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CNN Sunday Morning
British Forces Trying to Route Out Paramilitary Forces Threatening Civilians in Basra
Aired March 30, 2003 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. It is Sunday, March 30, good to have you here. 10:00 a.m. back on the East Coast in the U.S., 7:00 on the West Coast. It is 6:00 here in Kuwait and 6:00 in Baghdad. You're watching CNN's coverage of Operation Iraqi Freedom now in Day 11. Good to have you back with us. I'm Bill Hemmer live again today in Kuwait City. Joining me again this hour is Leon Harris and Heidi Collins both at CNN Center. Heidi gets things started with a look at what's happening this hour.
Good morning again to you and good evening from Kuwait.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Bill.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Bill. Thanks so much. We are going to take a look at the latest developments now in the war in Iraq.
The U.S. military says six people were injured at a U.S. camp in Kuwait. A civilian drove a pickup truck into a crowd waiting in line outside a military store. Military police fired on the vehicle. It's not yet known what happened to the driver.
British Marines report a major capture in the battle for Basra. A spokesman says an Iraqi general is now in custody. The highest- ranking capture so far. Earlier, British commandos killed an Iraqi colonel who was the leader in the Republican Guard and captured five other leaders. The British forces also destroyed a Basra television tower and a large concrete image of Saddam Hussein.
U.S. Marines report progress in the battle for Nasiriyah, apparently, securing the southern bank of the Euphrates River. The battle has been drawn out for more than a week now and the Marines are reported still taking heavy fire from Iraqi positions. The U.S. has been fighting back with utility and Cobra helicopters.
The Pentagon confirms reports that bloody U.S. uniforms were found hidden in a hospital at Nasiriyah. The clothing is believed to belong to members of an Army maintenance company ambushed last week. U.S. forces captured the hospital also reporting what appears to be a torture device. It's the same hospital where 3,000 chemical protection suits were found several days ago.
The Islamic jihad says it is behind a suicide bomb attack by an Islamic militant in the Israeli coastal town of Netanya. Some 30 people were hurt, at least six people seriously in an outdoor coffee shop in a crowded pedestrian mall this morning. This is the first suicide bombing in Israel in nearly one month.
Leon, over to you.
HARRIS: Yes. Well, now, we got some images that we want to share with you folks this morning. Now, the war in Iraq now in its 11th day and throughout the fighting, we have seen some incredible images, images of heroism and hope and -- as well as suffering and sadness as well. And here are some of the most compelling images that we found today. Check these shots out here.
You're looking -- you're actually through the sites of an Army helicopter. Now, what it's doing is they're honing in on some suspected Iraqi fighters and the helicopter there is trying to keep these Iraqi fighters in place until they can be searched by coalition forces that are moving in.
Elsewhere, people of Basra, which you see here, literally, on the run, is fighting rages on in their southern city. British forces say that they're trying to route out any paramilitary forces who are threatening civilians there, and they said they've made quite a bit of progress in doing it there as well.
And a moment of calm brings some moments of caring and reflection for a U.S. Marine. The officials say that the Marine watched over this 4-year-old girl whose mother was killed after getting caught in the crossfire.
HEMMER: It does not appear that the situation inside of the town of Basra has changed much. However, we do know over the past several days, there have been secret operations going into the town of certain times and also operations conducted just southeast of the city. Christiane Amanpour now working with the British military in southeastern Iraq has this report right now.
Christiane, good evening to you. What more are you learning about the situation inside the town in the military operations now taking place around it?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Basra is quite slow-going. You know, the British had expected it to be a welcoming city almost from the very beginning, but what they found and what's been as the case is that the Iraqi army divisions, which were around Basra, have melted into the town and over the last 11 days have been firing out as well as the irregulars. So several -- several things have been going on.
That British military action that you described earlier, capturing senior army officers, and also as the civilians come out, they're starting, in some instances, to be caught in the crossfire, specifically today. Civilians were heading out of the west side of Basra toward British lines and a combat (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the course firing incident in which -- from the Iraqi side, there was five directed at a British checkpoint and then the British returned fire. We don't have any word of whether there are any casualties.
Also, the British trying to go into psychological warfare inside Basra, showing who is in charge or at least who'd they like to be in charge. Over the last few days it's been sporadically tense into the center of town. On occasion, they say to tear down the central statute of say Saddam, also the TV tower, cutting Baghdad's link, with Basra, they hope and they have been defacing and destroying murals with their large army bulldozer.
Now, they've also been trying to deal with the humanitarian situation and that started on sort of a small scale down south in Umm Qasr today. We saw the first water pipeline extended, that had been extended from Kuwait, start to gush water into tankers that they're hiring to take around to the town. It's a little bit confusing and it got off to a little bit if a slow start because the people were told that they may have to pay for the water and there was a lot of protests at that. So that's going to be sort of smoothed out, we hope, between the British and the American military, who have been running that war delivery operation.
And then, of course, the next phase, they'd like to try to bring in humanitarian aid, food, supplies and other such things into these cities. It must be said that the military is not used to this kind of humanitarian work, and they're really sort of filling a gap, filling a vacuum of the NGOs. And the U.N., who are experiencing this kind of thing, are not in the country at moment and some of today's humanitarian delivering problems can be probably attributed to that sort of inexperience at this level of humanitarian substance of a city -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Christiane, thanks. Christiane Amanpour, again, with the British military southeastern Iraq. We will check back with more as soon as we get it on the situation that still unfolds inside the town of Basra.
Back here, Essam al-Ghalib is a writer, a journalist for "Arab News," that's an English daily newspaper printed in Saudi Arabia. He, too, is Saudi. He joins us live here in Kuwait City.
Just about two days ago you were inside of Basra. You were also there on Thursday and Friday, so two days in a row. Before we started coming on the air here, you remarked about how quickly the situation changed. What changed when you went inside the city?
ESSAM AL-GLALIB, REPORTER, "ARAB NEWS": Well, Thursday afternoon we when we tried get into Basra, the British troops refused to let us in saying the situation was too dangerous. When we went in the following day, on Friday, they said the situation had calmed a bit. It was still risky, but we could enter at our own risk.
We walked into the town and we were faced out by another crew. My partner, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and I were on foot. We got picked up by a French TV crew and apparently, we were told later that someone had used the satellite phone and that had apparently alerted the Iraqis to our presence in the town. Immediately, shelling started. We started hearing machine gun fire very close to us. Just the situation had changed from being very, very calm. People walking the streets to just utter chaos. HEMMER: What is your sense right now of how much control the Ba'ath Party, how much control the paramilitaries have right now over the civilian population. By the way, this is a large town -- 1.4 million people live there.
AL-GHALIB: It's my understanding that they're the second largest town in Iraq. The situation was very, very calm. We went in, but one thing we noticed is that the Iraqi police still had control of the town. There was Arab bombardment going on, but there was no British or U.S. troops within the city itself. We went two kilometers into Basra, and the intersection there was still being controlled by Iraqi uniform police. There were no U.S. or U.K. troops to be seen.
HEMMER: Wow! We are rolling some videotape right now of part of your journey in there. What are we seeing, so we can describe it to our viewers?
AL-GHALIB: We are in the second -- actually, there was three cars in front of us, holding the Italian journalists that were stopped by the police. We rolled up behind them. We were going to make a u- turn to get out of Basra as the intense shelling started. They were the first three cars. They made a u-turn at the intersection, and we just noticed that the Iraqi police had lifted their AK-47s and were pointing them at the cars. They stopped and pulled them out of the vehicle. And at that point, we did a quick u-turn and we actually went against traffic rather quickly to escape.
HEMMER: So you got out.
AL-GHALIB: We got out.
HEMMER: And the fate of the Italian journalists is what at this point?
AL-GHALIB: Well, for the first 24 hours, we had no news. But I spoke with Italian radio last night and they said that the Italians had been transported to Baghdad. They were issued Iraqi visas and were being allowed to stay. They've been getting conflicting reports right now from other agencies as to what happened, but one thing for sure is that they are in Iraq, in Baghdad and they are safe and well.
HEMMER: Wow! They're alive then?
AL-GHALIB: Yes.
HEMMER: The refugee situation, what was your assessment? Why is it that we see this videotape of some coming streaming out of the city in the hundreds, by the dozens at least at certain times, and yet a lot of other people are choosing or -- either that or they're being forced to stay inside of Basra. What's the assessment about the choice to leave or having no choice in having to stay?
AL-GHALIB: The people we spoke to, they wanted to get out of there because of the situation and their part of the city was quite intense and quite dangerous. The Ba'ath Party does have control of different parts of the city. Some parts of the city they have not gone into. From my understanding from the people that I have spoke to is that the civilian -- I'm sorry, the military, the Iraqi military is wearing civilian clothing, forcing their way into people's homes and firing onto the American and the U.K. forces, I guess, during their aerial bombardment.
HEMMER: In addition to that, there were reports about Iraqi soldiers firing on Iraqi civilians, is that true? Did you see any of that?
AL-GHALIB: I haven't seen any of that and I haven't heard anything about that.
HEMMER: What about another question though? What about the whole idea about these statutes of Saddam Hussein being targeted and torn down over the past, say, 24 to 36 hours. Do the people living in that town truly believe that they're in the process of being essentially freed from the rule of Saddam Hussein? Do they believe that?
AL-GHALIB: Yes, they do. The first intersection we went to where the generals got taken, there was a huge statue of Saddam Hussein there and it looked like it was in pretty good shape to me.
HEMMER: Do you want to continue?
AL-GHALIB: Yes, I forgot what the other part of your question was.
HEMMER: That's all right. I just wanted to know about the people in Basra and whether or not they're truly convinced that the regime is under attack as opposed to 12 years ago in the Persian Gulf War?
AL-GHALIB: Yes, many people believe that this is a war against Islam. But the majority of the people that I've spoken to feel that this is a war against Saddam and they are very, very happy about his removal. The people that we've spoken to, when there is a camera in their face, they were saying, "With our life, with our blood, with our soldiers, with (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Saddam." But as soon as the camera was taken away and they were on a one-on-one interview with me, we were hearing that they are very, very happy that Saddam was taken away.
HEMMER: How often did that happen? Did it happen every time you interviewed someone?
AL-GHALIB: Well, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the first day, when we got into Iraq, there was a lot of presses, a lot of cameras and the people there were chanting what I just told you. I pulled one of them aside and said, "Why are you doing this? I mean the humanitarian relief you're getting is from the Kuwait Red Crescent Society." And they said if the U.S. and the U.K. forces decide to leave and Saddam stayed, anyone who has forced any kind of opposition against Saddam Hussein or the Ba'ath Party is going to get massacred, so we have to protect ourselves. HEMMER: Wow! All right, we have to go to another report here. Quickly though, the whole thought about the American and the British saying they have to win the hearts and the minds of the Iraqi people. In your assessment, the people you've talked to, is that possible?
AL-GHALIB: It's possible, but they need to follow up with the humanitarian aid that has been promised. We've seen people in Umm Qasr and in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- only in Umm Qasr; they have not had their electricity and water for days at a time. When we drove into Umm Qasr, several boys and girls were walking up to us, asking us for water, asking for food.
