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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Dana Dillon
Aired December 29, 2002 - 07:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Just a few days ago the issue of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction seemed to be the main concern for the Bush administration, but now the North Korean nuclear program is creating some new headaches. Pyongyang is expelling the last two international inspectors as you've before, and will be able to work on its program without any international observation.
Joining us now for a discussion on how the situation in North Korea differs from the one in Iraq, is Dana Dillon. He is a senior policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation, he joins us from our Washington D.C. bureau; Mr. Dillon, thanks so much for coming in early this morning.
DANA DILLON, SENIOR POLICY ANALYST, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Good morning, thank you.
SAN MIGUEL: I want to get your immediate reaction to this latest news involving the tailored containment policy that President Bush is now adopting, kind of a combination of diplomatic and economic pressure on North Korea, pretty much what you were expecting in this case?
DILLON: Oh, absolutely, I think it's the smartest way to go, the -- we're a long ways down the road, we're not with North Korea where we are now with Iraq, we're just starting this process, and we need to go through the diplomatic process. There's plenty of reasons to think that North Korea would be susceptible to international pressure, particularly from neighbors such as China, and Japan, and South Korea, and Russia.
So, I think a the -- a tailored containment process would be actually perfect.
SAN MIGUEL: I know we're here to talk about the differences between these two situations, North Korea and Iraq, but keeping with this tailored containment, the U.S. is preparing to take the North Korean situation with the International Atomic Energy agency to the U.N. Security Council. The U.N. also, you know, is involved with the Iraq situation.
DILLON: Right.
SAN MIGUEL: An important similarity here?
DILLON: Between Iraq and North Korea?
SAN MIGUEL: And using the U.N., yes.
DILLON: Oh absolutely, there -- the Bush administration is trying to mobilize the U.N. Security Council, mobilize the U.N. -- the power of the U.N. to help contain these problems, because it's not just an American problem obviously, it's a problem -- nuclear weapons in the hands of countries like Iraq and North Korea is a problem for everybody and we need to have the entire national community say that it's their responsibility as well.
So, yes, definitely using the U.N. is a good thing, and I'm glad he's doing it.
SAN MIGUEL: Remind our viewers of the specific treaty violations that the North Koreans are accused of committing here.
DILLON: Well, there are signatory as a non-proliferation treaty, which they are not supposed to manufacture or sell nuclear weapons and if they are not a nuclear weapons state before this time, and in fact, now they're declaring that they are a nuclear weapons state obviously, and they're not supposed to be proliferating, which they're also proliferating, then that's just a non-proliferation treaty. Then of course, they signed and agreed to a framework with the United States, were again, they agreed not to produce nuclear weapons and obviously they are.
SAN MIGUEL: And the idea here of the threat of military action, completely off the table in terms of North Korea, unlike what's going on now with Iraq -- I mean, just the risks to the peninsula are just too great here?
DILLON: Oh absolutely, I do not think military option is off the table. There's always going to be a military option, the president, it would be irresponsible to say he's never going to use a military option with North Korea, but he's going to use diplomatic -- or use diplomatic means first -- and so, it's not on the table right now, but is certainly available to the president when he needs it.
SAN MIGUEL: And the ideas of also -- the differences here between how the U.S. is using its allies and its neighbors in Iraq, in the Iraq -- in the Persian Gulf region, and how its using the allies and the neighbors, South Korea, China, as you've mentioned with the North Korean situation, the biggest difference is here.
DILLON: Well in -- with the Iraq situation they have a lot of neighbors that are would like to be, at least would like to be friendly with Iraq. For example, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, they have other neighbors like Iran, which although is not friendly with Iraq is a -- is also a member of the axis of evil and also is a proliferator of nuclear weapons, or at least nuclear technology.
North Korea on the other hand, has -- is not friendly with South Korea, is not friendly with Japan, it is friendly with China, but China does not want a nuclear arms Korean peninsula, China has a lot of very good reasons to help bring North Korea out of the nuclear club and back into a peaceful negotiation with the international community. SAN MIGUEL: And one other quick question, we got about 30 seconds left, Iraqis had tried, has tried to stoke anti-western sentiment in he region here, and then you may have heard the report 10,000 people rallying in Pyongyang as North Korea tries to drive a wedge between the U.S. and Seoul; your thoughts about these different tactics here.
DILLON: Well, yes, essentially it's the same tactic as you're, as you're noting they're trying to drive a wedge between the international community and the United States, but the 10,000 people in North Korea, at least off the clips I saw, they are obviously, you know, brought there, they're all (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and shouting, and shaking their fists in unison -- so, it's obviously not -- they're not expressing opinion of North Koreans, they're expression opinion of Kim Jung Il.
And I don't think in either case they're going to be successful, because nobody wants either Iraq or North Korea to have nuclear weapons.
SAN MIGUEL: I'm -- you know, what I meant to say, similarities in the tactics, not the differences, you're exactly right, it is the same kind of strategy being used here. Dana Dillon, senior policy analyst with the Heritage Foundation, thanks so much for joining us this morning.
