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CNN Sunday Morning

Did Vatican Do Enough to Stop Holocaust?

Aired February 16, 2003 - 09:51   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Pope John Paul II has sent a special envoy to Iraq with a message of peace for President Saddam Hussein, and Iraq's deputy prime minister went to the Vatican on Friday to talk peace with the pontiff.
As John Paul tries to avert war now, we look back to another war. Did the Vatican do enough to try to stop the Holocaust? Critics say no. And are especially critical of Pius XII, who became pope shortly before World War II.

This weekend, the Vatican released documents to answer that criticism. CNN Vatican analyst John Allen has that from Rome.

Good morning to you, John. Quickly, I'd like to start, if we could, by going back to this time frame, and talking to us for just a moment about exactly what the Vatican was criticized for. Was it inaction, or was it actually anti-semitism?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, it's a little of both, Heidi. Pope Pius XII, as you say, has been the focus of this controversy. He was an Italian by the name of Eugenio Pacelli. In 1999, a very famous book, now famous, called "Hitler's Pope," by an English writer by the name of John Cornwell appeared which made the accusation that the Vatican was largely silent during the Holocaust, during the second World War, and that that silence was in part driven by the personal anti-semitism of Eugenio Pacelli.

Since that controversy erupted, scholars on all sides of the question have been clamoring for access to the secret records of the Vatican from the period of the second World War. So what we're getting, what we got yesterday, was a partial opening, the first, if you will, opening of some of those records. And we will have several revelations to come in the next few years that hopefully will go part of the way towards resolving this very acrimonious historical debate, Heidi.

COLLINS: Give us a little bit more detail, if you could, John, about what those documents are, what's inside of them. And, I know they were released early. Why?

ALLEN: Well, the Vatican's normal rhythm is, they open the records from one pontific, from one papal reign, all at once, and normally, they do it 70 years after the death of the pope in question. So the pope we're talking about now is Pius XII's predecessor, Pius XI, who died in 1939, which means normally, those records would have been opened in 2009. But in response to this controversy, which has really strained relations between Catholics and Jews, principally, this pope, who has, of course, a great track record on Jewish relations, wanted to speed things up.

And so, what we got yesterday were all of the records from the pontificate of Pius XI, that is, covering the years 1922 and 1939, dealing with the relationship between Germany and the Holy See, that is, the Vatican. What we should have in the next couple years are the rest of the records from Pius XI, and then hopefully, by 2007 or 2008, all the records from Pius XII.

Most of the records we got yesterday, quite frankly, are not new. Many of them are letters written by the Vatican to Germany, the originals of which are in Germany and, therefore, in the German archives, and therefore, already been published. So there probably won't be anything dramatically new or different that comes out of yesterday's revelations.

COLLINS: OK.

ALLEN: On the other hand, there is at least one thing I can, one sort of historical nugget I can offer. Which is, there is a famous letter written by someone by the name of Edith Stein. She was a Jew that converted to Catholicism and became a nun, and eventually died in Auschwitz. She wrote this letter in April of 1933, complaining about Nazi persecution of the Jews to Pius XI. Now a lot of people have long believed that in that letter she asked the Pope to write an encyclical letter. That's a major papal document condemning the Nazis. And the fact that Pius didn't do it has been used as part of the campaign against him. What we now know, as of yesterday morning, once that letter is on the record, is that the she did not make any such request. So at least in that way, it resolves a historical debate in favor of the Vatican's position.

COLLINS: All right. Obviously, much more to come on this. John Allen, we certainly appreciate your insight on this. Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired February 16, 2003 - 09:51   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Pope John Paul II has sent a special envoy to Iraq with a message of peace for President Saddam Hussein, and Iraq's deputy prime minister went to the Vatican on Friday to talk peace with the pontiff.
As John Paul tries to avert war now, we look back to another war. Did the Vatican do enough to try to stop the Holocaust? Critics say no. And are especially critical of Pius XII, who became pope shortly before World War II.

This weekend, the Vatican released documents to answer that criticism. CNN Vatican analyst John Allen has that from Rome.

Good morning to you, John. Quickly, I'd like to start, if we could, by going back to this time frame, and talking to us for just a moment about exactly what the Vatican was criticized for. Was it inaction, or was it actually anti-semitism?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, it's a little of both, Heidi. Pope Pius XII, as you say, has been the focus of this controversy. He was an Italian by the name of Eugenio Pacelli. In 1999, a very famous book, now famous, called "Hitler's Pope," by an English writer by the name of John Cornwell appeared which made the accusation that the Vatican was largely silent during the Holocaust, during the second World War, and that that silence was in part driven by the personal anti-semitism of Eugenio Pacelli.

Since that controversy erupted, scholars on all sides of the question have been clamoring for access to the secret records of the Vatican from the period of the second World War. So what we're getting, what we got yesterday, was a partial opening, the first, if you will, opening of some of those records. And we will have several revelations to come in the next few years that hopefully will go part of the way towards resolving this very acrimonious historical debate, Heidi.

COLLINS: Give us a little bit more detail, if you could, John, about what those documents are, what's inside of them. And, I know they were released early. Why?

ALLEN: Well, the Vatican's normal rhythm is, they open the records from one pontific, from one papal reign, all at once, and normally, they do it 70 years after the death of the pope in question. So the pope we're talking about now is Pius XII's predecessor, Pius XI, who died in 1939, which means normally, those records would have been opened in 2009. But in response to this controversy, which has really strained relations between Catholics and Jews, principally, this pope, who has, of course, a great track record on Jewish relations, wanted to speed things up.

And so, what we got yesterday were all of the records from the pontificate of Pius XI, that is, covering the years 1922 and 1939, dealing with the relationship between Germany and the Holy See, that is, the Vatican. What we should have in the next couple years are the rest of the records from Pius XI, and then hopefully, by 2007 or 2008, all the records from Pius XII.

Most of the records we got yesterday, quite frankly, are not new. Many of them are letters written by the Vatican to Germany, the originals of which are in Germany and, therefore, in the German archives, and therefore, already been published. So there probably won't be anything dramatically new or different that comes out of yesterday's revelations.

COLLINS: OK.

ALLEN: On the other hand, there is at least one thing I can, one sort of historical nugget I can offer. Which is, there is a famous letter written by someone by the name of Edith Stein. She was a Jew that converted to Catholicism and became a nun, and eventually died in Auschwitz. She wrote this letter in April of 1933, complaining about Nazi persecution of the Jews to Pius XI. Now a lot of people have long believed that in that letter she asked the Pope to write an encyclical letter. That's a major papal document condemning the Nazis. And the fact that Pius didn't do it has been used as part of the campaign against him. What we now know, as of yesterday morning, once that letter is on the record, is that the she did not make any such request. So at least in that way, it resolves a historical debate in favor of the Vatican's position.

COLLINS: All right. Obviously, much more to come on this. John Allen, we certainly appreciate your insight on this. Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com