HEMMER: Essam Al-Ghalib, writer for the "Arab News," thanks for sharing your story. And are you going back or will you be able to have...
AL-GHALIB: Absolutely.
HEMMER: OK, good luck to you, all right. Be safe.
AL-GHALIB: Thank you.
HEMMER: In the meantime, I want to check back in with Ryan Chilcote embedded with the 101st Airborne Division, 3rfd Brigade.
Checking in with us, Ryan. I haven't heard from you in about 24 hours. What's happening with you there?
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, as you can see, another beautiful day near Najaf, Iraq. At least 27 Iraqis now being held in the custody of 101st Airborne Division. The exact circumstances of how they ended up in the custody of the 101st not entirely clear, but the initial report is that these Iraqi men walked up to a long-range artillery position and asked to surrender. They told U.S. forces that they had been forced or coerced to fight for Saddam Fedayeen. As you know, that is a paramilitary group very loyal to the Iraqi leader, President Saddam Hussein.
Now, you're going to see some very graphic pictures. These soldiers now preparing the Iraqis to be transferred to another brigade. One soldier explained to me this may look inhumane. This may look very rough. But this is necessary, he said, and very short term during the process of the transfer to the other unit. And that may indeed be the case because we followed these -- this transfer to the next unit, and there, the Iraqis were researched and one U.S. servicemen actually found a large shard of glass inside the mouth of one of the Iraqis that he says -- that he believes that Iraqi was going to use as a weapon against U.S. servicemen, so a very interesting situation, very, perhaps, telling -- Bill.
HEMMER: Ryan, thanks. Ryan Chilcote with the 101st Airborne Division in south central Iraq. And Ryan's been checking in every day. They have moved quite a bit at a good rate of speed. But as Ryan continues to check in, we'll follow the developments of 101st.
Meanwhile, northern Iraq, in the town of Kalak, Ben Wedeman has seen some bombing, extensive over night last night.
Ben, good evening to you.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, good evening, Bill. Actually, it's been a very intense day of air activity here in the north. Now, here in Kalak itself, which is on the front lines between the Iraqi and Kurdish forces, we saw four bombs fall on the ridgeline behind me, which is occupied by the Iraqi army. But at the same time, we saw flying overhead. I don't know how many B-52 bombers heading into the direction of Mosul, which is 28 miles to the west of me, where according to al Jazerra Television, several targets in and around the city have been hit. We also saw B-52s heading this way in the direction of Kirkuk, which is about 40 miles to the southeast of here. And so, therefore, it does appear that the U.S. and coalition forces are at least focusing much more air power than they were before on the northern area.
Despite that intensified focus, we had a chance to go down to the river behind me and see up closely Iraqi positions, which have been bombed by these planes. And one odd thing we noticed was that most of the craters where those bombs had fallen were about 60 feet below the top of the hill. In other words, 60 feet below where the Iraqi positions actually are. And we've been watching, of course, as we have for many days now, the activity of the Iraqi soldiers in their positions. And when they do not hear an airplane overhead, they seem fairly relaxed. This despite the fact that we've seen in several areas around here, Iraqi forces pulling back, pulling back on the road between Erbil and Kirkuk, that oil-rich city from several directions. But it does appear that rather than pulling back because they've come under fire, they're pulling back really to take up defensive positions -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Ben, thanks. Ben Wedeman again watching the northern front. There, as Ben has pointed out for the past several days, the bombing has intensified and again, earlier today, the bombing did continue there on the northern front. We'll keep a track of that and everything else that's going on right now.
Back to the CNN Center. Once again, here is Leon -- Leon.
HARRIS: All right. Thanks, Bill.
U.S. Marines are facing some difficult missions in Iraq and one of the toughest of them is dealing with these paramilitary forces that are occupying some cities. Martin Savidge is embedded with the 1st Battalion of the 7th Marines and he was there for one attempt to reduce the threat to the Fedayeen that we've been talking about so much lately. Martin checks in now live.
Hello, Marty.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Leon. You're right, it is a difficult job for the Marines, not one they certainly can't handle, but still it's a tough job. And today was a day where they found out that perhaps the hand of kindness sometimes can be even stronger than military muscle. Now let me explain what I mean by that. They've been doing sweeps through nearby villages and towns looking for these Fedayeen or paramilitary forces that have been striking at the supply lines and U.S. military positions. They went in with a lot of force. They had their armored personnel carriers, armed to the teeth, guns in the ready. They were also Marines on the ground coming in from another direction. They have the town very much surrounded. If need be, military force could have easily had been used, but that's not the way they went.
Instead they brought in those, well, large Jeeps that have the speakers on top. They call them the Psychological Operations Unit, made announcements in Arabic, warning the people that they were there, telling them that they would be all right if they stayed in their homes. And there were Arabic speakers amongst the Marines. And they went in search of the leaders of that village. They didn't want to fight. They wanted to talk, to find out if there were any of these paramilitary units operating in the area, had they been living or working out of any of the homes in this particular village? They wanted information that they could get from sitting down face-to-face in talking with people and that's exactly what they did.
In fact, the commander of the whole operation, despite how intense it may have seemed in the beginning, sat down and had lunch with the village there, and they put out quite a big spread. And they also gave out information and that's where it proves to be a vital link between meeting with the people of Iraq, those people that you come across with the Marine units. And it also, they found out, that there was a need in that village for fresh water because their pump had been closed down, they claim, by Iraqi soldiers. The U.S. forces in this case, the Marines, say they will work to get that pump turned back on.
And after it was all said and done, the commander said he was much better feeling about the security issue in this particular town as a result of meeting people face-to-face instead of looking at them through a gun site -- Leon.
HARRIS: Well, Marty, the first question that comes to mind then is whether or not it's -- I know it may be impossible to tell right now, but is it -- do you think that perhaps their minds actually have been changed or have been won over by this outreach by the Marines there?
SAVIDGE: Well, this is one village. This is one incident and let's not kid ourselves. The commander said, "Hey, even though I've been here, I've met these people, this village seems peaceful and fine, I would not be letting my boys walk down Main Street here." They take it with a certain grain of salt here. Force security is no. 1, paramount in their minds. And they also know that (a) if the paramilitary groups are not in that particular village, they're still active in the area and the Marines are still on their trail.
HARRIS: Yes, but -- so when the Marines leave there, Marty, do they still keep one eye cast backward then? SAVIDGE: They will. If this unit moves on, other units move in, they'll continue to police the area. The last thing you want is to move out and just have the paramilitary units come right back in and you're back to where you started again.
HARRIS: All right, understood. Thanks, Marty. You be well. Take care of yourself and be careful. We'll check back with you later on. Marty Savidge out there with the Marines.
Now, let's go to Bill Hemmer -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Leon. Checking in again on the telephone, Walt Rodgers with the 7th Calvary about 50 miles southwest of Baghdad.
Walt, what do you have now?
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Bill. As I look out along the northern horizon, I can see stretched in a huge arch, stretching for miles and miles, the vehicles of the 3rd Squadron 7th Calvary taking up positions for the night. Bradley fighting vehicles, main battle tanks, all across the horizon like a (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which is drawn.
As you point out, we're about 50 miles from the southern suburbs of Baghdad. However, there is going to be a bit of a military problem advancing because the Iraqis do have two very large divisions north of us and between Baghdad and the 7th Calvary's position. One of those is, of course, the Medina Division, the other is the Hammeradi Division. Both of those divisions are fully capable of putting up a major fight and so, at this point, the 7th Calvary appears to be nearly standing in that arch on the horizon.
It was the hope of the commanders that perhaps some of the Republican Guard units from Hammeradi or Medina would come out and fight. That has not worked so far. That is to say, they haven't taken the bait. One reason, they were bloodied very badly about five days ago. The Medina Division knew that the 7th Calvary had taken up a position northeast of Najaf. They sent out an armored convoy to try to intercept the 7th Calvary. When they were lured out of their bunkers near Baghdad, they were hammered from the air by B-52s and other Air Force planes. So, perhaps it's going to be more difficult to persuade these Republican Guard units to come out and fight now, having been very badly bloodied about five days ago. Indeed, one Army officer told me that he thinks that the Medina Division was probably degraded anywhere from 45 to 65 percent once they came out and tried to fight and got hammered by the Air Force --Bill.
HEMMER: Walter, more on that. We've been told for days now the Medina Division has been pounded from the air. Can you give us a sense, from your perspective, listening to the action, probably not seeing it so well but listening to it about how intense it's been?
RODGERS: Well, the Medina Division, as it sits close to Baghdad, I can't help with. But I can say that in cities like Al Samawa and Najaf and others going northward along the Euphrates in the general direction of Baghdad, wherever those units move into the city, the army moves in fairly quickly afterwards. It is not conducting noting sieges of the city to the best of my knowledge at this point. But once they come out, once the Republican Guard units come out and take up positions in the cities, which is what they seem to be doing, they stay there and they don't come out for a fight. That's the position the 7th Calvary finds itself in now.
We're close to another city south of Baghdad. However, the Iraqis are not taking the bait. They're not coming out for a fight. They're taking refuge in the city. There's been considerable hammering of the multiple launch rocket systems in the general direction of the Republican Guard units around one city, which we're not allowed to divulge. And we've seen the .155 millimeters coming over, but again they're sticking close to the city, not coming out, not taking on the 7th Calvary head on -- Bill.
HEMMER: Yes, Walter, a strategy question. I don't know if you can answer it or not but I'll give it a shot anyway. If the air assault is working in terms of softening up the Medina and the Hammeradi, as you described, does that mean the land campaign, the land assault, face-to-face, head-to-head, may not happen for some time?
RODGERS: It's a difficult question to answer not because of security restrictions but merely because of the front I'm on with the 7th Calvary is a very narrow focus. It's just one arrow on the map headed for Baghdad. I'm not sure what's happening at Nasiriyah and Basra.
When the southeastern front starts pushing towards Baghdad, then you might begin to see the ultimate siege. But it has to be a coordinated movement and so far, the other units are pretty far behind the Army in terms of making moves toward Baghdad. What we're seeing is a leapfrogging motion. The 7th Calvary goes out, takes ground, waits for reinforcements to come up, fill in the gaps and then, the Calvary goes forward again. It's working -- it's a very, very slope strategy worked out General Buffblant (ph) of the 3rd Infantry Division. It's working very well on the 7th Calvary's front, but beyond that, I can't comment, again, because I have only the view of the horizon in front of me and not the entire sweep of southern Iraq -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right. Walt, thanks. Walt Rodgers by way of telephone.
It's evening, Heidi and Leon, at this point in Iraq not only here in Kuwait but Iraq as well, which means the sun's going down and it's getting darker. But we'll check back in again with our embedded reporters as we go along in the day here.
Back to you both now at the CNN Center.
HARRIS: All right. Good deal, Bill, see you in just a second. We're going to take a break right now. But before we go, I just want to drop a couple of things on you. We've been able to bring you unprecedented coverage of the war in Iraq, but there's one image that you're not going to see, America's war dead. COLLINS: That's right, coming home to Dover Air Force Base. There's a controversy over the Pentagon's decision to keep scenes like this out of the public eye.
