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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Tom Ramos

Aired January 12, 2003 - 08:09   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now let's go to Illinois, where Governor George Ryan follows up his pardons of four death row inmates with clemency for 157 other convicts. We get details now from Suzanne LeMignot of CNN affiliate WBBM in Chicago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE LEMIGNOT, WBBM (voice-over): After 16 years behind bars, Aaron Patterson spent the morning of his first full day as a free man at this anti-war protest. Later, Patterson would join Madison Hobley and Leroy Orange here at Northwestern University. This is where the governor announced he would commute the sentences of all Illinois inmates on death row.

Patterson claims Chicago police beat him to confess to the murders of a Chicago couple. He says he'll be spending his time fighting for his wrongfully convicted brothers currently behind bars.

AARON PATTERSON, PARDONED INMATE: I'm going to ask the U.N. officers to come to Chicago and inspect the judicial system in Chicago and Cook County.

LEMIGNOT: Madison Hobley was convicted of setting a fire that left seven people dead. He said police beat him until he passed out. A detective claimed Hobley confessed to the crime. He spent is first full day of freedom doing interviews, among them one with the "CBS Early Show."

MADISON HOBLEY, PARDONED INMATE: I feel wonderful.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All right. That was the end of our report. That was from Suzanne LeMignot of CNN affiliate WBBM in Chicago. We thank her for that.

Let's get another perspective on this story. Joining us now is Tom Ramos. His sister Deborah (ph) and her two small children were murdered in 1988. Ronald Kitchen (ph) was convicted of those murders and sentenced to death. His sentence was one of those commuted by Governor Ryan. Mr. Ramos joins us from Chicago. Thank you for being with us, sir.

TOM RAMOS, MURDER VICTIM'S BROTHER: Thank you. Good morning.

O'BRIEN: What were your thoughts when you heard that speech yesterday?

RAMOS: It was all a setup for Ryan himself, the speech that he made. The only reason I'm going to tell you why is because we received the victims' family -- a letter yesterday, Saturday, regarding Governor Ryan's decision on what he's going to commute everyone's sentence to life in prison without parole. But I already suspected it because we had met with Governor Ryan prior to the letter.

But the letter itself, you know, giving it to us a day before his speech. You know, giving us his letter the same day, all he did was just to stop us from going over there and saying what we feel what his decision was going to be. So all he did was he didn't want any conflicts or anything like that. All he wanted was his own good-bye parade at the expense of the victims' families.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Ramos, how does this come at your expense? How does this change your perception of whether justice was done?

RAMOS: Well, I feel -- I feel the Cook County state's attorney office has conducted -- they conducted a great job, as far as investigating the trials, especially pertaining to our case, Ronald Kitchen (ph), who murdered my sister and children. I'm saying children. They were only two and three years old. And as far as the justice system, I feel the justice system is doing what it is supposed to be doing.

O'BRIEN: You do?

RAMOS: Yes, I do.

O'BRIEN: And do you feel that the governor's -- how do you feel the governor is motivated? He states that he feels if the program is broken, arbitrary and capricious, if only one innocent person might be subjected to the death penalty, it needs to be thrown out. How do you respond to that?

RAMOS: Well, that's fine. He can say all he wants with that. But we're talking 160 cases. It's supposed to be a case by case; that's what we stated from the beginning. Governor Ryan states that the system is flawed, that it's broken. We asked him and we demanded from him, well then, fix it. He didn't give us any indication of how or what.

O'BRIEN: What would you do to fix it, sir?

RAMOS: Well, first of all, I would speak to the prosecutors. I would speak to the state's attorneys office first, the professionals. That's what I would do first. Go up to them first. They're the ones that are experienced, they know how to handle these types of cases, by case by case.

O'BRIEN: If you could address the governor right now and assume he's listening, what would you tell him?

RAMOS: I would tell outgoing Governor Ryan, Governor Ryan, you and I know that what you did yesterday, as far as making that decision at Northwestern University in Chicago, as far as putting everyone to life in prison without parole, that was wrong and we'll never forget that. And I know you're looking at the mirror every day, you know, you're going to say you made the right decision, but you're wrong, Governor Ryan. You're absolutely wrong what you did.

The people in the state of Illinois know that. But the Americans across the country don't know what the real story is, what's coming up with him soon.

O'BRIEN: And you're talking about the investigation?

RAMOS: That's right. The investigation for the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) scandal. We know it's a cover up just to get his own public image a good one for himself at the expense of the victims' families.

O'BRIEN: All right. Finally, what would you say to the person who was convicted of murdering your sister, Ronald Kitchen (ph)?

RAMOS: I would tell Ronald Kitchen (ph), each and every day you're in the prison cell, remember one thing: you took the lives of innocent children. When you go to the general population downstate Illinois, you took lives from innocent children. They had nothing to do with anything. They were only two and three years old. That's a shame.

All Americans out there have children, sons and daughters. This is my nephew and my niece here. You took a life away and I cannot believe you did something like that. You burnt their bodies beyond recognition.

Those bodies were covered. They were murdered first, with a pillow suffocated over their face. Then what you did, set the house on fire. That's wrong, especially the children. I hope each day that goes by you remember that.

O'BRIEN: One final thought. Would it really make you sleep any easier if he were executed?

RAMOS: Yes. Yes. Last night I had a hard time sleeping. This past week I had a hard time sleeping knowing what Governor Ryan was going to be doing just for his own benefit. But you know what? I would have felt a lot better if Governor Ryan would have reinstated the death penalty. But I do hope the governor-elect will not end the death penalty and keep it in place.

