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CNN Sunday Morning

Showdown: Iraq

Aired February 09, 2003 - 10:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We begin in Baghdad on those crucial discussions between the Iraqis and the U.N.'s chief weapons inspectors, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei. CNN's Nic Robertson is keeping track of all the talks in the Iraqi capital.
Good morning to you, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi. Well, the last of the talks here, the third session broke up about half an hour ago. That is pretty much what we were expecting here -- three rounds of talks in total, an hour this afternoon, two hours in the morning, four and a half hours yesterday, meetings with the foreign minister at a dinner late last night, a luncheon engagement with the Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan. The indications from Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei so far that the talks have been useful and substantive.

Now, in about an hours' time they will be giving a news briefing. We do expect them to begin to get details of what they've been talking about. So far, however, they have said they've been talking about the outstanding issues such as the issues such as VX nerve agents, such as anthrax, chemical warheads. All issues they came to Baghdad to discuss.

They've also been given two sets of documents. What's not clear yet and we will likely learn in the news briefing is exactly how much progress they've made on each issue and what -- and exactly the substance of what's been contained in those documents provided so far -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Nic, in the meantime, have you noticed any sort of change in the mood in the Iraqi people since all of this new information has come out and since the clock is ticking down?

ROBERTSON: People here are still very, very concerned about the situation. There's a feeling almost of inevitability in some ways that whatever they do with regard to U.N. weapons inspectors that there will be a war. It's not a foregone conclusion, many people know that, but they feel it is just a matter of time. And indeed, they are really very anxious about the current situation, anxious about what happens this weekend, anxious about what Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei say to the Security Council next week and anxious about how they will survive a war if it happens.

COLLINS: Nic Robertson, live in Baghdad. Thank you.

And we now take you to Martin Savidge. He is standing by in Kuwait City with more on everything that is going on there.

Martin, hello to you.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Heidi. In the coming week, the U.N. Security Council may be looking at a new plan to avert war with Iraq. Reporters say that France and Germany will offer a new initiative. The French foreign ministry official denies that there is any secret plan. We'll go to Larnaca, Cypress now and CNN's senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth, with his part of the story.

Richard, what's going on?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you're just waking up in the United States, it's all a dream or all a nightmare. Who knows? A trial balloon that may have come down to earth in the last few hours, reports that a magazine and then circulating in government circles, some wire services going hard with the story that France and Germany were concocting a plan to not only expand the number of arms inspectors that would be investigating Iraq for disarmament purposes, but also perhaps to put in a new resolution, an idea to have United Nations peacekeeping troops in Iraq. But in the last hour or so, a French government official on the foreign ministry side has said there's no such secret France, Germany planned. And also in Germany, several hours ago, a foreign ministry spokesperson indicated he didn't know of any such idea.

Perhaps what may be sticking will be a proposal by France or Germany, some time in the coming days or weeks at the U.N. to push for more United Nations weapons inspectors. The French foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin, has said that during his speech after Secretary of State Colin Powell's remarks to the Security Council, he said there might be more than 300 that you could have there, several hundred.

Secretary of State Powell has strongly denounced this idea saying the time is long past for more inspectors. It's time for the members of the Security Council to live up to the threat of serious consequences if Iraq doesn't disarm under the resolution that was passed unanimously last year and that hasn't happened yet according to the United States.

So right now there may indeed be a second resolution, Martin, down the road. The U.S. and U.K. with authorization for war, perhaps, while Germany, which doesn't have a veto and France and Russia, which do, are going to be looking to enforce the disarmament aspects that the United Nations can carry out, namely inspections. Hans Blix thinks not enough time has gone by to rule out and continuing the inspection process -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Well, Richard, what about this idea that had been floated out there about possibly sending in many more U.N. peacekeepers to assist in the weapons program or the search for weapons. Is that going anywhere?

ROTH: That could, but it's not likely because the U.S. really wants to put the squeeze on Iraq and the squeeze on other Security Council members saying time has dragged on too long and that if you put in more inspectors then there's more weeks and more months. And Washington feels Iraq is moving the weapons of destruction around, just out of the grasp of weapons inspectors before they get there and that the UNMOVIC weapons agency may be infiltrated by Iraqi or certainly, heavily bugged. So that's why the U.S. and U.K. are not likely to support.

It could be an initiating chip that the Europeans who oppose the war may want to look for to get favorable terms instead of a harsh deadline on Iraq for them to comply. It's still a divided Security Council. Colin Powell's presentation didn't provide enough proof to close the gaps among the key permanent members of the council.

SAVIDGE: Richard Roth, joining us live from Larnaca, Cypress. Thanks very much.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is wrapping up his mission to rally European support for the U.S. position on Iraq. After meeting with European leaders in Munich, Germany, Rumsfeld moved on to Italy. Earlier today, he met with American troops at Aviano Air Base.

During his visit to Munich, Rumsfeld warned that European countries that refused to side with the U.S. efforts to disarm Iraq risk isolation. With us now to talk more about the latest developments and what may lie ahead, CNN military analyst, Major General Don Shepherd. He's in Tucson, Arizona.

