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CNN Sunday Morning
How Careful Should War Zone Journalists Be?
Aired December 22, 2002 - 08:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, turning now to war preparations in the Gulf region, as we've been telling you this morning, a French TV journalist died today after being hit by a U.S. tank taking part in training exercises in the Kuwaiti desert.
Let's talk about that issue specifically and the general issue of journalists at risk when covering wars.
Joining us from Washington, CNN military analyst Kelly McCann and from Baghdad, the boss, chief news executive Eason Jordan.
Eason, first of all, what do we know about the specifics of this incident? I know you're in Baghdad, this happened in Kuwait. But what do we know about what happened?
EASON JORDAN, CNN CHIEF NEWS EXECUTIVE: Well, what we know is this French television correspondent from TF1, which is the CNN affiliate in France, died in a tragic way, but actually in a heroic way, as well. He saved the life of his colleague, his cameraman. When this correspondent saw a tank going in the direction of the cameraman, the correspondent made a dash for it, got his cameraman out of the way. But unfortunately he was hit by that tank in the process.
And I should say there are many, many journalists in Kuwait right now -- I actually was there earlier this week -- out in the field with U.S. forces and coalition forces covering these war games and it's important of Russia to be there. And I just want to say on behalf of CNN to extend our condolences to the family and to the colleagues of our friend from TF1.
O'BRIEN: All right, well, Kelly, it sounds like Mr. Bourrat was doing what he probably should have been doing, which is to say protecting the photographer who, after all, is looking at a very narrow field of view. You sort of have blinders on when you're shooting video and what they tell you to do is watch out for these people. He was doing that and yet, of course, he wasn't fully watching out for himself, perhaps.
J. KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, sure. I mean you've got competing concerns. You know, most journalists that are out there right now covering this kind of thing are A type personalities. They want to be in the middle of it. They want to observe the public's right and need to know. But then you've got visibility problems. I mean the tank and where the actual driver of that tank, the operator, sits, and then you've got that depth perception problem and that very narrow kind of field of focus, as you pointed out.
So if that cameraman was intensely focused on some action, then certainly the person standing off would have seen the whole picture and he probably responded to save his life and push him out of the way. I mean tanks and people moving in a small area is a very, very dangerous event. U.S. troops get killed during training exercises.
So it's not a game to take lightly.
O'BRIEN: Eason, this comes at a time when a couple of things are afoot. First of all, the risks have gone up dramatically for journalists covering these sorts of events, not just exercises, but wars in general. And secondly, the U.S. military is attempting to come up with ways to allow journalists to be closer to the front lines than they were, say, in the first Gulf War.
Will this have some sort of impact on all of that?
EASON: Well, I think certainly the U.S. military needs to review safety procedures on these exercises to ensure that journalists as well as, of course, U.S. forces, are not hurt in these exercises.
Having said that, it's really important for journalists to be there covering not just the war games, but the war itself. And I have to say that the Pentagon is making a determined effort to get journalists out on the front lines in ways that I think will only benefit the viewer at home and help people better understand the people who are actually fighting the conflict and get a better sense of the war itself.
It's important for us to be there. It's important and actually a good thing that the Pentagon is allowing journalists to get closer to the action and I think in the end that'll heighten understanding not just of the war, but of the people on the front lines who are really doing the fighting.
O'BRIEN: I want to ask you a little bit more about that in just a moment, sort of justify the presence of journalists on the front lines, but Kelly, first, I want to ask you how much can journalists get in the way, from your perspective as, your military perspective, put it that way?
MCCANN: Well, having, you know, been in operational status in Bosnia and Kosovo, Haiti, places like that, and watching journalists, you know, undertake their tasks, you have two things or two perspectives. One is that you discount them, in other words, they're transparent and there's no assumed liability, responsibility or anything else as you go about, you know, conducting your tasks. The other -- that's a difficult position to take.
The other perspective is, of course, that, you know, that journalist who is, has every right to safety, etc. So if you see a hazardous situation, you know having to alert them or having to care for them kind of in an over watch, which they would resist because they're insistent that, you know, they don't need that kind of over watch, nor do they necessarily want to be aligned with troops. So it's a difficult situation. It's especially difficult, Miles, at the point of impact when you're dealing with the physiological effects of imminent danger, the disorientation from being under fire, people do strange things and suddenly here's an uncontrolled element in your tactical area of operations.
So it's a challenge to try to keep your arms around all of that, make sure that people's safety is ensured and still attain your mission. So it can be real problematic.
O'BRIEN: Eason, what do you say to that line of reasoning, that it's not worth the risk, that you're putting people who are not properly trained into harm's way, forcing U.S. troops who should be focusing on the mission at hand to deal with the media?
EASON: Well, journalists, as journalists we work in a dangerous business. We know the risks. There are grownups among us who have been trained properly. In fact, I think you and Fredricka both have gone through CNN's war zone training program. Four hundred fifty CNN journalists have gone through training to go into these war time situations. I think that training is critically important.
