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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Eric Haney
Aired December 01, 2002 - 09:12 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KRIS OSBORN, CNN ANCHOR: There's another perspective in the war on terror, and it involves special operations. The Pentagon appears to be making much greater use of them in the fight against terrorists. They were key in bringing down the Taliban, particularly with targeting and assisting the Northern Alliance. They played a key role in the Persian Gulf region as well.
Joining me now is Sergeant Major Eric Haney, author of "Inside Delta Force," you see the cover of the book there. That is the Army's elite special operations unit. He's one of the founding members of Delta Force. Sergeant Major, thank you so much. We appreciate your perspective this morning.
SGT. MAJ. ERIC HANEY (RET)., U.S. ARMY: A pleasure, always.
OSBORN: I want to begin by asking you about this "TIME" magazine article, which, among a number of different things, mentions that U.S. Hellfire drones are based in Saudi Arabia, that there's some special operations activity being conducted in Yemen, but based in Saudi Arabia.
HANEY: Well, actually, what is going on in Yemen is being based out of Djibouti, and that is the presence that is there in that old French colony, and the French are being very helpful in that. If there is something based in Saudi Arabia, I would think right now, it would be principally liaison troops, some liaison officers from our special operations command working with the Saudi forces.
OSBORN: Now, how have they been? There's essentially a covert war going on, not a lot of discussion about it, because a lot of the information, a lot of the combat activities, a lot of the surveillance activities are classified. Your sense of how special operations are currently working in the Gulf right now.
HANEY: Well, we have to think of this. In the war on terror, and as we saw in Afghanistan, the old template of the World War II great clash of armies in the field has gone away. We're in a new phase of warfare, and we will be for the foreseeable future, which is probably the next couple of generations.
Hunting terrorists depends on two things. The greatest thing is intelligence sources. It's just like going after criminal gangs in the cities. You have to have the intelligence about these people and the very specific intelligence, because we're talking about ones and twos, just relative handfuls of people who carry out these attacks and are part of these organizations. But you couple that by getting away from the high tech side down to the low tech, the most basic level of combat, which is a well- trained man, our special operations forces, again, small numbers, literally going after these -- our opponents in the places that they live and the places where they've taken sanctuary.
OSBORN: Now, Sergeant Major, there's obviously been no shortage of discussion about the contingency plans or possible war plans were there to be military action in Iraq. How do you see special forces being used? A lot of planning, a lot of discussion about their successful use in Afghanistan, and a possible role in an Iraqi invasion.
HANEY: Well, now, two different situations. Afghanistan will never come back again. So -- and one thing that we have learned over the decades, and when I say we, our senior military planners, is that you don't plan for the next war by pulling out your old plans from the last one. Iraq is a completely different situation.
However, the tools that can be brought to bear there are the same ones, which are precision, strikes by our air forces, and we have great capability in that. Realizing precision is a relative term when using 2,000- and 10,000 pound bombs, though, but coupled with our special operations people on the ground directing those activities, those strikes and also working where they can with indigenous forces.
Now, Iraq, that's again, different situation. There's no large opponent force inside of Iraq. Saddam Hussein has killed off practically everyone inside of that country who represents a credible threat to him.
OSBORN: I want to ask you, there's been a lot of writing about the use of special forces during the Gulf War. At one point, there were some Green Berets (UNINTELLIGIBLE) conducting reconnaissance, looking for enemy troop movements. They were then caught in a shootout for several hours with busloads of Iraqi troops, only then to be saved by the 160th helicopter regimen that came in. Obviously, a dangerous situation and a the kind of thing we could potentially see in the event of war.
HANEY: You're always going to see that. But when you're operating inside of someone else's terrain and they don't want you there, one of their primary missions is to find you and eradicate you. So that goes on. Special forces has known that since their time in Vietnam when we'd lose full teams and they'd never be heard of again. So, sure, it's a dangerous business. That's why they're special operations forces.