Good to have you again, General. Let me start off by asking you this -- all the last-minute wrangling and the protests that we have seen around the world against any military conflict, what impact is that likely to have on the U.S. military build up in the region?

MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET), U.S. AIR FORCE: Almost none, Martin. The troops are ready and they're going to respond to the national command authority of the president, the secretary of defense. They are itching to do what they've been trained to do. I think the troops are ready and I don't think that right now the protests have anything to do with what's going on. What does have something to do with what's going on is the diplomacy. The military war hasn't started but the diplomatic war is in high gear, as we've been talking about, Martin.

SAVIDGE: Well, as a commander, does it rankle you? I mean does it really bother you when all of this last minute wrangling is taking place this?

SHEPPERD: Not at all. This is America and this goes on every time we go to war. We're a nation that's very slow to go to war. We always have extensive peace protests. We have diplomatic things going on before you can go to war. Now, this time the diplomatic scene is extremely complicated and that has to play out to Hans Blix on the 14 and then what happens after that with the German and French proposals, it's most difficult and most exasperating, but it's very clear to me -- and I listened very carefully to the president's word -- the president determined. We will do it either with the U.N. or without them, Martin. SAVIDGE: Well, I know the soldiers are obviously motivated in what they do, but even before they left home, they must have seen some of these protests. Do you think it raises doubt at all in their action?

SHEPPERD: No, I don't think it raises doubt at all. Again, the troops are concentrating on being ready if they're called upon. They're on ships on their way. They're soon going to be on airplanes on their way over there. So they're concentrating on doing their job when and if called upon. They need to get there. They need to get bedded down. They need to get their equipment out and in shape. They need to get fuel and oil and ready to go and they will be ready, Martin. But all of this behind the scenes has nothing to do with the motivation of the troops.

SAVIDGE: Do you think it could have an impact on the buildup, let's say, if forces from Europe, those nations that are part of this coalition of the willing?

SHEPPERD: Yes, I think it does have -- the diplomatic scene has a great deal to do with what is going to be possible for the United States with the coalition of the willing. It has a lot to do with the number of troops that are going to be sent, the number of airplanes, the number of ships and exactly what they're going to do, and of course, also, what the coalition is going to be doing in post Saddam Iraq. So I think all of this diplomatic scene is very, very important to what happens and we need to watch it very, very closely as well as the military part.

SAVIDGE: And we will. General Shepherd, good to have you. Thank you very much for being with us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired February 9, 2003 - 10:02   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We begin in Baghdad on those crucial discussions between the Iraqis and the U.N.'s chief weapons inspectors, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei. CNN's Nic Robertson is keeping track of all the talks in the Iraqi capital.
Good morning to you, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi. Well, the last of the talks here, the third session broke up about half an hour ago. That is pretty much what we were expecting here -- three rounds of talks in total, an hour this afternoon, two hours in the morning, four and a half hours yesterday, meetings with the foreign minister at a dinner late last night, a luncheon engagement with the Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan. The indications from Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei so far that the talks have been useful and substantive.

Now, in about an hours' time they will be giving a news briefing. We do expect them to begin to get details of what they've been talking about. So far, however, they have said they've been talking about the outstanding issues such as the issues such as VX nerve agents, such as anthrax, chemical warheads. All issues they came to Baghdad to discuss.

They've also been given two sets of documents. What's not clear yet and we will likely learn in the news briefing is exactly how much progress they've made on each issue and what -- and exactly the substance of what's been contained in those documents provided so far -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Nic, in the meantime, have you noticed any sort of change in the mood in the Iraqi people since all of this new information has come out and since the clock is ticking down?

ROBERTSON: People here are still very, very concerned about the situation. There's a feeling almost of inevitability in some ways that whatever they do with regard to U.N. weapons inspectors that there will be a war. It's not a foregone conclusion, many people know that, but they feel it is just a matter of time. And indeed, they are really very anxious about the current situation, anxious about what happens this weekend, anxious about what Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei say to the Security Council next week and anxious about how they will survive a war if it happens.

COLLINS: Nic Robertson, live in Baghdad. Thank you.

And we now take you to Martin Savidge. He is standing by in Kuwait City with more on everything that is going on there.

Martin, hello to you.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Heidi. In the coming week, the U.N. Security Council may be looking at a new plan to avert war with Iraq. Reporters say that France and Germany will offer a new initiative. The French foreign ministry official denies that there is any secret plan. We'll go to Larnaca, Cypress now and CNN's senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth, with his part of the story.

Richard, what's going on?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you're just waking up in the United States, it's all a dream or all a nightmare. Who knows? A trial balloon that may have come down to earth in the last few hours, reports that a magazine and then circulating in government circles, some wire services going hard with the story that France and Germany were concocting a plan to not only expand the number of arms inspectors that would be investigating Iraq for disarmament purposes, but also perhaps to put in a new resolution, an idea to have United Nations peacekeeping troops in Iraq. But in the last hour or so, a French government official on the foreign ministry side has said there's no such secret France, Germany planned. And also in Germany, several hours ago, a foreign ministry spokesperson indicated he didn't know of any such idea.

