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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Tom Geraghty
Aired January 12, 2003 - 09:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Leroy Orange's attorney is Tom Geraghty, who joins us now from CNN's Chicago bureau. Good morning to you, sir. Thank you for being here.
TOM GERAGHTY, ATTORNEY FOR LEROY ORANGE: Good morning.
COLLINS: Tell us what Leroy's reaction was right away to this. He spoke with Jeff Flock, and obviously, he was surprised.
GERAGHTY: Yes. When we first spoke to him on Friday morning, he didn't believe that this had happened. And he said he wouldn't believe it until he actually walked out of the jail, which fortunately, he did later on that day. And he is still, I think, in a state of shock, and also has an enormous amount of gratitude to the governor for taking the courageous step that he took.
COLLINS: Could you remind us, sir what he was convicted of? I know this happened in 1985.
GERAGHTY: Yes. He was convicted of participating in the murder of four individuals on the South Side of Chicago.
COLLINS: Can you give us any more details on that?
GERAGHTY: Well, his conviction was based solely upon a confession that was tortured from him at the now notorious Area 2 police station. The investigation was conducted by a detective John Burge (ph), who is now the object of a special prosecutor's investigation in Cook County with respect to allegations that Detective Burge (ph), for a long period of time during the early '80s, participated and led torture of suspects at the Area 2 police station.
COLLINS: Right. And the victims who were Orange's former girlfriend, Renee Coleman (ph), her son, Anthony, he was 10 years old, Michele Joiner (ph), 30 and Ricardo Pedro (ph), has Leroy ever talked to you about them?
GERAGHTY: Leroy has certainly talked to me about them, and he, as you said, was their friend. And he was devastated by what happened. He had nothing to do with the murders and he still misses his friends.
COLLINS: Tell us what you think about how significant of a moment this is.
GERAGHTY: Well, I think this is very significant. I think that Governor Ryan's courageous action on Friday when he pardoned the four death row inmates and yesterday when he commuted the sentences of others demonstrates that it's very important for us to take a critical look at our justice system and the way in which it metes out capital punishment.
When I first started practicing in this area 14 years ago, the first case I was assigned was Leroy Orange's, and I found that he'd been tortured. I was then assigned another case, and I found that the judge was a corrupt judge, who is now serving time in a federal penitentiary. The next case I got was a case involving a man who pled guilty and was sentenced to death while under psychotropic medication when nobody knew that he was taking psychotropic medication.
And I can go on and on in the cases that I've handled in which those kinds of problems repeatedly arise, and yet they're not addressed at the trial court level, and sometimes they're not even addressed at the appellate court level. So my experience tells me, just based on this random assignment of cases that I've received during the last 14 years, that Governor Ryan's action was entirely appropriate.
COLLINS: And so when you have a system that is defunct, in the words of Governor Ryan, is that, then, obviously, in your opinion, the next step, to offer this blanket clemency?
GERAGHTY: I think that's the next step. I think that we just can't take the risk of executing people who are either innocent, who shouldn't have received the death penalty, whose investigations, police investigations, attorney representation were flawed, and we have demonstrated, I think, in Illinois that we have a system that is irreparably broken. And until the powers that be, the prosecutors and the judiciary are willing to adapt the suggestions of the Ryan commission, which were entirely sensible and came out of a commission chaired by a former prosecutor, we simply should not even think of putting defendants to death who were convicted under that old flawed system.
COLLINS: All right. Tom Geraghty, the attorney for Leroy Orange, who was offered a pardon two days ago. Thank you, sir, for being here. We appreciate your time.
GERAGHTY: Thank you for having me.
COLLINS: Death penalty opponents are already moving to secure a Nobel Peace Prize nomination for Governor George Ryan, but families of the victims say Ryan betrayed them, their slain loved ones and justice itself. Reporter Alita Ewing (ph) of CNN Chicago affiliate WBBM has their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you know, the death penalty issue is a very emotional issue.
ALITA EWING, WBBM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The news came mid- morning, a two-page letter from Governor George Ryan to Dawn Pushell (ph), explaining why her brother and sister-in-law's murderers will be taken off death row.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "May God bless you, sincerely, Governor George Ryan." It's pretty bad.
EWING: Bad, she says, because there was no question of innocence in the case against Jerry and Reginald Mahafy (ph), the two brothers convicted of killing Dean and Jo Ellen Pushell (ph) in their North Side apartment nearly 20 years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes you feel sick and nauseous that he did this.
EWING: Her feelings are shared by other victims' families.
DANIEL VARGAS, VICTIM'S RELATIVE: We're destroyed. I mean...
EWING: Daniel Vargas' aunt, Sarah Cordona (ph), was stabbed and raped while her son watched. John Childress (ph) was sentenced to die for the crime, his second murder. Daniel now wonders if the governor had made up his mind before last year's emotionally draining clemency hearings.
VARGAS: If he would have went case by case, he would have seen that, you know, a lot of cases didn't deserve clemency, especially ours.
EWING: What is confusing to all of these families is why. Some believe the governor was trying to move focus from his own federal investigation to this, just in time for his Nobel Peace Prize nomination.
NAOMI MICHAEL CLARK, VICTIM'S RELATIVE: It just seems like my son never existed, or the other people who are gone. It's just -- it's just gone. That's all.
