice the night one victim was killed. CNN's Carol Lin is live at the sniper investigation headquarters in Maryland.
Good morning, Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Renay. Yes, we want to take care of a couple of housekeeping duties here. Just to keep you up to speed on the story, first off, Nathaniel Osbourne, who was arrested yesterday in Flint, Michigan -- he was arrested on an FBI material witness warrant. The task force here believes that Nathaniel Osbourne is a friend a friend of John Allen Muhammad, the sniper suspect, and also actually helps John Muhammad buy the now infamous 1990 blue Chevy Caprice. According to the Associated Press, there is a court hearing today in this matter, and we understand that Nathaniel Osbourne is in fact cooperating with the investigators.
Now, apparently this car was bought on September 10 from a dealership called the SureShot Auto dealership in Trenton, New Jersey. The owner of that dealership says that John Allen Muhammad, who was at the scene when he bought the car, seemed to be very agitated.
Now, what sorts of question might they want to be asking Nathaniel Osbourne? Well, what investigators want to know is, they want to track the path of John Allen Muhammad -- where did he travel in the area, how did he support himself, who, if anybody, helped him rig that blue Chevy Caprice into the killing machine that it became, with the two holes in the back where they could shoot out with the nuzzle and the scope of the actual gun itself, and who helped finance his survival here in the area?
Also, CNN has learned that there was a witness to an October 3 shooting of a 17 -- 72-year-old man in northwest Washington, D.C. There was a witness who actually saw a blue Chevy Caprice in the area at the time of the shooting. But the witness did not come forward until after the two men had been arrested, because there was so much focus by authorities on a white van, or a white truck at the time. You might recall that between October 3 and October 12, investigators had released at least three composite graphic drawings of white vans or trucks, saying that they had been seen by several eyewitnesses at different parts of the shootings.
In the meantime, the blue Chevy Caprice, we know now, according to various media reports and our own reporting, that the license plate of that blue Chevy Caprice had been run as many as 10 times while these suspects were driving through the area, for various reasons or another -- even the suspects being stopped on occasion to be asked about either sleeping in the car, or questioned about a New Jersey license plate with John Muhammad having a Washington state license.
Well, CNN's Wolf Blitzer talked with Chief Charles Moose here of Montgomery County's Police Department about those charges that the police simply dropped the ball on this car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE: I would hope that no one would rush to judgment and assume that it was stopped. We put a lot of plates in the computer. We checked the status of that plate. At this point, we're still finalizing that work, where they actually had conversation with the police officer. But when we're doing road blocks, when we're stopping a lot of cars, you run those plates, it comes back clear, it comes back with no lookout attached to it, you move on to the next car.
So, let's not be premature in judging a tremendous job by law enforcement in the Washington metropolitan area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: All right, you can see more of that interview on CNN's "LATE EDITION" with Wolf Blitzer at noon Eastern.
It was really interesting, Renay. I got a chance, briefly, to talk with the chief after the interview that Wolf did yesterday, and I asked him, have you -- have you spoken to the suspects? Have you even seen them? And he smiled and he said, that's really funny, because that's the first question my son asked me, and then Chief Moose said, "I'm not interested in seeing them, or speaking to them -- I have no interest at all." In fact, he said his first priority now is to save his department from $5 million budget cut. But Renay, I think he's got some leverage there today.
SAN MIGUEL: I would think so, and how interesting that, you know, because of this nemesis type of relationship that was set up through the media between, you know, the sniper or the suspects, and himself in passing along messages, and now he says he has no desire to talk to them, and it's back to business, back to the budget discussions.
LIN: Yes, back to business, back to the budget -- he's still involved in some of the investigation obviously, but now it's more in the prosecutorial side.
SAN MIGUEL: Exactly, well we'll be checking...
LIN: ... it's been a tough time for him.
SAN MIGUEL: ... exactly, we'll be checking in with you later on this morning, Carol Lin, thank you for that report. LIN: Sure.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN ANCHOR: OK, right now, let's talk more about the sniper investigation. CNN security analyst Kelly McCann joins us now from Washington.
Good morning, Kelly.
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Arthel.
NEVILLE: Hi. First of all, Nathaniel Osbourne is being brought in today as a material witness -- tell us first, what is a material witness, and what sort of information can authorities get from Osbourne?
MCCANN: Well, certainly, it's a little bit odd that pretty much his whole background up to that point, Williams, was in the Louisiana area, Tacoma, Washington, the Washington area, and suddenly, he's collocated with someone in New Jersey, who agrees to pay half of the vehicle's cost.
So, I think that he's material in the fact that they want to establish how he knew Williams previously, and basically their relationship, how it spanned, and what organizations that he may belong to, itineraries that they may have traveled together in the past couple of years, et cetera.
So, material witness means that he may have significant things to say, or to add to the investigation.