HARRIS: That's right. Also, an American soldier missing in action. The Pentagon says a wrong turn put her unit on the road to a deadly encounter with Iraqi forces. Coming up, we'll take a look at what happened to the 507th Maintenance Company.
COLLINS: And an inside look at the latest from frontlines. CNN correspondents are traveling with coalition troops throughout Iraq. We will have the very latest coming up in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Back here live in Kuwait City; I want to get you Baghdad quickly by telephone. The ICRC, the International Committee of the Red Cross, checking in again with us is Roland Huguenin-Benjamin. We have talked to him off and on for the past 10 days running.
And sir, good evening to you. Before we talk about the mission of the Red Cross in Baghdad, can you give us the status reports of bombings either right now or earlier today?
ROLAND HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN, INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS: Well, we spent Sunday with (UNINTELLIGIBLE), well, practically, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) found distant bombing. Only the early morning when we got up, there were series of very violent explosions that seemed to have been much closer even though we couldn't identify it at the time. It was reported later that it was a phone exchange that had been targeted.
HEMMER: What about the mission on the POWs? Has there been any positive contact right now with the Iraqis in terms of visiting Americans or Brits held captive?
HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN: Well, you know, that this is the -- typically, the action of ICRC that is kept confidential for the sake of the prisoners themselves. We do not comment unless -- until the visits actually have taken place. We are very hopeful that we will not be delayed. I think I mentioned it the other day, that there are all kinds of technicalities involved there in the sense that the prisoners must be taken to a safe place under the supervision of the officers not of rank-and-file soldiers.
And then there will be the question of how we can geographically move and gain access to them. We are in Baghdad. We have a team in the south. And then it remains to be organized for us or for our team in the south to actually perform the visits.
HEMMER: Can you clarify this then for us if you could? Have Iraqis been cooperative or can you gauge their level of cooperation of level at this point?
HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN: It's difficult to comment on these types of activities, but definitely, the contacts have been established right from the beginning of the conflict and assurances have been given that in case the would-be prisoners of war, ICRC would be entitled to visit them. You know that we have had a long history of visiting prisoners of war in this country, and in the neighboring countries over the past two conflicts, and we are definitely hopeful that there will be a positive outcome out with these contacts.
HEMMER: Yes, this is Sunday. You know that. It's past 6:00 in the evening in Baghdad. Is this visit days away or in your estimation, is this visit weeks away?
HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN: I really wouldn't be able to comment on that. I'm sorry.
HEMMER: OK. Let's talk about something else. What else is the Red Cross doing in terms of civilian casualties in the hospitals? Can you give us a fair read on what's happening on that front?
HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN: On that front, now that we are over a week into the military hospitals, it looks like we can more or less establish an average of -- a daily average of about 100 casualties in Baghdad proper. As to the rest of the country, of course, we are concerned that, of course, there are hostilities going on in lots of other locations now out of cities between Basra and Baghdad and the southern half of country.
Not being physically present there ourselves, we do hope that it will soon become possible to move about, if conditions permit for evaluation and assessment of what is going on in the other cities. Our primary concern is that casualties should be evacuated in proper time, and taken to hospitals and be given the appropriate treatment.
HEMMER: All right.
HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN: We will give our support for surgical equipment if needed. But it seems that the hospitals are organized in first line, second line hospitals. First line taking in casualties, second line taking care of other patients, and things seem to be under control so far. But nevertheless we would like to be able to access the situation in both cities.
HEMMER: All right. I'd like to get updates all the time from you on all three topics, what's happening in and around the city, certainly with the civilian population and the hospitals, and the POWs now being held by the Iraqis. Thanks again for checking in. Roland Huguenin-Benjamin with the International Committee of the Red Cross, working as he always has been now for weeks in the city of Baghdad.
Heidi, again, to you at the CNN Center.
COLLINS: Thanks, Bill. At this hour, we're watching the skies over Baghdad. We're told at least four large explosions rocked a residential area of the Iraqi capital earlier this morning. Smoke was seen from rising from apartment buildings in an area where some government officials are said to have lived.
On the northern front now, coalition aircraft carried out air strikes aimed at dislodging Iraqi forces near the town of Kalak. The town is near the line between Kurdish and Iraqi controlled areas. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in the area and reports at least five heavy air strikes overnight.
In the wake of a deadly suicide bombing against American troops, Iraq's neighbor, Iran, is warning the worst is yet to come. The Iranian foreign minister says suicide bombings like the one in Najaf will likely escalate as the war goes on.
The U.S. soldier suspected in a deadly grenade attack on fellow soldiers is back in America. Hassan Akbar was brought back to the U.S. Friday after being detained in Germany. He has not been charged but authorities say they believe Akbar is responsible for killing two servicemen and wounding 14 others in the attack at Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait.
The editor of "Newsday" says two of the paper's reporters may have been detained by the Iraqi government. The paper says it has not been able it get any information on the journalists from Baghdad. And three journalists from the Arab network al Harabi (ph) have been found. The network showed this video of the men being greeted by the Kuwaiti information minister. The journalists had been missing since March 22.
HARRIS: There are a number of journalists still missing in that area.
COLLINS: I know it.
HARRIS: All right. Let's go now to the Pentagon and get the latest developments from there. Patty Davis standing by.
Hello, Patty.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Leon. Well, U.S. military officials are bracing the American public for what they say will be some dangerous days ahead as U.S. troops move toward Baghdad and get set to engage a greater number of those elite Republican Guard units. Now, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says there will be no pauses and there will be no ceasefires.
Now, Rumsfeld is denying published reports that he insisted on a smaller number of ground troops in Iraq and the head of Joint Chiefs of Staff today, like the defense secretary, is defending the overall war plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHARIMAN: The start of the war was meant to achieve some strategic objectives, which it's done. We wanted to get as much tactical surprise as we could. And so, you've got to start when you think you have that surprise. That surprise brought us, by the way, some very important things. It brought us no environmental disaster because the oil fields in the south are secured for the Iraqi people. It brought us a 200-mile advance in about 36 hours. (END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: Now, U.S. military officials say there is no evidence of recent communication between Saddam Hussein and his son, Uday. And General Franks, the head of U.S. Central Command says there is no evidence that the Iraqi leader is still in control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: I don't know whether the leader of this regime is dead or alive. I don't know. Perhaps someone knows, but I don't know. I will say this -- I have not seen credible evidence over the last period of days, since we started this operation, that this regime is being controlled from the top, as we understand the top.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: Coalition troops have not yet turned up any evidence of weapons of mass destruction. Defense secretary Rumsfeld said that that is because troops have not yet made it to the suspected sites -- Leon.
HARRIS: All right. Thank you, Patty. We'll get back to you in just a bit.
We should hear some more from the plans there and the main war planners. The coalition military campaign this afternoon is going to be talked about quite a bit. Joint Chiefs Chairman General Richard Myers is going to be joining our Wolf Blitzer today on "LATE EDITION." That's right here on the network at noon Eastern, 9:00 pacific. Make sure you stay tuned for that.
Now, CNN's live coverage of Operation Iraqi Freedom continues after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Coalition troops exercising more caution in their operations in Iraq after a deadly suicide bombing yesterday. Authorities say the bomber, posing as a taxi driver, killed himself, and four American soldiers at a checkpoint near the city of Najaf. Iraq says there will be more suicide bombings to come, both in Iraq and abroad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAHA YASSIN RAMADAN, IRAQI VICE PRESIDENT (through translator): This is only the beginning, and you will hear more good news in the coming days. These bastards will be welcomed at the level and in the way they deserve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: I want to talk more about the suicide bombings as a war tactic and for that, we bring back CNN's analyst, Ken Pollack to talk about it.
Ken, welcome back to you. Apparently, there's been some sort of monetary award put out there, $35,000, we are told, awarded with the family of the man who blew himself up yesterday. Do you know based on history of these financial incentives work be it Iraq or, I guess, more accurately in the Middle East and the West Bank and Israel?
KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST/BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: You've really put your finger on it, Bill. The Iraqis are watching or have been watching very carefully other instances out there where they think the tactics of the week have worked against the strong. They understand that they can't win this war militarily. They've got to win it psychologically. And they went looking around the world for instances that can help them. One of the ones that they seemed to have looked at is Hezbollah in Lebanon and as you've suggested, Hezbollah -- what we found over the years has had a very good track record of recruiting suicide bombers in exactly this fashion. They find poor young boys whose families are destitute, who have no real job prospects. And they promise enormous rewards for their families if they agree to conduct suicide attacks. It's been the secret of Hezbollah's success. It's been the way that they've recruited these Hamas, Palestinian-Islamic jihad have also been able to recruit suicide bombers in this way and clearly, the Iraqis are doing the same thing.
HEMMER: Yes, do you think the U.S. military has been trained in any way on how to deal with this? Or is this a process that, learning right now day-to-day now that we're about 24 hours past the first one?
POLLACK: I think it's some of both, Bill. On the one hand, U.S. forces are very concerned about force protection. It's something that the U.S. military has become increasingly concerned about over the last 10 or 15 years. They take a lot of precautions. They do do a lot of training, but of course, every situation is different. And I think it's pretty clear that U.S. forces went into Iraq and they really weren't expecting to fight this kind of a fight. And as a result, they are doing a lot of on-the-job training right now, taking skills that they practiced and learned stateside before they ever went to war and trying to adapt them to these unique conditions that they're finding in Iraq.
HEMMER: And I know, Ken, we've talked about this yesterday, though, how do you engage a civilian population, wearing a military uniform, trying to win the -- quote/unquote -- "hearts and minds of the Iraqi people?" That's got to be a pretty tough balance.
POLLACK: Absolutely.
HEMMER: In your estimation, how do you strike it, if possible?
POLLACK: You're absolutely right, Bill. This is a very tough balance. And I think that what you're seeing is different units out there, finding different ways to do it. Some of the reports that have been on CNN this morning, I think, get right at that the issue. Marty Savidge's report about the Marines who went into that village and they sat down with the headmen of village and developed a rapport there to try to convince the people of the village that the United States was on their side, was going to protect them, and to enlist their support.
You know Mao Tse Tung once said that "the guerrillas are the fish that swim in the sea of the people." What we found over the years is that the best way to defeat guerrilla forces is to get the sea, the people themselves, to turn against the fish. If you can do, the guerrilla threat evaporates quickly. So what Marines are doing in Marty Savidge's report, what the British are doing down in Basra in Christiane Amanpour's earlier report, that's critical to winning this fight.
HEMMER: Well, onto Ansar Al-Islam. Let's talk about this group, said to be a terrorist group in northeast Iraq. You heard Tommy Franks say there was massive destruction done to that camp up there. And obviously, the operation continues in and around that camp to find information. Did they find information there that may tell them more about the Iraqi leadership in Baghdad or is that a separate issue?
POLLACK: Well, I just don't think we know at this point in time, Bill. The Bush administration has been claiming that there are very close ties between the -- between Saddam Hussein's regime and Ansar Al-Islam. There are others who are suggesting that maybe the ties are a little bit more tenuous but there are more maybe tacit understandings, but not close cooperation. I think that only time will tell. We'll see what the evidence -- what the evidence found in the camp actually portrays.
