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CNN Sunday Morning
Showdown: Iraq -- U.N. Weapons Inspectors Meet With Iraqis
Aired February 09, 2003 - 11:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Key talks in Baghdad are being described as substantial and useful. The U.N.'s top weapons inspectors are trying to broker more cooperation with the Iraqis. CNN's Rym Brahimi has been monitoring those discussions and brings us the very latest now from Baghdad. Hello to you, Rym.
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello there. We're supposed to hear now, very shortly, from the two chief U.N. weapons inspectors, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei. They had, again, a long session of meetings with Iraqi officials. The Iraqi delegation, led by General Amir al-Saadi, the top scientific adviser to President Saddam Hussein, was about two sessions today, one of them two and a half hours long, and one of them one hour long. That was interrupted by a meeting with Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan.
Now, the vice president has spoken to the inspectors about a variety of things. The Iraqi state-run news agency, INA, says that Taha Yassin Ramadan, during his talks with Mr. Blix and Mr. Baradei, stressed that Iraq was ready to provide active cooperation to the U.N. weapons inspectors, but also called on them to be fair and objective when they present their reports to the U.N. Security Council on February 14 -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Rym, we know that this could be the last time that Blix and ElBaradei are in Iraq. Tell me, then, what is the next step in the process?
BRAHIMI: Well, that's interesting. It's exactly a question that some U.N. officials have been asking themselves. Of course, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei say they answered the invitation, they accepted the invitation to come to Baghdad because they expected that there would be major progress done. Not only in the three main issues, the interviews with the scientists, the U-2 overflights, and enforcing legislation about prohibited weapons, but also beyond that. They wanted to see evidence.
Now, of course, these meetings, we understand that some documents have been presented to them. The significance of those documents is being assessed. But all that is going to be determining what they're going to tell the U.N. Security Council on February 14. That's the next so-called deadline, if you will, when they're supposed to report, in effect, whether or not this inspection process is working to some members of the Security Council. Some of them which are getting a bit impatient, as you know, and would want to see them progress on the ground. Heidi?
COLLINS: Rym Brahimi with the call to prayer in the background there. Thank you so much. Live from Baghdad this morning.
Martin Savidge now, standing by in Kuwait. Hi, Martin.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Heidi. More about possible moves to the U.N. Security Council to stem a war with Iraq. CNN senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth is following the story from Larnaca, Cyprus. And Richard, I'm wondering, like many people, what does come next for the U.N.?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: What comes next, as Rym mentioned, is February 14, the inspectors' report. After that, you can bet there will be a lot of consultations behind closed doors with the permanent five, trying to work out their differences, if that's possible. President Bush has said it's a matter of weeks, not months. The US says that it's willing to have a second resolution, but it's only going to push for that if it knows it has the votes to get toward some authorization of war.
Now, in the last few hours, there have been stories out of Germany, stories perhaps out of France, some conflicting, whether there's a German-French proposal to increase the number of inspectors; whether they come to the security council with that is far from known. A French official saying there's no such plan, but a German defense minister told a television station there that there's some sort of plan in the works.
It was also floated, the idea of a U.N. peacekeeping force there, though that idea seemed to have crashed to the ground within matter of hours. The British and United States would be strongly opposed to any U.N. peacekeeping force. That would be seen as dragging out the inspections process.
All of this is frustration; the inability to disarm Iraq or to come up with some plan or timing on how long the inspectors should have. The US does not want Messrs.. Blix and ElBaradei to take months to continue working. The inspectors say, we've only been there months, give it time. It took eight years for the first U.N. weapons agency to go about finding other things. They had some success, and they destroyed more than was blown up and exploded during the actual Gulf War.
The Security Council, they're still divided. It took them seven weeks, Martin, to come up with that first resolution. That was unanimously passed. So some countries may eventually compromise, some will crack. But it may be just too early to tell what will happen and whether the US will even wait around for that. Martin?
SAVIDGE: Well, how severe is that split in the Security Council, and will it get better, or simply get worse?
