Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Dudley Sharp
Aired January 12, 2003 - 07:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get back to our top story, and that is a signature that rewrites the history of capital punishment, and erases the death sentence of every inmate on Illinois death row. The state's outgoing governor signed an order that commutes the sentences to life and ignites a debate over justice.
CNN Chicago bureau chief Jeff Flock with our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOV. GEORGE RYAN (R), ILLINOIS: Today, I'm commuting the sentence of all death row inmates, 167 of them.
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CHICAGO BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): History. With one bold stroke, Governor George Ryan effectively erases the names and empties the cells of Illinois' death row.
RYAN: I'm satisfied that I made the right the decision.
CRYSTAL FITCH, MURDER VICTIM'S SISTER: I'm paying my money, I'm paying tax money for this murderer of my sister to continue to live.
FLOCK: Crystal Fitch's sister was raped, murdered and left in a dumpster. This man sentenced to die for it. Ryan sent Fitch and other victims' families these letters saying the guilty will get life in prison instead of death.
FITCH: Tell me, in my face, that you're going to commute the guy killed my sister, and you told me you were going to review that case -- you lied to me.
RYAN: They have a right to feel betrayed. I probably mislead them, certainly not intentionally.
FLOCK: After his dramatic speech, Ryan told me he didn't decide on the blanket commutation until Friday afternoon.
(on camera): What was the thing that finally crystallized it for you, that made you take such dramatic action?
RYAN: I suppose what forced my hand is that I'm not going to be governor after Monday at noon, and if I was going to make a decision I had to do it, and I had to do it pretty quick.
FLOCK (voice-over): This man replaces Ryan, and has his own ideas about the death penalty. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS GOVERNOR-ELECT: But I disagree with his decision to provide blanket clemency. I think a blanket anything is usually wrong. There is no one size fits all approach to this. We're talking about convicted murderers, and I just think that that is a mistake.
FLOCK: Almost immediately on death row at the prison in Pontiac, they stopped transporting prisoners in shackles, as was the rule for the condemned. Eventually they will be moved out of these cells, and into the general prison population.
(on camera): What will that be like?
AARON PATTERSON, PARDONED DEATH ROW INMATE: That's no country club. You can get killed in prison population.
FLOCK (voice-over): Aaron Patterson would know. Ryan pardoned him the day before, along with Leroy Orange, who sat down for his first interview with his.
LEROY ORANGE, PARDONED DEATH ROW INMATE: A sigh of relief. A lot of pressure was lifted from me that I didn't realize so much pressure was on me.
FLOCK: The pressure now lifts from George Ryan too, a decision agonized over for months finally made, and history with it.
RYAN: I'm going to sleep well tonight, knowing that I made the right decision.
FLOCK: I'm Jeff Flock, CNN, in Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: In announcing his stunning declaration, Ryan dismissed the death penalty process as arbitrary and capricious. Families of the victims and victims' rights groups are using similar words to denounce the blanket clemency.
Dudley Sharp is with "Justice For All," a criminal justice reform group that focuses largely on the victims of violent crimes, and those who commit them. He joins us now from Houston this morning.
Hello to you, Mr. Sharp, thanks for being here.
DUDLEY SHARP, JUSTICE FOR ALL: Thanks for having me.
COLLINS: I want to go ahead and start with some of the facts behind that very long speech that we heard from the governor of Illinois. You say that it was incredibly deceptive. Tell me why.
SHARP: Well, for a whole host reasons. First of all, he said that 13 cases had been found innocent in Illinois -- that's simply untrue. There's at least five of those cases where there is a credible argument that they're certainly not innocent. Second of all, he said me made the decision because of fairness and justice. Well, if 97 percent of the convictions on Illinois death row are just convictions, which evidently they are, regarding guilt and innocence, only 3 percent are claimed to have been innocent, and 100 percent of the executions and not in doubt in that state, how is it fair to commute all of the other cases, to hurt all of those people, to denounce the juries, the judges, the prosecutors in those cases, where after three years of study, you didn't find them to be innocent, that the convictions were solid, let them go through the system.
