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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Kendall Coffey

Aired November 17, 2002 - 11:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Time now for our legal talk segment with former U.S. Attorney Kendall Coffey.
This week and next there is a broad array of thorny legal issues in several important cases around the country. But, Kendall, we do have some wacky ones today to talk about but some serious implications here. We're talking about, of course, Paul Reubens, formerly known as Peewee Herman, and also Jeffrey Jones, the actor who played the principal on Ferris Bueller. Both of them facing some form of child pornography charges.

Why don't we talk about Paul Reubens first because his attorney is arguing he didn't have child pornography in his possession -- it was artwork or works of art.

KENDALL COFFEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Exactly. He's saying, "Not true. The misdemeanor charge has no foundation. These were just a handful of images amidst an extensive collection of art."

But even if he is acquitted before a jury, when these kind of charges are brought, there's not much presumption of innocence in a court of public opinion.

And for Reubens, who had the indecent exposure conduct years ago, this is something that will seem like a repeat offense even though his attorneys may or may not win it in the courtroom.

LIN: Yeah -- but I'm just wondering in that particular case when you talk about the court of public opinion, every time I hear about pornography it brings me back to what sounds like a cliche now but a ruling that came out of the U.S. Supreme Court so many years ago -- "How do you know when it's pornography? Well, I'll know it when I see it."

Is it clear from these images whether they are works of art and how does the court make that decision?

COFFEY: Well, many times it's up to a jury. But child pornography is seen very differently than just troubling adult weirdness.

The basic assumption is that adults are participating in a very disturbing form of child abuse and exploitation. That's why even a misdemeanor charge has very difficult career implications in terms of someone whose livelihood depends on public popularity and support. LIN: Now Paul Reubens is facing a misdemeanor. Jeffrey Jones, however, is facing a felony count. He is accused of actually photographing -- employing a minor to photograph him for pornographic purposes.

What's the distinction in these cases that makes one a felony and one a misdemeanor?

COFFEY: Well, the key thing is he is alleged to have been involved in hiring a very -- relatively young person to participate in obscene photograph. They've very clear to allege that there is no allegation of physical contact but a felony is very serious not only in terms of potentially greater prison exposure but, if convicted, he could have to register as a sexual offended for the rest of his life.

LIN: Another interesting case -- I think this one coming out of Texas. A woman by the name of Clara Harris is accused or charged in trying to run down her husband and kill him after she apparently caught him at a hotel with another woman.

But it involves a private detective whom she hired. And apparently that detective was there to videotape the husband in any sort of illicit affair. But instead what happened is he videotaped the wife who hired him in the act of trying to run him down.

And now there's some sort of legal dispute also about whether she was even supposed to be there, whether she was going to get a refund of money. What do you make of this case?

COFFEY: A lot of strange points, some of which could produce sympathy for the alleged killer, Clara Harris. But the prosecution calls this murder, which means up to life imprisonment.

While the defense says it was just an accident, it was at best a three-time accident.

So at times in cases of a crime of passion, in a case like this, the defense may at some point look to a lesser plea, which could be manslaughter. That would still mean years away for Clara Harris from her children, who are now three years old, but at least she could have some certainty of coming back at some point maybe in time for middle school or even sixth grade graduation.

LIN: But what really hangs here is the videotape -- right -- that her detective actually shot at the scene?

COFFEY: The videotape, the eyewitnesses, which may include the 16 year old daughter of the victim, who was in the car with Clara Harris throughout the transaction and ultimately the question of, "Is it an accident or is it a jealous rage when someone is run over three times?"

LIN: Right. And it's amazing that she actually took her stepdaughter to the scene and the stepdaughter actually witnessed her father being rundown. A very bizarre case indeed.

COFFEY: It's horrifying.

LIN: Yeah.

COFFEY: But, again, it cuts against the argument that she planned anything in advance. That's the one consolation for her.

It's clearly going to be seen as a crime of passion, a crime of a jealous rage.

LIN: Kendall Coffey, I think we looked through the window of human nature this morning.

COFFEY: Indeed.

LIN: Thank you very much.

COFFEY: It's been a strange morning.

LIN: Yeah -- all right. But watercooler stuff. It will be interesting to talk about it in the days to come. Thanks so much, Kendall -- good to see you.