But I also think that we need to be a little bit circumspect. Just as we found in Afghanistan, going after the terrorist camps is important. It's good to deny that net base of operations, but it doesn't necessarily solve the problem. And many of the Ansar al-Islam personnel may have fled long before the village was taken. They may be still on the loose and I don't think that U.S. forces should assume that any problems with Ansar al-Islam have necessarily been resolved at this point in time.
HEMMER: Ken, thanks. Ken Pollack, author of "Threatening Storm," former CIA analyst, whose job at the time was to examine the Iraqi military. Thanks, Ken, always great to talk to you and get your insights.
POLLACK: Good to talk to you too.
HEMMER: I appreciate it. We'll see you a bit later. All right, let's get a break here. More images from Operation Iraqi Freedom. The war in Iraq continues now, day 11. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: The Pentagon says that Iraq is holding seven prisoners of war, and among them five members of the Army's 507th Maintenance Company. Those soldiers were deployed from Fort Bliss, Texas just a few weeks ago and now, their friends and loved ones are searching for answers. Our Ed Lavandera reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): February 17, this was deployment day for the 507th Maintenance Company of Fort Bliss, Texas. Soldiers checked their equipment and posed for family pictures.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right then.
LAVANDERA: Private First Class Lori Paistewa shared some last minute thoughts.
PFC. LORI PAISTEWA, 507TH MAINTENANCE COMPANY: It's very important to me, like, knowing that my family is going to be taken care of, just knowing they'll be OK while I'm out there. You know I don't have to worry about nothing while I'm out there.
LAVANDERA: Almost six weeks since these pictures were taken. Paistewa is now one of eight soldiers from this unit listed as missing in action. Two are confirmed dead and five others are being held as prisoners of war. This, after their convoy took what's been called a wrong turn, as they approached the southern Iraqi city of Nasiriyah last Sunday. But what went wrong? U.S. representative, Silvester Reyes is from El Paso and also sits on the Armed Services Committee.
REP. SILVESTER REYES (D) TEXAS: There's no doubt in my mind that when this maintenance group that was lightly armed, you know, with side arms and light weapons, came up against two Iraqi tanks, heavy automatic weapons, they were -- they were clearly outgunned.
LAVANDERA: The battles around Nasiriyah have been fierce, some of the most intense fighting this war has seen. According to several sources, a six-truck convoy was helping resupply and support frontline troops. They were supposed to be operating in a secured area.
REYES: Because the supply lines are over 200 miles long and there are pockets of Iraqi military all along this route, we can't afford to assume that it's a secure area.
LAVANDERA: The Pentagon says the convoy took a wrong turn. When the truck started crossing a bridge, what's described as an irregular Iraqi force, launched in ambush. Shoshana Johnson is a cook in the 507th Maintenance Company. She's now a POW. Her father never imagined she'd ever be close to the frontlines.
CLAUDE JOHNSON, FATHER OF POW: When you're coming up behind, there's supposed to be people that set checkpoints and so on and so forth along the way. What happened? Did they miss a checkpoint? They made a wrong turn. Were they supposed to turn? What happened? Where's the break down?
LAVANDERA: Most of what happened in the ensuing fight is still unknown. Marines from the 1st Expeditionary Force moved in and rescued one wounded soldier and the bodies of two dead soldiers. What happened to some of the other soldiers appeared on Arab television. Representative Reyes says the images will eventually prove the Iraqis have committed war crimes. REYES: It's pretty disgusting, and I think when people -- the people that have seen it, know exactly how what an atrocity has been committed against our soldiers. And the violations that have been perpetrated by the regime are going to be very evident.
LAVANDERA: The Pentagon is still investigating how and why part of the 507th Maintenance Company drove into what it calls an ambush. Military officials aren't talking about the specifics yet especially since the lives of five POWs and eight soldiers missing in action are still very much on the line.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Fort Bliss, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: All right. Let's take a closer look now at how the military goes out and finds the troops that are either missing in action or being held by enemy forces. And for that, we're joined by our military analyst, retired major General Don Shepperd, who I should say, also, has written extensively about all of this as well.
Now, what exactly happens when you first learn or are notified or at least identified the fact that there are some missing soldiers?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET), U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, we got a new status. In this war, Leon, it's called Whereabouts Unknown. We're carrying them as Whereabouts Unknown for 48 hours and then declaring them in missing in action. Right now, there are seven. This is a well-known process in every war. The families are immediately notified and then every effort is made to find out all information available on the people during the conflict and after the conflict.
We are still right now uncovering information and remains from the World War II and Korea and of course, Vietnam. Over 2,000 people still missing in Vietnam. At some point, they are declared dead, but the efforts go on. The joint task force, full accounting, is operating in Hawaii right now on the Vietnam. As the Gulf War -- all of our people from the Gulf War were accounted for, but one pilot, Scott Spiker (ph) has -- because of a reexamination of the case, his status has been changed to missing in action.
Iran-Iraq War, approximately -- well, their last of the prisoners have been exchanged, but 95,000 prisoners have been exchanged and there's still about 5,000 unaccounted for in that Iran-Iraq War between the two sides that we simply don't have any idea about.
HARRIS: Procedure-wise, is there a difference then when that status becomes officially missing in action? What happens when they become -- when they go past that 48-hour period?
SHEPPERD: Well, when they become missing in action, basically it's a status that is kicked off and certain benefits kick into the families. Of course, when they are then declared killed in action, either because they find remains or they find evidence that they've been killed in action or a certain amount of time has past -- and those judgments are made in a very formal way -- then the benefits to the families change. So the important thing is that the families are notified. They are taken care of and the status is monitored to the best benefit of the families involved. It's a very careful process.
HARRIS: Yes. What -- are families in any way -- I know we talked earlier before about how the troops themselves are actually trained for the prospect of possibly being POW. Is there any thinking at all about training the families to prepare for that possibility?
SHEPPERD: I don't think there's any way to train the families ahead of time. I think basically what you try to do is keep in touch with the family. The immediate commanders, the people in involved, try to keep in touch with the families and let them know every piece of information that they can. But there isn't any way to train for this. Families whose remains are not returned are essentially haunted and wondering forever. And I've got several friends going through that, still from the Vietnam War.
HARRIS: Really? Sorry to hear that. Let me ask you this, as a general here, now that we've seen how this embedding process has been working with reporters actually being there, it seems like if I'm the family member of someone who's over there serving right now, it might be kind of scary to watch the news because the reports that we're getting now are so instantaneous that we may be getting reports ahead of the Pentagon actually calling me to inform me about something like that that happened to a family member.
SHEPPERD: Indeed. We're going to have to learn how to do this embedding. We're at the early stages and you're exactly right. Immediate information gets to families even before official notification can take place because the official notification is somewhat slow for a very good reason. You don't want to go out there and alarm a family until you get the right information. It takes a while to do that, so they may get information or they may see things that alarm them. And that's part of the embedding.
HARRIS: Let me ask you one last question. It just jumped in my mind. Technically, we've got so many different, new technological advances that we're using right now. Is there anything that -- do soldiers or Marines or sailors, whatever, do they have any special equipment they carry that helps you find them or help you identify their status?
SHEPPERD: No, they don't. We try to keep track of people, but of course, in a battle, sometimes people fall and locals bury them. And you go out back after the war and try to find that. But one big factor that helps us is the DNA, the new process of DNA from family -- gathered from family members that can help us identify remains many, many years after the war. And it's the ugly part of war. That's what goes, Leon.
HARRIS: All right. Well, here's hoping that it is a very short part of this one.
SHEPPERD: Indeed.
HARRIS: Major General Don Shepperd, thank as always.
Bill, over to you in Kuwait City.
HEMMER: All right, Leon. Thanks. Coming up in the 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time hour here on CNN, we want to take you once again to the frontlines of the fighting as the U.S. pushes three fronts on the road to Baghdad. Also, Iraqi officials threatening more suicide attacks on coalition troops as a grim, new battlefield tactic takes the lives of four members of the U.S. Army on Saturday. And the faces of pain, Christiane Amanpour reports on why the military is not being welcomed with opened arms by some civilians in Iraq. Her story and more when we continue after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: No anti-war protests are expected in the small town of Hinesville, Georgia, a community that's deeply affected by what's going on in Iraq. It is home to the 3rd Infantry Division, which has already suffered casualties. CNN's Brian Cabell reports on the mood of those on the home front.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There weren't tens of thousands demonstrating here in Hinesville. There weren't massive arrests. Know that demonstrators here totaled here maybe 500. But look at them, almost all soldiers' wives and children with a very personal interest in what's happening in Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have loved ones over there that are going through things that we can't even imagine. And it's just -- it's heart wrenching.
CABELL: Hinesville is home to Fort Stewart, the 3rd Infantry Division based here. But virtually all of the division, about 17,000 soldiers strong, is now fighting its way towards Baghdad. Already at least six soldiers from Fort Stewart have been killed in Iraq. Life in Hinesville has been somber lately, not much to do but watch TV, wait for good news, pray you don't get bad news and at least on this day face away your fears loudly with others who share your predicaments.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Right now, we want to show you the live pictures that we're getting from Baghdad. This coming from a camera. Its' being run by the Ala-Rabiha (ph) Network. And as you can see here, there is a fully engaged fire there in downtown Baghdad. Smoke in the air. Presumably, this is evidence of another air strike there in Baghdad. We, of course, do not know exactly what part of the town this is since we don't have any people there on the ground to talk to. And we do not know exactly if there are other -- if this is a part of a wave of bombs being dropped there or whatever. But right now, as you can see, it's near 7:00 p.m. local time there in downtown Baghdad there. There is some heavy activity under way right now. We'll keep our eye on that and we'll show you whatever we get as soon as it does come in to us.
COLLINS: Let's go ahead and bring in Bill Hemmer, who is in Kuwait.
Bill, are you -- I'm sure you're getting a glimpse of these pictures.
HEMMER: Yes, listen, Heidi and Leon, often times -- it's 7:00 local time in Baghdad -- and often times when the sun goes down, we have seen it pick up in the activity, the air strikes over the capital city. This coincides with the pattern we've seen in the past. And it also coincides with what the Red Cross official was reporting about an hour ago, about the explosions he is seeing himself.
Earlier on Sunday, rather, we do know a period of time where explosions did occur yet again there, and late last night, around 2:00 a.m., said to be large explosions around the information ministry. We're told that there was so much damage done to that building, 11 stories tall, that the Iraqis have now moved that center of operations about a mile and a half away to the Palestine Hotel. Incidentally, that's the hotel where a number of international journalists are now being housed in Baghdad.
Tom Mintier also chipped in earlier today from CENTCOM down in Qatar. He says now the U.S. believes -- they believe that earlier they had 19 oil trenches dug and ready for burning on the outskirts of Baghdad, but now, they believe that number has been more than doubled to 50 oil trenches. Not quite sure how many might be burning right now. About 50 are lit, but nonetheless, the coalition forces and the surveillance they do over the city of Baghdad indicates that 50 have been constructed right now, which is a heavy increase from the previous number.