I also think it's important that you put mature, responsible journalists into the field, you do it before the war starts so the journalists and the warriors have gotten to know each other, believe in each other, trust each other, and that's what we're doing ahead of this conflict with Iraq, should it come. We want to be ready on all sides to tell the stories that need to be told to the news consumers at home. And there were so many untold stories in the war in 1991, the Gulf War. One of the biggest tank battles in recent history was totally undocumented and I think this time, should there be a conflict, that you'll see reporting on those types of things that will help people better understand what's going on on the front.
O'BRIEN: Kelly, Eason's point that, you know, seasoned, responsible journalists who've been through training are not an undue risk and when you start talking about the historical record and, quite frankly, the ability of the Pentagon to toot its own horn, that balance tips in the favor of putting sits closer to the front lines. Would you go along with that line of reasoning?
MCCANN: I go along with two things Eason said. The first is, is that, you know, they are of no risk to the military. In other words, they're, the military is not responsible for them. The local commander, the tactical unit commander can feel responsible for them. But the other point that Eason makes is even more important, and that is that developing a relationship of not necessarily you're on our team, because they're non-combatants. Journalists are non-combatants. But understanding what the limits are, where the parameters are, that's key. And I think that CNN's approach of training the journalists first and then, of course, deploying them right now during the deployment, train ops, etc., is integral to them going forward to actual combat.
But make no bones about it, it's analogous to racing cars. If you race cars long enough, sooner or later you're going to crash. And the bottom line is is that a battlefield is a dangerous place and grown people understand that.
O'BRIEN: Eason, a final point here. Why do you suppose the Pentagon is attempting to open the doors a little bit here and give journalists more access this go round?
EASON: Oh, I think there's a real frustration among the U.S. military that the stories from the front lines are not being told. They want the stories to be told, not just from the briefing rooms, but to tell the stories about the soldiers and sailors who actually prosecute the war, who execute the war and the people who actually are out there putting their lives on the line.
We saw so little of what happened in 1991 and of many other conflicts since Vietnam, which really soured the relationship between the U.S. military and the press. We can never be natural allies. We're not allies. But we can work together and the news media can do a better job in telling the stories if they/'re just given permission to do so and doing so in a way where we're putting seasoned grownups out there who know what to do, what not to do, not to cross the line, not to get in the way, just do their jobs and report back to viewers in the United States and around the world.
O'BRIEN: Eason Jordan, our chief news executive here, Kelly McCann, our military analyst, thank you both for joining us this morning on CNN SUNDAY MORNING. Appreciate it.
MCCANN: You bet, Miles.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 22, 2002 - 08:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, turning now to war preparations in the Gulf region, as we've been telling you this morning, a French TV journalist died today after being hit by a U.S. tank taking part in training exercises in the Kuwaiti desert.
Let's talk about that issue specifically and the general issue of journalists at risk when covering wars.
Joining us from Washington, CNN military analyst Kelly McCann and from Baghdad, the boss, chief news executive Eason Jordan.
Eason, first of all, what do we know about the specifics of this incident? I know you're in Baghdad, this happened in Kuwait. But what do we know about what happened?
EASON JORDAN, CNN CHIEF NEWS EXECUTIVE: Well, what we know is this French television correspondent from TF1, which is the CNN affiliate in France, died in a tragic way, but actually in a heroic way, as well. He saved the life of his colleague, his cameraman. When this correspondent saw a tank going in the direction of the cameraman, the correspondent made a dash for it, got his cameraman out of the way. But unfortunately he was hit by that tank in the process.
And I should say there are many, many journalists in Kuwait right now -- I actually was there earlier this week -- out in the field with U.S. forces and coalition forces covering these war games and it's important of Russia to be there. And I just want to say on behalf of CNN to extend our condolences to the family and to the colleagues of our friend from TF1.
O'BRIEN: All right, well, Kelly, it sounds like Mr. Bourrat was doing what he probably should have been doing, which is to say protecting the photographer who, after all, is looking at a very narrow field of view. You sort of have blinders on when you're shooting video and what they tell you to do is watch out for these people. He was doing that and yet, of course, he wasn't fully watching out for himself, perhaps.
J. KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, sure. I mean you've got competing concerns. You know, most journalists that are out there right now covering this kind of thing are A type personalities. They want to be in the middle of it. They want to observe the public's right and need to know. But then you've got visibility problems. I mean the tank and where the actual driver of that tank, the operator, sits, and then you've got that depth perception problem and that very narrow kind of field of focus, as you pointed out.
So if that cameraman was intensely focused on some action, then certainly the person standing off would have seen the whole picture and he probably responded to save his life and push him out of the way. I mean tanks and people moving in a small area is a very, very dangerous event. U.S. troops get killed during training exercises.
So it's not a game to take lightly.
O'BRIEN: Eason, this comes at a time when a couple of things are afoot. First of all, the risks have gone up dramatically for journalists covering these sorts of events, not just exercises, but wars in general. And secondly, the U.S. military is attempting to come up with ways to allow journalists to be closer to the front lines than they were, say, in the first Gulf War.