Perhaps what may be sticking will be a proposal by France or Germany, some time in the coming days or weeks at the U.N. to push for more United Nations weapons inspectors. The French foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin, has said that during his speech after Secretary of State Colin Powell's remarks to the Security Council, he said there might be more than 300 that you could have there, several hundred.

Secretary of State Powell has strongly denounced this idea saying the time is long past for more inspectors. It's time for the members of the Security Council to live up to the threat of serious consequences if Iraq doesn't disarm under the resolution that was passed unanimously last year and that hasn't happened yet according to the United States.

So right now there may indeed be a second resolution, Martin, down the road. The U.S. and U.K. with authorization for war, perhaps, while Germany, which doesn't have a veto and France and Russia, which do, are going to be looking to enforce the disarmament aspects that the United Nations can carry out, namely inspections. Hans Blix thinks not enough time has gone by to rule out and continuing the inspection process -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Well, Richard, what about this idea that had been floated out there about possibly sending in many more U.N. peacekeepers to assist in the weapons program or the search for weapons. Is that going anywhere?

ROTH: That could, but it's not likely because the U.S. really wants to put the squeeze on Iraq and the squeeze on other Security Council members saying time has dragged on too long and that if you put in more inspectors then there's more weeks and more months. And Washington feels Iraq is moving the weapons of destruction around, just out of the grasp of weapons inspectors before they get there and that the UNMOVIC weapons agency may be infiltrated by Iraqi or certainly, heavily bugged. So that's why the U.S. and U.K. are not likely to support.

It could be an initiating chip that the Europeans who oppose the war may want to look for to get favorable terms instead of a harsh deadline on Iraq for them to comply. It's still a divided Security Council. Colin Powell's presentation didn't provide enough proof to close the gaps among the key permanent members of the council.

SAVIDGE: Richard Roth, joining us live from Larnaca, Cypress. Thanks very much.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is wrapping up his mission to rally European support for the U.S. position on Iraq. After meeting with European leaders in Munich, Germany, Rumsfeld moved on to Italy. Earlier today, he met with American troops at Aviano Air Base.

During his visit to Munich, Rumsfeld warned that European countries that refused to side with the U.S. efforts to disarm Iraq risk isolation. With us now to talk more about the latest developments and what may lie ahead, CNN military analyst, Major General Don Shepherd. He's in Tucson, Arizona.

Good to have you again, General. Let me start off by asking you this -- all the last-minute wrangling and the protests that we have seen around the world against any military conflict, what impact is that likely to have on the U.S. military build up in the region?

MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET), U.S. AIR FORCE: Almost none, Martin. The troops are ready and they're going to respond to the national command authority of the president, the secretary of defense. They are itching to do what they've been trained to do. I think the troops are ready and I don't think that right now the protests have anything to do with what's going on. What does have something to do with what's going on is the diplomacy. The military war hasn't started but the diplomatic war is in high gear, as we've been talking about, Martin.

SAVIDGE: Well, as a commander, does it rankle you? I mean does it really bother you when all of this last minute wrangling is taking place this?

SHEPPERD: Not at all. This is America and this goes on every time we go to war. We're a nation that's very slow to go to war. We always have extensive peace protests. We have diplomatic things going on before you can go to war. Now, this time the diplomatic scene is extremely complicated and that has to play out to Hans Blix on the 14 and then what happens after that with the German and French proposals, it's most difficult and most exasperating, but it's very clear to me -- and I listened very carefully to the president's word -- the president determined. We will do it either with the U.N. or without them, Martin. SAVIDGE: Well, I know the soldiers are obviously motivated in what they do, but even before they left home, they must have seen some of these protests. Do you think it raises doubt at all in their action?

SHEPPERD: No, I don't think it raises doubt at all. Again, the troops are concentrating on being ready if they're called upon. They're on ships on their way. They're soon going to be on airplanes on their way over there. So they're concentrating on doing their job when and if called upon. They need to get there. They need to get bedded down. They need to get their equipment out and in shape. They need to get fuel and oil and ready to go and they will be ready, Martin. But all of this behind the scenes has nothing to do with the motivation of the troops.

SAVIDGE: Do you think it could have an impact on the buildup, let's say, if forces from Europe, those nations that are part of this coalition of the willing?

SHEPPERD: Yes, I think it does have -- the diplomatic scene has a great deal to do with what is going to be possible for the United States with the coalition of the willing. It has a lot to do with the number of troops that are going to be sent, the number of airplanes, the number of ships and exactly what they're going to do, and of course, also, what the coalition is going to be doing in post Saddam Iraq. So I think all of this diplomatic scene is very, very important to what happens and we need to watch it very, very closely as well as the military part.

SAVIDGE: And we will. General Shepherd, good to have you. Thank you very much for being with us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com