Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Danny Muller

Aired December 08, 2002 - 07:22   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Four Canadians opposed to a possible U.S. war against Iraq are taking some drastic measures to express their views. They're traveling to Baghdad and say they will become human shields in effort to prevent an attack.
When they arrive a U.S.- and British-based organization called Voices In The Wilderness will help them get set up. Now the group says it opposes economic sanctions against Iraq but it also opposes the Canadians' plan. Danny Muller belongs to Voices In The Wilderness and he is joining us from Chicago to talk about his organization and plans of the Canadians.

Thanks for being with us this morning.

DANNY MULLER, VOICES IN THE WILDERNESS: Good morning. My pleasure.

CALLAWAY: First, let me ask you a little bit about your organization before we move into what these Canadians have planned. You have made some -- 50 delegations have made trips? Can you tell me exactly what all your organization has done so far opposing these economic sanctions against Iraq?

MULLER: Sure since 1996 we have sent over 55 delegations to Iraq, fact-finding missions, humanitarian missions with Nobel laureates, with congressmen, congressional aides and hundreds of Americans, ordinary folks, teachers, students, farmers.

Really folks going over there, veterans who have gone over to figure out the situation, realize that the Gulf war hasn't ended. That it really has been continuing. And to bring that information back to the people here, who have a lot to learn from what's happening and also have a lot to gain from being involved in changing the situation for positive and viewing some alternatives to violence in the face of all these threats towards war.

CALLAWAY: A number of people certainly oppose what you have been doing. In fact, you've been fined by the Treasury Department, have you not?

MULLER: Yes, from one event back in 1998, four people specifically being singled out, but then also our organization has just been fined altogether a total of $50,000 just for traveling to Iraq and bringing them medicines that are -- you know, the U.N. has reported 4,500 children under the age of five are dying each month, a direct contribution because of economic sanctions. We're there bringing these medicines and we'll continue to do that and we will refuse to pay these fines. And to bring medicines and we're inviting Americans to join us in this.

CALLAWAY: Well, certainly your intentions are well meaning, but are you not concerned that you may be sending the wrong message to many people?

MULLER: No, I think this is the best message we can be sending. I think we're getting bringing -- you know we're watching where this medicine is going. We're being very, very careful that it is not going into the hands of the Iraqi government. It is a great question about, you know, being loyal to these people and not to governments and focusing on that and looking toward solutions. I think we refuse to cooperate and agree with the Iraqi government. We don't give them any money, unlike most of the media that we see here in the U.S., who is giving them thousands of dollars on a daily basis to be there.

CALLAWAY: Well, let's stick to the subject of the economic sanctions, which is what you are protesting.

MULLER: Sure.

CALLAWAY: Certainly, Saddam Hussein is allowing you to conduct these protests there in Iraq. That should tell you something.

MULLER: Well, we're being very limited in our movements. I think we are realizing that as we go on we're seeing the differences that both the regime there -- because we don't have the same goals. We do not support the regime. We do not want them to be in power.

CALLAWAY: But he does not allow any other protests of any other kind, in that country, to be held. Why you?

MULLER: I think one of the most amazing things that has happened in Iraq and we have to look at this, has been the protest that happened a few weeks ago outside the Ministry of Information, where they went where they are finding journalists were. And they went there.

And there were over 50 families represented. This was the day after the prisons were emptied. And there were protests by Iraqis. And they were there to ask where their family members were. And I think there are many things happening in Iraq that we need to be paying attention to, and that's one of them.

CALLAWAY: Let me ask you, while I have you on the line here, about these four Canadians who say they're going to make themselves into human shields. You say you don't support their actions, yet you are giving them support by helping them get set up?

MULLER: Oh, no. I support them going to Iraq. I support their work. We just -- I think the term human shield is very misfortunate. I think it is a trap in terms of it is not describing what the people are doing.

CALLAWAY: What are they doing then?

MULLER: They're volunteering with the United Nations, with NGOs, humanitarian NGOs. They're working everyday. They're talking about what the costs of what the war would be. The FAO (ph) is saying that there will be famine conditions throughout the entire country in up to three weeks if we go in with the kind of bombing we're talking about.

They are over there with U.S. veterans, people who were in the Gulf war and Vietnam who are saying look at what this is going to do to U.S. soldiers. Let alone the effects that it is going to be to the Iraqi people, let alone the effects that it may bring back to the American people.

CALLAWAY: Do you think that this would -- in the end -- help the American efforts?

MULLER: Would what help the American efforts?

CALLAWAY: Have these Canadians come and make themselves into human shields?

MULLER: I don't think they're going there as human shields. I think they're going there to do some work to try to prevent war. I think the efforts of internationals to prevent war and offer alternatives to violence when governments are not doing the best toward that, I think is one of the hopes for the future that we have.

CALLAWAY: All right, Danny. Danny Muller, he is Voices In The Wilderness. Thank you for being with us this morning.

