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CNN Sunday Morning
London Authorities Arrest Three Terrorist Suspects
Aired November 17, 2002 - 07:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN ANCHOR: Scotland Yard said authorities in London have arrested three men suspected of being terrorists. According to London's "Sunday Times," the men had been plotting to release to poison gas on London's subway system, or the Tube. CNN's senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers joins us now from London with the details, and Walter, what can you tell us about these men arrested?
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, I can tell you this is a story that will make the blood run cold in the millions of commuters who use the London underground, the subway, the Tube everyday.
Three Muslims of North African origin are being held under the Terrorism Act of 2000. They have been charged with possession of articles that could be used for the preparation, instigation and commission of terrorist acts. MI-5, the British equivalent of the American FBI, believes it foiled the plot for a planned attack on London.
Not clear, however, is how advanced the alleged plot was. London's Sunday papers say they were planning a nerve gas attack on London's Tube, the underground. The government is less specific, and it does not appear that the three North African Muslims were in possession of poison gas or any bombs, although it is believed they belong to a shadowy group called the North African Front, with ties to al Qaeda, and it is well documented, al Qaeda experimented with cyanide, a deadly gas.
These three North Africans have been under surveillance for months. It's thought MI-5 wanted to allow the surveillance to continue, but reportedly, Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair became anxious, especially in its speculation they might be planning a gas attack on London, and the arrests were made earlier this month. The three alleged plotters will appear in the Bow (ph) Street Magistrates Court again Monday morning, and perhaps more information on the alleged plot will emerge then -- Arthel.
NEVILLE: Now of course, it's still early, but I mean, that's certainly a shocking headline to wake up to on Sunday morning. How do you think the community there will take it?
RODGERS: Well, first, Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair tried to prepare the public for this earlier in the week. He was at that point hinting this is the sort of attack Londoners might face. By the way, earlier this week a tape, attributed to Osama bin Laden, an audio tape, also said that Britain would be number one on the al Qaeda target list, if in fact the British sided with the Americans in any forthcoming war with Iraq.
Now, most important thing to remember in all of this is that the British have been dealing with terrorism for years, long before the Americans ever have. They dealt with the IRA. And how the British public will deal with it is that they have been urged to be more vigilant, as you ride the subway to work, as I do, you're going to be looking for suspicious people, suspicious characters, anyone behaving suspiciously. The public is going to be at a heightened sense of alert, although Prime Minister Blair did urge, no particular panic at this point -- Arthel.
NEVILLE: So, will they, will authorities go ahead and deploy more officers in the underground?
RODGERS: Well, when we spoke with the underground, that is the Tube officials earlier today, they suggested they already have 3.5 million people working for them in kind of surveillance. Anyone who rides the Tube has been urged to be especially alert and on the look out for anything of a suspicious nature.
So, they're not deploying more police. Remember, every one of these underground stations has more than a few closed circuit surveillance cameras in there, looking for anything of a suspicious nature, and because of these reports, because of the headlines we've seen in the Sunday papers here in London and around the country, you're going to be seeing people like you, like me, going out tomorrow morning and just watching closely.
NEVILLE: Sure, OK, Walter Rodgers, thank you very much for that report from London.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk a little bit more about this and the war on terror in general. For that, we turn to one of our favorite experts, Kelly McCann, joining us from Washington, as he always does. Good morning, Kelly, good to see you.
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Miles.
O'BRIEN: First of all, try to sift through this one. Preliminary reports coming out, we're still trying to nail down a few details, it certainly wouldn't be unprecedented here if there was an attempt to stage some kind of gas attack on a subway system. Remember '95, Tokyo, the Aum Shinrikyo cult, I think about a dozen people were killed in that attack. How real is this concern do you think?
MCCANN: Well, I think it's a very real concern. If you remember back in May of 2002, there was a truck in Mexico that was stolen that had 10 tons of cyanide on it. When they found the truck abandoned, it had all but three drums of cyanide on it. Not that cyanide is a preferred method, I mean, there's a lot of gases that are easily made -- economical attack, easily transportable, and a low signature delivery.
So, I think it's a very real concern, and it goes to the scrutiny that we're able to bring to bear on the traveling public, people who are in our, in our area, if you will.
