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CNN Sunday Morning
Legal Roundtable
Aired November 24, 2002 - 08:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: It is time for our legal briefs this morning. And boy, do we have a full docket.
Joining us from Philadelphia, trial attorney and talk show host Michael Smerconish; and in Cleveland, civil rights attorney Avery Freidman.
Thank you both for being with us this morning.
AVERY FREIDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nice to be here.
CALLAWAY: I wish we had an hour for you guys. I can't believe all of the legal stories that have come out just in the last week alone.
We'll start with what's been developing this morning and late last night with the Saudi money trail and the lawsuit, that trillion dollar lawsuit, which is tied to all of this.
We already know that there were some members of the Saudi royal family named in that lawsuit. Now there's 50 new names added to it. Apparently, the Saudi American Bank somehow connected now to this lawsuit, which is partially owned by Citibank.
How big is this lawsuit going to get, Michael?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, I'll tell you, Catherine, I think what's significant is that this lawsuit be kept in effect. You know, about a month ago you and I had a conversation about this very lawsuit at a time when the Bush Administration was saber-rattling and threatening to try to get involved and have it dismissed.
And I said then, and I maintain today, that that would be a tremendous mistake, because the more facts that are developed, the more that it suggests that there was Saudi involvement, beyond the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers, plus bin Laden, were Saudis.
So this thing needs to continue. People need to get put under oath. Documents need to get produced. Because Americans want to know, are the Saudis our friends or are they our foes?
CALLAWAY: Well, let's look at it from the legal perspective, then, Avery. What could happen in this lawsuit? Will we see this go to the very end? FRIEDMAN: Well, I think there's a likelihood. This is the same theory, by the way, that we used in bankrupting the Ku Klux Klan. You get all the people involved.
Now there are 186 defendants. And by the way it's not a $1 trillion, it's a $15 trillion lawsuit. And Michael's right. We have to get to the facts. We have to find out, trace that line and connection of money.
By the way, Mullah Kshar, who is a defecting Taliban official, is now implicating the intelligence minister of Saudi Arabia. So this is going to get big, and there's a likelihood it could go all the way.
CALLAWAY: You know, Michael, it seems that they're going about this backwards, though. They filed a lawsuit, then they're getting all the facts.
SMERCONISH: Hey, well, wait a minute. I think they had facts and that caused them to file the lawsuit.
But the real question is, you know, where's the administration in this? Catherine, we're talk about private citizens with lawyers in the civil process who are carrying the laboring war (ph).
And I have to tell you something. I hear it from radio listeners every week. They say this is all about oil, these problems in the Middle East. It's not about weapons of mass destruction. And the Bush Administration needs to come to grips with the fact that they have a public relations problem if they don't get involved and say, "We, too, want answers."
CALLAWAY: The FBI is involved in it.
FRIEDMAN: They're not getting involved. In fact, the concern here is if the Bush Administration is going to jump into a federal court and ask the court to dismiss this important case, because it's somehow impacting on national security.
So my fear with the Bush Administration is that they're going to go the wrong way, not that they're going to get involved.
CALLAWAY: All right. We could go for an hour just on that topic alone. Great lawsuit to talk about.
Let's talk, though, quickly about John Lee Malvo, his mother. Of course, Malvo being the teenage suspect in the Washington, D.C., sniper case.
She has been ordered deported to Jamaica. What does this do to this case, if she's deported? Isn't she a likely witness, being the mother of John Lee Malvo?
Let's start with you, Avery.
FRIEDMAN: Well, Una James, who's the mother, is going nowhere. The I.N.S. judge ordered her out of here. It's an order of removal. But what it really means, Catherine, is that they're holding onto her. She's not going anywhere. In fact, she tried to voluntarily leave and I.N.S. said, "No. We're going to hold onto this, and we're going to order you out of here."
What it translates as is they're holding on to her.
CALLAWAY: She fought it and then she said, "I'll go."
FRIEDMAN: She's not going anywhere.
CALLAWAY: What do you think, Michael?
SMERCONISH: Too little too late. I mean, the bottom line is that Malvo and Malvo's mom are here illegally.
They came onto the I.N.S. radar screen in December of '01. As a matter of fact, they were detained. They should have been booted then.
Who knows if we'd be in the predicament that we are today with 14 people dead if they'd have been thrown out at that time.