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Threatening Civilians in Basra>
Aired March 30, 2003 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. It is Sunday, March 30, good to have you here. 10:00 a.m. back on the East Coast in the U.S., 7:00 on the West Coast. It is 6:00 here in Kuwait and 6:00 in Baghdad. You're watching CNN's coverage of Operation Iraqi Freedom now in Day 11. Good to have you back with us. I'm Bill Hemmer live again today in Kuwait City. Joining me again this hour is Leon Harris and Heidi Collins both at CNN Center. Heidi gets things started with a look at what's happening this hour.
Good morning again to you and good evening from Kuwait.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Bill.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Bill. Thanks so much. We are going to take a look at the latest developments now in the war in Iraq.
The U.S. military says six people were injured at a U.S. camp in Kuwait. A civilian drove a pickup truck into a crowd waiting in line outside a military store. Military police fired on the vehicle. It's not yet known what happened to the driver.
British Marines report a major capture in the battle for Basra. A spokesman says an Iraqi general is now in custody. The highest- ranking capture so far. Earlier, British commandos killed an Iraqi colonel who was the leader in the Republican Guard and captured five other leaders. The British forces also destroyed a Basra television tower and a large concrete image of Saddam Hussein.
U.S. Marines report progress in the battle for Nasiriyah, apparently, securing the southern bank of the Euphrates River. The battle has been drawn out for more than a week now and the Marines are reported still taking heavy fire from Iraqi positions. The U.S. has been fighting back with utility and Cobra helicopters.
The Pentagon confirms reports that bloody U.S. uniforms were found hidden in a hospital at Nasiriyah. The clothing is believed to belong to members of an Army maintenance company ambushed last week. U.S. forces captured the hospital also reporting what appears to be a torture device. It's the same hospital where 3,000 chemical protection suits were found several days ago.
The Islamic jihad says it is behind a suicide bomb attack by an Islamic militant in the Israeli coastal town of Netanya. Some 30 people were hurt, at least six people seriously in an outdoor coffee shop in a crowded pedestrian mall this morning. This is the first suicide bombing in Israel in nearly one month.
Leon, over to you.
HARRIS: Yes. Well, now, we got some images that we want to share with you folks this morning. Now, the war in Iraq now in its 11th day and throughout the fighting, we have seen some incredible images, images of heroism and hope and -- as well as suffering and sadness as well. And here are some of the most compelling images that we found today. Check these shots out here.
You're looking -- you're actually through the sites of an Army helicopter. Now, what it's doing is they're honing in on some suspected Iraqi fighters and the helicopter there is trying to keep these Iraqi fighters in place until they can be searched by coalition forces that are moving in.
Elsewhere, people of Basra, which you see here, literally, on the run, is fighting rages on in their southern city. British forces say that they're trying to route out any paramilitary forces who are threatening civilians there, and they said they've made quite a bit of progress in doing it there as well.
And a moment of calm brings some moments of caring and reflection for a U.S. Marine. The officials say that the Marine watched over this 4-year-old girl whose mother was killed after getting caught in the crossfire.
HEMMER: It does not appear that the situation inside of the town of Basra has changed much. However, we do know over the past several days, there have been secret operations going into the town of certain times and also operations conducted just southeast of the city. Christiane Amanpour now working with the British military in southeastern Iraq has this report right now.
Christiane, good evening to you. What more are you learning about the situation inside the town in the military operations now taking place around it?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Basra is quite slow-going. You know, the British had expected it to be a welcoming city almost from the very beginning, but what they found and what's been as the case is that the Iraqi army divisions, which were around Basra, have melted into the town and over the last 11 days have been firing out as well as the irregulars. So several -- several things have been going on.
That British military action that you described earlier, capturing senior army officers, and also as the civilians come out, they're starting, in some instances, to be caught in the crossfire, specifically today. Civilians were heading out of the west side of Basra toward British lines and a combat (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the course firing incident in which -- from the Iraqi side, there was five directed at a British checkpoint and then the British returned fire. We don't have any word of whether there are any casualties.
Also, the British trying to go into psychological warfare inside Basra, showing who is in charge or at least who'd they like to be in charge. Over the last few days it's been sporadically tense into the center of town. On occasion, they say to tear down the central statute of say Saddam, also the TV tower, cutting Baghdad's link, with Basra, they hope and they have been defacing and destroying murals with their large army bulldozer.
Now, they've also been trying to deal with the humanitarian situation and that started on sort of a small scale down south in Umm Qasr today. We saw the first water pipeline extended, that had been extended from Kuwait, start to gush water into tankers that they're hiring to take around to the town. It's a little bit confusing and it got off to a little bit if a slow start because the people were told that they may have to pay for the water and there was a lot of protests at that. So that's going to be sort of smoothed out, we hope, between the British and the American military, who have been running that war delivery operation.
And then, of course, the next phase, they'd like to try to bring in humanitarian aid, food, supplies and other such things into these cities. It must be said that the military is not used to this kind of humanitarian work, and they're really sort of filling a gap, filling a vacuum of the NGOs. And the U.N., who are experiencing this kind of thing, are not in the country at moment and some of today's humanitarian delivering problems can be probably attributed to that sort of inexperience at this level of humanitarian substance of a city -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Christiane, thanks. Christiane Amanpour, again, with the British military southeastern Iraq. We will check back with more as soon as we get it on the situation that still unfolds inside the town of Basra.
Back here, Essam al-Ghalib is a writer, a journalist for "Arab News," that's an English daily newspaper printed in Saudi Arabia. He, too, is Saudi. He joins us live here in Kuwait City.
Just about two days ago you were inside of Basra. You were also there on Thursday and Friday, so two days in a row. Before we started coming on the air here, you remarked about how quickly the situation changed. What changed when you went inside the city?
ESSAM AL-GLALIB, REPORTER, "ARAB NEWS": Well, Thursday afternoon we when we tried get into Basra, the British troops refused to let us in saying the situation was too dangerous. When we went in the following day, on Friday, they said the situation had calmed a bit. It was still risky, but we could enter at our own risk.
We walked into the town and we were faced out by another crew. My partner, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and I were on foot. We got picked up by a French TV crew and apparently, we were told later that someone had used the satellite phone and that had apparently alerted the Iraqis to our presence in the town. Immediately, shelling started. We started hearing machine gun fire very close to us. Just the situation had changed from being very, very calm. People walking the streets to just utter chaos. HEMMER: What is your sense right now of how much control the Ba'ath Party, how much control the paramilitaries have right now over the civilian population. By the way, this is a large town -- 1.4 million people live there.
AL-GHALIB: It's my understanding that they're the second largest town in Iraq. The situation was very, very calm. We went in, but one thing we noticed is that the Iraqi police still had control of the town. There was Arab bombardment going on, but there was no British or U.S. troops within the city itself. We went two kilometers into Basra, and the intersection there was still being controlled by Iraqi uniform police. There were no U.S. or U.K. troops to be seen.
HEMMER: Wow! We are rolling some videotape right now of part of your journey in there. What are we seeing, so we can describe it to our viewers?
AL-GHALIB: We are in the second -- actually, there was three cars in front of us, holding the Italian journalists that were stopped by the police. We rolled up behind them. We were going to make a u- turn to get out of Basra as the intense shelling started. They were the first three cars. They made a u-turn at the intersection, and we just noticed that the Iraqi police had lifted their AK-47s and were pointing them at the cars. They stopped and pulled them out of the vehicle. And at that point, we did a quick u-turn and we actually went against traffic rather quickly to escape.
HEMMER: So you got out.
AL-GHALIB: We got out.
HEMMER: And the fate of the Italian journalists is what at this point?
AL-GHALIB: Well, for the first 24 hours, we had no news. But I spoke with Italian radio last night and they said that the Italians had been transported to Baghdad. They were issued Iraqi visas and were being allowed to stay. They've been getting conflicting reports right now from other agencies as to what happened, but one thing for sure is that they are in Iraq, in Baghdad and they are safe and well.
HEMMER: Wow! They're alive then?
AL-GHALIB: Yes.
HEMMER: The refugee situation, what was your assessment? Why is it that we see this videotape of some coming streaming out of the city in the hundreds, by the dozens at least at certain times, and yet a lot of other people are choosing or -- either that or they're being forced to stay inside of Basra. What's the assessment about the choice to leave or having no choice in having to stay?
AL-GHALIB: The people we spoke to, they wanted to get out of there because of the situation and their part of the city was quite intense and quite dangerous. The Ba'ath Party does have control of different parts of the city. Some parts of the city they have not gone into. From my understanding from the people that I have spoke to is that the civilian -- I'm sorry, the military, the Iraqi military is wearing civilian clothing, forcing their way into people's homes and firing onto the American and the U.K. forces, I guess, during their aerial bombardment.
HEMMER: In addition to that, there were reports about Iraqi soldiers firing on Iraqi civilians, is that true? Did you see any of that?
AL-GHALIB: I haven't seen any of that and I haven't heard anything about that.
HEMMER: What about another question though? What about the whole idea about these statutes of Saddam Hussein being targeted and torn down over the past, say, 24 to 36 hours. Do the people living in that town truly believe that they're in the process of being essentially freed from the rule of Saddam Hussein? Do they believe that?
AL-GHALIB: Yes, they do. The first intersection we went to where the generals got taken, there was a huge statue of Saddam Hussein there and it looked like it was in pretty good shape to me.
HEMMER: Do you want to continue?
AL-GHALIB: Yes, I forgot what the other part of your question was.
HEMMER: That's all right. I just wanted to know about the people in Basra and whether or not they're truly convinced that the regime is under attack as opposed to 12 years ago in the Persian Gulf War?
AL-GHALIB: Yes, many people believe that this is a war against Islam. But the majority of the people that I've spoken to feel that this is a war against Saddam and they are very, very happy about his removal. The people that we've spoken to, when there is a camera in their face, they were saying, "With our life, with our blood, with our soldiers, with (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Saddam." But as soon as the camera was taken away and they were on a one-on-one interview with me, we were hearing that they are very, very happy that Saddam was taken away.
HEMMER: How often did that happen? Did it happen every time you interviewed someone?
AL-GHALIB: Well, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the first day, when we got into Iraq, there was a lot of presses, a lot of cameras and the people there were chanting what I just told you. I pulled one of them aside and said, "Why are you doing this? I mean the humanitarian relief you're getting is from the Kuwait Red Crescent Society." And they said if the U.S. and the U.K. forces decide to leave and Saddam stayed, anyone who has forced any kind of opposition against Saddam Hussein or the Ba'ath Party is going to get massacred, so we have to protect ourselves. HEMMER: Wow! All right, we have to go to another report here. Quickly though, the whole thought about the American and the British saying they have to win the hearts and the minds of the Iraqi people. In your assessment, the people you've talked to, is that possible?
AL-GHALIB: It's possible, but they need to follow up with the humanitarian aid that has been promised. We've seen people in Umm Qasr and in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- only in Umm Qasr; they have not had their electricity and water for days at a time. When we drove into Umm Qasr, several boys and girls were walking up to us, asking us for water, asking for food.
