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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Andy Chaikin

Aired February 09, 2003 - 07:39   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The tragedy of the space shuttle Columbia has caused a lot of soul searching about the U.S. space program. It's now only been eight days, but there's a lot of talk about the risks and the rewards of space travel.
In the past, NASA has bounced back from tragedy. Will it happen this time? Let's check in with someone who knows a lot about this, Andy Chaikin, who wrote the definitive account of the Apollo years, "A Man on the Moon," and is out more recently with a coffee table book entitled simply, "Space" joins us from Boston.

Andy, good to have you with us.

ANDY CHAIKIN, AUTHOR, SPACE JOURNALIST: Thanks a lot, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Let's put it in perspective for a moment. In the wake of a tragedy like this, there's a lot of talk about whether it is worth the risk. I assume your answer is yes, but tell us why.

CHAIKIN: I mean to me, it's a multi part answer. I mean, even aside from the science that we get, there is the technological driver. They use the word "driver." It helps push forward the state of technology, which then impacts not only the space program, but our lives on earth.

And then, I really feel that one of the most important benefits of exploring space is the mountain top experience that the entire human race gets from seeing the earth as it actually is, from learning about the solar system, learning about our place in the universe. That's a spiritual benefit, as well as a scientific benefit. And that inspires us. We desperately need inspiration now. It inspires our young people to study math and science. And as you know, there is a bit of a science literacy crisis in this country. So all of this adds up in my mind to a very good thing.

O'BRIEN: So it's...

CHAIKIN: Also, if I can say one more thing.

O'BRIEN: Yes, feel free.

CHAIKIN: It is about the long term health and survival of the human species. That is not an overstatement.

O'BRIEN: All right, so you're like Hillary. Because it's there, we should go, kind of. CHAIKIN: Well, I think it's more than about because it's there. I think it's about what we get from going.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Well, let's talk about -- try to separate two issues here, because I think...

CHAIKIN: And thank you for saying that quote, because when you said I'm like Hillary, my mind went to a completely different place that I didn't want to go.

O'BRIEN: Let's press on, shall we? Let's talk about the science, because there's a lot of debate which will of course be once again in sharp focus over the real value of the science and the human space flight realm. A lot of scientists would tell you the real science is on the interplanetary probes, which don't have any people, and that the manned space program is about something else entirely, some of the other things you were talking about, not necessarily great science. Because quite frankly, a lot of scientists would tell you that science who goes on the shuttle is, you know, a glorified science fair type stuff.

CHAIKIN: Yes...

O'BRIEN: What do you think about that?

CHAIKIN: Well, I was actually up in the middle of the night for not being able to sleep, because you know, we all have our minds racing at this time.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CHAIKIN: And I did see somebody on your network saying that none of the science done on the shuttle has any impact on science, which you know, frankly is patently untrue. I did a little bit of research before this broadcast. And I talked to people from the National Academy of Science on their space science board. And they told me, and by the way, their report is available on the National Academy web site, that the shuttle and the science being done on station has made substantial impacts in the areas of fundamental physics, the study of fluids, for example, the study of how things crystallize, the study of combustion, and the textbooks are being rewritten, leading investigators are being attracted to the experiments that NASA's doing.

I think the situation has improved greatly since the 1990s. Now maybe the bad taste that many people have in their mouths about NASA science is pre sort of pre-1990s.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CHAIKIN: When this peer review perhaps wasn't as strong, and when the shuttle program was more of a mixture of gee, are we going to launch a satellite on this mission?

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CHAIKIN: Or are we going to do science or?

O'BRIEN: So it's got -- it has a little bit more focus, taking the satellites out...

CHAIKIN: And it can mature. You know, it's matured.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CHAIKIN: Like any program, it's matured. And I'm -- I have much more faith sitting here talking to you now, that if the space station can be completed, it will mature into a facility that, you know, even if you can't necessarily justify it dollar for dollar right away, it's going to do -- has the potential to do great science.

O'BRIEN: All right, quickly, this is the third huge tragedy in national space and manned space, we're talking space flight realm. Apollo 1, Challenger, and now this. Can the agency bounce back this time? Is there anything different that is working for them or against them, as they try to think about flying again?

CHAIKIN: Well, I think that that rests with the public. I mean, I think that what has to happen is the public and the legislative branch, executive branch, has to be able to accept a certain amount of risk. And just as we've learned to accept risk in our daily lives, especially since 9/11, I think that a certain amount of risk in the life of the species is well served by exploring space.

So I think the attitude has changed since Apollo 1, since Challenger. And I do think that NASA will bounce back.

O'BRIEN: Andy Chaikin, author of "A Man on the Moon," more recently "Space." It is just called "Space," right?

CHAIKIN: "Space, a History of Space Exploration in Photographs."

O'BRIEN: All right, I wanted to make sure we got the plug in there.

CHAIKIN: Thank you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Thanks very much for joining us. We appreciate it, as always.

