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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Kellyann Conway, Robert Zimmerman

Aired January 05, 2003 - 09:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Democratic candidates are lining up, ready to take on President Bush in the 2004 elections.
For some political perspective on the Democratic hopefuls and the Republican strategy, we turn to Kellyanne Conway; she's the president of the polling company. Hi, Kellyanne.

Robert Zimmerman, a Democratic consultant. Hello, Robert.

And our senior political...

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good to be with you.

COLLINS: Thank you, Robert. And our senior political analyst, William Schneider.

Good morning to you all, and we do thank you for being here. We want to go ahead and start with William Schneider, our senior political analyst.

May I call you Bill?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, you may.

COLLINS: OK. Kind of used to seeing you as Bill Schneider.

Let's talk just for a minute, if we could, lay out for us who is going to be running, or who is saying they're going to be running, anyway. I know there's quite a few guys out there.

SCHNEIDER: Well, there are people who have said they're going to run, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, Dick Gephardt just last week indicated that he's going to form an exploratory committee, the former house Democratic leader.

Al Sharpton has been making noises about running. Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, has indicated quite clearly he's going to run and the freshman senator from North Carolina, John Edwards.

That's about five who have given pretty clear indications.

Tom Daschle, the former Democratic leader, still the Democratic leader, but the former majority leader of the United States Senate, he's going to let us know in a couple of weeks, probably by the end of the month, whether he's going to run for office, run for the presidency. Joe Lieberman, who was on the ticket with Al Gore, and then there are a couple of others. He's the senator from Connecticut. Senator Bob Graham of Florida is considering it, Chris Dodge, Joe Biden. There's a long list.

COLLINS: OK. Let's get right to it, and I'd like to hear from all of you on this if I could. Can anybody beat Bush?

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.

COLLINS: Absolutely?

ZIMMERMAN: And let me just say, I guess the first question is who's not running, if you look at the extent of that list.

Having so many substantial Democrats come forward and run clearly indicates the Democratic Party has really regained its footing after 2002 and it's running a very experienced, accomplished team.

And I think the reason for that is that even though George Bush's approval ratings are at 61 percent, his reelect numbers, when you ask the next question, are you committed to his reelection, are in the low 40s.

And I think poll after poll has shown the country is increasingly concerned about the direction it's going in economically. There's great ambivalence about the war in Iraq. And of course, as the country is losing 69,000 jobs a month under the Bush Administration, there's growing concern about a need to regain fiscal credibility and fiscal stability.

COLLINS: KellyAnne, do you agree that the Democrats are coming together?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, PRESIDENT, THE POLLING COMPANY: No, there's very little indication of that. And the reason is very simple.

If you look at even who the field of candidates and prospective candidates is made up, like Bill Schneider a moment ago, you can really see that there's going to be a tug for the ideological mantle of the Democratic Party within its primary caucus situation.

In other words, you have Al Sharpton, in just the last day or so, saying he wants to reclaim the liberal wing of the Democratic Party, move it in that direction. John Edwards, someone like that, already votes that way.

Dick Gephardt and John Edwards share something very similar in common, if not Tom Daschle as well, which is they failed to capture a majority of members to where they were already responsible.

In other words, Dick Gephardt failed to reclaim majority status in the House four times, four elections in a row since 1994. The Democrats, what befits them to run the whole country?

John Edwards did very little to help that Senate seat being vacated by Jesse Helms in North Carolina to go in Democratic hands. Elizabeth Dole won the seat.

So I feel like all these men have demonstrated political skills, there's no doubt. Many of them have Rolodex and fund-raising powers.

But I admire them, if for nothing else, for being out there, being sacrificial lambs. You have someone like Hillary Clinton taking a pass in 2004 because she's not someone who's taken any risks in her career.

It's a risk to be a Democrat and to go against this president, who remains not just very popular, but people are answering in the affirmative, I like him and he is like me. It's going to be tough, but before they face George W. Bush, they have to face each other.

ZIMMERMAN: You know, Kellyann, it sounds like you're using the talking points from the first Bush reelection campaign. With two years to go, with the direction the economy is moving in, and of course, with the failure of this administration to provide support for homeland security at home...

CONWAY: They created a whole department.

ZIMMERMAN: The Democrats campaign -- Let me finish my point.