NEVILLE: And perhaps that might lead authorities to some sort of motive in the case.
MCCANN: Absolutely.
NEVILLE: Listen, now, authorities are saying that Muhammad may have been -- and Malvo may been associated with the Muslim group Jamad Al-Fuqra (ph), and the State Department lists this group as a terrorist group operating out of Pakistan and North America. What do you know about this group?
MCCANN: It's been in operating since about the 1980s. It's centered in Lahore, Pakistan, and Sheik Gelani (ph) is the man who is responsible for starting it. Basically, the name says it all. It's also known by the name Jihad Council for North America. It's active in the Caribbean, and in North America, and in Pakistan, and if you see the Caribbean link, Richard Reid obviously, Malvo, and now Muhammad, it's interesting -- there's just a tremendous amount of coincidence and overlap that needs to be investigated.
NEVILLE: So, in fact, does this mean authorities have a lot more work here on hand, because, in fact, if you have a possible cells or associates working out of the United States, and that could be a deeper problem.
MCCANN: Absolutely, and in any investigation the acceleration point is at the apprehension. When you apprehend somebody you should accelerate forward in order to run down leads that may run on, especially when you are doing counter terror, into other areas, and I think that to be fair, no one's making any statements saying that there is a link. I think everyone is just saying that there are so many coincidences, Arthel, that we would be foolish not to run them into ground.
So, everyone just has to be patient and understanding, and understand that we are in a war on terror.
NEVILLE: Right, and of course highlighting the fact that there is no conviction at this point, asking you though, do you think there's a possibility that there would be more people involved, aside from Malvo and Muhammad?
MCCANN: I think that that's a very real possibility. Now, to what extent Muhammad and Malvo where real actors involved in an ongoing operation, or whether they were just throw-aways, i.e. like Padilla and Reid may have been, will be the interesting question.
NEVILLE: Now, you know, authorities, as we said, arrested Osbourne and they were going to bring him as -- bring him in as a material witness. Do you think there could be other arrest in this case?
MCCANN: I know that they'll probably be a lot more investigation, a lot more field interviews, and a lot more interviewing, and I think that people will be listed as material witnesses to be brought in. Now, whether or not they -- that goes to apprehension to arrest, we'll have to see.
NEVILLE: Kelly McCann, thank you very much for joining us here this morning.
MCCANN: You bet, Arthel.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 27, 2002 - 07:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: The sniper investigation now centers on that blue 1990 Chevy Caprice, in which the sniper suspects were captured. The registered co-owner of the car has been arrested, and a witness has come forward saying he saw a blue Chevy Caprice the night one victim was killed. CNN's Carol Lin is live at the sniper investigation headquarters in Maryland.
Good morning, Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Renay. Yes, we want to take care of a couple of housekeeping duties here. Just to keep you up to speed on the story, first off, Nathaniel Osbourne, who was arrested yesterday in Flint, Michigan -- he was arrested on an FBI material witness warrant. The task force here believes that Nathaniel Osbourne is a friend a friend of John Allen Muhammad, the sniper suspect, and also actually helps John Muhammad buy the now infamous 1990 blue Chevy Caprice. According to the Associated Press, there is a court hearing today in this matter, and we understand that Nathaniel Osbourne is in fact cooperating with the investigators.
Now, apparently this car was bought on September 10 from a dealership called the SureShot Auto dealership in Trenton, New Jersey. The owner of that dealership says that John Allen Muhammad, who was at the scene when he bought the car, seemed to be very agitated.
Now, what sorts of question might they want to be asking Nathaniel Osbourne? Well, what investigators want to know is, they want to track the path of John Allen Muhammad -- where did he travel in the area, how did he support himself, who, if anybody, helped him rig that blue Chevy Caprice into the killing machine that it became, with the two holes in the back where they could shoot out with the nuzzle and the scope of the actual gun itself, and who helped finance his survival here in the area?
Also, CNN has learned that there was a witness to an October 3 shooting of a 17 -- 72-year-old man in northwest Washington, D.C. There was a witness who actually saw a blue Chevy Caprice in the area at the time of the shooting. But the witness did not come forward until after the two men had been arrested, because there was so much focus by authorities on a white van, or a white truck at the time. You might recall that between October 3 and October 12, investigators had released at least three composite graphic drawings of white vans or trucks, saying that they had been seen by several eyewitnesses at different parts of the shootings.
In the meantime, the blue Chevy Caprice, we know now, according to various media reports and our own reporting, that the license plate of that blue Chevy Caprice had been run as many as 10 times while these suspects were driving through the area, for various reasons or another -- even the suspects being stopped on occasion to be asked about either sleeping in the car, or questioned about a New Jersey license plate with John Muhammad having a Washington state license.