MULLER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 8, 2002 - 07:22   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Four Canadians opposed to a possible U.S. war against Iraq are taking some drastic measures to express their views. They're traveling to Baghdad and say they will become human shields in effort to prevent an attack.
When they arrive a U.S.- and British-based organization called Voices In The Wilderness will help them get set up. Now the group says it opposes economic sanctions against Iraq but it also opposes the Canadians' plan. Danny Muller belongs to Voices In The Wilderness and he is joining us from Chicago to talk about his organization and plans of the Canadians.

Thanks for being with us this morning.

DANNY MULLER, VOICES IN THE WILDERNESS: Good morning. My pleasure.

CALLAWAY: First, let me ask you a little bit about your organization before we move into what these Canadians have planned. You have made some -- 50 delegations have made trips? Can you tell me exactly what all your organization has done so far opposing these economic sanctions against Iraq?

MULLER: Sure since 1996 we have sent over 55 delegations to Iraq, fact-finding missions, humanitarian missions with Nobel laureates, with congressmen, congressional aides and hundreds of Americans, ordinary folks, teachers, students, farmers.

Really folks going over there, veterans who have gone over to figure out the situation, realize that the Gulf war hasn't ended. That it really has been continuing. And to bring that information back to the people here, who have a lot to learn from what's happening and also have a lot to gain from being involved in changing the situation for positive and viewing some alternatives to violence in the face of all these threats towards war.

CALLAWAY: A number of people certainly oppose what you have been doing. In fact, you've been fined by the Treasury Department, have you not?

MULLER: Yes, from one event back in 1998, four people specifically being singled out, but then also our organization has just been fined altogether a total of $50,000 just for traveling to Iraq and bringing them medicines that are -- you know, the U.N. has reported 4,500 children under the age of five are dying each month, a direct contribution because of economic sanctions. We're there bringing these medicines and we'll continue to do that and we will refuse to pay these fines. And to bring medicines and we're inviting Americans to join us in this.

CALLAWAY: Well, certainly your intentions are well meaning, but are you not concerned that you may be sending the wrong message to many people?

MULLER: No, I think this is the best message we can be sending. I think we're getting bringing -- you know we're watching where this medicine is going. We're being very, very careful that it is not going into the hands of the Iraqi government. It is a great question about, you know, being loyal to these people and not to governments and focusing on that and looking toward solutions. I think we refuse to cooperate and agree with the Iraqi government. We don't give them any money, unlike most of the media that we see here in the U.S., who is giving them thousands of dollars on a daily basis to be there.

CALLAWAY: Well, let's stick to the subject of the economic sanctions, which is what you are protesting.

MULLER: Sure.

CALLAWAY: Certainly, Saddam Hussein is allowing you to conduct these protests there in Iraq. That should tell you something.

MULLER: Well, we're being very limited in our movements. I think we are realizing that as we go on we're seeing the differences that both the regime there -- because we don't have the same goals. We do not support the regime. We do not want them to be in power.

CALLAWAY: But he does not allow any other protests of any other kind, in that country, to be held. Why you?

MULLER: I think one of the most amazing things that has happened in Iraq and we have to look at this, has been the protest that happened a few weeks ago outside the Ministry of Information, where they went where they are finding journalists were. And they went there.

And there were over 50 families represented. This was the day after the prisons were emptied. And there were protests by Iraqis. And they were there to ask where their family members were. And I think there are many things happening in Iraq that we need to be paying attention to, and that's one of them.

CALLAWAY: Let me ask you, while I have you on the line here, about these four Canadians who say they're going to make themselves into human shields. You say you don't support their actions, yet you are giving them support by helping them get set up?

MULLER: Oh, no. I support them going to Iraq. I support their work. We just -- I think the term human shield is very misfortunate. I think it is a trap in terms of it is not describing what the people are doing.

CALLAWAY: What are they doing then?

MULLER: They're volunteering with the United Nations, with NGOs, humanitarian NGOs. They're working everyday. They're talking about what the costs of what the war would be. The FAO (ph) is saying that there will be famine conditions throughout the entire country in up to three weeks if we go in with the kind of bombing we're talking about.

They are over there with U.S. veterans, people who were in the Gulf war and Vietnam who are saying look at what this is going to do to U.S. soldiers. Let alone the effects that it is going to be to the Iraqi people, let alone the effects that it may bring back to the American people.

CALLAWAY: Do you think that this would -- in the end -- help the American efforts?

MULLER: Would what help the American efforts?

CALLAWAY: Have these Canadians come and make themselves into human shields?

MULLER: I don't think they're going there as human shields. I think they're going there to do some work to try to prevent war. I think the efforts of internationals to prevent war and offer alternatives to violence when governments are not doing the best toward that, I think is one of the hopes for the future that we have.

CALLAWAY: All right, Danny. Danny Muller, he is Voices In The Wilderness. Thank you for being with us this morning.

MULLER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com