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CNN Sunday Morning
Can U.S. Protect Aircraft From Shoulder-Launched Missile Attacks?
Aired December 01, 2002 - 07:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: CNN security analyst Kelly McCann is joining us this morning to talk a little bit about some of the security concerns now in East Africa, but first let me, Kelly, ask you about what we just reported about, the Iraqi air defense facilities being hit. We've heard this a lot, they fire at the allied planes, the allied planes drop a bomb on one of these defense facilities -- what exactly do we -- do they mean by defense facility?
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, interesting to note that this is going on at all, while the inspectors in the country, number one.
CALLAWAY: Indeed.
MCCANN: I think that's of note, but we know that, of course, Saddam Hussein is pretty masterful at deception, and his co-mingling of weapons systems and industry targets isn't a surprise to anyone, I don't think, and we're also very interested in making sure that they light up these potential targets if we do have to go to war.
So, I don't think that this is surprising, certainly wasn't an unprovoked bombing.
CALLAWAY: Yes, that's true, but when we say, defense facilities, what are they, that are they talking about?
MCCANN: Well, air defense facilities could be anything from a single site out in the middle of the desert, or it could be a pretty established site with revetments designed to protect that the Iraqis believe is integral to their, you know, security, or to their industry.
So, it's a wide range, when you say defense facilities, it could be a significant, or a relatively mobile and not hardened target.
CALLAWAY: Kelly, we had talked about in the last couple of days when this story broke in Kenya about what kind of reaction U.S. would have on this, and indeed now, they have given a warning for Americans throughout that East African region, but is this enough?
MCCANN: I think it is, I mean, since 1993 we can track all the way back to 1993, that the original cell with Mohamed Atef, and Osama bin Laden, you know, were operating in East Africa.
So, then we had of course, the bombings in 1998, and we also know that it's easy to track from Saudi Arabia to Yemen. It's only 20 miles from Yemen across to Djibouti, and then Djibouti, of course, borders Somalia. So, there is an -- a main route there for all kinds of things, for goods, for people, et cetera. So, I don't think that this is especially significant, other than against this backdrop.
CALLAWAY: U.S. Transportation Security Administration now informing the U.S. airports to be on the lookout -- be more aware, I guess, since the missiles were fired at the Iraqi chartered aircraft. We -- also, Kelly, you just said the other day that this was a real concern, but yet nothing has been done. Is this really a step, to just say, be aware?
MCCANN: Well, I think it's a step, Catherine, to make people understand that they're going to have to push a security buffer outward. In other words, with these kind of man pads, if you're near the vicinity of a runway, and you have a clear line of sight so that you can initially identify your target and start to engage, then that's enough, and then basically once the missiles left the tube, you can depart the area. So, I think that security patrols in those areas, being more aware of people who might be in those woods where normally would not be is enough right now, given the precedence that this has not happened here in the United States.
CALLAWAY: Kelly, let's back track a little bit and look at some of the warnings that the U.S. had apparently received of possible U.S. interests being in danger in the Mombasa. If we could look back on that; we'll just back track a little bit by just starting with Australia had said that there had been some concern raised, and of course, no specifics, but how does the U.S. know when these threats are credible?
MCCANN: Well, it goes to the corroboration of separate or disseparate sources. In other words, if you have just a single source of information, you -- that's not just intelligence, you can't go to the bank with that.
CALLAWAY: Right.
MCCANN: When you start to corroborate it with other sources that come from other means, in other words, signals intelligence and human intelligence, and human intelligence, and communications intelligence -- you start to get a more defined picture.
The trouble is that the back seat driving that occurs, where people said, jeez, why didn't you connect the dots? If I asked you to predict next week, what would be the top story, you'd be at a loss to do it, and I mean, that's what we're asking the intelligence professionals to do.
So, we've got to push to the next level. I mean, this is a serious game for players who are going to have endurance in it, and I think sometimes the intelligence community is unfairly reviewed.
CALLAWAY: What was Australia's role in this?
MCCANN: Well, Australia, you know, is in the region, and of course, you know, it is a softer target. If you look at Bali, they've made statements that, you know, they're going to be doing attacks against softer targets, because they want us to, kind of, chase the tail, if you will. When you harden a target, it's obvious, path of least resistance, they'll go there.