ROTH: We have seen this split before. All parties say, we're still friends. France still wants to be a major player on the world stage. If a veto seems far from likely of any US second resolution, other countries could abstain, putting on record they don't agree with what's happening, but they don't want to stand in the way. Russia has sided more recently with President Bush, but has also said it wants to see more inspections, and anything to avert war. That's what you're hearing from France and Russia. Germany doesn't have a veto on the Council. It's the current President of the Security Council. It's not likely there'll be any military force to Iraq while Germany is the president.
SAVIDGE: Richard Roth in Cyprus. You always leave us with a cliff hanger. Thanks very much. Let's go back to Heidi.
COLLINS: Thank you, Martin and Richard, both.
As the diplomatic efforts continue this weekend, the message to Baghdad from Washington is unchanged. Time is indeed running out.
Let's turn now to CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux. Hi, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Heidi. President Bush this morning is in West Virginia at a retreat with other Republican lawmakers really stressing the domestic agenda. But in perhaps in a preemptive move of their own, his top advisers, Secretary of State Colin Powell, as well as National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, both making it very clear that any type of Franco- German proposal to intensify inspections is really a non-starter. Secretary Powell, early this morning, saying members of the U.N. Security Council have to meet the challenge of disarming Saddam Hussein. He says that intensifying inspections and the sanctions have not worked in the past. He has no faith they'll work now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I suspect it's a variation of what the French foreign minister discussed at the U.N. on Wednesday, and that is, increasing the number of inspectors and giving them more robust instructions. But I don't know what that accomplishes. The issue is not more inspectors or more robust inspections, the issue is, will Iraq comply?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Secretary Powell earlier today saying that there is still a peaceful way out of this if Saddam Hussein complies. But I want to bring up the latest poll numbers here. A new CNN/"TIME" poll, showing that despite his assurances, that most Americans still believe that war with Iraq is inevitable. Back in January, it was at 63 percent, now it's at 75 percent. But still, most Americans do not believe that Iraq poses an immediate threat to the people living in the United States. 39 percent say yes, an immediate threat; 60 percent say no. Heidi?
COLLINS: That brings up my question. The US is not wavering on its stance with Iraq. More troops are being moved in as we speak. But there is some dissension on the part of the American people. Is there any sort of new response from the White House on that very issue?
MALVEAUX: Well, the White House continues to say that the President is going to make his case to the American people, as well as to the international community. We're going to see that play out in the days to come. We are also going to see, after Friday, the administration's response to the latest reports from the U.N. weapons inspectors. But they maintain they believe the American people will be behind the President if it comes to that. The use of military force against -- Secretary Powell still saying there's a peaceful way out of this if Saddam Hussein complies. There is really no one in this administration who thinks that is going to happen.
COLLINS: All right. Suzanne Malveaux, live at the White House now. thank you.
We're going to send it back, now, to Martin Savidge in Kuwait. Martin?
SAVIDGE: Russia, France and Germany appearing to be jockeying toward their position in the Security Council, and the end game may be near. To get some perspective on this, we turn to CNN analyst Ken Pollack. He's with the Brookings Institution and the Saban Center for Mideast Policy in Washington.
So what are we supposed to make of this, well, what is being talked about as a proposal by the French and Germans? Although Richard Roth says there's some cold water on it. What do you make of this, Ken?
KEN POLLACK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: My suspicion is the French and Germans are colluding to try and come up with some kind of an alternative to the road to war that the administration has mapped out. But I think that the French and Germans are actually going to have quite a tough time of it. Certainly the Russians will support it, and maybe a couple of others.
What you heard Secretary Powell say, in Suzanne Malveaux's piece, is exactly right. And I think that's going to make it very hard for the Franco-German plan to gain any traction. The problem is not having more inspectors in Iraq, or even giving them U.N. peacekeepers to protect them. That's ultimately meaningless. Because as Secretary Powell said, and he's absolutely right about this, it's not the job of the inspectors to disarm Iraq.
In fact, if you talk to any inspector, including Hans Blix who said this publicly, the inspectors cannot forcibly disarm Saddam Hussein. It's just not possible. Whether they have 100 inspectors, or 300 inspectors, or 3,000 inspectors, they can't do it. They can only do the job if Saddam Hussein voluntarily disarms. And so I think that the Franco-German plan, if it comes out and says just put more inspectors in, it's going to be pretty easy for the administration to shoot that down, and say, that's not the issue.