HEMMER: Essam Al-Ghalib, writer for the "Arab News," thanks for sharing your story. And are you going back or will you be able to have...
AL-GHALIB: Absolutely.
HEMMER: OK, good luck to you, all right. Be safe.
AL-GHALIB: Thank you.
HEMMER: In the meantime, I want to check back in with Ryan Chilcote embedded with the 101st Airborne Division, 3rfd Brigade.
Checking in with us, Ryan. I haven't heard from you in about 24 hours. What's happening with you there?
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, as you can see, another beautiful day near Najaf, Iraq. At least 27 Iraqis now being held in the custody of 101st Airborne Division. The exact circumstances of how they ended up in the custody of the 101st not entirely clear, but the initial report is that these Iraqi men walked up to a long-range artillery position and asked to surrender. They told U.S. forces that they had been forced or coerced to fight for Saddam Fedayeen. As you know, that is a paramilitary group very loyal to the Iraqi leader, President Saddam Hussein.
Now, you're going to see some very graphic pictures. These soldiers now preparing the Iraqis to be transferred to another brigade. One soldier explained to me this may look inhumane. This may look very rough. But this is necessary, he said, and very short term during the process of the transfer to the other unit. And that may indeed be the case because we followed these -- this transfer to the next unit, and there, the Iraqis were researched and one U.S. servicemen actually found a large shard of glass inside the mouth of one of the Iraqis that he says -- that he believes that Iraqi was going to use as a weapon against U.S. servicemen, so a very interesting situation, very, perhaps, telling -- Bill.
HEMMER: Ryan, thanks. Ryan Chilcote with the 101st Airborne Division in south central Iraq. And Ryan's been checking in every day. They have moved quite a bit at a good rate of speed. But as Ryan continues to check in, we'll follow the developments of 101st.
Meanwhile, northern Iraq, in the town of Kalak, Ben Wedeman has seen some bombing, extensive over night last night.
Ben, good evening to you.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, good evening, Bill. Actually, it's been a very intense day of air activity here in the north. Now, here in Kalak itself, which is on the front lines between the Iraqi and Kurdish forces, we saw four bombs fall on the ridgeline behind me, which is occupied by the Iraqi army. But at the same time, we saw flying overhead. I don't know how many B-52 bombers heading into the direction of Mosul, which is 28 miles to the west of me, where according to al Jazerra Television, several targets in and around the city have been hit. We also saw B-52s heading this way in the direction of Kirkuk, which is about 40 miles to the southeast of here. And so, therefore, it does appear that the U.S. and coalition forces are at least focusing much more air power than they were before on the northern area.
Despite that intensified focus, we had a chance to go down to the river behind me and see up closely Iraqi positions, which have been bombed by these planes. And one odd thing we noticed was that most of the craters where those bombs had fallen were about 60 feet below the top of the hill. In other words, 60 feet below where the Iraqi positions actually are. And we've been watching, of course, as we have for many days now, the activity of the Iraqi soldiers in their positions. And when they do not hear an airplane overhead, they seem fairly relaxed. This despite the fact that we've seen in several areas around here, Iraqi forces pulling back, pulling back on the road between Erbil and Kirkuk, that oil-rich city from several directions. But it does appear that rather than pulling back because they've come under fire, they're pulling back really to take up defensive positions -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Ben, thanks. Ben Wedeman again watching the northern front. There, as Ben has pointed out for the past several days, the bombing has intensified and again, earlier today, the bombing did continue there on the northern front. We'll keep a track of that and everything else that's going on right now.
Back to the CNN Center. Once again, here is Leon -- Leon.
HARRIS: All right. Thanks, Bill.
U.S. Marines are facing some difficult missions in Iraq and one of the toughest of them is dealing with these paramilitary forces that are occupying some cities. Martin Savidge is embedded with the 1st Battalion of the 7th Marines and he was there for one attempt to reduce the threat to the Fedayeen that we've been talking about so much lately. Martin checks in now live.
Hello, Marty.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Leon. You're right, it is a difficult job for the Marines, not one they certainly can't handle, but still it's a tough job. And today was a day where they found out that perhaps the hand of kindness sometimes can be even stronger than military muscle. Now let me explain what I mean by that. They've been doing sweeps through nearby villages and towns looking for these Fedayeen or paramilitary forces that have been striking at the supply lines and U.S. military positions. They went in with a lot of force. They had their armored personnel carriers, armed to the teeth, guns in the ready. They were also Marines on the ground coming in from another direction. They have the town very much surrounded. If need be, military force could have easily had been used, but that's not the way they went.
Instead they brought in those, well, large Jeeps that have the speakers on top. They call them the Psychological Operations Unit, made announcements in Arabic, warning the people that they were there, telling them that they would be all right if they stayed in their homes. And there were Arabic speakers amongst the Marines. And they went in search of the leaders of that village. They didn't want to fight. They wanted to talk, to find out if there were any of these paramilitary units operating in the area, had they been living or working out of any of the homes in this particular village? They wanted information that they could get from sitting down face-to-face in talking with people and that's exactly what they did.
In fact, the commander of the whole operation, despite how intense it may have seemed in the beginning, sat down and had lunch with the village there, and they put out quite a big spread. And they also gave out information and that's where it proves to be a vital link between meeting with the people of Iraq, those people that you come across with the Marine units. And it also, they found out, that there was a need in that village for fresh water because their pump had been closed down, they claim, by Iraqi soldiers. The U.S. forces in this case, the Marines, say they will work to get that pump turned back on.
And after it was all said and done, the commander said he was much better feeling about the security issue in this particular town as a result of meeting people face-to-face instead of looking at them through a gun site -- Leon.
HARRIS: Well, Marty, the first question that comes to mind then is whether or not it's -- I know it may be impossible to tell right now, but is it -- do you think that perhaps their minds actually have been changed or have been won over by this outreach by the Marines there?
SAVIDGE: Well, this is one village. This is one incident and let's not kid ourselves. The commander said, "Hey, even though I've been here, I've met these people, this village seems peaceful and fine, I would not be letting my boys walk down Main Street here." They take it with a certain grain of salt here. Force security is no. 1, paramount in their minds. And they also know that (a) if the paramilitary groups are not in that particular village, they're still active in the area and the Marines are still on their trail.
HARRIS: Yes, but -- so when the Marines leave there, Marty, do they still keep one eye cast backward then? SAVIDGE: They will. If this unit moves on, other units move in, they'll continue to police the area. The last thing you want is to move out and just have the paramilitary units come right back in and you're back to where you started again.
HARRIS: All right, understood. Thanks, Marty. You be well. Take care of yourself and be careful. We'll check back with you later on. Marty Savidge out there with the Marines.
Now, let's go to Bill Hemmer -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Leon. Checking in again on the telephone, Walt Rodgers with the 7th Calvary about 50 miles southwest of Baghdad.
Walt, what do you have now?
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Bill. As I look out along the northern horizon, I can see stretched in a huge arch, stretching for miles and miles, the vehicles of the 3rd Squadron 7th Calvary taking up positions for the night. Bradley fighting vehicles, main battle tanks, all across the horizon like a (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which is drawn.
As you point out, we're about 50 miles from the southern suburbs of Baghdad. However, there is going to be a bit of a military problem advancing because the Iraqis do have two very large divisions north of us and between Baghdad and the 7th Calvary's position. One of those is, of course, the Medina Division, the other is the Hammeradi Division. Both of those divisions are fully capable of putting up a major fight and so, at this point, the 7th Calvary appears to be nearly standing in that arch on the horizon.
It was the hope of the commanders that perhaps some of the Republican Guard units from Hammeradi or Medina would come out and fight. That has not worked so far. That is to say, they haven't taken the bait. One reason, they were bloodied very badly about five days ago. The Medina Division knew that the 7th Calvary had taken up a position northeast of Najaf. They sent out an armored convoy to try to intercept the 7th Calvary. When they were lured out of their bunkers near Baghdad, they were hammered from the air by B-52s and other Air Force planes. So, perhaps it's going to be more difficult to persuade these Republican Guard units to come out and fight now, having been very badly bloodied about five days ago. Indeed, one Army officer told me that he thinks that the Medina Division was probably degraded anywhere from 45 to 65 percent once they came out and tried to fight and got hammered by the Air Force --Bill.
HEMMER: Walter, more on that. We've been told for days now the Medina Division has been pounded from the air. Can you give us a sense, from your perspective, listening to the action, probably not seeing it so well but listening to it about how intense it's been?
RODGERS: Well, the Medina Division, as it sits close to Baghdad, I can't help with. But I can say that in cities like Al Samawa and Najaf and others going northward along the Euphrates in the general direction of Baghdad, wherever those units move into the city, the army moves in fairly quickly afterwards. It is not conducting noting sieges of the city to the best of my knowledge at this point. But once they come out, once the Republican Guard units come out and take up positions in the cities, which is what they seem to be doing, they stay there and they don't come out for a fight. That's the position the 7th Calvary finds itself in now.
We're close to another city south of Baghdad. However, the Iraqis are not taking the bait. They're not coming out for a fight. They're taking refuge in the city. There's been considerable hammering of the multiple launch rocket systems in the general direction of the Republican Guard units around one city, which we're not allowed to divulge. And we've seen the .155 millimeters coming over, but again they're sticking close to the city, not coming out, not taking on the 7th Calvary head on -- Bill.
HEMMER: Yes, Walter, a strategy question. I don't know if you can answer it or not but I'll give it a shot anyway. If the air assault is working in terms of softening up the Medina and the Hammeradi, as you described, does that mean the land campaign, the land assault, face-to-face, head-to-head, may not happen for some time?
RODGERS: It's a difficult question to answer not because of security restrictions but merely because of the front I'm on with the 7th Calvary is a very narrow focus. It's just one arrow on the map headed for Baghdad. I'm not sure what's happening at Nasiriyah and Basra.
When the southeastern front starts pushing towards Baghdad, then you might begin to see the ultimate siege. But it has to be a coordinated movement and so far, the other units are pretty far behind the Army in terms of making moves toward Baghdad. What we're seeing is a leapfrogging motion. The 7th Calvary goes out, takes ground, waits for reinforcements to come up, fill in the gaps and then, the Calvary goes forward again. It's working -- it's a very, very slope strategy worked out General Buffblant (ph) of the 3rd Infantry Division. It's working very well on the 7th Calvary's front, but beyond that, I can't comment, again, because I have only the view of the horizon in front of me and not the entire sweep of southern Iraq -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right. Walt, thanks. Walt Rodgers by way of telephone.
It's evening, Heidi and Leon, at this point in Iraq not only here in Kuwait but Iraq as well, which means the sun's going down and it's getting darker. But we'll check back in again with our embedded reporters as we go along in the day here.
Back to you both now at the CNN Center.
HARRIS: All right. Good deal, Bill, see you in just a second. We're going to take a break right now. But before we go, I just want to drop a couple of things on you. We've been able to bring you unprecedented coverage of the war in Iraq, but there's one image that you're not going to see, America's war dead. COLLINS: That's right, coming home to Dover Air Force Base. There's a controversy over the Pentagon's decision to keep scenes like this out of the public eye.