The Australians, they're not a predominately Muslim country. As far as their international role, you know, who knows, or who could determine what they have -- could have -- possibly done to distinguish themselves as a role, in, say, the Arab-Israeli conflict; probably none. But, that's the problem -- the problem is trying get inside these men's mind, and try to predict what they're going to target next is a very difficult thing, and in the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of information, or certainly intelligence...
CALLAWAY: Yes.
MCCANN: ... you're kind of shooting in the dark.
CALLAWAY: Do you think the Homeland Security Department is going to be able to tie these countries together, so that they can have sort of more of a direct line to each other when these threats come in?
MCCANN: Kris brought up a good point yesterday, when we did the shows, Catherine, and what that was, was that; are they going to get information or intelligence, and that's key, because that department is supposed to have the accountability, they are supposed to be accountable for connecting the dots. If they're handed intelligence, then obviously the bail-out is simple, which is what we didn't call that intelligence. If we had seen the information, then perhaps we could have collated it differently and decided, yes, this was 'X'.
So, I think that there some critical infrastructure things to that department that have to be decided first, before we can determine what exactly their accountable role in this is going to be.
CALLAWAY: It does seem -- appear -- it may not be accurate, but it does appear, that the U.S. is not really concerned about this next -- what appears to be next level of terrorism with these missiles being fired at aircraft. Is it a real threat to U.S. -- to U.S. airways?
MCCANN: Attacks are only limited by the imagination of the attacker. I mean, literally, you can think of, you know, it's enumerable kinds of attacks, and I think that they're very wary of the boy who cried wolf, and I -- they don't want to come out with a hard warning, unless they have serious intelligence, because people quite frankly, are getting kind of tired of it.
So, I think that they are erring on the side of caution, and they are probably, offline, telling the FAA and other kinds of officials are going down to the airport managers -- listen, we think this could be happening, keep an eye.
CALLAWAY: Yes, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors, do we?
MCCANN: Exactly.
CALLAWAY: All right, thank you, Kelly. That's Kelly McCann, thanks for being with us this morning.
MCCANN: You bet.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Attacks?>
Aired December 1, 2002 - 07:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: CNN security analyst Kelly McCann is joining us this morning to talk a little bit about some of the security concerns now in East Africa, but first let me, Kelly, ask you about what we just reported about, the Iraqi air defense facilities being hit. We've heard this a lot, they fire at the allied planes, the allied planes drop a bomb on one of these defense facilities -- what exactly do we -- do they mean by defense facility?
KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, interesting to note that this is going on at all, while the inspectors in the country, number one.
CALLAWAY: Indeed.
MCCANN: I think that's of note, but we know that, of course, Saddam Hussein is pretty masterful at deception, and his co-mingling of weapons systems and industry targets isn't a surprise to anyone, I don't think, and we're also very interested in making sure that they light up these potential targets if we do have to go to war.
So, I don't think that this is surprising, certainly wasn't an unprovoked bombing.
CALLAWAY: Yes, that's true, but when we say, defense facilities, what are they, that are they talking about?
MCCANN: Well, air defense facilities could be anything from a single site out in the middle of the desert, or it could be a pretty established site with revetments designed to protect that the Iraqis believe is integral to their, you know, security, or to their industry.
So, it's a wide range, when you say defense facilities, it could be a significant, or a relatively mobile and not hardened target.
CALLAWAY: Kelly, we had talked about in the last couple of days when this story broke in Kenya about what kind of reaction U.S. would have on this, and indeed now, they have given a warning for Americans throughout that East African region, but is this enough?
MCCANN: I think it is, I mean, since 1993 we can track all the way back to 1993, that the original cell with Mohamed Atef, and Osama bin Laden, you know, were operating in East Africa.
So, then we had of course, the bombings in 1998, and we also know that it's easy to track from Saudi Arabia to Yemen. It's only 20 miles from Yemen across to Djibouti, and then Djibouti, of course, borders Somalia. So, there is an -- a main route there for all kinds of things, for goods, for people, et cetera. So, I don't think that this is especially significant, other than against this backdrop.