CHAIKIN: Always a pleasure, Miles. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: I'll check in with you later.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 9, 2003 - 07:39   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The tragedy of the space shuttle Columbia has caused a lot of soul searching about the U.S. space program. It's now only been eight days, but there's a lot of talk about the risks and the rewards of space travel.
In the past, NASA has bounced back from tragedy. Will it happen this time? Let's check in with someone who knows a lot about this, Andy Chaikin, who wrote the definitive account of the Apollo years, "A Man on the Moon," and is out more recently with a coffee table book entitled simply, "Space" joins us from Boston.

Andy, good to have you with us.

ANDY CHAIKIN, AUTHOR, SPACE JOURNALIST: Thanks a lot, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Let's put it in perspective for a moment. In the wake of a tragedy like this, there's a lot of talk about whether it is worth the risk. I assume your answer is yes, but tell us why.

CHAIKIN: I mean to me, it's a multi part answer. I mean, even aside from the science that we get, there is the technological driver. They use the word "driver." It helps push forward the state of technology, which then impacts not only the space program, but our lives on earth.

And then, I really feel that one of the most important benefits of exploring space is the mountain top experience that the entire human race gets from seeing the earth as it actually is, from learning about the solar system, learning about our place in the universe. That's a spiritual benefit, as well as a scientific benefit. And that inspires us. We desperately need inspiration now. It inspires our young people to study math and science. And as you know, there is a bit of a science literacy crisis in this country. So all of this adds up in my mind to a very good thing.

O'BRIEN: So it's...

CHAIKIN: Also, if I can say one more thing.

O'BRIEN: Yes, feel free.

CHAIKIN: It is about the long term health and survival of the human species. That is not an overstatement.

O'BRIEN: All right, so you're like Hillary. Because it's there, we should go, kind of. CHAIKIN: Well, I think it's more than about because it's there. I think it's about what we get from going.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Well, let's talk about -- try to separate two issues here, because I think...

CHAIKIN: And thank you for saying that quote, because when you said I'm like Hillary, my mind went to a completely different place that I didn't want to go.

O'BRIEN: Let's press on, shall we? Let's talk about the science, because there's a lot of debate which will of course be once again in sharp focus over the real value of the science and the human space flight realm. A lot of scientists would tell you the real science is on the interplanetary probes, which don't have any people, and that the manned space program is about something else entirely, some of the other things you were talking about, not necessarily great science. Because quite frankly, a lot of scientists would tell you that science who goes on the shuttle is, you know, a glorified science fair type stuff.

CHAIKIN: Yes...

O'BRIEN: What do you think about that?

CHAIKIN: Well, I was actually up in the middle of the night for not being able to sleep, because you know, we all have our minds racing at this time.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CHAIKIN: And I did see somebody on your network saying that none of the science done on the shuttle has any impact on science, which you know, frankly is patently untrue. I did a little bit of research before this broadcast. And I talked to people from the National Academy of Science on their space science board. And they told me, and by the way, their report is available on the National Academy web site, that the shuttle and the science being done on station has made substantial impacts in the areas of fundamental physics, the study of fluids, for example, the study of how things crystallize, the study of combustion, and the textbooks are being rewritten, leading investigators are being attracted to the experiments that NASA's doing.

I think the situation has improved greatly since the 1990s. Now maybe the bad taste that many people have in their mouths about NASA science is pre sort of pre-1990s.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CHAIKIN: When this peer review perhaps wasn't as strong, and when the shuttle program was more of a mixture of gee, are we going to launch a satellite on this mission?

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CHAIKIN: Or are we going to do science or?

O'BRIEN: So it's got -- it has a little bit more focus, taking the satellites out...

CHAIKIN: And it can mature. You know, it's matured.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

CHAIKIN: Like any program, it's matured. And I'm -- I have much more faith sitting here talking to you now, that if the space station can be completed, it will mature into a facility that, you know, even if you can't necessarily justify it dollar for dollar right away, it's going to do -- has the potential to do great science.

O'BRIEN: All right, quickly, this is the third huge tragedy in national space and manned space, we're talking space flight realm. Apollo 1, Challenger, and now this. Can the agency bounce back this time? Is there anything different that is working for them or against them, as they try to think about flying again?

CHAIKIN: Well, I think that that rests with the public. I mean, I think that what has to happen is the public and the legislative branch, executive branch, has to be able to accept a certain amount of risk. And just as we've learned to accept risk in our daily lives, especially since 9/11, I think that a certain amount of risk in the life of the species is well served by exploring space.

So I think the attitude has changed since Apollo 1, since Challenger. And I do think that NASA will bounce back.

O'BRIEN: Andy Chaikin, author of "A Man on the Moon," more recently "Space." It is just called "Space," right?

CHAIKIN: "Space, a History of Space Exploration in Photographs."

O'BRIEN: All right, I wanted to make sure we got the plug in there.

CHAIKIN: Thank you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Thanks very much for joining us. We appreciate it, as always.

CHAIKIN: Always a pleasure, Miles. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: I'll check in with you later.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com