HARRIS: That's right. Also, an American soldier missing in action. The Pentagon says a wrong turn put her unit on the road to a deadly encounter with Iraqi forces. Coming up, we'll take a look at what happened to the 507th Maintenance Company.
COLLINS: And an inside look at the latest from frontlines. CNN correspondents are traveling with coalition troops throughout Iraq. We will have the very latest coming up in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Back here live in Kuwait City; I want to get you Baghdad quickly by telephone. The ICRC, the International Committee of the Red Cross, checking in again with us is Roland Huguenin-Benjamin. We have talked to him off and on for the past 10 days running.
And sir, good evening to you. Before we talk about the mission of the Red Cross in Baghdad, can you give us the status reports of bombings either right now or earlier today?
ROLAND HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN, INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS: Well, we spent Sunday with (UNINTELLIGIBLE), well, practically, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) found distant bombing. Only the early morning when we got up, there were series of very violent explosions that seemed to have been much closer even though we couldn't identify it at the time. It was reported later that it was a phone exchange that had been targeted.
HEMMER: What about the mission on the POWs? Has there been any positive contact right now with the Iraqis in terms of visiting Americans or Brits held captive?
HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN: Well, you know, that this is the -- typically, the action of ICRC that is kept confidential for the sake of the prisoners themselves. We do not comment unless -- until the visits actually have taken place. We are very hopeful that we will not be delayed. I think I mentioned it the other day, that there are all kinds of technicalities involved there in the sense that the prisoners must be taken to a safe place under the supervision of the officers not of rank-and-file soldiers.
And then there will be the question of how we can geographically move and gain access to them. We are in Baghdad. We have a team in the south. And then it remains to be organized for us or for our team in the south to actually perform the visits.
HEMMER: Can you clarify this then for us if you could? Have Iraqis been cooperative or can you gauge their level of cooperation of level at this point?
HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN: It's difficult to comment on these types of activities, but definitely, the contacts have been established right from the beginning of the conflict and assurances have been given that in case the would-be prisoners of war, ICRC would be entitled to visit them. You know that we have had a long history of visiting prisoners of war in this country, and in the neighboring countries over the past two conflicts, and we are definitely hopeful that there will be a positive outcome out with these contacts.
HEMMER: Yes, this is Sunday. You know that. It's past 6:00 in the evening in Baghdad. Is this visit days away or in your estimation, is this visit weeks away?
HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN: I really wouldn't be able to comment on that. I'm sorry.
HEMMER: OK. Let's talk about something else. What else is the Red Cross doing in terms of civilian casualties in the hospitals? Can you give us a fair read on what's happening on that front?
HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN: On that front, now that we are over a week into the military hospitals, it looks like we can more or less establish an average of -- a daily average of about 100 casualties in Baghdad proper. As to the rest of the country, of course, we are concerned that, of course, there are hostilities going on in lots of other locations now out of cities between Basra and Baghdad and the southern half of country.
Not being physically present there ourselves, we do hope that it will soon become possible to move about, if conditions permit for evaluation and assessment of what is going on in the other cities. Our primary concern is that casualties should be evacuated in proper time, and taken to hospitals and be given the appropriate treatment.
HEMMER: All right.
HUGUENIN-BENJAMIN: We will give our support for surgical equipment if needed. But it seems that the hospitals are organized in first line, second line hospitals. First line taking in casualties, second line taking care of other patients, and things seem to be under control so far. But nevertheless we would like to be able to access the situation in both cities.
HEMMER: All right. I'd like to get updates all the time from you on all three topics, what's happening in and around the city, certainly with the civilian population and the hospitals, and the POWs now being held by the Iraqis. Thanks again for checking in. Roland Huguenin-Benjamin with the International Committee of the Red Cross, working as he always has been now for weeks in the city of Baghdad.
Heidi, again, to you at the CNN Center.
COLLINS: Thanks, Bill. At this hour, we're watching the skies over Baghdad. We're told at least four large explosions rocked a residential area of the Iraqi capital earlier this morning. Smoke was seen from rising from apartment buildings in an area where some government officials are said to have lived.
On the northern front now, coalition aircraft carried out air strikes aimed at dislodging Iraqi forces near the town of Kalak. The town is near the line between Kurdish and Iraqi controlled areas. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in the area and reports at least five heavy air strikes overnight.
In the wake of a deadly suicide bombing against American troops, Iraq's neighbor, Iran, is warning the worst is yet to come. The Iranian foreign minister says suicide bombings like the one in Najaf will likely escalate as the war goes on.
The U.S. soldier suspected in a deadly grenade attack on fellow soldiers is back in America. Hassan Akbar was brought back to the U.S. Friday after being detained in Germany. He has not been charged but authorities say they believe Akbar is responsible for killing two servicemen and wounding 14 others in the attack at Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait.
The editor of "Newsday" says two of the paper's reporters may have been detained by the Iraqi government. The paper says it has not been able it get any information on the journalists from Baghdad. And three journalists from the Arab network al Harabi (ph) have been found. The network showed this video of the men being greeted by the Kuwaiti information minister. The journalists had been missing since March 22.
HARRIS: There are a number of journalists still missing in that area.
COLLINS: I know it.
HARRIS: All right. Let's go now to the Pentagon and get the latest developments from there. Patty Davis standing by.
Hello, Patty.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Leon. Well, U.S. military officials are bracing the American public for what they say will be some dangerous days ahead as U.S. troops move toward Baghdad and get set to engage a greater number of those elite Republican Guard units. Now, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says there will be no pauses and there will be no ceasefires.
Now, Rumsfeld is denying published reports that he insisted on a smaller number of ground troops in Iraq and the head of Joint Chiefs of Staff today, like the defense secretary, is defending the overall war plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHARIMAN: The start of the war was meant to achieve some strategic objectives, which it's done. We wanted to get as much tactical surprise as we could. And so, you've got to start when you think you have that surprise. That surprise brought us, by the way, some very important things. It brought us no environmental disaster because the oil fields in the south are secured for the Iraqi people. It brought us a 200-mile advance in about 36 hours. (END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: Now, U.S. military officials say there is no evidence of recent communication between Saddam Hussein and his son, Uday. And General Franks, the head of U.S. Central Command says there is no evidence that the Iraqi leader is still in control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: I don't know whether the leader of this regime is dead or alive. I don't know. Perhaps someone knows, but I don't know. I will say this -- I have not seen credible evidence over the last period of days, since we started this operation, that this regime is being controlled from the top, as we understand the top.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: Coalition troops have not yet turned up any evidence of weapons of mass destruction. Defense secretary Rumsfeld said that that is because troops have not yet made it to the suspected sites -- Leon.
HARRIS: All right. Thank you, Patty. We'll get back to you in just a bit.
We should hear some more from the plans there and the main war planners. The coalition military campaign this afternoon is going to be talked about quite a bit. Joint Chiefs Chairman General Richard Myers is going to be joining our Wolf Blitzer today on "LATE EDITION." That's right here on the network at noon Eastern, 9:00 pacific. Make sure you stay tuned for that.
Now, CNN's live coverage of Operation Iraqi Freedom continues after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Coalition troops exercising more caution in their operations in Iraq after a deadly suicide bombing yesterday. Authorities say the bomber, posing as a taxi driver, killed himself, and four American soldiers at a checkpoint near the city of Najaf. Iraq says there will be more suicide bombings to come, both in Iraq and abroad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAHA YASSIN RAMADAN, IRAQI VICE PRESIDENT (through translator): This is only the beginning, and you will hear more good news in the coming days. These bastards will be welcomed at the level and in the way they deserve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: I want to talk more about the suicide bombings as a war tactic and for that, we bring back CNN's analyst, Ken Pollack to talk about it.
Ken, welcome back to you. Apparently, there's been some sort of monetary award put out there, $35,000, we are told, awarded with the family of the man who blew himself up yesterday. Do you know based on history of these financial incentives work be it Iraq or, I guess, more accurately in the Middle East and the West Bank and Israel?
KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST/BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: You've really put your finger on it, Bill. The Iraqis are watching or have been watching very carefully other instances out there where they think the tactics of the week have worked against the strong. They understand that they can't win this war militarily. They've got to win it psychologically. And they went looking around the world for instances that can help them. One of the ones that they seemed to have looked at is Hezbollah in Lebanon and as you've suggested, Hezbollah -- what we found over the years has had a very good track record of recruiting suicide bombers in exactly this fashion. They find poor young boys whose families are destitute, who have no real job prospects. And they promise enormous rewards for their families if they agree to conduct suicide attacks. It's been the secret of Hezbollah's success. It's been the way that they've recruited these Hamas, Palestinian-Islamic jihad have also been able to recruit suicide bombers in this way and clearly, the Iraqis are doing the same thing.
HEMMER: Yes, do you think the U.S. military has been trained in any way on how to deal with this? Or is this a process that, learning right now day-to-day now that we're about 24 hours past the first one?
POLLACK: I think it's some of both, Bill. On the one hand, U.S. forces are very concerned about force protection. It's something that the U.S. military has become increasingly concerned about over the last 10 or 15 years. They take a lot of precautions. They do do a lot of training, but of course, every situation is different. And I think it's pretty clear that U.S. forces went into Iraq and they really weren't expecting to fight this kind of a fight. And as a result, they are doing a lot of on-the-job training right now, taking skills that they practiced and learned stateside before they ever went to war and trying to adapt them to these unique conditions that they're finding in Iraq.
HEMMER: And I know, Ken, we've talked about this yesterday, though, how do you engage a civilian population, wearing a military uniform, trying to win the -- quote/unquote -- "hearts and minds of the Iraqi people?" That's got to be a pretty tough balance.
POLLACK: Absolutely.
HEMMER: In your estimation, how do you strike it, if possible?
POLLACK: You're absolutely right, Bill. This is a very tough balance. And I think that what you're seeing is different units out there, finding different ways to do it. Some of the reports that have been on CNN this morning, I think, get right at that the issue. Marty Savidge's report about the Marines who went into that village and they sat down with the headmen of village and developed a rapport there to try to convince the people of the village that the United States was on their side, was going to protect them, and to enlist their support.
You know Mao Tse Tung once said that "the guerrillas are the fish that swim in the sea of the people." What we found over the years is that the best way to defeat guerrilla forces is to get the sea, the people themselves, to turn against the fish. If you can do, the guerrilla threat evaporates quickly. So what Marines are doing in Marty Savidge's report, what the British are doing down in Basra in Christiane Amanpour's earlier report, that's critical to winning this fight.
HEMMER: Well, onto Ansar Al-Islam. Let's talk about this group, said to be a terrorist group in northeast Iraq. You heard Tommy Franks say there was massive destruction done to that camp up there. And obviously, the operation continues in and around that camp to find information. Did they find information there that may tell them more about the Iraqi leadership in Baghdad or is that a separate issue?
POLLACK: Well, I just don't think we know at this point in time, Bill. The Bush administration has been claiming that there are very close ties between the -- between Saddam Hussein's regime and Ansar Al-Islam. There are others who are suggesting that maybe the ties are a little bit more tenuous but there are more maybe tacit understandings, but not close cooperation. I think that only time will tell. We'll see what the evidence -- what the evidence found in the camp actually portrays.