COFFEY: Thanks, Carol.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 17, 2002 - 11:15   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Time now for our legal talk segment with former U.S. Attorney Kendall Coffey.
This week and next there is a broad array of thorny legal issues in several important cases around the country. But, Kendall, we do have some wacky ones today to talk about but some serious implications here. We're talking about, of course, Paul Reubens, formerly known as Peewee Herman, and also Jeffrey Jones, the actor who played the principal on Ferris Bueller. Both of them facing some form of child pornography charges.

Why don't we talk about Paul Reubens first because his attorney is arguing he didn't have child pornography in his possession -- it was artwork or works of art.

KENDALL COFFEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Exactly. He's saying, "Not true. The misdemeanor charge has no foundation. These were just a handful of images amidst an extensive collection of art."

But even if he is acquitted before a jury, when these kind of charges are brought, there's not much presumption of innocence in a court of public opinion.

And for Reubens, who had the indecent exposure conduct years ago, this is something that will seem like a repeat offense even though his attorneys may or may not win it in the courtroom.

LIN: Yeah -- but I'm just wondering in that particular case when you talk about the court of public opinion, every time I hear about pornography it brings me back to what sounds like a cliche now but a ruling that came out of the U.S. Supreme Court so many years ago -- "How do you know when it's pornography? Well, I'll know it when I see it."

Is it clear from these images whether they are works of art and how does the court make that decision?

COFFEY: Well, many times it's up to a jury. But child pornography is seen very differently than just troubling adult weirdness.

The basic assumption is that adults are participating in a very disturbing form of child abuse and exploitation. That's why even a misdemeanor charge has very difficult career implications in terms of someone whose livelihood depends on public popularity and support. LIN: Now Paul Reubens is facing a misdemeanor. Jeffrey Jones, however, is facing a felony count. He is accused of actually photographing -- employing a minor to photograph him for pornographic purposes.

What's the distinction in these cases that makes one a felony and one a misdemeanor?

COFFEY: Well, the key thing is he is alleged to have been involved in hiring a very -- relatively young person to participate in obscene photograph. They've very clear to allege that there is no allegation of physical contact but a felony is very serious not only in terms of potentially greater prison exposure but, if convicted, he could have to register as a sexual offended for the rest of his life.

LIN: Another interesting case -- I think this one coming out of Texas. A woman by the name of Clara Harris is accused or charged in trying to run down her husband and kill him after she apparently caught him at a hotel with another woman.

But it involves a private detective whom she hired. And apparently that detective was there to videotape the husband in any sort of illicit affair. But instead what happened is he videotaped the wife who hired him in the act of trying to run him down.

And now there's some sort of legal dispute also about whether she was even supposed to be there, whether she was going to get a refund of money. What do you make of this case?

COFFEY: A lot of strange points, some of which could produce sympathy for the alleged killer, Clara Harris. But the prosecution calls this murder, which means up to life imprisonment.

While the defense says it was just an accident, it was at best a three-time accident.

So at times in cases of a crime of passion, in a case like this, the defense may at some point look to a lesser plea, which could be manslaughter. That would still mean years away for Clara Harris from her children, who are now three years old, but at least she could have some certainty of coming back at some point maybe in time for middle school or even sixth grade graduation.

LIN: But what really hangs here is the videotape -- right -- that her detective actually shot at the scene?

COFFEY: The videotape, the eyewitnesses, which may include the 16 year old daughter of the victim, who was in the car with Clara Harris throughout the transaction and ultimately the question of, "Is it an accident or is it a jealous rage when someone is run over three times?"

LIN: Right. And it's amazing that she actually took her stepdaughter to the scene and the stepdaughter actually witnessed her father being rundown. A very bizarre case indeed.

COFFEY: It's horrifying.

LIN: Yeah.

COFFEY: But, again, it cuts against the argument that she planned anything in advance. That's the one consolation for her.

It's clearly going to be seen as a crime of passion, a crime of a jealous rage.

LIN: Kendall Coffey, I think we looked through the window of human nature this morning.

COFFEY: Indeed.

LIN: Thank you very much.

COFFEY: It's been a strange morning.

LIN: Yeah -- all right. But watercooler stuff. It will be interesting to talk about it in the days to come. Thanks so much, Kendall -- good to see you.

COFFEY: Thanks, Carol.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com