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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Casey Grant

Aired February 23, 2003 - 10:42   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Grieving families in Rhode Island face an emotional day today. Many will be taken behind police barricades to see the charred ruins of a nightclub where 96 people lost their lives. Of those, only 15 victims have been positively identified. CNN's Whitney Casey is in West Warwick with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITNEY CASEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): And today will be the first time that families of those 96 victims will be able to come to the site and actually see it for themselves. As of right now, police here and state authorities are covering this site so that the media will not be here and honor the rights of the people that are coming down here. They put black tarps over areas that we once before were showing you, but also as we move along the side of here, the station right here, this was the kitchen. This is the back of The Station nightclub. This is about where only 12 people escaped through the backfire and one of those people were part of the band.

Now, one band member is still missing, but as we move along down the hill a little bit, we can see that quite a few people have showed up here just now, not only media, but shown up here to see before they get kicked out and before the family members arrive here about 1:30 with state officials. So far right now, 81 people have yet to be identified of the 96. Only 15 have been identified, but pathology teams are working around the clock with state officials.

Family members will be here around 1:30 and they will start a growing memorial. But they also say that with their anguish comes a bit of anger now. They would like some answers and they'd like them from club owner, Jeffrey Derderian. Last night, he gave a press conference. He gave a very emotional statement. He said that he never knew that pyrotechnics were to be used in his club. However, the band's attorney, Great White, came out yesterday from Los Angeles and said that they did have verbal permission from the club owners to use those pyrotechnics.

Two newspapers, "The Boston Globe" and "The Boston Herald" have said today that they've had bands call them and say that they played here numerous times and that they were use allowed to use pyrotechnics. However, the investigation is secondary today. Today, it's about the families as 81 victims are still unidentified.

Whitney Casey, CNN, West Warwick, Rhode Island.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: Well, if we learned anything from the Rhode Island nightclub blaze it is how quickly chaos can strike a crowd and lead to death. What can be done to prevent similar deaths in the future? Insights now from Casey Grant with the National Fire Protection Association. And he joins us now from Boston.

Good to see you.

CASEY GRANT, NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION: Good morning.

WHITFIELD: All right, your organization helps jurisdictions come up with standards, is that correct?

GRANT: That is correct. We do assist with the development of nationally recognized codes and standards.

WHITFIELD: All right. Do you suppose now with this fire at The Station in West Warwick that this perhaps, underscores now the need that perhaps there need to be more universal standards as opposed to it be being measured by jurisdiction to jurisdiction?

GRANT: Well, there are available national documents. It's a question of adoption and the legislative bodies implementing them because it does differ from one jurisdiction to another. And clearly, we'd like to see levels of safety that will make sure that this kind of disaster will not happen in the future.

WHITFIELD: For example, there have been some experts who have said that had this nightclub had a sprinkler system, then clearly this fire could not have raged out of control. Why is it that most public places such as a nightclub wouldn't have standard sprinkler systems in place?

GRANT: I want to start by answering that I certainly must emphasize the value of automatic sprinkler systems. They have a very good proven track record, but even in a situation like this, experts are questioning if a conventional sprinkler system, how well it would have performed in this particular facility with the video that shows the very dramatic and rapid spread of this fire. Clearly, we believe that a sprinkler system would have greatly reduced the loss of life. But would it have eliminated it? That's a question and that's why the investigation really needs to be done to determine why did this fire travel so fast and so furiously?

WHITFIELD: And so right now, as it stands in say, West Warwick, are sprinkler systems optional?

GRANT: That is a question for each particular jurisdiction. Looking at how national codes are developed, there are always questions. There's always great emphasis in terms of trying to promote the use of sprinklers. But clearly, it's a question of resource allotment. Can we ever have a perfect world? And the questions aren't about the value of sprinklers. It's really a question should every single facility have them or is there some cutoff point where below a certain size facility, you have other safety measures instead because the crowds are smaller and so forth. WHITFIELD: And another complaint has been by so many people who have surveyed and kept an eye on nightclub situations or any other small venues is that, often times -- and not saying that it happened in this case -- but oftentimes owners may be even able to circumvent standards or codes by perhaps bribing inspectors or there may be some other, you know, sort of backdoor measures that are taken. Are you finding that that is still a very pervasive problem?

GRANT: Well, in the United States, fortunately, it does not seem to be the same kind of problem that it appears to be in other countries, especially developing countries where we see these disasters much too frequently. But clearly, that's a very, very critical part of the whole fire safety equation. It's not simply having proper codes and standards that provide the necessary minimum levels of safety. It's also very important for enforcement and that is a very challenging issue for enforcers in the United States.

WHITFIELD: It just seems in this day and age that it's quite remarkable that you would have this many deaths with a fire of this scale when, according to your organization, the numbers really have gone down in the past two decades of large sorts of fires like this, such as, in 1980, there were 1,300 -- 69 fires whereas just a few years ago it dropped down to only 500. So what is the explanation, as on how you could have such dangerous venues potentially out there to spark or to help, you know, breed fires of this magnitude?

GRANT: Well, if there was a simple answer to that question, we certainly would want to know about it. It's often a matter of trying to swim up the waterfall in terms of trying to raise public awareness, not only in terms of how to act in disasters like this, but certainly in terms of the court of public opinion helping us to enable legislation that will require sprinklers and will allow us to promote the use of built-in fire safety measures, which are very critical. This was a very devastating tragedy and we want to make sure that this kind of thing does not happen again.