CALLAWAY: Less serious subject, but certainly getting a lot of media attention is this McDonald's Corporation now trying to kill this controversial lawsuit that blames McDonald's for youth obesity.
Now this isn't the only lawsuit we've seen like this, but this one's going pretty far, isn't it Avery?
FRIEDMAN: Actually, I love this case. This is exactly what the fast food industry is doing today, what the tobacco industry did 30 years ago. They're saying, "Look, this isn't a problem."
The fact is that obesity and related issues is the number one American health problem when it comes to children today.
So as Michael talked about the Saudi case, this is a case where we want to do discovery. We want to get the facts. I think this is a precedent-setting and important case.
CALLAWAY: Michael, what do you think?
SMERCONISH: Well, now, wait a minute, Avery. My first job was with McDonald's, so I may be a little bit biased in favor of the golden arches. However, people need to learn to push away from the table. That food is not good for you if you eat too much of it.
FRIEDMAN: You're an apologist for McDonald's.
CALLAWAY: They're not force-feeding kids Chicken McNuggets, though. I mean...
SMERCONISH: Hey, nobody goes into Mickey D's to eat the McSalad. I mean, let's get real. We're all there for those fries. Don't eat so many. FRIEDMAN: Ninety percent of the advertising on Saturday is for fast food for the kids.
CALLAWAY: Well, let me ask you: Is this a legitimate lawsuit, Michael? Are they -- what's going to happen? Can they be held liable for this?
SMERCONISH: No. This gets tossed.
CALLAWAY: All right. What do you think, Avery?
FRIEDMAN: This is a great federal judge, Robert Sweet, New York City. I think the case survives.
CALLAWAY: Oh really?
FRIEDMAN: Yes.
CALLAWAY: It will be interesting. We'll to have you back on if it doesn't.
We've got to talk about this royal case. Not the Saudi royal family, but Princess Ann now becoming the first British royal convicted of a criminal offense in, what, 350 years?
This all has to do with her pet, her dogs, who actually bit a couple of children, I believe.
FRIEDMAN: Right.
CALLAWAY: You don't actually see too many royals in court, do you?
FRIEDMAN: The last time we saw a royal in court, I think, was Charles I, and they beheaded him. So I think actually she's in pretty good shape, given the context of what's happened to her.
CALLAWAY: Well, you know, we shouldn't laugh, because any time children are involved and children who were injured, because they were apparently bitten. The two children were bitten by her dogs.
FRIEDMAN: And she had to pay for it.
CALLAWAY: Right. Seven-hundred-and-ninety dollars?
FRIEDMAN: Well, the total was about the equivalent of $2,500.
CALLAWAY: Really?
FRIEDMAN: That's a significant sting.
CALLAWAY: Michael, do you think she should have been given that six months in jail?
SMERCONISH: Well, no, but you know, the funny thing to me is she actually brought in a dog shrink, and the dog shrink had to testify that, "No, this dog is all right. We shouldn't put this dog down."
I mean, the Windsors cannot catch a break in this year. That's the amazing part. Maybe the butler's involved. I don't know.
CALLAWAY: All right. The butler is involved in everything, apparently.
And the last story that Renay says we have to talk about this morning is the Michael Jackson story.
FRIEDMAN: Yes.
CALLAWAY: He's really upset about this.
And it is some frightening video that we've seen of Michael holding his infant in Germany over a balcony. What can be done, if anything, Michael? People are so upset about this. What could happen in the legal department?
SMERCONISH: It's hard for me to give a legal -- I mean, look, Jacko is a wacko. If you believe that he conceived that kid naturally, then I've got a bridge here in Philadelphia that I would like to sell you.
Is he a bad parent? I mean, I don't know. Look at the videotape and decide for yourself. I wouldn't have any kids near him, especially my own.
CALLAWAY: All right. Avery, what about the legal side of this?
FRIEDMAN: Bottom line is six syllables: child endangerment. If the German officials couldn't figure it out, let me tell you something, when he comes back here, the American officials, at least the Child Protective Services, is going to take a look at this one.
CALLAWAY: Well, you two have been a delight this morning. I wish we had more time.
Avery Friedman, Michael Smerconish, have a great holiday.
SMERCONISH: You, too.
FRIEDMAN: You, too.
CALLAWAY: Bye-bye then.
