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CNN Sunday Morning

Inside Northern Iraq: Story of Iraqi Assassin

Aired December 01, 2002 - 07:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: All week, we've been doing a series of reports inside northern Iraq. And our Brent Sadler has an exclusive look inside Kurdish territory. Today, the story of a confessed Iraqi assassin with alleged ties to al Qaeda.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Entry to a top security jail in northern Iraq, a lock up for dangerous men with shocking pasts. This is a confessed assassin, an Iranian born Arab who claims he was working for Baghdad and claims at the same time he was also involved with al Qaeda's terror network in Afghanistan.

"I was engaged with al Qaeda," said Muhammad Shahab, "trading weapons and selling drugs between Iran and Kandahar." He also claims to have separately funneled weapons from Iraq to Osama bin Laden. Caught on his way to Baghdad, say investigators here, more than two years ago, carrying damning evidence of murder, a roll of film proving he had a bloody hand in this killing of an unidentified victim, probably Iranian, one of many, he boasts.

"Killings were done on the orders of the Iraqi intelligence," he says, "and mostly in Iran. While there's no corroborating evidence in these files linking Baghdad to al Qaeda, investigators say they're certain Muhammad Shahab was an Iraqi hitman, and that his other claims are feasible. But the Kurds have openly set their sites on regime change in Baghdad and are keen to use those unsubstantiated intelligence reports to support the case.

They are training for battle as potential U.S. allies in a possible war on two fronts against Saddam Hussein's regime in Baghdad and what's described here as an al Qaeda style terror network on their side of the border with Iran.

A network which recently ordered 19-year old Dedar Muhammad to blow himself up, using this explosives packed vest and belt to kill secular Kurdish opponents. The orders came, says Muhammad, from an extreme Kurdish Islamic group with suspected links to al Qaeda. He tells me an Afghan trained suicide bombmaker fitted him out.

"He opened a suitcase. Four or five of these bomb set were inside," he says. "It was like setting a mine. I just had to press the button."

But Muhammad backed out at the very last second, sparing the lives of many. A warning that other Iraqi Kurdish suicide bombers may be on their way.

Brent Sadler, CNN, Solamania (ph), northern Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CALLAWAY: And Brent is joining us now from Beirut to talk more about his experiences in northern Iraq. Brent, thanks for being with us. Incredible report. I was somewhat surprised at how open in boastful these prisoners were to you. Were you?

SADLER: Absolutely, Catherine. But remind yourself also the same time that the Kurdish political parties, the PUK, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, very keen to get out this alleged linkage between the authorities in Baghdad under Saddam Hussein and this fundamentalist Islamic group close to the Iranian border there, called Amstar al Islam. So the fact we could get inside the prison, yes, that was interesting. Also very interesting, the fact that these men, both now serving long prison sentences, are willing to talk to Westerners.

We also understand from Kurdish political sources that U.S. intelligence agents have already extensively talked to these two men over the past few weeks.

Catherine?

CALLAWAY: And Brent, as you said, certainly the Kurdish sources there, you know, eager to join allied forces in the fight against Baghdad, but nonetheless, what these gentlemen have told you, has it been substantiated? Is this the first time that we've seen this direct link between al Qaeda and the Iraqi regime.

SADLER: It's the first time we've had real people who've been interrogated by the Kurds themselves. And we understand from U.S. intelligence agents, giving information, compiling a dossier, which our CNN camera was able to take photographs of, and that incredible roll of picture showing that unfortunate victim killed by that man who is in jail in northern Iraq, who says quite openly to me off camera that he obviously realizes he's a dead man. If the Iraqi intelligence agent gets hold of him, he reckons to do at least another six or seven years in that Kurdish jail, but knows that he's crossed the line as far as his former master was concerned...

CALLAWAY: Yes.

SADLER: ...and those that he runs the risk of losing his life. Catherine?

CALLAWAY: That's what I was -- my next question to you was why would they risk their lives, revealing all of this information? Because clearly, the arms of Saddam Hussein are very long.

SADLER: Well, they figure and they know they're dead meat if the Iraqis catch them, but at the same time, they're also trying to benefit from U.S. involvement, U.S. support, Kurdish support or possible U.S. military led action against Iraq. So they're hoping to curry favor with the Kurds quite clearly.

CALLAWAY: Right.

SADLER: And the United States in the hope that they'll be protected.

CALLAWAY: And it -- would not the allied forces want that cooperation from the Kurds?

SADLER: Certainly in terms of what the U.S. might have in store for Iraq's president Saddam Hussein is going to have some degree of support, possibly direct support, but certainly coordination with the Kurds, some 70,000 Kurdish troops in the north are well armed and trained after almost 11 years of virtual self rule after Gulf War I. So these Kurds are going to be very much a part of what happens in Iraq in the future.