They've created a department, but they've not provided any support or guidance for security, whether it's commuter railways, whether it's bridges and tunnels, domestic security, which is so critical.

I think you're going to see Democratic candidates out there putting forward their ideas and campaigning. And I think ultimately, the party will be stronger for that.

CONWAY: I can't imagine anyone believes what you're saying when this administration has created a Department of Homeland Security, has appointed Tom Ridge to head it up and has spent untoward amounts of resources in trying to shore up our defenses.

That's the one issue where...

COLLINS: Bill Schneider -- Bill Schneider can you jump in here and tell us what you think about the two going back and forth on these issues.

SCHNEIDER: I think what we're seeing here is exactly the opposite of what happened in 1991, before the 1992 election, after the Gulf War. George Bush, the first George Bush looked formidable.

The answer to your question then would have been no, nobody can beat President Bush. He's a war hero, he has national security and Democrats started dropping out of the race, one after another. They all stood up, Al Gore, Jay Rockefeller, Mario Cuomo. They said they weren't going to run. And the field was getting very empty.

Now, what happens is Democrats have learned, two years is an eternity in politics. Look what happened to the first President Bush. In 1991, he stood astride the world, like a colossus: 90 percent approval rating. In 1992, he was toast.

So now, Democrats are saying the same thing could happen again. So now they're all getting into the race and crowding the field, because they think, who knows, a few months from now, George Bush, this George Bush could be just as bad off.

CONWAY: The other reason lots of Democrats are running, in my view, is because they look at each other and they look at some of the Democrats who are running and say, jeez, if they thinks he can run for president...

SCHNEIDER: That's true.

CONWAY: ... I better throw myself in there as well.

SCHNEIDER: That's true.

ZIMMERMAN: I think, also, one of the benefits that we have, as the campaign unfolds, is that poll after poll shows that on the issues, the Democratic Party does speak for the mainstream of America, whether it's prescription drugs, whether it's environmental protection, whether it's cracking down on corporate corruption.

And for this administration now, it's going to have to be held accountable. In 2000, George Bush's campaign...

COLLINS: Whatever...

ZIMMERMAN: Let me finish my point, Kellyann.

COLLINS: Actually, that was me, Heidi.

ZIMMERMAN: In 2000, George Bush campaigned and let the good times roll. I'm sorry.

COLLINS: That's all right, Robert. I do want to ask, because you feel this way, I would like to know what you think we've got the economic stimulus plan being rolled out on Tuesday.

What do you think that plan should be?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think clearly, that economic stimulus plan has got to focus on stimulating the economy. And of course, the first Bush economic team was terminated, as well, and obviously the fact that putting in a new stimulus plan indicates their first program did not succeed.

What they're doing, though, in the plan they're putting forward, according to Congressional Research Service, according to the Tax Policy Center, is not stimulating the economy. It's benefiting the top earners. And truly compromising those with middle income.

CONWAY: Let me try to cut through that partisan venom for a moment because the economic stimulus package is a very serious matter and it should be above politics.

You're going to see many Democrats, including those running for president, supportive of at least some of the principles of the president's economic plan. And I would imagine some of the first people asked to speak on the record after the president unveils the plan in Chicago on Tuesday, some of the first people asked to comment on this will be those presidential aspirants, the Democratic Party.

But let's be honest here, Bob. There are tax cuts in there across the board for lots of people. There's a reduction in corporate dividends. And the president has said recently...

ZIMMERMAN: Let's also be honest, Kellyann, about what the numbers are.

CONWAY: ... job creation is priority number one.

ZIMMERMAN: We're losing 69,000 jobs a month.

COLLINS: All right. Bill Schneider, can you get me out of this and kind of sum everything up for us today, please, Bill Schneider?

SCHNEIDER: Well, look, let me just say, this economy is a $10 trillion economy. The idea that the government can do something to turn the economy around, as if we're steering the economy, is not quite correct.

You know, Americans regard the president always as the commander- in-chief of the economy, especially since the end of the Cold War. But you know, nobody is commander-in-chief of the economy. And the idea that the government can just pass a bill and the economy will turn around, I think that's far -- that goes way beyond what anyone should expect.