EWING: Whatever the reason for all these families, it has opened old wounds, which now they say may never heal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they're not breathing anymore we will have a sense of peace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: From our Chicago affiliate, WBBM, that report.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 12, 2003 - 09:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Leroy Orange's attorney is Tom Geraghty, who joins us now from CNN's Chicago bureau. Good morning to you, sir. Thank you for being here.
TOM GERAGHTY, ATTORNEY FOR LEROY ORANGE: Good morning.
COLLINS: Tell us what Leroy's reaction was right away to this. He spoke with Jeff Flock, and obviously, he was surprised.
GERAGHTY: Yes. When we first spoke to him on Friday morning, he didn't believe that this had happened. And he said he wouldn't believe it until he actually walked out of the jail, which fortunately, he did later on that day. And he is still, I think, in a state of shock, and also has an enormous amount of gratitude to the governor for taking the courageous step that he took.
COLLINS: Could you remind us, sir what he was convicted of? I know this happened in 1985.
GERAGHTY: Yes. He was convicted of participating in the murder of four individuals on the South Side of Chicago.
COLLINS: Can you give us any more details on that?
GERAGHTY: Well, his conviction was based solely upon a confession that was tortured from him at the now notorious Area 2 police station. The investigation was conducted by a detective John Burge (ph), who is now the object of a special prosecutor's investigation in Cook County with respect to allegations that Detective Burge (ph), for a long period of time during the early '80s, participated and led torture of suspects at the Area 2 police station.
COLLINS: Right. And the victims who were Orange's former girlfriend, Renee Coleman (ph), her son, Anthony, he was 10 years old, Michele Joiner (ph), 30 and Ricardo Pedro (ph), has Leroy ever talked to you about them?
GERAGHTY: Leroy has certainly talked to me about them, and he, as you said, was their friend. And he was devastated by what happened. He had nothing to do with the murders and he still misses his friends.
COLLINS: Tell us what you think about how significant of a moment this is.
GERAGHTY: Well, I think this is very significant. I think that Governor Ryan's courageous action on Friday when he pardoned the four death row inmates and yesterday when he commuted the sentences of others demonstrates that it's very important for us to take a critical look at our justice system and the way in which it metes out capital punishment.
When I first started practicing in this area 14 years ago, the first case I was assigned was Leroy Orange's, and I found that he'd been tortured. I was then assigned another case, and I found that the judge was a corrupt judge, who is now serving time in a federal penitentiary. The next case I got was a case involving a man who pled guilty and was sentenced to death while under psychotropic medication when nobody knew that he was taking psychotropic medication.
And I can go on and on in the cases that I've handled in which those kinds of problems repeatedly arise, and yet they're not addressed at the trial court level, and sometimes they're not even addressed at the appellate court level. So my experience tells me, just based on this random assignment of cases that I've received during the last 14 years, that Governor Ryan's action was entirely appropriate.
COLLINS: And so when you have a system that is defunct, in the words of Governor Ryan, is that, then, obviously, in your opinion, the next step, to offer this blanket clemency?
GERAGHTY: I think that's the next step. I think that we just can't take the risk of executing people who are either innocent, who shouldn't have received the death penalty, whose investigations, police investigations, attorney representation were flawed, and we have demonstrated, I think, in Illinois that we have a system that is irreparably broken. And until the powers that be, the prosecutors and the judiciary are willing to adapt the suggestions of the Ryan commission, which were entirely sensible and came out of a commission chaired by a former prosecutor, we simply should not even think of putting defendants to death who were convicted under that old flawed system.
COLLINS: All right. Tom Geraghty, the attorney for Leroy Orange, who was offered a pardon two days ago. Thank you, sir, for being here. We appreciate your time.
GERAGHTY: Thank you for having me.
COLLINS: Death penalty opponents are already moving to secure a Nobel Peace Prize nomination for Governor George Ryan, but families of the victims say Ryan betrayed them, their slain loved ones and justice itself. Reporter Alita Ewing (ph) of CNN Chicago affiliate WBBM has their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you know, the death penalty issue is a very emotional issue.
ALITA EWING, WBBM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The news came mid- morning, a two-page letter from Governor George Ryan to Dawn Pushell (ph), explaining why her brother and sister-in-law's murderers will be taken off death row.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "May God bless you, sincerely, Governor George Ryan." It's pretty bad.
EWING: Bad, she says, because there was no question of innocence in the case against Jerry and Reginald Mahafy (ph), the two brothers convicted of killing Dean and Jo Ellen Pushell (ph) in their North Side apartment nearly 20 years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes you feel sick and nauseous that he did this.
EWING: Her feelings are shared by other victims' families.
DANIEL VARGAS, VICTIM'S RELATIVE: We're destroyed. I mean...
EWING: Daniel Vargas' aunt, Sarah Cordona (ph), was stabbed and raped while her son watched. John Childress (ph) was sentenced to die for the crime, his second murder. Daniel now wonders if the governor had made up his mind before last year's emotionally draining clemency hearings.
VARGAS: If he would have went case by case, he would have seen that, you know, a lot of cases didn't deserve clemency, especially ours.
EWING: What is confusing to all of these families is why. Some believe the governor was trying to move focus from his own federal investigation to this, just in time for his Nobel Peace Prize nomination.
NAOMI MICHAEL CLARK, VICTIM'S RELATIVE: It just seems like my son never existed, or the other people who are gone. It's just -- it's just gone. That's all.
EWING: Whatever the reason for all these families, it has opened old wounds, which now they say may never heal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they're not breathing anymore we will have a sense of peace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: From our Chicago affiliate, WBBM, that report.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