He has disgraced his office, in my opinion, disgraced himself, and devastated many victims unnecessarily.
COLLINS: I do have to say also, in hearing that speech we had the opportunity to our correspondent Jeff Flock there, in the room an Northwestern when this was going on, and one of the question we asked was whether or not the victims' families were there, or had any representation there, or were even invited, and we learned that they had not been.
What does that tell you?
SHARP: Well, that's not at all surprising. I mean, the victims talked over the past couple of months how they never really felt that some of the meetings with the governor meant anything anyway. I had felt that since August that he was going to do 100 percent commutation, because I think he had been very deceptive for quite some time, and had really made up his mind a long time ago. I don't believe he made up his mind in Friday. I think he did so quite some time ago.
COLLINS: But in the beginning, Mr. Sharp, you say that you were part of the moratorium or in favor of it, when it first started.
SHARP: Well, no, I wasn't part of it. When you -- when you have 3 percent innocent people sentenced to death row, like I think is probably the accurate number in Illinois, that's a very high number. Nationally it's about 10 times less than that, it's about .3 or .4 percent -- so, certainly there was a problem in the state, and they were going have a two year moratorium and they took three years. And I was asked to present a paper to the commission, which I did.
And the problem is that all of the results, they didn't find any more innocent people during that period of time. Many of these cases have been on death row for many, many years, and have gone through exhaustive appeals process, and it just was so dishonest of the governor to commute these cases, based on the intent of what they were trying to find in that commission.
COLLINS: What sort of impact do you think this decision will have on future applications of the death penalty?
SHARP: Well, first of all, I don't think that this type of irresponsible will transfer to other governors in other states. I think the backlash against Governor Ryan is justified, and it's proportional in its condemnation of the wrong things that he has done here, and I think that what it will do is cause Illinois to put into law not allowing a governor to make this kind of blanket decision without a panel advising them.
COLLINS: Certainly a debate that will go on long after Monday when the governor leaves office. Thank you, Dudley Sharp, for being with us today. We appreciate your time.
SHARP: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 12, 2003 - 07:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get back to our top story, and that is a signature that rewrites the history of capital punishment, and erases the death sentence of every inmate on Illinois death row. The state's outgoing governor signed an order that commutes the sentences to life and ignites a debate over justice.
CNN Chicago bureau chief Jeff Flock with our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOV. GEORGE RYAN (R), ILLINOIS: Today, I'm commuting the sentence of all death row inmates, 167 of them.
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CHICAGO BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): History. With one bold stroke, Governor George Ryan effectively erases the names and empties the cells of Illinois' death row.
RYAN: I'm satisfied that I made the right the decision.
CRYSTAL FITCH, MURDER VICTIM'S SISTER: I'm paying my money, I'm paying tax money for this murderer of my sister to continue to live.
FLOCK: Crystal Fitch's sister was raped, murdered and left in a dumpster. This man sentenced to die for it. Ryan sent Fitch and other victims' families these letters saying the guilty will get life in prison instead of death.
FITCH: Tell me, in my face, that you're going to commute the guy killed my sister, and you told me you were going to review that case -- you lied to me.
RYAN: They have a right to feel betrayed. I probably mislead them, certainly not intentionally.
FLOCK: After his dramatic speech, Ryan told me he didn't decide on the blanket commutation until Friday afternoon.
(on camera): What was the thing that finally crystallized it for you, that made you take such dramatic action?
RYAN: I suppose what forced my hand is that I'm not going to be governor after Monday at noon, and if I was going to make a decision I had to do it, and I had to do it pretty quick.
FLOCK (voice-over): This man replaces Ryan, and has his own ideas about the death penalty. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS GOVERNOR-ELECT: But I disagree with his decision to provide blanket clemency. I think a blanket anything is usually wrong. There is no one size fits all approach to this. We're talking about convicted murderers, and I just think that that is a mistake.
FLOCK: Almost immediately on death row at the prison in Pontiac, they stopped transporting prisoners in shackles, as was the rule for the condemned. Eventually they will be moved out of these cells, and into the general prison population.