I think that the only thing that at this point in time could really gain some traction, the Security Council as an alternative, would be if the French and the Germans could somehow come up with some way, some kind of a plan that would maybe get Saddam Hussein to change his mind. And I think that it is testimony to the French and German belief that that's never going to happen, that instead, they've gone down this road.
SAVIDGE: Well, what about the Arab world? Couldn't there be countries -- and there have already, Saudi Arabia has entered into this. Could there be an 11th-hour sort of opportunity created or overture made from nations here in the Arab region?
POLLACK: I certainly think you will have Arab states at various moments in that 11th hour, trying to come forward with desperate plans to avert some kind of a war. Certainly you will see them continuing to go to Baghdad to try to convince Saddam Hussein to abdicate. Certainly you'll see them trying to continue to get Saddam Hussein to comply. And my guess is, as we get closer and closer, Iraq will continue to make these concessions.
And this has been Saddam's game all along, he has basically said this publicly. That he knows that he just has to play for time, if he can get to the summer, he believes the United States won't be able to invade, and that'll be the end of this entire threat for good. And he knows if he makes these little concessions, that there are going to be countries and people throughout the world who are going to jump on them and try to use them as a way of staving off any military action.
So I think that you will see those 11th-hour actions. I think that you will see the Iraqis making all kinds of partial concessions in the days ahead. But it also seems pretty clear that the administration understands that that's Saddam's game and they're just not interested.
SAVIDGE: Well, that's the point. You may see these overtures, but the United States is probably not going to go along or agree to any of them, correct?
POLLACK: Right. That is, I think, the undertone that you should be hearing in all of these different pieces. The administration has made up its mind. The administration has decided that war is the only solution to this. And at this point in time, it's simply a matter of how much time they need to build up the forces to do the job properly, and trying to get as many countries onboard with the war effort as possible. That's not an inconsequential issue. The more countries that the US can bring onboard, the better chances that we can have a second resolution that brings large numbers of countries onboard the war, the better it's going to be for the United States, for the Iraqi people and for the entire world when this thing actually happens.
SAVIDGE: All right. Ken Pollack, as always, we appreciate your insights. I'm sure we'll be talking to you again. Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Iraqis>
Aired February 9, 2003 - 11:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Key talks in Baghdad are being described as substantial and useful. The U.N.'s top weapons inspectors are trying to broker more cooperation with the Iraqis. CNN's Rym Brahimi has been monitoring those discussions and brings us the very latest now from Baghdad. Hello to you, Rym.
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello there. We're supposed to hear now, very shortly, from the two chief U.N. weapons inspectors, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei. They had, again, a long session of meetings with Iraqi officials. The Iraqi delegation, led by General Amir al-Saadi, the top scientific adviser to President Saddam Hussein, was about two sessions today, one of them two and a half hours long, and one of them one hour long. That was interrupted by a meeting with Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan.
Now, the vice president has spoken to the inspectors about a variety of things. The Iraqi state-run news agency, INA, says that Taha Yassin Ramadan, during his talks with Mr. Blix and Mr. Baradei, stressed that Iraq was ready to provide active cooperation to the U.N. weapons inspectors, but also called on them to be fair and objective when they present their reports to the U.N. Security Council on February 14 -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Rym, we know that this could be the last time that Blix and ElBaradei are in Iraq. Tell me, then, what is the next step in the process?
BRAHIMI: Well, that's interesting. It's exactly a question that some U.N. officials have been asking themselves. Of course, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei say they answered the invitation, they accepted the invitation to come to Baghdad because they expected that there would be major progress done. Not only in the three main issues, the interviews with the scientists, the U-2 overflights, and enforcing legislation about prohibited weapons, but also beyond that. They wanted to see evidence.
Now, of course, these meetings, we understand that some documents have been presented to them. The significance of those documents is being assessed. But all that is going to be determining what they're going to tell the U.N. Security Council on February 14. That's the next so-called deadline, if you will, when they're supposed to report, in effect, whether or not this inspection process is working to some members of the Security Council. Some of them which are getting a bit impatient, as you know, and would want to see them progress on the ground. Heidi?
COLLINS: Rym Brahimi with the call to prayer in the background there. Thank you so much. Live from Baghdad this morning.