WHITFIELD: All right indeed. All right, Casey Grant, thank you very much for joining us, appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 23, 2003 - 10:42   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Grieving families in Rhode Island face an emotional day today. Many will be taken behind police barricades to see the charred ruins of a nightclub where 96 people lost their lives. Of those, only 15 victims have been positively identified. CNN's Whitney Casey is in West Warwick with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITNEY CASEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): And today will be the first time that families of those 96 victims will be able to come to the site and actually see it for themselves. As of right now, police here and state authorities are covering this site so that the media will not be here and honor the rights of the people that are coming down here. They put black tarps over areas that we once before were showing you, but also as we move along the side of here, the station right here, this was the kitchen. This is the back of The Station nightclub. This is about where only 12 people escaped through the backfire and one of those people were part of the band.

Now, one band member is still missing, but as we move along down the hill a little bit, we can see that quite a few people have showed up here just now, not only media, but shown up here to see before they get kicked out and before the family members arrive here about 1:30 with state officials. So far right now, 81 people have yet to be identified of the 96. Only 15 have been identified, but pathology teams are working around the clock with state officials.

Family members will be here around 1:30 and they will start a growing memorial. But they also say that with their anguish comes a bit of anger now. They would like some answers and they'd like them from club owner, Jeffrey Derderian. Last night, he gave a press conference. He gave a very emotional statement. He said that he never knew that pyrotechnics were to be used in his club. However, the band's attorney, Great White, came out yesterday from Los Angeles and said that they did have verbal permission from the club owners to use those pyrotechnics.

Two newspapers, "The Boston Globe" and "The Boston Herald" have said today that they've had bands call them and say that they played here numerous times and that they were use allowed to use pyrotechnics. However, the investigation is secondary today. Today, it's about the families as 81 victims are still unidentified.

Whitney Casey, CNN, West Warwick, Rhode Island.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: Well, if we learned anything from the Rhode Island nightclub blaze it is how quickly chaos can strike a crowd and lead to death. What can be done to prevent similar deaths in the future? Insights now from Casey Grant with the National Fire Protection Association. And he joins us now from Boston.

Good to see you.

CASEY GRANT, NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION: Good morning.

WHITFIELD: All right, your organization helps jurisdictions come up with standards, is that correct?

GRANT: That is correct. We do assist with the development of nationally recognized codes and standards.

WHITFIELD: All right. Do you suppose now with this fire at The Station in West Warwick that this perhaps, underscores now the need that perhaps there need to be more universal standards as opposed to it be being measured by jurisdiction to jurisdiction?

GRANT: Well, there are available national documents. It's a question of adoption and the legislative bodies implementing them because it does differ from one jurisdiction to another. And clearly, we'd like to see levels of safety that will make sure that this kind of disaster will not happen in the future.

WHITFIELD: For example, there have been some experts who have said that had this nightclub had a sprinkler system, then clearly this fire could not have raged out of control. Why is it that most public places such as a nightclub wouldn't have standard sprinkler systems in place?

GRANT: I want to start by answering that I certainly must emphasize the value of automatic sprinkler systems. They have a very good proven track record, but even in a situation like this, experts are questioning if a conventional sprinkler system, how well it would have performed in this particular facility with the video that shows the very dramatic and rapid spread of this fire. Clearly, we believe that a sprinkler system would have greatly reduced the loss of life. But would it have eliminated it? That's a question and that's why the investigation really needs to be done to determine why did this fire travel so fast and so furiously?

WHITFIELD: And so right now, as it stands in say, West Warwick, are sprinkler systems optional?

GRANT: That is a question for each particular jurisdiction. Looking at how national codes are developed, there are always questions. There's always great emphasis in terms of trying to promote the use of sprinklers. But clearly, it's a question of resource allotment. Can we ever have a perfect world? And the questions aren't about the value of sprinklers. It's really a question should every single facility have them or is there some cutoff point where below a certain size facility, you have other safety measures instead because the crowds are smaller and so forth. WHITFIELD: And another complaint has been by so many people who have surveyed and kept an eye on nightclub situations or any other small venues is that, often times -- and not saying that it happened in this case -- but oftentimes owners may be even able to circumvent standards or codes by perhaps bribing inspectors or there may be some other, you know, sort of backdoor measures that are taken. Are you finding that that is still a very pervasive problem?

GRANT: Well, in the United States, fortunately, it does not seem to be the same kind of problem that it appears to be in other countries, especially developing countries where we see these disasters much too frequently. But clearly, that's a very, very critical part of the whole fire safety equation. It's not simply having proper codes and standards that provide the necessary minimum levels of safety. It's also very important for enforcement and that is a very challenging issue for enforcers in the United States.

WHITFIELD: It just seems in this day and age that it's quite remarkable that you would have this many deaths with a fire of this scale when, according to your organization, the numbers really have gone down in the past two decades of large sorts of fires like this, such as, in 1980, there were 1,300 -- 69 fires whereas just a few years ago it dropped down to only 500. So what is the explanation, as on how you could have such dangerous venues potentially out there to spark or to help, you know, breed fires of this magnitude?

GRANT: Well, if there was a simple answer to that question, we certainly would want to know about it. It's often a matter of trying to swim up the waterfall in terms of trying to raise public awareness, not only in terms of how to act in disasters like this, but certainly in terms of the court of public opinion helping us to enable legislation that will require sprinklers and will allow us to promote the use of built-in fire safety measures, which are very critical. This was a very devastating tragedy and we want to make sure that this kind of thing does not happen again.

WHITFIELD: All right indeed. All right, Casey Grant, thank you very much for joining us, appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com