COLLINS: Excellent points, all of you. I really appreciate you being here this morning for this animated discussion, at the least. Kellyann Conway, Robert Zimmerman and Bill Schneider, of course. Thank you again to you all.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 5, 2003 - 09:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Democratic candidates are lining up, ready to take on President Bush in the 2004 elections.
For some political perspective on the Democratic hopefuls and the Republican strategy, we turn to Kellyanne Conway; she's the president of the polling company. Hi, Kellyanne.

Robert Zimmerman, a Democratic consultant. Hello, Robert.

And our senior political...

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good to be with you.

COLLINS: Thank you, Robert. And our senior political analyst, William Schneider.

Good morning to you all, and we do thank you for being here. We want to go ahead and start with William Schneider, our senior political analyst.

May I call you Bill?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, you may.

COLLINS: OK. Kind of used to seeing you as Bill Schneider.

Let's talk just for a minute, if we could, lay out for us who is going to be running, or who is saying they're going to be running, anyway. I know there's quite a few guys out there.

SCHNEIDER: Well, there are people who have said they're going to run, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, Dick Gephardt just last week indicated that he's going to form an exploratory committee, the former house Democratic leader.

Al Sharpton has been making noises about running. Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, has indicated quite clearly he's going to run and the freshman senator from North Carolina, John Edwards.

That's about five who have given pretty clear indications.

Tom Daschle, the former Democratic leader, still the Democratic leader, but the former majority leader of the United States Senate, he's going to let us know in a couple of weeks, probably by the end of the month, whether he's going to run for office, run for the presidency. Joe Lieberman, who was on the ticket with Al Gore, and then there are a couple of others. He's the senator from Connecticut. Senator Bob Graham of Florida is considering it, Chris Dodge, Joe Biden. There's a long list.

COLLINS: OK. Let's get right to it, and I'd like to hear from all of you on this if I could. Can anybody beat Bush?

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.

COLLINS: Absolutely?

ZIMMERMAN: And let me just say, I guess the first question is who's not running, if you look at the extent of that list.

Having so many substantial Democrats come forward and run clearly indicates the Democratic Party has really regained its footing after 2002 and it's running a very experienced, accomplished team.

And I think the reason for that is that even though George Bush's approval ratings are at 61 percent, his reelect numbers, when you ask the next question, are you committed to his reelection, are in the low 40s.

And I think poll after poll has shown the country is increasingly concerned about the direction it's going in economically. There's great ambivalence about the war in Iraq. And of course, as the country is losing 69,000 jobs a month under the Bush Administration, there's growing concern about a need to regain fiscal credibility and fiscal stability.

COLLINS: KellyAnne, do you agree that the Democrats are coming together?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, PRESIDENT, THE POLLING COMPANY: No, there's very little indication of that. And the reason is very simple.

If you look at even who the field of candidates and prospective candidates is made up, like Bill Schneider a moment ago, you can really see that there's going to be a tug for the ideological mantle of the Democratic Party within its primary caucus situation.

In other words, you have Al Sharpton, in just the last day or so, saying he wants to reclaim the liberal wing of the Democratic Party, move it in that direction. John Edwards, someone like that, already votes that way.

Dick Gephardt and John Edwards share something very similar in common, if not Tom Daschle as well, which is they failed to capture a majority of members to where they were already responsible.

In other words, Dick Gephardt failed to reclaim majority status in the House four times, four elections in a row since 1994. The Democrats, what befits them to run the whole country?

John Edwards did very little to help that Senate seat being vacated by Jesse Helms in North Carolina to go in Democratic hands. Elizabeth Dole won the seat.

So I feel like all these men have demonstrated political skills, there's no doubt. Many of them have Rolodex and fund-raising powers.

But I admire them, if for nothing else, for being out there, being sacrificial lambs. You have someone like Hillary Clinton taking a pass in 2004 because she's not someone who's taken any risks in her career.

It's a risk to be a Democrat and to go against this president, who remains not just very popular, but people are answering in the affirmative, I like him and he is like me. It's going to be tough, but before they face George W. Bush, they have to face each other.

ZIMMERMAN: You know, Kellyann, it sounds like you're using the talking points from the first Bush reelection campaign. With two years to go, with the direction the economy is moving in, and of course, with the failure of this administration to provide support for homeland security at home...

CONWAY: They created a whole department.

ZIMMERMAN: The Democrats campaign -- Let me finish my point.