O'BRIEN: All right, and I supposed you put subways in the category of soft targets.
MCCANN: Absolutely, if you think about it, I mean, a lot of narcotics traffic happens on our subways and trains, because there are no real -- there is no scrutiny. I mean, there's no magnetometers, there's no ability to look at people's baggage -- so, yes, that's a very soft target.
O'BRIEN: And I suppose it is a an effective way at disseminating something like this.
MCCANN: Sure, because if you -- just as the reporter from London said, if you introduce that substance into that kind of contained environment and then have the normal, you know, passage of air to the ventilation system, I mean, it's an effective tactical method. So, it makes a lot of sense, we should be concerned about it.
O'BRIEN: Let's try to put some pieces together here if we can, maybe we shouldn't connect too many dots, because it is early in some of these things, but starting with the Osama bin Laden tape, and leading up to this moment, you get the sense that there's an increased level of tempo, chatter is the term that folks and intelligence use to give you the sense that there's more activity going out there on the terrorism front. Is that real or is that a perceived notion of ours?
MCCANN: No, I don't think it's perceived at all, I think it's very real. If you think about the man who probably knows more about what is going on right now globally than anybody, George Tenet, as he said four weeks ago, on the Hill, and he's got access to all of the classified information, he believed that attacks were eminent, that we were at risk. Our secretary of defense has never backed away from saying he believed that other attacks were inevitable, nor has Condoleezza Rice.
So, even more than our analysis of looking at globally, the tempo, and what's occurring, the people who are really, truly in the know, are saying those words, and have not backed away -- there's the clearest indication.
O'BRIEN: All right, inject into all of this comments by Senator Daschle -- pretty critical of the administration -- to be fair, what he said was, that the Bush administration used the capture of Osama bin Laden as the criteria for success, by that measure of success, the war on terrorism is a failure.
First of all, would you accept that criteria as a proper measure for success?
MCCANN: No, and I think that he miss -- he is misstating the criteria. The statements were made by the Bush administration that they're goal and objective was to dismantle the al Qaeda network. Yes, it was a secondary or tertiary goal to get Osama bin Laden. However, more importantly it was to disable the network from continuing to operate globally, and I think he was unfair in saying that, and based on what, his long experience with counter terrorism? I don't think so.
O'BRIEN: All right, then give us a sense then, look at the big picture here, as we look at everything from 9/11 to this moment, net, pure bottom line here -- is the U.S. winning this war?
MCCANN: I don't know that you can say winning, I think that, you know, these kind of engagements are dynamic and as we take actions, they take -- they react, and as they take action, we react. So, it's a dynamic situation, but if you look at the chronology, I mean, we just recently performed direct action mission in Yemen, which meant that we had to put four people in a vehicle, in the middle of a lot of sand, and we reached out and touched them.
Next thing that we've done recently, we disabled the Abu Sayyaf network in the Philippines, or at least routed them from their position on the Basilan island, and all of that. We've identified the tri-river (ph) valley region down in Latin America, long known to be a hot bed of activity, and I think there's a lot of scrutiny down there now.
We have forward attacks in Singapore, in Italy, we have captured and detained al Qaeda leadership, so I think to be fair, truly objective and fair, you have to on balance say, well, if you are playing political bad mitten with statistics, sure you can make it look anyway you want, but the fact shows that we are making great strides.
O'BRIEN: Well, the fact is, this is a nation of the fast food drive up window, we want instant gratification don't we?
MCCANN: We're after that hamburger word (ph), you know, eat it, boom, that was great, move on -- unfortunately, the world is changed. You know, if you go to the U.K., for example, you can't find a dumpster in an alley, and you can't find a trash den on the street, because the -- they've had to change their culture, they learned that the IRA could use those to, you know, conceal and disguise bombs.
So, they've made cultural changes that we have not made yet, people have not embraced this -- going into this, we said, all of us would need endurance, and that's what a war like this takes, is you have to hang in there, it doesn't go away, and until we make that mental leap, Miles, I think we're going to be looking for the quick, easy, answer, and there's simply aren't any.
O'BRIEN: Are you optimistic the nation will make that lead?
MCCANN: I'm always optimistic, read your history, we've been through some rough stuff before, we'll get through it.
