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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Joseph Wilson
Aired December 15, 2002 - 08:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHARLES MOLINEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Twenty more weapons inspectors arrive in Baghdad today. That should help inspectors pick up the pace as they try to visit 200 sites before they report to the U.N. next month. Meanwhile, some preliminary reports will be submitted to the U.N. this week.
Joining us to talk about it is Ambassador Joe Wilson. He was the highest ranking American diplomat in Baghdad immediately before the Gulf War.
And we have some developing news to talk about right now. Coalition airplanes have again today struck targets in Iraq. This, of course, at the same time as we had this new letter going from Iraq to U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan demanding an investigation into these incursions.
Is this going to be a new hot issue if these strikes or alleged hostile action by Iraqi defenses and counter strikes by coalition planes continue?
AMB. JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER CHARGE D'AFFAIRES: Are you asking me?
MOLINEAUX: Yes, I'm sorry. Yes.
WILSON: Oh, good morning.
Yes, I think it's going to remain a hot issue for the United States, particularly since Secretary Rumsfeld has made it one of the things that he believes is a material breach in Iraq's compliance with Resolution 1441. That said, of course, the rules of engagement covering the over flight programs for the past decade have included hitting those sites that paint or that turn on their radars to try and hit American and Allied war craft going over them.
MOLINEAUX: But looking into the diplomatic venue, is the illumination of an American plane, or even, for that matter, shooting a missile at it, a material breach sufficient enough to win over the U.N.?
WILSON: I'm not sure that they're actually going to go back to the U.N. on this. I think that Secretary Rumsfeld is just pointing this out in the context of building a broader case of material breach against Iraq. I think that they can manage this problem by continuing to hit not just the sites, but I would argue that they should inflict a little bit more pain on the Iraqis for having painted our aircraft by going after higher value targets such as the command and control center that's responsible for giving the order to the people manning the anti-aircraft battery.
MOLINEAUX: What about the inspector's report? We're waiting to see what that looks like. Of course, we already have Iraq's declaration before the U.N. does there have to be a major conflict between them for there to be a smoking gun?
WILSON: Well, I think the next step really is going to be for us to verify what's exactly in the declaration. Then there'll be, I think, an intensification of the inspection process, trying to marry up with what the Iraqis have said they had and what we believe they have, we and other friendly intelligence services.
So I think that the potential for the declaration of material breach on that particular subject is somewhat down the road.
MOLINEAUX: Has Iraq scored diplomatic points just by submitting the report?
WILSON: Well, I certainly think that the Iraqis believe they have and part of Saddam's strategy has always been to try and split off the consensus that's arrayed against him by going after those who are predisposed not to have a major conflict in the Middle East. I think he'll continue to do that. He'll continue to try and portray Iraq as a victim of Western, and particularly United States, aggression against him, and will attempt to say to his audience that, in fact, they have done everything that they were supposed to do and if the United States and its allies attacks, they're doing so with no firm justification.
MOLINEAUX: Really briefly, we're running out of time here, but what about this burden of proof issue? Under the U.N. resolutions, Iraq is supposed to prove that it has disarmed. But has the burden of proof really started to fall to the coalition and the U.S. in particular to prove that it hasn't?
WILSON: Well, I think ultimately, before we launch any sort of attack that's being contemplated by the regime change crowd, that we need to ensure that the world understands that there is a reason for doing so. And that basically means that you're going to have to come up with more intelligence and more information that provides the underpinning for the case on weapons of mass destruction.
We should remember that a good part of the world actually believes that Saddam probably doesn't have weapons of mass destruction and for the longer period, the long-term, we're going to want to ensure that the rest of the world actually sides with us on this issue.
MOLINEAUX: OK, thank you very much, Joe Wilson.
Good to have you with us this morning.
WILSON: My pleasure.
Sorry, I have a little bit of laryngitis this morning.
MOLINEAUX: You sound fine.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 15, 2002 - 08:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHARLES MOLINEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Twenty more weapons inspectors arrive in Baghdad today. That should help inspectors pick up the pace as they try to visit 200 sites before they report to the U.N. next month. Meanwhile, some preliminary reports will be submitted to the U.N. this week.
Joining us to talk about it is Ambassador Joe Wilson. He was the highest ranking American diplomat in Baghdad immediately before the Gulf War.
And we have some developing news to talk about right now. Coalition airplanes have again today struck targets in Iraq. This, of course, at the same time as we had this new letter going from Iraq to U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan demanding an investigation into these incursions.
Is this going to be a new hot issue if these strikes or alleged hostile action by Iraqi defenses and counter strikes by coalition planes continue?
AMB. JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER CHARGE D'AFFAIRES: Are you asking me?
MOLINEAUX: Yes, I'm sorry. Yes.
WILSON: Oh, good morning.
Yes, I think it's going to remain a hot issue for the United States, particularly since Secretary Rumsfeld has made it one of the things that he believes is a material breach in Iraq's compliance with Resolution 1441. That said, of course, the rules of engagement covering the over flight programs for the past decade have included hitting those sites that paint or that turn on their radars to try and hit American and Allied war craft going over them.
MOLINEAUX: But looking into the diplomatic venue, is the illumination of an American plane, or even, for that matter, shooting a missile at it, a material breach sufficient enough to win over the U.N.?
WILSON: I'm not sure that they're actually going to go back to the U.N. on this. I think that Secretary Rumsfeld is just pointing this out in the context of building a broader case of material breach against Iraq. I think that they can manage this problem by continuing to hit not just the sites, but I would argue that they should inflict a little bit more pain on the Iraqis for having painted our aircraft by going after higher value targets such as the command and control center that's responsible for giving the order to the people manning the anti-aircraft battery.
MOLINEAUX: What about the inspector's report? We're waiting to see what that looks like. Of course, we already have Iraq's declaration before the U.N. does there have to be a major conflict between them for there to be a smoking gun?
WILSON: Well, I think the next step really is going to be for us to verify what's exactly in the declaration. Then there'll be, I think, an intensification of the inspection process, trying to marry up with what the Iraqis have said they had and what we believe they have, we and other friendly intelligence services.
So I think that the potential for the declaration of material breach on that particular subject is somewhat down the road.
MOLINEAUX: Has Iraq scored diplomatic points just by submitting the report?
WILSON: Well, I certainly think that the Iraqis believe they have and part of Saddam's strategy has always been to try and split off the consensus that's arrayed against him by going after those who are predisposed not to have a major conflict in the Middle East. I think he'll continue to do that. He'll continue to try and portray Iraq as a victim of Western, and particularly United States, aggression against him, and will attempt to say to his audience that, in fact, they have done everything that they were supposed to do and if the United States and its allies attacks, they're doing so with no firm justification.
MOLINEAUX: Really briefly, we're running out of time here, but what about this burden of proof issue? Under the U.N. resolutions, Iraq is supposed to prove that it has disarmed. But has the burden of proof really started to fall to the coalition and the U.S. in particular to prove that it hasn't?
WILSON: Well, I think ultimately, before we launch any sort of attack that's being contemplated by the regime change crowd, that we need to ensure that the world understands that there is a reason for doing so. And that basically means that you're going to have to come up with more intelligence and more information that provides the underpinning for the case on weapons of mass destruction.
We should remember that a good part of the world actually believes that Saddam probably doesn't have weapons of mass destruction and for the longer period, the long-term, we're going to want to ensure that the rest of the world actually sides with us on this issue.
MOLINEAUX: OK, thank you very much, Joe Wilson.
Good to have you with us this morning.
WILSON: My pleasure.
Sorry, I have a little bit of laryngitis this morning.
MOLINEAUX: You sound fine.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