Martin Savidge now, standing by in Kuwait. Hi, Martin.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Heidi. More about possible moves to the U.N. Security Council to stem a war with Iraq. CNN senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth is following the story from Larnaca, Cyprus. And Richard, I'm wondering, like many people, what does come next for the U.N.?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: What comes next, as Rym mentioned, is February 14, the inspectors' report. After that, you can bet there will be a lot of consultations behind closed doors with the permanent five, trying to work out their differences, if that's possible. President Bush has said it's a matter of weeks, not months. The US says that it's willing to have a second resolution, but it's only going to push for that if it knows it has the votes to get toward some authorization of war.
Now, in the last few hours, there have been stories out of Germany, stories perhaps out of France, some conflicting, whether there's a German-French proposal to increase the number of inspectors; whether they come to the security council with that is far from known. A French official saying there's no such plan, but a German defense minister told a television station there that there's some sort of plan in the works.
It was also floated, the idea of a U.N. peacekeeping force there, though that idea seemed to have crashed to the ground within matter of hours. The British and United States would be strongly opposed to any U.N. peacekeeping force. That would be seen as dragging out the inspections process.
All of this is frustration; the inability to disarm Iraq or to come up with some plan or timing on how long the inspectors should have. The US does not want Messrs.. Blix and ElBaradei to take months to continue working. The inspectors say, we've only been there months, give it time. It took eight years for the first U.N. weapons agency to go about finding other things. They had some success, and they destroyed more than was blown up and exploded during the actual Gulf War.
The Security Council, they're still divided. It took them seven weeks, Martin, to come up with that first resolution. That was unanimously passed. So some countries may eventually compromise, some will crack. But it may be just too early to tell what will happen and whether the US will even wait around for that. Martin?
SAVIDGE: Well, how severe is that split in the Security Council, and will it get better, or simply get worse?
ROTH: We have seen this split before. All parties say, we're still friends. France still wants to be a major player on the world stage. If a veto seems far from likely of any US second resolution, other countries could abstain, putting on record they don't agree with what's happening, but they don't want to stand in the way. Russia has sided more recently with President Bush, but has also said it wants to see more inspections, and anything to avert war. That's what you're hearing from France and Russia. Germany doesn't have a veto on the Council. It's the current President of the Security Council. It's not likely there'll be any military force to Iraq while Germany is the president.
SAVIDGE: Richard Roth in Cyprus. You always leave us with a cliff hanger. Thanks very much. Let's go back to Heidi.
COLLINS: Thank you, Martin and Richard, both.
As the diplomatic efforts continue this weekend, the message to Baghdad from Washington is unchanged. Time is indeed running out.
Let's turn now to CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux. Hi, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Heidi. President Bush this morning is in West Virginia at a retreat with other Republican lawmakers really stressing the domestic agenda. But in perhaps in a preemptive move of their own, his top advisers, Secretary of State Colin Powell, as well as National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, both making it very clear that any type of Franco- German proposal to intensify inspections is really a non-starter. Secretary Powell, early this morning, saying members of the U.N. Security Council have to meet the challenge of disarming Saddam Hussein. He says that intensifying inspections and the sanctions have not worked in the past. He has no faith they'll work now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I suspect it's a variation of what the French foreign minister discussed at the U.N. on Wednesday, and that is, increasing the number of inspectors and giving them more robust instructions. But I don't know what that accomplishes. The issue is not more inspectors or more robust inspections, the issue is, will Iraq comply?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Secretary Powell earlier today saying that there is still a peaceful way out of this if Saddam Hussein complies. But I want to bring up the latest poll numbers here. A new CNN/"TIME" poll, showing that despite his assurances, that most Americans still believe that war with Iraq is inevitable. Back in January, it was at 63 percent, now it's at 75 percent. But still, most Americans do not believe that Iraq poses an immediate threat to the people living in the United States. 39 percent say yes, an immediate threat; 60 percent say no. Heidi?
COLLINS: That brings up my question. The US is not wavering on its stance with Iraq. More troops are being moved in as we speak. But there is some dissension on the part of the American people. Is there any sort of new response from the White House on that very issue?