O'BRIEN: All right, Kelly McCann, good to leave it on that note. Appreciate it, as always. See you a little later.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 17, 2002 - 07:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN ANCHOR: Scotland Yard said authorities in London have arrested three men suspected of being terrorists. According to London's "Sunday Times," the men had been plotting to release to poison gas on London's subway system, or the Tube. CNN's senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers joins us now from London with the details, and Walter, what can you tell us about these men arrested?
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, I can tell you this is a story that will make the blood run cold in the millions of commuters who use the London underground, the subway, the Tube everyday.
Three Muslims of North African origin are being held under the Terrorism Act of 2000. They have been charged with possession of articles that could be used for the preparation, instigation and commission of terrorist acts. MI-5, the British equivalent of the American FBI, believes it foiled the plot for a planned attack on London.
Not clear, however, is how advanced the alleged plot was. London's Sunday papers say they were planning a nerve gas attack on London's Tube, the underground. The government is less specific, and it does not appear that the three North African Muslims were in possession of poison gas or any bombs, although it is believed they belong to a shadowy group called the North African Front, with ties to al Qaeda, and it is well documented, al Qaeda experimented with cyanide, a deadly gas.
These three North Africans have been under surveillance for months. It's thought MI-5 wanted to allow the surveillance to continue, but reportedly, Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair became anxious, especially in its speculation they might be planning a gas attack on London, and the arrests were made earlier this month. The three alleged plotters will appear in the Bow (ph) Street Magistrates Court again Monday morning, and perhaps more information on the alleged plot will emerge then -- Arthel.
NEVILLE: Now of course, it's still early, but I mean, that's certainly a shocking headline to wake up to on Sunday morning. How do you think the community there will take it?
RODGERS: Well, first, Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair tried to prepare the public for this earlier in the week. He was at that point hinting this is the sort of attack Londoners might face. By the way, earlier this week a tape, attributed to Osama bin Laden, an audio tape, also said that Britain would be number one on the al Qaeda target list, if in fact the British sided with the Americans in any forthcoming war with Iraq.
Now, most important thing to remember in all of this is that the British have been dealing with terrorism for years, long before the Americans ever have. They dealt with the IRA. And how the British public will deal with it is that they have been urged to be more vigilant, as you ride the subway to work, as I do, you're going to be looking for suspicious people, suspicious characters, anyone behaving suspiciously. The public is going to be at a heightened sense of alert, although Prime Minister Blair did urge, no particular panic at this point -- Arthel.
NEVILLE: So, will they, will authorities go ahead and deploy more officers in the underground?
RODGERS: Well, when we spoke with the underground, that is the Tube officials earlier today, they suggested they already have 3.5 million people working for them in kind of surveillance. Anyone who rides the Tube has been urged to be especially alert and on the look out for anything of a suspicious nature.
So, they're not deploying more police. Remember, every one of these underground stations has more than a few closed circuit surveillance cameras in there, looking for anything of a suspicious nature, and because of these reports, because of the headlines we've seen in the Sunday papers here in London and around the country, you're going to be seeing people like you, like me, going out tomorrow morning and just watching closely.
NEVILLE: Sure, OK, Walter Rodgers, thank you very much for that report from London.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk a little bit more about this and the war on terror in general. For that, we turn to one of our favorite experts, Kelly McCann, joining us from Washington, as he always does. Good morning, Kelly, good to see you.
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Miles.
O'BRIEN: First of all, try to sift through this one. Preliminary reports coming out, we're still trying to nail down a few details, it certainly wouldn't be unprecedented here if there was an attempt to stage some kind of gas attack on a subway system. Remember '95, Tokyo, the Aum Shinrikyo cult, I think about a dozen people were killed in that attack. How real is this concern do you think?
MCCANN: Well, I think it's a very real concern. If you remember back in May of 2002, there was a truck in Mexico that was stolen that had 10 tons of cyanide on it. When they found the truck abandoned, it had all but three drums of cyanide on it. Not that cyanide is a preferred method, I mean, there's a lot of gases that are easily made -- economical attack, easily transportable, and a low signature delivery.
So, I think it's a very real concern, and it goes to the scrutiny that we're able to bring to bear on the traveling public, people who are in our, in our area, if you will.
O'BRIEN: All right, and I supposed you put subways in the category of soft targets.