Will this have some sort of impact on all of that?
EASON: Well, I think certainly the U.S. military needs to review safety procedures on these exercises to ensure that journalists as well as, of course, U.S. forces, are not hurt in these exercises.
Having said that, it's really important for journalists to be there covering not just the war games, but the war itself. And I have to say that the Pentagon is making a determined effort to get journalists out on the front lines in ways that I think will only benefit the viewer at home and help people better understand the people who are actually fighting the conflict and get a better sense of the war itself.
It's important for us to be there. It's important and actually a good thing that the Pentagon is allowing journalists to get closer to the action and I think in the end that'll heighten understanding not just of the war, but of the people on the front lines who are really doing the fighting.
O'BRIEN: I want to ask you a little bit more about that in just a moment, sort of justify the presence of journalists on the front lines, but Kelly, first, I want to ask you how much can journalists get in the way, from your perspective as, your military perspective, put it that way?
MCCANN: Well, having, you know, been in operational status in Bosnia and Kosovo, Haiti, places like that, and watching journalists, you know, undertake their tasks, you have two things or two perspectives. One is that you discount them, in other words, they're transparent and there's no assumed liability, responsibility or anything else as you go about, you know, conducting your tasks. The other -- that's a difficult position to take.
The other perspective is, of course, that, you know, that journalist who is, has every right to safety, etc. So if you see a hazardous situation, you know having to alert them or having to care for them kind of in an over watch, which they would resist because they're insistent that, you know, they don't need that kind of over watch, nor do they necessarily want to be aligned with troops. So it's a difficult situation. It's especially difficult, Miles, at the point of impact when you're dealing with the physiological effects of imminent danger, the disorientation from being under fire, people do strange things and suddenly here's an uncontrolled element in your tactical area of operations.
So it's a challenge to try to keep your arms around all of that, make sure that people's safety is ensured and still attain your mission. So it can be real problematic.
O'BRIEN: Eason, what do you say to that line of reasoning, that it's not worth the risk, that you're putting people who are not properly trained into harm's way, forcing U.S. troops who should be focusing on the mission at hand to deal with the media?
EASON: Well, journalists, as journalists we work in a dangerous business. We know the risks. There are grownups among us who have been trained properly. In fact, I think you and Fredricka both have gone through CNN's war zone training program. Four hundred fifty CNN journalists have gone through training to go into these war time situations. I think that training is critically important.
I also think it's important that you put mature, responsible journalists into the field, you do it before the war starts so the journalists and the warriors have gotten to know each other, believe in each other, trust each other, and that's what we're doing ahead of this conflict with Iraq, should it come. We want to be ready on all sides to tell the stories that need to be told to the news consumers at home. And there were so many untold stories in the war in 1991, the Gulf War. One of the biggest tank battles in recent history was totally undocumented and I think this time, should there be a conflict, that you'll see reporting on those types of things that will help people better understand what's going on on the front.
O'BRIEN: Kelly, Eason's point that, you know, seasoned, responsible journalists who've been through training are not an undue risk and when you start talking about the historical record and, quite frankly, the ability of the Pentagon to toot its own horn, that balance tips in the favor of putting sits closer to the front lines. Would you go along with that line of reasoning?
MCCANN: I go along with two things Eason said. The first is, is that, you know, they are of no risk to the military. In other words, they're, the military is not responsible for them. The local commander, the tactical unit commander can feel responsible for them. But the other point that Eason makes is even more important, and that is that developing a relationship of not necessarily you're on our team, because they're non-combatants. Journalists are non-combatants. But understanding what the limits are, where the parameters are, that's key. And I think that CNN's approach of training the journalists first and then, of course, deploying them right now during the deployment, train ops, etc., is integral to them going forward to actual combat.
But make no bones about it, it's analogous to racing cars. If you race cars long enough, sooner or later you're going to crash. And the bottom line is is that a battlefield is a dangerous place and grown people understand that.
O'BRIEN: Eason, a final point here. Why do you suppose the Pentagon is attempting to open the doors a little bit here and give journalists more access this go round?
EASON: Oh, I think there's a real frustration among the U.S. military that the stories from the front lines are not being told. They want the stories to be told, not just from the briefing rooms, but to tell the stories about the soldiers and sailors who actually prosecute the war, who execute the war and the people who actually are out there putting their lives on the line.
We saw so little of what happened in 1991 and of many other conflicts since Vietnam, which really soured the relationship between the U.S. military and the press. We can never be natural allies. We're not allies. But we can work together and the news media can do a better job in telling the stories if they/'re just given permission to do so and doing so in a way where we're putting seasoned grownups out there who know what to do, what not to do, not to cross the line, not to get in the way, just do their jobs and report back to viewers in the United States and around the world.
O'BRIEN: Eason Jordan, our chief news executive here, Kelly McCann, our military analyst, thank you both for joining us this morning on CNN SUNDAY MORNING. Appreciate it.
MCCANN: You bet, Miles.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