CALLAWAY: Brent, one of the many important things that you reported in your piece was one -- Muhammad saying that in his engagements with al Qaeda, that he was trading weapons and selling drugs between Iran and Kandahar? Is this something new?

SADLER: It's very much being reported in the region that there is this connectivity if you like...

CALLAWAY: Right.

SADLER: ...between gun running, drug running, and political leverage from Iran to try and have a hand in northern Iraq before and after possibly Saddam Hussein, and also Iraq trying to use Islamic fundamentalist groups to destabilize the Kurds, a potential ally of the United States in any action against Saddam Hussein.

CALLAWAY: How real is the Kurdish Islamic extremist threat there in northern Iraq?

SADLER: Well, certainly, it's thought to run into the perhaps 40 or 50 al Qaeda members. We don't know how seamier they might be, but certainly U.S. intelligence officials are aware of al Qaeda in northern Iraq. Donald Rumsfeld, the U.S. Defense Secretary referred to it back in August. So they're known to be there, but at the moment, no one is taking any direct action against them.

They're close to the Iranian border. They've enjoyed some support by Iran, but reports coming from the Kurdish controlled part -- that are surrounding these Atlantic groups, that they may take action before any possible U.S. action against Iraq as a whole. But this is going to be a very acute and important question of timing.

For now, they pose a threat, assassinations, bomb plots, and so forth, and gun and drug running. So a problem that someone's going to have to deal with, they say, sooner or later.

CALLAWAY: Another startling revelation that you made in your report, also Brent, Muhammad's claim that he separately funneled weapons from Iraq to Saddam to Osama bin Laden, rather. Were you able to find any other links, other than his statement in the reports that you went through?

SADLER: What we're hearing is not only what the prisoner told us, but also, what Kurdish intelligence agents have told us throughout the country in both the main political party groups, the PUK as I mentioned before and the KDP, the Kurdistan Democrat Party. They are convinced, absolutely convinced. And they're told U.S. intelligence authorities that there is definitely a hub of al Qaeda there. They are definitely posing a threat, and that they are part of the deposed Taliban regime, if you like, under the controlled orders of Osama bin Laden before and that they are a threat that needs to be taken care of, preferably with U.S. support.

CALLAWAY: Brent Sadler, incredible job. Thank you so much for bringing that to us. Brent Sadler in northern Iraq.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired December 1, 2002 - 07:34   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: All week, we've been doing a series of reports inside northern Iraq. And our Brent Sadler has an exclusive look inside Kurdish territory. Today, the story of a confessed Iraqi assassin with alleged ties to al Qaeda.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Entry to a top security jail in northern Iraq, a lock up for dangerous men with shocking pasts. This is a confessed assassin, an Iranian born Arab who claims he was working for Baghdad and claims at the same time he was also involved with al Qaeda's terror network in Afghanistan.

"I was engaged with al Qaeda," said Muhammad Shahab, "trading weapons and selling drugs between Iran and Kandahar." He also claims to have separately funneled weapons from Iraq to Osama bin Laden. Caught on his way to Baghdad, say investigators here, more than two years ago, carrying damning evidence of murder, a roll of film proving he had a bloody hand in this killing of an unidentified victim, probably Iranian, one of many, he boasts.

"Killings were done on the orders of the Iraqi intelligence," he says, "and mostly in Iran. While there's no corroborating evidence in these files linking Baghdad to al Qaeda, investigators say they're certain Muhammad Shahab was an Iraqi hitman, and that his other claims are feasible. But the Kurds have openly set their sites on regime change in Baghdad and are keen to use those unsubstantiated intelligence reports to support the case.

They are training for battle as potential U.S. allies in a possible war on two fronts against Saddam Hussein's regime in Baghdad and what's described here as an al Qaeda style terror network on their side of the border with Iran.

A network which recently ordered 19-year old Dedar Muhammad to blow himself up, using this explosives packed vest and belt to kill secular Kurdish opponents. The orders came, says Muhammad, from an extreme Kurdish Islamic group with suspected links to al Qaeda. He tells me an Afghan trained suicide bombmaker fitted him out.

"He opened a suitcase. Four or five of these bomb set were inside," he says. "It was like setting a mine. I just had to press the button."

But Muhammad backed out at the very last second, sparing the lives of many. A warning that other Iraqi Kurdish suicide bombers may be on their way.

Brent Sadler, CNN, Solamania (ph), northern Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CALLAWAY: And Brent is joining us now from Beirut to talk more about his experiences in northern Iraq. Brent, thanks for being with us. Incredible report. I was somewhat surprised at how open in boastful these prisoners were to you. Were you?