But I also think that we need to be a little bit circumspect. Just as we found in Afghanistan, going after the terrorist camps is important. It's good to deny that net base of operations, but it doesn't necessarily solve the problem. And many of the Ansar al-Islam personnel may have fled long before the village was taken. They may be still on the loose and I don't think that U.S. forces should assume that any problems with Ansar al-Islam have necessarily been resolved at this point in time.
HEMMER: Ken, thanks. Ken Pollack, author of "Threatening Storm," former CIA analyst, whose job at the time was to examine the Iraqi military. Thanks, Ken, always great to talk to you and get your insights.
POLLACK: Good to talk to you too.
HEMMER: I appreciate it. We'll see you a bit later. All right, let's get a break here. More images from Operation Iraqi Freedom. The war in Iraq continues now, day 11. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: The Pentagon says that Iraq is holding seven prisoners of war, and among them five members of the Army's 507th Maintenance Company. Those soldiers were deployed from Fort Bliss, Texas just a few weeks ago and now, their friends and loved ones are searching for answers. Our Ed Lavandera reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): February 17, this was deployment day for the 507th Maintenance Company of Fort Bliss, Texas. Soldiers checked their equipment and posed for family pictures.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right then.
LAVANDERA: Private First Class Lori Paistewa shared some last minute thoughts.
PFC. LORI PAISTEWA, 507TH MAINTENANCE COMPANY: It's very important to me, like, knowing that my family is going to be taken care of, just knowing they'll be OK while I'm out there. You know I don't have to worry about nothing while I'm out there.
LAVANDERA: Almost six weeks since these pictures were taken. Paistewa is now one of eight soldiers from this unit listed as missing in action. Two are confirmed dead and five others are being held as prisoners of war. This, after their convoy took what's been called a wrong turn, as they approached the southern Iraqi city of Nasiriyah last Sunday. But what went wrong? U.S. representative, Silvester Reyes is from El Paso and also sits on the Armed Services Committee.
REP. SILVESTER REYES (D) TEXAS: There's no doubt in my mind that when this maintenance group that was lightly armed, you know, with side arms and light weapons, came up against two Iraqi tanks, heavy automatic weapons, they were -- they were clearly outgunned.
LAVANDERA: The battles around Nasiriyah have been fierce, some of the most intense fighting this war has seen. According to several sources, a six-truck convoy was helping resupply and support frontline troops. They were supposed to be operating in a secured area.
REYES: Because the supply lines are over 200 miles long and there are pockets of Iraqi military all along this route, we can't afford to assume that it's a secure area.
LAVANDERA: The Pentagon says the convoy took a wrong turn. When the truck started crossing a bridge, what's described as an irregular Iraqi force, launched in ambush. Shoshana Johnson is a cook in the 507th Maintenance Company. She's now a POW. Her father never imagined she'd ever be close to the frontlines.
CLAUDE JOHNSON, FATHER OF POW: When you're coming up behind, there's supposed to be people that set checkpoints and so on and so forth along the way. What happened? Did they miss a checkpoint? They made a wrong turn. Were they supposed to turn? What happened? Where's the break down?
LAVANDERA: Most of what happened in the ensuing fight is still unknown. Marines from the 1st Expeditionary Force moved in and rescued one wounded soldier and the bodies of two dead soldiers. What happened to some of the other soldiers appeared on Arab television. Representative Reyes says the images will eventually prove the Iraqis have committed war crimes. REYES: It's pretty disgusting, and I think when people -- the people that have seen it, know exactly how what an atrocity has been committed against our soldiers. And the violations that have been perpetrated by the regime are going to be very evident.
LAVANDERA: The Pentagon is still investigating how and why part of the 507th Maintenance Company drove into what it calls an ambush. Military officials aren't talking about the specifics yet especially since the lives of five POWs and eight soldiers missing in action are still very much on the line.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Fort Bliss, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: All right. Let's take a closer look now at how the military goes out and finds the troops that are either missing in action or being held by enemy forces. And for that, we're joined by our military analyst, retired major General Don Shepperd, who I should say, also, has written extensively about all of this as well.
Now, what exactly happens when you first learn or are notified or at least identified the fact that there are some missing soldiers?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET), U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, we got a new status. In this war, Leon, it's called Whereabouts Unknown. We're carrying them as Whereabouts Unknown for 48 hours and then declaring them in missing in action. Right now, there are seven. This is a well-known process in every war. The families are immediately notified and then every effort is made to find out all information available on the people during the conflict and after the conflict.
We are still right now uncovering information and remains from the World War II and Korea and of course, Vietnam. Over 2,000 people still missing in Vietnam. At some point, they are declared dead, but the efforts go on. The joint task force, full accounting, is operating in Hawaii right now on the Vietnam. As the Gulf War -- all of our people from the Gulf War were accounted for, but one pilot, Scott Spiker (ph) has -- because of a reexamination of the case, his status has been changed to missing in action.
Iran-Iraq War, approximately -- well, their last of the prisoners have been exchanged, but 95,000 prisoners have been exchanged and there's still about 5,000 unaccounted for in that Iran-Iraq War between the two sides that we simply don't have any idea about.
HARRIS: Procedure-wise, is there a difference then when that status becomes officially missing in action? What happens when they become -- when they go past that 48-hour period?
SHEPPERD: Well, when they become missing in action, basically it's a status that is kicked off and certain benefits kick into the families. Of course, when they are then declared killed in action, either because they find remains or they find evidence that they've been killed in action or a certain amount of time has past -- and those judgments are made in a very formal way -- then the benefits to the families change. So the important thing is that the families are notified. They are taken care of and the status is monitored to the best benefit of the families involved. It's a very careful process.
HARRIS: Yes. What -- are families in any way -- I know we talked earlier before about how the troops themselves are actually trained for the prospect of possibly being POW. Is there any thinking at all about training the families to prepare for that possibility?
SHEPPERD: I don't think there's any way to train the families ahead of time. I think basically what you try to do is keep in touch with the family. The immediate commanders, the people in involved, try to keep in touch with the families and let them know every piece of information that they can. But there isn't any way to train for this. Families whose remains are not returned are essentially haunted and wondering forever. And I've got several friends going through that, still from the Vietnam War.
HARRIS: Really? Sorry to hear that. Let me ask you this, as a general here, now that we've seen how this embedding process has been working with reporters actually being there, it seems like if I'm the family member of someone who's over there serving right now, it might be kind of scary to watch the news because the reports that we're getting now are so instantaneous that we may be getting reports ahead of the Pentagon actually calling me to inform me about something like that that happened to a family member.
SHEPPERD: Indeed. We're going to have to learn how to do this embedding. We're at the early stages and you're exactly right. Immediate information gets to families even before official notification can take place because the official notification is somewhat slow for a very good reason. You don't want to go out there and alarm a family until you get the right information. It takes a while to do that, so they may get information or they may see things that alarm them. And that's part of the embedding.
HARRIS: Let me ask you one last question. It just jumped in my mind. Technically, we've got so many different, new technological advances that we're using right now. Is there anything that -- do soldiers or Marines or sailors, whatever, do they have any special equipment they carry that helps you find them or help you identify their status?
SHEPPERD: No, they don't. We try to keep track of people, but of course, in a battle, sometimes people fall and locals bury them. And you go out back after the war and try to find that. But one big factor that helps us is the DNA, the new process of DNA from family -- gathered from family members that can help us identify remains many, many years after the war. And it's the ugly part of war. That's what goes, Leon.
HARRIS: All right. Well, here's hoping that it is a very short part of this one.
SHEPPERD: Indeed.
HARRIS: Major General Don Shepperd, thank as always.
Bill, over to you in Kuwait City.
HEMMER: All right, Leon. Thanks. Coming up in the 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time hour here on CNN, we want to take you once again to the frontlines of the fighting as the U.S. pushes three fronts on the road to Baghdad. Also, Iraqi officials threatening more suicide attacks on coalition troops as a grim, new battlefield tactic takes the lives of four members of the U.S. Army on Saturday. And the faces of pain, Christiane Amanpour reports on why the military is not being welcomed with opened arms by some civilians in Iraq. Her story and more when we continue after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: No anti-war protests are expected in the small town of Hinesville, Georgia, a community that's deeply affected by what's going on in Iraq. It is home to the 3rd Infantry Division, which has already suffered casualties. CNN's Brian Cabell reports on the mood of those on the home front.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There weren't tens of thousands demonstrating here in Hinesville. There weren't massive arrests. Know that demonstrators here totaled here maybe 500. But look at them, almost all soldiers' wives and children with a very personal interest in what's happening in Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have loved ones over there that are going through things that we can't even imagine. And it's just -- it's heart wrenching.
CABELL: Hinesville is home to Fort Stewart, the 3rd Infantry Division based here. But virtually all of the division, about 17,000 soldiers strong, is now fighting its way towards Baghdad. Already at least six soldiers from Fort Stewart have been killed in Iraq. Life in Hinesville has been somber lately, not much to do but watch TV, wait for good news, pray you don't get bad news and at least on this day face away your fears loudly with others who share your predicaments.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Right now, we want to show you the live pictures that we're getting from Baghdad. This coming from a camera. Its' being run by the Ala-Rabiha (ph) Network. And as you can see here, there is a fully engaged fire there in downtown Baghdad. Smoke in the air. Presumably, this is evidence of another air strike there in Baghdad. We, of course, do not know exactly what part of the town this is since we don't have any people there on the ground to talk to. And we do not know exactly if there are other -- if this is a part of a wave of bombs being dropped there or whatever. But right now, as you can see, it's near 7:00 p.m. local time there in downtown Baghdad there. There is some heavy activity under way right now. We'll keep our eye on that and we'll show you whatever we get as soon as it does come in to us.
COLLINS: Let's go ahead and bring in Bill Hemmer, who is in Kuwait.
Bill, are you -- I'm sure you're getting a glimpse of these pictures.
HEMMER: Yes, listen, Heidi and Leon, often times -- it's 7:00 local time in Baghdad -- and often times when the sun goes down, we have seen it pick up in the activity, the air strikes over the capital city. This coincides with the pattern we've seen in the past. And it also coincides with what the Red Cross official was reporting about an hour ago, about the explosions he is seeing himself.
Earlier on Sunday, rather, we do know a period of time where explosions did occur yet again there, and late last night, around 2:00 a.m., said to be large explosions around the information ministry. We're told that there was so much damage done to that building, 11 stories tall, that the Iraqis have now moved that center of operations about a mile and a half away to the Palestine Hotel. Incidentally, that's the hotel where a number of international journalists are now being housed in Baghdad.
Tom Mintier also chipped in earlier today from CENTCOM down in Qatar. He says now the U.S. believes -- they believe that earlier they had 19 oil trenches dug and ready for burning on the outskirts of Baghdad, but now, they believe that number has been more than doubled to 50 oil trenches. Not quite sure how many might be burning right now. About 50 are lit, but nonetheless, the coalition forces and the surveillance they do over the city of Baghdad indicates that 50 have been constructed right now, which is a heavy increase from the previous number.
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Threatening Civilians in Basra>
