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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Chester Gillis

Aired December 29, 2002 - 07:39   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: The Roman Catholic Church has spent much of this past year reeling from the stunning sex scandal involving abusive priests and some passive leaders. These events have also raised daunting questions about the church's resilience, legal, financial and spiritual questions have been raised.
Joining us now to discuss this crisis and the challenges that lie ahead is Chester Gillis. He's a professor of theology at Georgetown University. And professor, I would imagine you could add a class there at Georgetown on just this past year alone?

CHESTER GILLIS, GEORGETOWN UNIV.: Oh indeed we could. Not long ago, the queen of England used an oft quoted phrase for the royal family's year, saying it was honis horriblis.

CALLAWAY: Yes.

GILLIS: And I think the American church has experienced the most horrible year in its history this year.

CALLAWAY: You know, no need to really look back on this too much. It's certainly had its day in the sun, everything that's happened. But what's going to happen in 2003? The scandal really is not over. We've seen the resignation of Law. What now?

GILLIS: Well, I think that the church has begun to address the causes of the scandal, but the consequences of the scandal are long term, months and perhaps years. There's been a significant loss of confidence in the church in general. And particularly, a loss of confidence in the hierarchy, a lowering of esteem of the priesthood, a lack of moral authority on the church's part now among American Catholics.

And all of those are severe consequences of this crises.

CALLAWAY: You know, you've mentioned these things. The morale is low. Now there's financial problems. Who's going to be the person in America to lead this church?

GILLIS: Well, some have come out of this I can't say completely unscathed. I think everyone's been somewhat tarnished by the crisis by their association, but people like Bishop Wilton Gregory has come across very well to the American public I think and handled the crises with a certain amount of...

CALLAWAY: Right, he certainly addressed it rather quickly, didn't he?

GILLIS: Yes, he did. And he handled the relationship with Rome and with the other bishops and with victims quite tactfully in general. Cardinal George from Chicago has also emerged as a leader in this crisis.

CALLAWAY: We're looking now at video. That was video of Wilton Gregory, Bishop Gregory. And I believe this is -- and this is Cardinal Francis just now out of Chicago.

GILLIS: Cardinal George. And part of that is because his predecessor, Cardinal Bernadine, had set up processes already to address these issues a long time ago. So he came into a circumstance in Chicago that was already in very good shape. And he managed that quite well. And he also managed negotiations with the Vatican.

CALLAWAY: Yes, Bernadine is still being felt there in Chicago.

GILLIS: Yes, there's no doubt about that. So I think also Archbishop McKerrick in Washington, Cardinal McKerrick has been a very good spokesperson with the media. He has a very good pastoral sense about him. And I think he'll have the ability to restore trust for American Catholics. And I think they take him to be sincere and to be open about the crises, which is very, very important.

CALLAWAY: It seems to me, looking at it from the outside here, that there almost needs to be a PR representative for the church at this point, to go and spread the word and help improve the situation, the morale.

GILLIS: Well, part -- I think maybe a PR representative would be a nice idea, but I think what the church needs to do is to clean up its act, and to be transparent, and to be more collegial in the leadership among -- both in Rome and among the Bishops to include the people of God in that leadership. And I think that the proof will be there more than putting a spin on it.

There's not a very good spin you can put on this.

CALLAWAY: No, there's not, but it would be -- but to have someone who would address it openly to come to your church and answer your questions and your concerns.

GILLIS: Yes, and I think many local churches have had this -- have tried to do this very much. Sometimes -- while the esteem for the priesthood has been lowered, in general, in parishes, people have a great deal of confidence in their parish priests.

CALLAWAY: Right.

GILLIS: Particularly when they know him and when he's hardworking and trustworthy, then priests can address this issue locally. And I think many have done that and with great success.

CALLAWAY: Do you feel like members of the church feel like this situation has been handled that this -- if this were to happen again, that there would be a clear agenda for the church to follow?

GILLIS: Well, I think this depends upon who you ask. Certainly the hierarchy thinks that they've addressed it sufficiently. Hopefully, Rome understands the egregious nature of this - the circumstances in America and will not allow this to happen again, but there are others, those who have been victims and some among the faithful who think that the church has not fully addressed all the issues and the church has not been as forthcoming as it could be. And there's still a culture of secrecy, which is devastating for the church's moral authority.

CALLAWAY: What about leadership from Rome? Difficult to speculate, but how is that going to change?

GILLIS: Well, clearly, since the pope is feeble and in the twilight of his papacy, there's a kind of bated breath about who might be the next pope.

And there's lots of speculation about that. But to speculate about that idly usually turns out to be wrong. There's a saying in Rome that he who goes into a conclave a cardinal -- a pope, comes out a cardinal. That front runners don't often win.

CALLAWAY: They...

GILLIS: But if we get -- I'm sorry, go ahead.

CALLAWAY: They think they never win. Every time there has been speculation, it's never been the lead runner there, I guess. And your final thoughts? I'm sorry, I interrupted you.

GILLIS: Well, often there are surprises, but if we get someone who's ideologically doctrinally conservative and centralizing control of the church, such as John Paul II has done much of his papacies, some of that to the good, some of that to the ill, there probably won't be a lot of changes, but you never know. In 1958, the cardinals elected a cardinal among them who was older and they thought would just be a temporary person on the throne. And he called Vatican too and changed the church dramatically. So there is a possibility of something like that happening this time as well.

CALLAWAY: Yes, indeed, a lot of challenges ahead for the Catholic Church. Chester Gillis, thank you very much for being with us this morning.

GILLIS: Thank you, Catherine. Have a good day.