CALLAWAY: U.S. Transportation Security Administration now informing the U.S. airports to be on the lookout -- be more aware, I guess, since the missiles were fired at the Iraqi chartered aircraft. We -- also, Kelly, you just said the other day that this was a real concern, but yet nothing has been done. Is this really a step, to just say, be aware?
MCCANN: Well, I think it's a step, Catherine, to make people understand that they're going to have to push a security buffer outward. In other words, with these kind of man pads, if you're near the vicinity of a runway, and you have a clear line of sight so that you can initially identify your target and start to engage, then that's enough, and then basically once the missiles left the tube, you can depart the area. So, I think that security patrols in those areas, being more aware of people who might be in those woods where normally would not be is enough right now, given the precedence that this has not happened here in the United States.
CALLAWAY: Kelly, let's back track a little bit and look at some of the warnings that the U.S. had apparently received of possible U.S. interests being in danger in the Mombasa. If we could look back on that; we'll just back track a little bit by just starting with Australia had said that there had been some concern raised, and of course, no specifics, but how does the U.S. know when these threats are credible?
MCCANN: Well, it goes to the corroboration of separate or disseparate sources. In other words, if you have just a single source of information, you -- that's not just intelligence, you can't go to the bank with that.
CALLAWAY: Right.
MCCANN: When you start to corroborate it with other sources that come from other means, in other words, signals intelligence and human intelligence, and human intelligence, and communications intelligence -- you start to get a more defined picture.
The trouble is that the back seat driving that occurs, where people said, jeez, why didn't you connect the dots? If I asked you to predict next week, what would be the top story, you'd be at a loss to do it, and I mean, that's what we're asking the intelligence professionals to do.
So, we've got to push to the next level. I mean, this is a serious game for players who are going to have endurance in it, and I think sometimes the intelligence community is unfairly reviewed.
CALLAWAY: What was Australia's role in this?
MCCANN: Well, Australia, you know, is in the region, and of course, you know, it is a softer target. If you look at Bali, they've made statements that, you know, they're going to be doing attacks against softer targets, because they want us to, kind of, chase the tail, if you will. When you harden a target, it's obvious, path of least resistance, they'll go there.
The Australians, they're not a predominately Muslim country. As far as their international role, you know, who knows, or who could determine what they have -- could have -- possibly done to distinguish themselves as a role, in, say, the Arab-Israeli conflict; probably none. But, that's the problem -- the problem is trying get inside these men's mind, and try to predict what they're going to target next is a very difficult thing, and in the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of information, or certainly intelligence...
CALLAWAY: Yes.
MCCANN: ... you're kind of shooting in the dark.
CALLAWAY: Do you think the Homeland Security Department is going to be able to tie these countries together, so that they can have sort of more of a direct line to each other when these threats come in?
MCCANN: Kris brought up a good point yesterday, when we did the shows, Catherine, and what that was, was that; are they going to get information or intelligence, and that's key, because that department is supposed to have the accountability, they are supposed to be accountable for connecting the dots. If they're handed intelligence, then obviously the bail-out is simple, which is what we didn't call that intelligence. If we had seen the information, then perhaps we could have collated it differently and decided, yes, this was 'X'.
So, I think that there some critical infrastructure things to that department that have to be decided first, before we can determine what exactly their accountable role in this is going to be.
CALLAWAY: It does seem -- appear -- it may not be accurate, but it does appear, that the U.S. is not really concerned about this next -- what appears to be next level of terrorism with these missiles being fired at aircraft. Is it a real threat to U.S. -- to U.S. airways?
MCCANN: Attacks are only limited by the imagination of the attacker. I mean, literally, you can think of, you know, it's enumerable kinds of attacks, and I think that they're very wary of the boy who cried wolf, and I -- they don't want to come out with a hard warning, unless they have serious intelligence, because people quite frankly, are getting kind of tired of it.
So, I think that they are erring on the side of caution, and they are probably, offline, telling the FAA and other kinds of officials are going down to the airport managers -- listen, we think this could be happening, keep an eye.
CALLAWAY: Yes, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors, do we?
MCCANN: Exactly.
CALLAWAY: All right, thank you, Kelly. That's Kelly McCann, thanks for being with us this morning.
MCCANN: You bet.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Attacks?>