They've created a department, but they've not provided any support or guidance for security, whether it's commuter railways, whether it's bridges and tunnels, domestic security, which is so critical.

I think you're going to see Democratic candidates out there putting forward their ideas and campaigning. And I think ultimately, the party will be stronger for that.

CONWAY: I can't imagine anyone believes what you're saying when this administration has created a Department of Homeland Security, has appointed Tom Ridge to head it up and has spent untoward amounts of resources in trying to shore up our defenses.

That's the one issue where...

COLLINS: Bill Schneider -- Bill Schneider can you jump in here and tell us what you think about the two going back and forth on these issues.

SCHNEIDER: I think what we're seeing here is exactly the opposite of what happened in 1991, before the 1992 election, after the Gulf War. George Bush, the first George Bush looked formidable.

The answer to your question then would have been no, nobody can beat President Bush. He's a war hero, he has national security and Democrats started dropping out of the race, one after another. They all stood up, Al Gore, Jay Rockefeller, Mario Cuomo. They said they weren't going to run. And the field was getting very empty.

Now, what happens is Democrats have learned, two years is an eternity in politics. Look what happened to the first President Bush. In 1991, he stood astride the world, like a colossus: 90 percent approval rating. In 1992, he was toast.

So now, Democrats are saying the same thing could happen again. So now they're all getting into the race and crowding the field, because they think, who knows, a few months from now, George Bush, this George Bush could be just as bad off.

CONWAY: The other reason lots of Democrats are running, in my view, is because they look at each other and they look at some of the Democrats who are running and say, jeez, if they thinks he can run for president...

SCHNEIDER: That's true.

CONWAY: ... I better throw myself in there as well.

SCHNEIDER: That's true.

ZIMMERMAN: I think, also, one of the benefits that we have, as the campaign unfolds, is that poll after poll shows that on the issues, the Democratic Party does speak for the mainstream of America, whether it's prescription drugs, whether it's environmental protection, whether it's cracking down on corporate corruption.

And for this administration now, it's going to have to be held accountable. In 2000, George Bush's campaign...

COLLINS: Whatever...

ZIMMERMAN: Let me finish my point, Kellyann.

COLLINS: Actually, that was me, Heidi.

ZIMMERMAN: In 2000, George Bush campaigned and let the good times roll. I'm sorry.

COLLINS: That's all right, Robert. I do want to ask, because you feel this way, I would like to know what you think we've got the economic stimulus plan being rolled out on Tuesday.

What do you think that plan should be?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think clearly, that economic stimulus plan has got to focus on stimulating the economy. And of course, the first Bush economic team was terminated, as well, and obviously the fact that putting in a new stimulus plan indicates their first program did not succeed.

What they're doing, though, in the plan they're putting forward, according to Congressional Research Service, according to the Tax Policy Center, is not stimulating the economy. It's benefiting the top earners. And truly compromising those with middle income.

CONWAY: Let me try to cut through that partisan venom for a moment because the economic stimulus package is a very serious matter and it should be above politics.

You're going to see many Democrats, including those running for president, supportive of at least some of the principles of the president's economic plan. And I would imagine some of the first people asked to speak on the record after the president unveils the plan in Chicago on Tuesday, some of the first people asked to comment on this will be those presidential aspirants, the Democratic Party.

But let's be honest here, Bob. There are tax cuts in there across the board for lots of people. There's a reduction in corporate dividends. And the president has said recently...

ZIMMERMAN: Let's also be honest, Kellyann, about what the numbers are.

CONWAY: ... job creation is priority number one.

ZIMMERMAN: We're losing 69,000 jobs a month.

COLLINS: All right. Bill Schneider, can you get me out of this and kind of sum everything up for us today, please, Bill Schneider?

SCHNEIDER: Well, look, let me just say, this economy is a $10 trillion economy. The idea that the government can do something to turn the economy around, as if we're steering the economy, is not quite correct.

You know, Americans regard the president always as the commander- in-chief of the economy, especially since the end of the Cold War. But you know, nobody is commander-in-chief of the economy. And the idea that the government can just pass a bill and the economy will turn around, I think that's far -- that goes way beyond what anyone should expect.

COLLINS: Excellent points, all of you. I really appreciate you being here this morning for this animated discussion, at the least. Kellyann Conway, Robert Zimmerman and Bill Schneider, of course. Thank you again to you all.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com