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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Robert Lanza

Aired December 29, 2002 - 07:48   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: The world is still waiting to see whether the first cloned baby actually exists. French chemists Brigitte Boisselier, the head of a company that's called Clonaid, announced on Friday that the first cloned baby girl had been born, a day earlier at an undisclosed location. Well, the scientific community has met the cloning announcement with some skepticism, to say the least.
Joining us this morning from Boston for a discussion about these developments and about cloning -- therapeutic cloning, that is, Dr. Robert Lanza, therapeutic cloning is the cloning of various cells, not actual human embryos. And he's with us now to talk a little bit about this.

Doctor, thanks for getting up, being with us this morning.

ROBERT LANZA: You're welcome, good morning.

CALLAWAY: Good morning to you. I have to think that the latest developments the last couple of days have concerned you a little bit because of the type of research that you do could be confused with perhaps what this company claims to have done?

LANZA: Absolutely. We're very concerned that it could generate a backlash against an area of medical research that could literally cure millions of Americans.

CALLAWAY: Tell us a little bit about therapeutic cloning and the difference between what you do and what this company has claimed to have done?

LANZA: Well, therapeutic cloning is when you actually generate cells in a Petri dish, stem cells, that can be used for medical purposes. That's in contrast to reproductive cloning, where your goal is to generate a baby. So say for instance you had heart disease, what we could do is grow you out some new heart cells. And of course, through cloning, these would be your own cells, so your body wouldn't reject them. Or alternatively, if you had diabetes, we could create you new insulin producing cells.

CALLAWAY: And -- but your company claims that it has cloned a human embryo? In fact, that was like November of last year?

LANZA: They were very early stage embryos at the four to eight cell stage. Of course, to generate embryonic stem cells, you would need a larger embryo than that. I think one of our concerns for the reproductive purposes here, though, is that very early stage embryos are routinely used in IVF clinics. For instance...

CALLAWAY: Right.

LANZA: ...at the four to eight cell stage, to generate a baby. So we're concerned that those early stage embryos, if abused by the wrong group, could be doing something very much like the Raelians.

CALLAWAY: But do you think it's possible? You know, there's so much speculation. And we've heard from so many scientists on yes, it could be done. We're far from no. We're far from seeing this done. Could that human embryo be fertilized, implanted in a female, and indeed, a baby be born?

LANZA: Well, I think the science does exist, in fact, to create obviously an early stage human embryo. I'm highly skeptical of this particular group because they have absolutely no scientific track record and no scientific papers. And they have never even cloned an animal for that matter.

CALLAWAY: The dangers of this, we've heard a lot about the last couple of days. So many problems with animals that have been cloned?

LANZA: Absolutely. In all the species that have been cloned to date, there have been defects and abnormalities. We see major cardiovascular disorders, immune problems, obesity. So yes, there's a very real chance that this procedure could lead to a defective child.

CALLAWAY: Dr. Lanza.

LANZA: And even if the child...

CALLAWAY: Go ahead.

LANZA: ...even if the child were to be born healthy, we do know from our animals that they can subsequently develop problems. For instance, in some of our cows, that are now approaching middle age, we're starting to see for instance in one animal a tumor. Another, developed grand mal seizures. So again, even if the baby is born healthy, it's not home free.

CALLAWAY: You know, you're right in the middle of this advance cell technology, Dr. Lanza, but yet you've seen these actions by this company Clonaid. What do you think, if anything, should be done to limit this kind of research?

LANZA: I think we need a worldwide ban. I think the United Nations had the right idea several months ago. They had proposed to ban this worldwide. I think it was the United States actually in fact that frustrated that effort. I think that we need that ban ASAP. In fact, we needed it many months ago. We do need to stop this sort of activity.

CALLAWAY: And you need it to be specific, so that you could continue your research?

LANZA: Absolutely. I think that literally there are tens of millions of people who could benefit from this technology, and it would be tragic if that legitimate application were to be terminated because of a moratorium or a ban.

CALLAWAY: Is your -- Dr. Lanza, is your community in a buzz now from these developments on Friday?

LANZA: Yes, I think we'll all extremely appalled about this. I think that, you know, all of us have tried to be responsive, but we're mainly concerned with using this technology to alleviate pain and suffering and to have these rogue groups out there doing something that the entire medical and scientific community unanimously is against certainly is not helpful for this cause.