(on camera): What will that be like?
AARON PATTERSON, PARDONED DEATH ROW INMATE: That's no country club. You can get killed in prison population.
FLOCK (voice-over): Aaron Patterson would know. Ryan pardoned him the day before, along with Leroy Orange, who sat down for his first interview with his.
LEROY ORANGE, PARDONED DEATH ROW INMATE: A sigh of relief. A lot of pressure was lifted from me that I didn't realize so much pressure was on me.
FLOCK: The pressure now lifts from George Ryan too, a decision agonized over for months finally made, and history with it.
RYAN: I'm going to sleep well tonight, knowing that I made the right decision.
FLOCK: I'm Jeff Flock, CNN, in Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: In announcing his stunning declaration, Ryan dismissed the death penalty process as arbitrary and capricious. Families of the victims and victims' rights groups are using similar words to denounce the blanket clemency.
Dudley Sharp is with "Justice For All," a criminal justice reform group that focuses largely on the victims of violent crimes, and those who commit them. He joins us now from Houston this morning.
Hello to you, Mr. Sharp, thanks for being here.
DUDLEY SHARP, JUSTICE FOR ALL: Thanks for having me.
COLLINS: I want to go ahead and start with some of the facts behind that very long speech that we heard from the governor of Illinois. You say that it was incredibly deceptive. Tell me why.
SHARP: Well, for a whole host reasons. First of all, he said that 13 cases had been found innocent in Illinois -- that's simply untrue. There's at least five of those cases where there is a credible argument that they're certainly not innocent. Second of all, he said me made the decision because of fairness and justice. Well, if 97 percent of the convictions on Illinois death row are just convictions, which evidently they are, regarding guilt and innocence, only 3 percent are claimed to have been innocent, and 100 percent of the executions and not in doubt in that state, how is it fair to commute all of the other cases, to hurt all of those people, to denounce the juries, the judges, the prosecutors in those cases, where after three years of study, you didn't find them to be innocent, that the convictions were solid, let them go through the system.
He has disgraced his office, in my opinion, disgraced himself, and devastated many victims unnecessarily.
COLLINS: I do have to say also, in hearing that speech we had the opportunity to our correspondent Jeff Flock there, in the room an Northwestern when this was going on, and one of the question we asked was whether or not the victims' families were there, or had any representation there, or were even invited, and we learned that they had not been.
What does that tell you?
SHARP: Well, that's not at all surprising. I mean, the victims talked over the past couple of months how they never really felt that some of the meetings with the governor meant anything anyway. I had felt that since August that he was going to do 100 percent commutation, because I think he had been very deceptive for quite some time, and had really made up his mind a long time ago. I don't believe he made up his mind in Friday. I think he did so quite some time ago.
COLLINS: But in the beginning, Mr. Sharp, you say that you were part of the moratorium or in favor of it, when it first started.
SHARP: Well, no, I wasn't part of it. When you -- when you have 3 percent innocent people sentenced to death row, like I think is probably the accurate number in Illinois, that's a very high number. Nationally it's about 10 times less than that, it's about .3 or .4 percent -- so, certainly there was a problem in the state, and they were going have a two year moratorium and they took three years. And I was asked to present a paper to the commission, which I did.
And the problem is that all of the results, they didn't find any more innocent people during that period of time. Many of these cases have been on death row for many, many years, and have gone through exhaustive appeals process, and it just was so dishonest of the governor to commute these cases, based on the intent of what they were trying to find in that commission.
COLLINS: What sort of impact do you think this decision will have on future applications of the death penalty?
SHARP: Well, first of all, I don't think that this type of irresponsible will transfer to other governors in other states. I think the backlash against Governor Ryan is justified, and it's proportional in its condemnation of the wrong things that he has done here, and I think that what it will do is cause Illinois to put into law not allowing a governor to make this kind of blanket decision without a panel advising them.
COLLINS: Certainly a debate that will go on long after Monday when the governor leaves office. Thank you, Dudley Sharp, for being with us today. We appreciate your time.
SHARP: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