FRIEDMAN: Take care.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 24, 2002 - 08:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: It is time for our legal briefs this morning. And boy, do we have a full docket.
Joining us from Philadelphia, trial attorney and talk show host Michael Smerconish; and in Cleveland, civil rights attorney Avery Freidman.
Thank you both for being with us this morning.
AVERY FREIDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nice to be here.
CALLAWAY: I wish we had an hour for you guys. I can't believe all of the legal stories that have come out just in the last week alone.
We'll start with what's been developing this morning and late last night with the Saudi money trail and the lawsuit, that trillion dollar lawsuit, which is tied to all of this.
We already know that there were some members of the Saudi royal family named in that lawsuit. Now there's 50 new names added to it. Apparently, the Saudi American Bank somehow connected now to this lawsuit, which is partially owned by Citibank.
How big is this lawsuit going to get, Michael?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, I'll tell you, Catherine, I think what's significant is that this lawsuit be kept in effect. You know, about a month ago you and I had a conversation about this very lawsuit at a time when the Bush Administration was saber-rattling and threatening to try to get involved and have it dismissed.
And I said then, and I maintain today, that that would be a tremendous mistake, because the more facts that are developed, the more that it suggests that there was Saudi involvement, beyond the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers, plus bin Laden, were Saudis.
So this thing needs to continue. People need to get put under oath. Documents need to get produced. Because Americans want to know, are the Saudis our friends or are they our foes?
CALLAWAY: Well, let's look at it from the legal perspective, then, Avery. What could happen in this lawsuit? Will we see this go to the very end? FRIEDMAN: Well, I think there's a likelihood. This is the same theory, by the way, that we used in bankrupting the Ku Klux Klan. You get all the people involved.
Now there are 186 defendants. And by the way it's not a $1 trillion, it's a $15 trillion lawsuit. And Michael's right. We have to get to the facts. We have to find out, trace that line and connection of money.
By the way, Mullah Kshar, who is a defecting Taliban official, is now implicating the intelligence minister of Saudi Arabia. So this is going to get big, and there's a likelihood it could go all the way.
CALLAWAY: You know, Michael, it seems that they're going about this backwards, though. They filed a lawsuit, then they're getting all the facts.
SMERCONISH: Hey, well, wait a minute. I think they had facts and that caused them to file the lawsuit.
But the real question is, you know, where's the administration in this? Catherine, we're talk about private citizens with lawyers in the civil process who are carrying the laboring war (ph).
And I have to tell you something. I hear it from radio listeners every week. They say this is all about oil, these problems in the Middle East. It's not about weapons of mass destruction. And the Bush Administration needs to come to grips with the fact that they have a public relations problem if they don't get involved and say, "We, too, want answers."
CALLAWAY: The FBI is involved in it.
FRIEDMAN: They're not getting involved. In fact, the concern here is if the Bush Administration is going to jump into a federal court and ask the court to dismiss this important case, because it's somehow impacting on national security.
So my fear with the Bush Administration is that they're going to go the wrong way, not that they're going to get involved.
CALLAWAY: All right. We could go for an hour just on that topic alone. Great lawsuit to talk about.
Let's talk, though, quickly about John Lee Malvo, his mother. Of course, Malvo being the teenage suspect in the Washington, D.C., sniper case.
She has been ordered deported to Jamaica. What does this do to this case, if she's deported? Isn't she a likely witness, being the mother of John Lee Malvo?
Let's start with you, Avery.
FRIEDMAN: Well, Una James, who's the mother, is going nowhere. The I.N.S. judge ordered her out of here. It's an order of removal. But what it really means, Catherine, is that they're holding onto her. She's not going anywhere. In fact, she tried to voluntarily leave and I.N.S. said, "No. We're going to hold onto this, and we're going to order you out of here."
What it translates as is they're holding on to her.
CALLAWAY: She fought it and then she said, "I'll go."
FRIEDMAN: She's not going anywhere.
CALLAWAY: What do you think, Michael?
SMERCONISH: Too little too late. I mean, the bottom line is that Malvo and Malvo's mom are here illegally.
They came onto the I.N.S. radar screen in December of '01. As a matter of fact, they were detained. They should have been booted then.
Who knows if we'd be in the predicament that we are today with 14 people dead if they'd have been thrown out at that time.