CALLAWAY: You, too.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 29, 2002 - 07:39   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: The Roman Catholic Church has spent much of this past year reeling from the stunning sex scandal involving abusive priests and some passive leaders. These events have also raised daunting questions about the church's resilience, legal, financial and spiritual questions have been raised.
Joining us now to discuss this crisis and the challenges that lie ahead is Chester Gillis. He's a professor of theology at Georgetown University. And professor, I would imagine you could add a class there at Georgetown on just this past year alone?

CHESTER GILLIS, GEORGETOWN UNIV.: Oh indeed we could. Not long ago, the queen of England used an oft quoted phrase for the royal family's year, saying it was honis horriblis.

CALLAWAY: Yes.

GILLIS: And I think the American church has experienced the most horrible year in its history this year.

CALLAWAY: You know, no need to really look back on this too much. It's certainly had its day in the sun, everything that's happened. But what's going to happen in 2003? The scandal really is not over. We've seen the resignation of Law. What now?

GILLIS: Well, I think that the church has begun to address the causes of the scandal, but the consequences of the scandal are long term, months and perhaps years. There's been a significant loss of confidence in the church in general. And particularly, a loss of confidence in the hierarchy, a lowering of esteem of the priesthood, a lack of moral authority on the church's part now among American Catholics.

And all of those are severe consequences of this crises.

CALLAWAY: You know, you've mentioned these things. The morale is low. Now there's financial problems. Who's going to be the person in America to lead this church?

GILLIS: Well, some have come out of this I can't say completely unscathed. I think everyone's been somewhat tarnished by the crisis by their association, but people like Bishop Wilton Gregory has come across very well to the American public I think and handled the crises with a certain amount of...

CALLAWAY: Right, he certainly addressed it rather quickly, didn't he?

GILLIS: Yes, he did. And he handled the relationship with Rome and with the other bishops and with victims quite tactfully in general. Cardinal George from Chicago has also emerged as a leader in this crisis.

CALLAWAY: We're looking now at video. That was video of Wilton Gregory, Bishop Gregory. And I believe this is -- and this is Cardinal Francis just now out of Chicago.

GILLIS: Cardinal George. And part of that is because his predecessor, Cardinal Bernadine, had set up processes already to address these issues a long time ago. So he came into a circumstance in Chicago that was already in very good shape. And he managed that quite well. And he also managed negotiations with the Vatican.

CALLAWAY: Yes, Bernadine is still being felt there in Chicago.

GILLIS: Yes, there's no doubt about that. So I think also Archbishop McKerrick in Washington, Cardinal McKerrick has been a very good spokesperson with the media. He has a very good pastoral sense about him. And I think he'll have the ability to restore trust for American Catholics. And I think they take him to be sincere and to be open about the crises, which is very, very important.

CALLAWAY: It seems to me, looking at it from the outside here, that there almost needs to be a PR representative for the church at this point, to go and spread the word and help improve the situation, the morale.

GILLIS: Well, part -- I think maybe a PR representative would be a nice idea, but I think what the church needs to do is to clean up its act, and to be transparent, and to be more collegial in the leadership among -- both in Rome and among the Bishops to include the people of God in that leadership. And I think that the proof will be there more than putting a spin on it.

There's not a very good spin you can put on this.

CALLAWAY: No, there's not, but it would be -- but to have someone who would address it openly to come to your church and answer your questions and your concerns.

GILLIS: Yes, and I think many local churches have had this -- have tried to do this very much. Sometimes -- while the esteem for the priesthood has been lowered, in general, in parishes, people have a great deal of confidence in their parish priests.

CALLAWAY: Right.

GILLIS: Particularly when they know him and when he's hardworking and trustworthy, then priests can address this issue locally. And I think many have done that and with great success.

CALLAWAY: Do you feel like members of the church feel like this situation has been handled that this -- if this were to happen again, that there would be a clear agenda for the church to follow?

GILLIS: Well, I think this depends upon who you ask. Certainly the hierarchy thinks that they've addressed it sufficiently. Hopefully, Rome understands the egregious nature of this - the circumstances in America and will not allow this to happen again, but there are others, those who have been victims and some among the faithful who think that the church has not fully addressed all the issues and the church has not been as forthcoming as it could be. And there's still a culture of secrecy, which is devastating for the church's moral authority.

CALLAWAY: What about leadership from Rome? Difficult to speculate, but how is that going to change?

GILLIS: Well, clearly, since the pope is feeble and in the twilight of his papacy, there's a kind of bated breath about who might be the next pope.

And there's lots of speculation about that. But to speculate about that idly usually turns out to be wrong. There's a saying in Rome that he who goes into a conclave a cardinal -- a pope, comes out a cardinal. That front runners don't often win.

CALLAWAY: They...

GILLIS: But if we get -- I'm sorry, go ahead.

CALLAWAY: They think they never win. Every time there has been speculation, it's never been the lead runner there, I guess. And your final thoughts? I'm sorry, I interrupted you.

GILLIS: Well, often there are surprises, but if we get someone who's ideologically doctrinally conservative and centralizing control of the church, such as John Paul II has done much of his papacies, some of that to the good, some of that to the ill, there probably won't be a lot of changes, but you never know. In 1958, the cardinals elected a cardinal among them who was older and they thought would just be a temporary person on the throne. And he called Vatican too and changed the church dramatically. So there is a possibility of something like that happening this time as well.

CALLAWAY: Yes, indeed, a lot of challenges ahead for the Catholic Church. Chester Gillis, thank you very much for being with us this morning.

GILLIS: Thank you, Catherine. Have a good day.

CALLAWAY: You, too.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com