SADLER: Absolutely, Catherine. But remind yourself also the same time that the Kurdish political parties, the PUK, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, very keen to get out this alleged linkage between the authorities in Baghdad under Saddam Hussein and this fundamentalist Islamic group close to the Iranian border there, called Amstar al Islam. So the fact we could get inside the prison, yes, that was interesting. Also very interesting, the fact that these men, both now serving long prison sentences, are willing to talk to Westerners.

We also understand from Kurdish political sources that U.S. intelligence agents have already extensively talked to these two men over the past few weeks.

Catherine?

CALLAWAY: And Brent, as you said, certainly the Kurdish sources there, you know, eager to join allied forces in the fight against Baghdad, but nonetheless, what these gentlemen have told you, has it been substantiated? Is this the first time that we've seen this direct link between al Qaeda and the Iraqi regime.

SADLER: It's the first time we've had real people who've been interrogated by the Kurds themselves. And we understand from U.S. intelligence agents, giving information, compiling a dossier, which our CNN camera was able to take photographs of, and that incredible roll of picture showing that unfortunate victim killed by that man who is in jail in northern Iraq, who says quite openly to me off camera that he obviously realizes he's a dead man. If the Iraqi intelligence agent gets hold of him, he reckons to do at least another six or seven years in that Kurdish jail, but knows that he's crossed the line as far as his former master was concerned...

CALLAWAY: Yes.

SADLER: ...and those that he runs the risk of losing his life. Catherine?

CALLAWAY: That's what I was -- my next question to you was why would they risk their lives, revealing all of this information? Because clearly, the arms of Saddam Hussein are very long.

SADLER: Well, they figure and they know they're dead meat if the Iraqis catch them, but at the same time, they're also trying to benefit from U.S. involvement, U.S. support, Kurdish support or possible U.S. military led action against Iraq. So they're hoping to curry favor with the Kurds quite clearly.

CALLAWAY: Right.

SADLER: And the United States in the hope that they'll be protected.

CALLAWAY: And it -- would not the allied forces want that cooperation from the Kurds?

SADLER: Certainly in terms of what the U.S. might have in store for Iraq's president Saddam Hussein is going to have some degree of support, possibly direct support, but certainly coordination with the Kurds, some 70,000 Kurdish troops in the north are well armed and trained after almost 11 years of virtual self rule after Gulf War I. So these Kurds are going to be very much a part of what happens in Iraq in the future.

CALLAWAY: Brent, one of the many important things that you reported in your piece was one -- Muhammad saying that in his engagements with al Qaeda, that he was trading weapons and selling drugs between Iran and Kandahar? Is this something new?

SADLER: It's very much being reported in the region that there is this connectivity if you like...

CALLAWAY: Right.

SADLER: ...between gun running, drug running, and political leverage from Iran to try and have a hand in northern Iraq before and after possibly Saddam Hussein, and also Iraq trying to use Islamic fundamentalist groups to destabilize the Kurds, a potential ally of the United States in any action against Saddam Hussein.

CALLAWAY: How real is the Kurdish Islamic extremist threat there in northern Iraq?

SADLER: Well, certainly, it's thought to run into the perhaps 40 or 50 al Qaeda members. We don't know how seamier they might be, but certainly U.S. intelligence officials are aware of al Qaeda in northern Iraq. Donald Rumsfeld, the U.S. Defense Secretary referred to it back in August. So they're known to be there, but at the moment, no one is taking any direct action against them.

They're close to the Iranian border. They've enjoyed some support by Iran, but reports coming from the Kurdish controlled part -- that are surrounding these Atlantic groups, that they may take action before any possible U.S. action against Iraq as a whole. But this is going to be a very acute and important question of timing.

For now, they pose a threat, assassinations, bomb plots, and so forth, and gun and drug running. So a problem that someone's going to have to deal with, they say, sooner or later.

CALLAWAY: Another startling revelation that you made in your report, also Brent, Muhammad's claim that he separately funneled weapons from Iraq to Saddam to Osama bin Laden, rather. Were you able to find any other links, other than his statement in the reports that you went through?

SADLER: What we're hearing is not only what the prisoner told us, but also, what Kurdish intelligence agents have told us throughout the country in both the main political party groups, the PUK as I mentioned before and the KDP, the Kurdistan Democrat Party. They are convinced, absolutely convinced. And they're told U.S. intelligence authorities that there is definitely a hub of al Qaeda there. They are definitely posing a threat, and that they are part of the deposed Taliban regime, if you like, under the controlled orders of Osama bin Laden before and that they are a threat that needs to be taken care of, preferably with U.S. support.

CALLAWAY: Brent Sadler, incredible job. Thank you so much for bringing that to us. Brent Sadler in northern Iraq.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com