MALVEAUX: Well, the White House continues to say that the President is going to make his case to the American people, as well as to the international community. We're going to see that play out in the days to come. We are also going to see, after Friday, the administration's response to the latest reports from the U.N. weapons inspectors. But they maintain they believe the American people will be behind the President if it comes to that. The use of military force against -- Secretary Powell still saying there's a peaceful way out of this if Saddam Hussein complies. There is really no one in this administration who thinks that is going to happen.
COLLINS: All right. Suzanne Malveaux, live at the White House now. thank you.
We're going to send it back, now, to Martin Savidge in Kuwait. Martin?
SAVIDGE: Russia, France and Germany appearing to be jockeying toward their position in the Security Council, and the end game may be near. To get some perspective on this, we turn to CNN analyst Ken Pollack. He's with the Brookings Institution and the Saban Center for Mideast Policy in Washington.
So what are we supposed to make of this, well, what is being talked about as a proposal by the French and Germans? Although Richard Roth says there's some cold water on it. What do you make of this, Ken?
KEN POLLACK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: My suspicion is the French and Germans are colluding to try and come up with some kind of an alternative to the road to war that the administration has mapped out. But I think that the French and Germans are actually going to have quite a tough time of it. Certainly the Russians will support it, and maybe a couple of others.
What you heard Secretary Powell say, in Suzanne Malveaux's piece, is exactly right. And I think that's going to make it very hard for the Franco-German plan to gain any traction. The problem is not having more inspectors in Iraq, or even giving them U.N. peacekeepers to protect them. That's ultimately meaningless. Because as Secretary Powell said, and he's absolutely right about this, it's not the job of the inspectors to disarm Iraq.
In fact, if you talk to any inspector, including Hans Blix who said this publicly, the inspectors cannot forcibly disarm Saddam Hussein. It's just not possible. Whether they have 100 inspectors, or 300 inspectors, or 3,000 inspectors, they can't do it. They can only do the job if Saddam Hussein voluntarily disarms. And so I think that the Franco-German plan, if it comes out and says just put more inspectors in, it's going to be pretty easy for the administration to shoot that down, and say, that's not the issue.
I think that the only thing that at this point in time could really gain some traction, the Security Council as an alternative, would be if the French and the Germans could somehow come up with some way, some kind of a plan that would maybe get Saddam Hussein to change his mind. And I think that it is testimony to the French and German belief that that's never going to happen, that instead, they've gone down this road.
SAVIDGE: Well, what about the Arab world? Couldn't there be countries -- and there have already, Saudi Arabia has entered into this. Could there be an 11th-hour sort of opportunity created or overture made from nations here in the Arab region?
POLLACK: I certainly think you will have Arab states at various moments in that 11th hour, trying to come forward with desperate plans to avert some kind of a war. Certainly you will see them continuing to go to Baghdad to try to convince Saddam Hussein to abdicate. Certainly you'll see them trying to continue to get Saddam Hussein to comply. And my guess is, as we get closer and closer, Iraq will continue to make these concessions.
And this has been Saddam's game all along, he has basically said this publicly. That he knows that he just has to play for time, if he can get to the summer, he believes the United States won't be able to invade, and that'll be the end of this entire threat for good. And he knows if he makes these little concessions, that there are going to be countries and people throughout the world who are going to jump on them and try to use them as a way of staving off any military action.
So I think that you will see those 11th-hour actions. I think that you will see the Iraqis making all kinds of partial concessions in the days ahead. But it also seems pretty clear that the administration understands that that's Saddam's game and they're just not interested.
SAVIDGE: Well, that's the point. You may see these overtures, but the United States is probably not going to go along or agree to any of them, correct?
POLLACK: Right. That is, I think, the undertone that you should be hearing in all of these different pieces. The administration has made up its mind. The administration has decided that war is the only solution to this. And at this point in time, it's simply a matter of how much time they need to build up the forces to do the job properly, and trying to get as many countries onboard with the war effort as possible. That's not an inconsequential issue. The more countries that the US can bring onboard, the better chances that we can have a second resolution that brings large numbers of countries onboard the war, the better it's going to be for the United States, for the Iraqi people and for the entire world when this thing actually happens.
SAVIDGE: All right. Ken Pollack, as always, we appreciate your insights. I'm sure we'll be talking to you again. Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Iraqis>