DILLON: Thank you, thanks for having me.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 29, 2002 - 07:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Just a few days ago the issue of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction seemed to be the main concern for the Bush administration, but now the North Korean nuclear program is creating some new headaches. Pyongyang is expelling the last two international inspectors as you've before, and will be able to work on its program without any international observation.
Joining us now for a discussion on how the situation in North Korea differs from the one in Iraq, is Dana Dillon. He is a senior policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation, he joins us from our Washington D.C. bureau; Mr. Dillon, thanks so much for coming in early this morning.
DANA DILLON, SENIOR POLICY ANALYST, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Good morning, thank you.
SAN MIGUEL: I want to get your immediate reaction to this latest news involving the tailored containment policy that President Bush is now adopting, kind of a combination of diplomatic and economic pressure on North Korea, pretty much what you were expecting in this case?
DILLON: Oh, absolutely, I think it's the smartest way to go, the -- we're a long ways down the road, we're not with North Korea where we are now with Iraq, we're just starting this process, and we need to go through the diplomatic process. There's plenty of reasons to think that North Korea would be susceptible to international pressure, particularly from neighbors such as China, and Japan, and South Korea, and Russia.
So, I think a the -- a tailored containment process would be actually perfect.
SAN MIGUEL: I know we're here to talk about the differences between these two situations, North Korea and Iraq, but keeping with this tailored containment, the U.S. is preparing to take the North Korean situation with the International Atomic Energy agency to the U.N. Security Council. The U.N. also, you know, is involved with the Iraq situation.
DILLON: Right.
SAN MIGUEL: An important similarity here?
DILLON: Between Iraq and North Korea?
SAN MIGUEL: And using the U.N., yes.
DILLON: Oh absolutely, there -- the Bush administration is trying to mobilize the U.N. Security Council, mobilize the U.N. -- the power of the U.N. to help contain these problems, because it's not just an American problem obviously, it's a problem -- nuclear weapons in the hands of countries like Iraq and North Korea is a problem for everybody and we need to have the entire national community say that it's their responsibility as well.
So, yes, definitely using the U.N. is a good thing, and I'm glad he's doing it.
SAN MIGUEL: Remind our viewers of the specific treaty violations that the North Koreans are accused of committing here.
DILLON: Well, there are signatory as a non-proliferation treaty, which they are not supposed to manufacture or sell nuclear weapons and if they are not a nuclear weapons state before this time, and in fact, now they're declaring that they are a nuclear weapons state obviously, and they're not supposed to be proliferating, which they're also proliferating, then that's just a non-proliferation treaty. Then of course, they signed and agreed to a framework with the United States, were again, they agreed not to produce nuclear weapons and obviously they are.
SAN MIGUEL: And the idea here of the threat of military action, completely off the table in terms of North Korea, unlike what's going on now with Iraq -- I mean, just the risks to the peninsula are just too great here?
DILLON: Oh absolutely, I do not think military option is off the table. There's always going to be a military option, the president, it would be irresponsible to say he's never going to use a military option with North Korea, but he's going to use diplomatic -- or use diplomatic means first -- and so, it's not on the table right now, but is certainly available to the president when he needs it.
SAN MIGUEL: And the ideas of also -- the differences here between how the U.S. is using its allies and its neighbors in Iraq, in the Iraq -- in the Persian Gulf region, and how its using the allies and the neighbors, South Korea, China, as you've mentioned with the North Korean situation, the biggest difference is here.
DILLON: Well in -- with the Iraq situation they have a lot of neighbors that are would like to be, at least would like to be friendly with Iraq. For example, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, they have other neighbors like Iran, which although is not friendly with Iraq is a -- is also a member of the axis of evil and also is a proliferator of nuclear weapons, or at least nuclear technology.
North Korea on the other hand, has -- is not friendly with South Korea, is not friendly with Japan, it is friendly with China, but China does not want a nuclear arms Korean peninsula, China has a lot of very good reasons to help bring North Korea out of the nuclear club and back into a peaceful negotiation with the international community. SAN MIGUEL: And one other quick question, we got about 30 seconds left, Iraqis had tried, has tried to stoke anti-western sentiment in he region here, and then you may have heard the report 10,000 people rallying in Pyongyang as North Korea tries to drive a wedge between the U.S. and Seoul; your thoughts about these different tactics here.
DILLON: Well, yes, essentially it's the same tactic as you're, as you're noting they're trying to drive a wedge between the international community and the United States, but the 10,000 people in North Korea, at least off the clips I saw, they are obviously, you know, brought there, they're all (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and shouting, and shaking their fists in unison -- so, it's obviously not -- they're not expressing opinion of North Koreans, they're expression opinion of Kim Jung Il.
And I don't think in either case they're going to be successful, because nobody wants either Iraq or North Korea to have nuclear weapons.
SAN MIGUEL: I'm -- you know, what I meant to say, similarities in the tactics, not the differences, you're exactly right, it is the same kind of strategy being used here. Dana Dillon, senior policy analyst with the Heritage Foundation, thanks so much for joining us this morning.
DILLON: Thank you, thanks for having me.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