OSBORN: And I wanted to ask you as well about psychological operations. There are already some leaflets related to firing on coalition aircraft being dropped in the no-fly zones. There's also a lot of discussion about any campaign being heavily involved with special operations forces, seeking to diffuse any support for Saddam Hussein, seeking to convince, perhaps, some of his generals and leaders not to use weapons of mass destruction, essentially defect, so as to minimize risk for any American force. HANEY: Oh, certainly, and that's already started. Remember, Mr. Bush, our president, some time a few months ago made an announcement directly to those senior Iraqi generals and said men, if, in fact, we do go to war, and if, in fact, you're the one that gets the orders to use weapons of mass destruction, you, personally, will be held responsible. You're going to tell it to a world court. You're going to be tried as a war criminal.
So, those seeds are planted. And we've used that also very well during the operation in Panama, during Just Cause. In fact, as we attacked in the city, and were breaking the back of the combat forces within the city of Panama, our psy-ops people and intelligence people got on the phone and were calling the outlying commanders and saying, friends, if you want to live through this, here's your chance. Tell your troops to put your weapons down, stay in the barracks and you're going to be OK. Otherwise, you'll suffer the fate of your comrades here in the city of Panama.
OSBORN: Special operators directly involved in Operation Just Cause, described that way. They used the term "coup de maine (ph)," which is a simultaneous overthrow, using psychological (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and in that case, they talked about the civilian friendly response to the notion of U.S. troops. There was no love lost between many who lived there and Noriega.
HANEY: No, there certainly wasn't. No one loves to work for a dictator, except those who profit by working for the dictator. And when it comes down do whether it's your life to support this man or not, very few people elect to stick with the person like that. Saddam Hussein has no friends. He has a group of henchmen whose lives are bound up with him. But push come to shove, if they could live, they will elect to live.
OSBORN: Sergeant Major, as you point out, each situation is, of course, unique, but the Panama example is pertinent as it could pertain to some contingencies down the road.
Thank you very much for your time and perspective, a founding member of the Army's elite Delta Force, Eric Haney.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 1, 2002 - 09:12 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KRIS OSBORN, CNN ANCHOR: There's another perspective in the war on terror, and it involves special operations. The Pentagon appears to be making much greater use of them in the fight against terrorists. They were key in bringing down the Taliban, particularly with targeting and assisting the Northern Alliance. They played a key role in the Persian Gulf region as well.
Joining me now is Sergeant Major Eric Haney, author of "Inside Delta Force," you see the cover of the book there. That is the Army's elite special operations unit. He's one of the founding members of Delta Force. Sergeant Major, thank you so much. We appreciate your perspective this morning.
SGT. MAJ. ERIC HANEY (RET)., U.S. ARMY: A pleasure, always.
OSBORN: I want to begin by asking you about this "TIME" magazine article, which, among a number of different things, mentions that U.S. Hellfire drones are based in Saudi Arabia, that there's some special operations activity being conducted in Yemen, but based in Saudi Arabia.
HANEY: Well, actually, what is going on in Yemen is being based out of Djibouti, and that is the presence that is there in that old French colony, and the French are being very helpful in that. If there is something based in Saudi Arabia, I would think right now, it would be principally liaison troops, some liaison officers from our special operations command working with the Saudi forces.
OSBORN: Now, how have they been? There's essentially a covert war going on, not a lot of discussion about it, because a lot of the information, a lot of the combat activities, a lot of the surveillance activities are classified. Your sense of how special operations are currently working in the Gulf right now.
HANEY: Well, we have to think of this. In the war on terror, and as we saw in Afghanistan, the old template of the World War II great clash of armies in the field has gone away. We're in a new phase of warfare, and we will be for the foreseeable future, which is probably the next couple of generations.
Hunting terrorists depends on two things. The greatest thing is intelligence sources. It's just like going after criminal gangs in the cities. You have to have the intelligence about these people and the very specific intelligence, because we're talking about ones and twos, just relative handfuls of people who carry out these attacks and are part of these organizations. But you couple that by getting away from the high tech side down to the low tech, the most basic level of combat, which is a well- trained man, our special operations forces, again, small numbers, literally going after these -- our opponents in the places that they live and the places where they've taken sanctuary.
