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CNN Sunday Morning

A Look at Sandstorms in Middle East

Aired March 09, 2003 - 07:42   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Even though the U.S. has satellite guided bombs and cruise missiles that can strike targets in bad weather, sandstorms can still present problems for war planners and of course the forces on the ground.
CNN military analyst retired general Wesley Clark is here now to help us with that.

Good morning to you, sir. Thanks for being here.

WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Morning, Heidi.

COLLINS: I'm wondering if you can tell us -- we just heard an excellent explanation of what these sand storms really are. This is something that the United States soldiers have not dealt with before, at least not to this capacity. I'm wondering how much of an advantage do the Iraqi soldiers have because they have dealt with it quite a bit.

CLARK: Well, I think that they don't have the technology and the techniques to do any better with it than we do. They may have been familiar with it, but they're going to put something over their face and they're going to do the best they can to turn away from it because they're going to have the same problems we have with it.

COLLINS: And what specifically are those challenges that we're talking about?

CLARK: Well, I think it starts at the bottom, with the individual soldiers. It's very difficult to survive and function while in that kind of sand storm. So the things that you have to do as a soldier to do well on the battlefield, clean your weapon, keep it functioning, do field sanitation, treat people and everything that's more difficult. When it comes to units, it's more difficult to move, repairing vehicles, evacuating casualties.

Helicopters don't do well in this kind of condition because even though the sands low, when they try to land, it creates enough of a obscuration that it's dangerous for the helicopters to fly. And as far as the high performance aircraft are concerned, when they're trying to use their sophisticated laser guided missiles and so forth, they have trouble picking up features on the ground. And the laser beams are sometimes deflected by these sand storms. So it's tough.

COLLINS: General Clark, right. Back to the helicopters, I know last month, one of the Blackhawks went down. Four crew members killed and there were sand storms in the area. So this is exactly what you're talking about, right?

CLARK: That's exactly right, because when you're flying a helicopter, especially at night, and our pilots are trained to fly at night, they have night vision goggles. And they normally are flying low. And when they get low, and the wind's whipping around, the sands up, there's just an obscuration there that makes it very difficult for them to judge how far they are from the ground.

We've got a pilot at one point several years ago in that area who flew into a sand dune in a storm like this, where it just couldn't tell if it was a sand dune in front of him. So it is difficult and dangerous to operate in these conditions.

COLLINS: And that's another good point because I would imagine that in trying to land, especially the helicopters, there's not a whole lot of definition when you're trying to put down, right?

CLARK: That's exactly right. I mean, the ground is the enemy of aircraft, even the enemy of helicopters unless you really know where it is and know how to maneuver it. Our pilots are trained to fly low to the ground because that reduces their profile and reduces the ability of the enemy to track them and engage them with a variety of weapons.

But in flying low, they put themselves into the envelope or the ground can be there, could be very dangerous. And in these conditions of sand storms and so forth, they simply can't do it. And of course, once the helicopter's down and has to be serviced and opened up, unless you've got a protected area, the sand storm makes the servicing of the helicopters extremely difficult.

COLLINS: I'm sure. And as far as the ground troops go, what sort of strategies will they have to possibly change or alter in the face of the sand storms?

CLARK: Well, I think in terms of movement, Heidi, the first thing they're going to do is just they'll have to tighten up the formations and move more slowly because as we can see from the tape that you show, the visibility's much reduced. If you come in contact with the enemy in something like this, your contact's going to be at shorter range. And obviously, you're going to try to work around. So you're coming at the enemy from up wind. So he's got to face the sand and the sand is to your back. So you'll be trying to outmaneuver him, even at the tactical level. But it just makes all the conditions and frictions of the battlefield worse to operate in weather like this.

COLLINS: I'm certain of that. All right, CNN military analyst General Wesley Clark, thank you so very much for joining us.

CLARK: Good to be with you, Heidi.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired March 9, 2003 - 07:42   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Even though the U.S. has satellite guided bombs and cruise missiles that can strike targets in bad weather, sandstorms can still present problems for war planners and of course the forces on the ground.
CNN military analyst retired general Wesley Clark is here now to help us with that.

Good morning to you, sir. Thanks for being here.

WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Morning, Heidi.

COLLINS: I'm wondering if you can tell us -- we just heard an excellent explanation of what these sand storms really are. This is something that the United States soldiers have not dealt with before, at least not to this capacity. I'm wondering how much of an advantage do the Iraqi soldiers have because they have dealt with it quite a bit.

CLARK: Well, I think that they don't have the technology and the techniques to do any better with it than we do. They may have been familiar with it, but they're going to put something over their face and they're going to do the best they can to turn away from it because they're going to have the same problems we have with it.

COLLINS: And what specifically are those challenges that we're talking about?

CLARK: Well, I think it starts at the bottom, with the individual soldiers. It's very difficult to survive and function while in that kind of sand storm. So the things that you have to do as a soldier to do well on the battlefield, clean your weapon, keep it functioning, do field sanitation, treat people and everything that's more difficult. When it comes to units, it's more difficult to move, repairing vehicles, evacuating casualties.

Helicopters don't do well in this kind of condition because even though the sands low, when they try to land, it creates enough of a obscuration that it's dangerous for the helicopters to fly. And as far as the high performance aircraft are concerned, when they're trying to use their sophisticated laser guided missiles and so forth, they have trouble picking up features on the ground. And the laser beams are sometimes deflected by these sand storms. So it's tough.

COLLINS: General Clark, right. Back to the helicopters, I know last month, one of the Blackhawks went down. Four crew members killed and there were sand storms in the area. So this is exactly what you're talking about, right?

CLARK: That's exactly right, because when you're flying a helicopter, especially at night, and our pilots are trained to fly at night, they have night vision goggles. And they normally are flying low. And when they get low, and the wind's whipping around, the sands up, there's just an obscuration there that makes it very difficult for them to judge how far they are from the ground.

We've got a pilot at one point several years ago in that area who flew into a sand dune in a storm like this, where it just couldn't tell if it was a sand dune in front of him. So it is difficult and dangerous to operate in these conditions.

COLLINS: And that's another good point because I would imagine that in trying to land, especially the helicopters, there's not a whole lot of definition when you're trying to put down, right?

CLARK: That's exactly right. I mean, the ground is the enemy of aircraft, even the enemy of helicopters unless you really know where it is and know how to maneuver it. Our pilots are trained to fly low to the ground because that reduces their profile and reduces the ability of the enemy to track them and engage them with a variety of weapons.

But in flying low, they put themselves into the envelope or the ground can be there, could be very dangerous. And in these conditions of sand storms and so forth, they simply can't do it. And of course, once the helicopter's down and has to be serviced and opened up, unless you've got a protected area, the sand storm makes the servicing of the helicopters extremely difficult.

COLLINS: I'm sure. And as far as the ground troops go, what sort of strategies will they have to possibly change or alter in the face of the sand storms?

CLARK: Well, I think in terms of movement, Heidi, the first thing they're going to do is just they'll have to tighten up the formations and move more slowly because as we can see from the tape that you show, the visibility's much reduced. If you come in contact with the enemy in something like this, your contact's going to be at shorter range. And obviously, you're going to try to work around. So you're coming at the enemy from up wind. So he's got to face the sand and the sand is to your back. So you'll be trying to outmaneuver him, even at the tactical level. But it just makes all the conditions and frictions of the battlefield worse to operate in weather like this.

COLLINS: I'm certain of that. All right, CNN military analyst General Wesley Clark, thank you so very much for joining us.

CLARK: Good to be with you, Heidi.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com