CALLAWAY: All right, Dr. Robert Lanza, thank you for being with us this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 29, 2002 - 07:48   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: The world is still waiting to see whether the first cloned baby actually exists. French chemists Brigitte Boisselier, the head of a company that's called Clonaid, announced on Friday that the first cloned baby girl had been born, a day earlier at an undisclosed location. Well, the scientific community has met the cloning announcement with some skepticism, to say the least.
Joining us this morning from Boston for a discussion about these developments and about cloning -- therapeutic cloning, that is, Dr. Robert Lanza, therapeutic cloning is the cloning of various cells, not actual human embryos. And he's with us now to talk a little bit about this.

Doctor, thanks for getting up, being with us this morning.

ROBERT LANZA: You're welcome, good morning.

CALLAWAY: Good morning to you. I have to think that the latest developments the last couple of days have concerned you a little bit because of the type of research that you do could be confused with perhaps what this company claims to have done?

LANZA: Absolutely. We're very concerned that it could generate a backlash against an area of medical research that could literally cure millions of Americans.

CALLAWAY: Tell us a little bit about therapeutic cloning and the difference between what you do and what this company has claimed to have done?

LANZA: Well, therapeutic cloning is when you actually generate cells in a Petri dish, stem cells, that can be used for medical purposes. That's in contrast to reproductive cloning, where your goal is to generate a baby. So say for instance you had heart disease, what we could do is grow you out some new heart cells. And of course, through cloning, these would be your own cells, so your body wouldn't reject them. Or alternatively, if you had diabetes, we could create you new insulin producing cells.

CALLAWAY: And -- but your company claims that it has cloned a human embryo? In fact, that was like November of last year?

LANZA: They were very early stage embryos at the four to eight cell stage. Of course, to generate embryonic stem cells, you would need a larger embryo than that. I think one of our concerns for the reproductive purposes here, though, is that very early stage embryos are routinely used in IVF clinics. For instance...

CALLAWAY: Right.

LANZA: ...at the four to eight cell stage, to generate a baby. So we're concerned that those early stage embryos, if abused by the wrong group, could be doing something very much like the Raelians.

CALLAWAY: But do you think it's possible? You know, there's so much speculation. And we've heard from so many scientists on yes, it could be done. We're far from no. We're far from seeing this done. Could that human embryo be fertilized, implanted in a female, and indeed, a baby be born?

LANZA: Well, I think the science does exist, in fact, to create obviously an early stage human embryo. I'm highly skeptical of this particular group because they have absolutely no scientific track record and no scientific papers. And they have never even cloned an animal for that matter.

CALLAWAY: The dangers of this, we've heard a lot about the last couple of days. So many problems with animals that have been cloned?

LANZA: Absolutely. In all the species that have been cloned to date, there have been defects and abnormalities. We see major cardiovascular disorders, immune problems, obesity. So yes, there's a very real chance that this procedure could lead to a defective child.

CALLAWAY: Dr. Lanza.

LANZA: And even if the child...

CALLAWAY: Go ahead.

LANZA: ...even if the child were to be born healthy, we do know from our animals that they can subsequently develop problems. For instance, in some of our cows, that are now approaching middle age, we're starting to see for instance in one animal a tumor. Another, developed grand mal seizures. So again, even if the baby is born healthy, it's not home free.

CALLAWAY: You know, you're right in the middle of this advance cell technology, Dr. Lanza, but yet you've seen these actions by this company Clonaid. What do you think, if anything, should be done to limit this kind of research?

LANZA: I think we need a worldwide ban. I think the United Nations had the right idea several months ago. They had proposed to ban this worldwide. I think it was the United States actually in fact that frustrated that effort. I think that we need that ban ASAP. In fact, we needed it many months ago. We do need to stop this sort of activity.

CALLAWAY: And you need it to be specific, so that you could continue your research?

LANZA: Absolutely. I think that literally there are tens of millions of people who could benefit from this technology, and it would be tragic if that legitimate application were to be terminated because of a moratorium or a ban.

CALLAWAY: Is your -- Dr. Lanza, is your community in a buzz now from these developments on Friday?

LANZA: Yes, I think we'll all extremely appalled about this. I think that, you know, all of us have tried to be responsive, but we're mainly concerned with using this technology to alleviate pain and suffering and to have these rogue groups out there doing something that the entire medical and scientific community unanimously is against certainly is not helpful for this cause.

CALLAWAY: All right, Dr. Robert Lanza, thank you for being with us this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com