Well, CNN's Wolf Blitzer talked with Chief Charles Moose here of Montgomery County's Police Department about those charges that the police simply dropped the ball on this car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE: I would hope that no one would rush to judgment and assume that it was stopped. We put a lot of plates in the computer. We checked the status of that plate. At this point, we're still finalizing that work, where they actually had conversation with the police officer. But when we're doing road blocks, when we're stopping a lot of cars, you run those plates, it comes back clear, it comes back with no lookout attached to it, you move on to the next car.
So, let's not be premature in judging a tremendous job by law enforcement in the Washington metropolitan area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: All right, you can see more of that interview on CNN's "LATE EDITION" with Wolf Blitzer at noon Eastern.
It was really interesting, Renay. I got a chance, briefly, to talk with the chief after the interview that Wolf did yesterday, and I asked him, have you -- have you spoken to the suspects? Have you even seen them? And he smiled and he said, that's really funny, because that's the first question my son asked me, and then Chief Moose said, "I'm not interested in seeing them, or speaking to them -- I have no interest at all." In fact, he said his first priority now is to save his department from $5 million budget cut. But Renay, I think he's got some leverage there today.
SAN MIGUEL: I would think so, and how interesting that, you know, because of this nemesis type of relationship that was set up through the media between, you know, the sniper or the suspects, and himself in passing along messages, and now he says he has no desire to talk to them, and it's back to business, back to the budget discussions.
LIN: Yes, back to business, back to the budget -- he's still involved in some of the investigation obviously, but now it's more in the prosecutorial side.
SAN MIGUEL: Exactly, well we'll be checking...
LIN: ... it's been a tough time for him.
SAN MIGUEL: ... exactly, we'll be checking in with you later on this morning, Carol Lin, thank you for that report. LIN: Sure.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN ANCHOR: OK, right now, let's talk more about the sniper investigation. CNN security analyst Kelly McCann joins us now from Washington.
Good morning, Kelly.
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Arthel.
NEVILLE: Hi. First of all, Nathaniel Osbourne is being brought in today as a material witness -- tell us first, what is a material witness, and what sort of information can authorities get from Osbourne?
MCCANN: Well, certainly, it's a little bit odd that pretty much his whole background up to that point, Williams, was in the Louisiana area, Tacoma, Washington, the Washington area, and suddenly, he's collocated with someone in New Jersey, who agrees to pay half of the vehicle's cost.
So, I think that he's material in the fact that they want to establish how he knew Williams previously, and basically their relationship, how it spanned, and what organizations that he may belong to, itineraries that they may have traveled together in the past couple of years, et cetera.
So, material witness means that he may have significant things to say, or to add to the investigation.
NEVILLE: And perhaps that might lead authorities to some sort of motive in the case.
MCCANN: Absolutely.
NEVILLE: Listen, now, authorities are saying that Muhammad may have been -- and Malvo may been associated with the Muslim group Jamad Al-Fuqra (ph), and the State Department lists this group as a terrorist group operating out of Pakistan and North America. What do you know about this group?
MCCANN: It's been in operating since about the 1980s. It's centered in Lahore, Pakistan, and Sheik Gelani (ph) is the man who is responsible for starting it. Basically, the name says it all. It's also known by the name Jihad Council for North America. It's active in the Caribbean, and in North America, and in Pakistan, and if you see the Caribbean link, Richard Reid obviously, Malvo, and now Muhammad, it's interesting -- there's just a tremendous amount of coincidence and overlap that needs to be investigated.
NEVILLE: So, in fact, does this mean authorities have a lot more work here on hand, because, in fact, if you have a possible cells or associates working out of the United States, and that could be a deeper problem.
MCCANN: Absolutely, and in any investigation the acceleration point is at the apprehension. When you apprehend somebody you should accelerate forward in order to run down leads that may run on, especially when you are doing counter terror, into other areas, and I think that to be fair, no one's making any statements saying that there is a link. I think everyone is just saying that there are so many coincidences, Arthel, that we would be foolish not to run them into ground.
So, everyone just has to be patient and understanding, and understand that we are in a war on terror.
NEVILLE: Right, and of course highlighting the fact that there is no conviction at this point, asking you though, do you think there's a possibility that there would be more people involved, aside from Malvo and Muhammad?
MCCANN: I think that that's a very real possibility. Now, to what extent Muhammad and Malvo where real actors involved in an ongoing operation, or whether they were just throw-aways, i.e. like Padilla and Reid may have been, will be the interesting question.
NEVILLE: Now, you know, authorities, as we said, arrested Osbourne and they were going to bring him as -- bring him in as a material witness. Do you think there could be other arrest in this case?
MCCANN: I know that they'll probably be a lot more investigation, a lot more field interviews, and a lot more interviewing, and I think that people will be listed as material witnesses to be brought in. Now, whether or not they -- that goes to apprehension to arrest, we'll have to see.
NEVILLE: Kelly McCann, thank you very much for joining us here this morning.
MCCANN: You bet, Arthel.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