O'BRIEN: Tom Ramos, brother of an Illinois murder victim. The person convicted of it among those commuted by Governor Ryan. Thank you very much for being with us this morning on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

RAMOS: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 12, 2003 - 08:09   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now let's go to Illinois, where Governor George Ryan follows up his pardons of four death row inmates with clemency for 157 other convicts. We get details now from Suzanne LeMignot of CNN affiliate WBBM in Chicago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE LEMIGNOT, WBBM (voice-over): After 16 years behind bars, Aaron Patterson spent the morning of his first full day as a free man at this anti-war protest. Later, Patterson would join Madison Hobley and Leroy Orange here at Northwestern University. This is where the governor announced he would commute the sentences of all Illinois inmates on death row.

Patterson claims Chicago police beat him to confess to the murders of a Chicago couple. He says he'll be spending his time fighting for his wrongfully convicted brothers currently behind bars.

AARON PATTERSON, PARDONED INMATE: I'm going to ask the U.N. officers to come to Chicago and inspect the judicial system in Chicago and Cook County.

LEMIGNOT: Madison Hobley was convicted of setting a fire that left seven people dead. He said police beat him until he passed out. A detective claimed Hobley confessed to the crime. He spent is first full day of freedom doing interviews, among them one with the "CBS Early Show."

MADISON HOBLEY, PARDONED INMATE: I feel wonderful.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All right. That was the end of our report. That was from Suzanne LeMignot of CNN affiliate WBBM in Chicago. We thank her for that.

Let's get another perspective on this story. Joining us now is Tom Ramos. His sister Deborah (ph) and her two small children were murdered in 1988. Ronald Kitchen (ph) was convicted of those murders and sentenced to death. His sentence was one of those commuted by Governor Ryan. Mr. Ramos joins us from Chicago. Thank you for being with us, sir.

TOM RAMOS, MURDER VICTIM'S BROTHER: Thank you. Good morning.

O'BRIEN: What were your thoughts when you heard that speech yesterday?

RAMOS: It was all a setup for Ryan himself, the speech that he made. The only reason I'm going to tell you why is because we received the victims' family -- a letter yesterday, Saturday, regarding Governor Ryan's decision on what he's going to commute everyone's sentence to life in prison without parole. But I already suspected it because we had met with Governor Ryan prior to the letter.

But the letter itself, you know, giving it to us a day before his speech. You know, giving us his letter the same day, all he did was just to stop us from going over there and saying what we feel what his decision was going to be. So all he did was he didn't want any conflicts or anything like that. All he wanted was his own good-bye parade at the expense of the victims' families.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Ramos, how does this come at your expense? How does this change your perception of whether justice was done?

RAMOS: Well, I feel -- I feel the Cook County state's attorney office has conducted -- they conducted a great job, as far as investigating the trials, especially pertaining to our case, Ronald Kitchen (ph), who murdered my sister and children. I'm saying children. They were only two and three years old. And as far as the justice system, I feel the justice system is doing what it is supposed to be doing.

O'BRIEN: You do?

RAMOS: Yes, I do.

O'BRIEN: And do you feel that the governor's -- how do you feel the governor is motivated? He states that he feels if the program is broken, arbitrary and capricious, if only one innocent person might be subjected to the death penalty, it needs to be thrown out. How do you respond to that?

RAMOS: Well, that's fine. He can say all he wants with that. But we're talking 160 cases. It's supposed to be a case by case; that's what we stated from the beginning. Governor Ryan states that the system is flawed, that it's broken. We asked him and we demanded from him, well then, fix it. He didn't give us any indication of how or what.

O'BRIEN: What would you do to fix it, sir?

RAMOS: Well, first of all, I would speak to the prosecutors. I would speak to the state's attorneys office first, the professionals. That's what I would do first. Go up to them first. They're the ones that are experienced, they know how to handle these types of cases, by case by case.

O'BRIEN: If you could address the governor right now and assume he's listening, what would you tell him?

RAMOS: I would tell outgoing Governor Ryan, Governor Ryan, you and I know that what you did yesterday, as far as making that decision at Northwestern University in Chicago, as far as putting everyone to life in prison without parole, that was wrong and we'll never forget that. And I know you're looking at the mirror every day, you know, you're going to say you made the right decision, but you're wrong, Governor Ryan. You're absolutely wrong what you did.

The people in the state of Illinois know that. But the Americans across the country don't know what the real story is, what's coming up with him soon.

O'BRIEN: And you're talking about the investigation?

RAMOS: That's right. The investigation for the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) scandal. We know it's a cover up just to get his own public image a good one for himself at the expense of the victims' families.

O'BRIEN: All right. Finally, what would you say to the person who was convicted of murdering your sister, Ronald Kitchen (ph)?

RAMOS: I would tell Ronald Kitchen (ph), each and every day you're in the prison cell, remember one thing: you took the lives of innocent children. When you go to the general population downstate Illinois, you took lives from innocent children. They had nothing to do with anything. They were only two and three years old. That's a shame.

All Americans out there have children, sons and daughters. This is my nephew and my niece here. You took a life away and I cannot believe you did something like that. You burnt their bodies beyond recognition.

Those bodies were covered. They were murdered first, with a pillow suffocated over their face. Then what you did, set the house on fire. That's wrong, especially the children. I hope each day that goes by you remember that.

O'BRIEN: One final thought. Would it really make you sleep any easier if he were executed?

RAMOS: Yes. Yes. Last night I had a hard time sleeping. This past week I had a hard time sleeping knowing what Governor Ryan was going to be doing just for his own benefit. But you know what? I would have felt a lot better if Governor Ryan would have reinstated the death penalty. But I do hope the governor-elect will not end the death penalty and keep it in place.

O'BRIEN: Tom Ramos, brother of an Illinois murder victim. The person convicted of it among those commuted by Governor Ryan. Thank you very much for being with us this morning on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

RAMOS: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com