OSBORN: Now, Sergeant Major, there's obviously been no shortage of discussion about the contingency plans or possible war plans were there to be military action in Iraq. How do you see special forces being used? A lot of planning, a lot of discussion about their successful use in Afghanistan, and a possible role in an Iraqi invasion.
HANEY: Well, now, two different situations. Afghanistan will never come back again. So -- and one thing that we have learned over the decades, and when I say we, our senior military planners, is that you don't plan for the next war by pulling out your old plans from the last one. Iraq is a completely different situation.
However, the tools that can be brought to bear there are the same ones, which are precision, strikes by our air forces, and we have great capability in that. Realizing precision is a relative term when using 2,000- and 10,000 pound bombs, though, but coupled with our special operations people on the ground directing those activities, those strikes and also working where they can with indigenous forces.
Now, Iraq, that's again, different situation. There's no large opponent force inside of Iraq. Saddam Hussein has killed off practically everyone inside of that country who represents a credible threat to him.
OSBORN: I want to ask you, there's been a lot of writing about the use of special forces during the Gulf War. At one point, there were some Green Berets (UNINTELLIGIBLE) conducting reconnaissance, looking for enemy troop movements. They were then caught in a shootout for several hours with busloads of Iraqi troops, only then to be saved by the 160th helicopter regimen that came in. Obviously, a dangerous situation and a the kind of thing we could potentially see in the event of war.
HANEY: You're always going to see that. But when you're operating inside of someone else's terrain and they don't want you there, one of their primary missions is to find you and eradicate you. So that goes on. Special forces has known that since their time in Vietnam when we'd lose full teams and they'd never be heard of again. So, sure, it's a dangerous business. That's why they're special operations forces.
OSBORN: And I wanted to ask you as well about psychological operations. There are already some leaflets related to firing on coalition aircraft being dropped in the no-fly zones. There's also a lot of discussion about any campaign being heavily involved with special operations forces, seeking to diffuse any support for Saddam Hussein, seeking to convince, perhaps, some of his generals and leaders not to use weapons of mass destruction, essentially defect, so as to minimize risk for any American force. HANEY: Oh, certainly, and that's already started. Remember, Mr. Bush, our president, some time a few months ago made an announcement directly to those senior Iraqi generals and said men, if, in fact, we do go to war, and if, in fact, you're the one that gets the orders to use weapons of mass destruction, you, personally, will be held responsible. You're going to tell it to a world court. You're going to be tried as a war criminal.
So, those seeds are planted. And we've used that also very well during the operation in Panama, during Just Cause. In fact, as we attacked in the city, and were breaking the back of the combat forces within the city of Panama, our psy-ops people and intelligence people got on the phone and were calling the outlying commanders and saying, friends, if you want to live through this, here's your chance. Tell your troops to put your weapons down, stay in the barracks and you're going to be OK. Otherwise, you'll suffer the fate of your comrades here in the city of Panama.
OSBORN: Special operators directly involved in Operation Just Cause, described that way. They used the term "coup de maine (ph)," which is a simultaneous overthrow, using psychological (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and in that case, they talked about the civilian friendly response to the notion of U.S. troops. There was no love lost between many who lived there and Noriega.
HANEY: No, there certainly wasn't. No one loves to work for a dictator, except those who profit by working for the dictator. And when it comes down do whether it's your life to support this man or not, very few people elect to stick with the person like that. Saddam Hussein has no friends. He has a group of henchmen whose lives are bound up with him. But push come to shove, if they could live, they will elect to live.
OSBORN: Sergeant Major, as you point out, each situation is, of course, unique, but the Panama example is pertinent as it could pertain to some contingencies down the road.
Thank you very much for your time and perspective, a founding member of the Army's elite Delta Force, Eric Haney.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