MCCANN: Absolutely, if you think about it, I mean, a lot of narcotics traffic happens on our subways and trains, because there are no real -- there is no scrutiny. I mean, there's no magnetometers, there's no ability to look at people's baggage -- so, yes, that's a very soft target.
O'BRIEN: And I suppose it is a an effective way at disseminating something like this.
MCCANN: Sure, because if you -- just as the reporter from London said, if you introduce that substance into that kind of contained environment and then have the normal, you know, passage of air to the ventilation system, I mean, it's an effective tactical method. So, it makes a lot of sense, we should be concerned about it.
O'BRIEN: Let's try to put some pieces together here if we can, maybe we shouldn't connect too many dots, because it is early in some of these things, but starting with the Osama bin Laden tape, and leading up to this moment, you get the sense that there's an increased level of tempo, chatter is the term that folks and intelligence use to give you the sense that there's more activity going out there on the terrorism front. Is that real or is that a perceived notion of ours?
MCCANN: No, I don't think it's perceived at all, I think it's very real. If you think about the man who probably knows more about what is going on right now globally than anybody, George Tenet, as he said four weeks ago, on the Hill, and he's got access to all of the classified information, he believed that attacks were eminent, that we were at risk. Our secretary of defense has never backed away from saying he believed that other attacks were inevitable, nor has Condoleezza Rice.
So, even more than our analysis of looking at globally, the tempo, and what's occurring, the people who are really, truly in the know, are saying those words, and have not backed away -- there's the clearest indication.
O'BRIEN: All right, inject into all of this comments by Senator Daschle -- pretty critical of the administration -- to be fair, what he said was, that the Bush administration used the capture of Osama bin Laden as the criteria for success, by that measure of success, the war on terrorism is a failure.
First of all, would you accept that criteria as a proper measure for success?
MCCANN: No, and I think that he miss -- he is misstating the criteria. The statements were made by the Bush administration that they're goal and objective was to dismantle the al Qaeda network. Yes, it was a secondary or tertiary goal to get Osama bin Laden. However, more importantly it was to disable the network from continuing to operate globally, and I think he was unfair in saying that, and based on what, his long experience with counter terrorism? I don't think so.
O'BRIEN: All right, then give us a sense then, look at the big picture here, as we look at everything from 9/11 to this moment, net, pure bottom line here -- is the U.S. winning this war?
MCCANN: I don't know that you can say winning, I think that, you know, these kind of engagements are dynamic and as we take actions, they take -- they react, and as they take action, we react. So, it's a dynamic situation, but if you look at the chronology, I mean, we just recently performed direct action mission in Yemen, which meant that we had to put four people in a vehicle, in the middle of a lot of sand, and we reached out and touched them.
Next thing that we've done recently, we disabled the Abu Sayyaf network in the Philippines, or at least routed them from their position on the Basilan island, and all of that. We've identified the tri-river (ph) valley region down in Latin America, long known to be a hot bed of activity, and I think there's a lot of scrutiny down there now.
We have forward attacks in Singapore, in Italy, we have captured and detained al Qaeda leadership, so I think to be fair, truly objective and fair, you have to on balance say, well, if you are playing political bad mitten with statistics, sure you can make it look anyway you want, but the fact shows that we are making great strides.
O'BRIEN: Well, the fact is, this is a nation of the fast food drive up window, we want instant gratification don't we?
MCCANN: We're after that hamburger word (ph), you know, eat it, boom, that was great, move on -- unfortunately, the world is changed. You know, if you go to the U.K., for example, you can't find a dumpster in an alley, and you can't find a trash den on the street, because the -- they've had to change their culture, they learned that the IRA could use those to, you know, conceal and disguise bombs.
So, they've made cultural changes that we have not made yet, people have not embraced this -- going into this, we said, all of us would need endurance, and that's what a war like this takes, is you have to hang in there, it doesn't go away, and until we make that mental leap, Miles, I think we're going to be looking for the quick, easy, answer, and there's simply aren't any.
O'BRIEN: Are you optimistic the nation will make that lead?
MCCANN: I'm always optimistic, read your history, we've been through some rough stuff before, we'll get through it.
O'BRIEN: All right, Kelly McCann, good to leave it on that note. Appreciate it, as always. See you a little later.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