CALLAWAY: Less serious subject, but certainly getting a lot of media attention is this McDonald's Corporation now trying to kill this controversial lawsuit that blames McDonald's for youth obesity.
Now this isn't the only lawsuit we've seen like this, but this one's going pretty far, isn't it Avery?
FRIEDMAN: Actually, I love this case. This is exactly what the fast food industry is doing today, what the tobacco industry did 30 years ago. They're saying, "Look, this isn't a problem."
The fact is that obesity and related issues is the number one American health problem when it comes to children today.
So as Michael talked about the Saudi case, this is a case where we want to do discovery. We want to get the facts. I think this is a precedent-setting and important case.
CALLAWAY: Michael, what do you think?
SMERCONISH: Well, now, wait a minute, Avery. My first job was with McDonald's, so I may be a little bit biased in favor of the golden arches. However, people need to learn to push away from the table. That food is not good for you if you eat too much of it.
FRIEDMAN: You're an apologist for McDonald's.
CALLAWAY: They're not force-feeding kids Chicken McNuggets, though. I mean...
SMERCONISH: Hey, nobody goes into Mickey D's to eat the McSalad. I mean, let's get real. We're all there for those fries. Don't eat so many. FRIEDMAN: Ninety percent of the advertising on Saturday is for fast food for the kids.
CALLAWAY: Well, let me ask you: Is this a legitimate lawsuit, Michael? Are they -- what's going to happen? Can they be held liable for this?
SMERCONISH: No. This gets tossed.
CALLAWAY: All right. What do you think, Avery?
FRIEDMAN: This is a great federal judge, Robert Sweet, New York City. I think the case survives.
CALLAWAY: Oh really?
FRIEDMAN: Yes.
CALLAWAY: It will be interesting. We'll to have you back on if it doesn't.
We've got to talk about this royal case. Not the Saudi royal family, but Princess Ann now becoming the first British royal convicted of a criminal offense in, what, 350 years?
This all has to do with her pet, her dogs, who actually bit a couple of children, I believe.
FRIEDMAN: Right.
CALLAWAY: You don't actually see too many royals in court, do you?
FRIEDMAN: The last time we saw a royal in court, I think, was Charles I, and they beheaded him. So I think actually she's in pretty good shape, given the context of what's happened to her.
CALLAWAY: Well, you know, we shouldn't laugh, because any time children are involved and children who were injured, because they were apparently bitten. The two children were bitten by her dogs.
FRIEDMAN: And she had to pay for it.
CALLAWAY: Right. Seven-hundred-and-ninety dollars?
FRIEDMAN: Well, the total was about the equivalent of $2,500.
CALLAWAY: Really?
FRIEDMAN: That's a significant sting.
CALLAWAY: Michael, do you think she should have been given that six months in jail?
SMERCONISH: Well, no, but you know, the funny thing to me is she actually brought in a dog shrink, and the dog shrink had to testify that, "No, this dog is all right. We shouldn't put this dog down."
I mean, the Windsors cannot catch a break in this year. That's the amazing part. Maybe the butler's involved. I don't know.
CALLAWAY: All right. The butler is involved in everything, apparently.
And the last story that Renay says we have to talk about this morning is the Michael Jackson story.
FRIEDMAN: Yes.
CALLAWAY: He's really upset about this.
And it is some frightening video that we've seen of Michael holding his infant in Germany over a balcony. What can be done, if anything, Michael? People are so upset about this. What could happen in the legal department?
SMERCONISH: It's hard for me to give a legal -- I mean, look, Jacko is a wacko. If you believe that he conceived that kid naturally, then I've got a bridge here in Philadelphia that I would like to sell you.
Is he a bad parent? I mean, I don't know. Look at the videotape and decide for yourself. I wouldn't have any kids near him, especially my own.
CALLAWAY: All right. Avery, what about the legal side of this?
FRIEDMAN: Bottom line is six syllables: child endangerment. If the German officials couldn't figure it out, let me tell you something, when he comes back here, the American officials, at least the Child Protective Services, is going to take a look at this one.
CALLAWAY: Well, you two have been a delight this morning. I wish we had more time.
Avery Friedman, Michael Smerconish, have a great holiday.
SMERCONISH: You, too.
FRIEDMAN: You, too.
CALLAWAY: Bye-bye then.
FRIEDMAN: Take care.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
