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CNN Sunday Morning
War in Iraq: 7th Cav Rolls On
Aired March 30, 2003 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Not quite sure how many might be burning right now, if all 50 are lit. But nonetheless, the coalition forces in the surveillance they do over the city of Baghdad, indicates that 50 have been constructed right now which is a heavy increase from the previous number.
We'll continue to watch this picture, and as we get more, Heidi and Leon, certainly, we'll bring it to you. But the pictures coming in, yet again in Baghdad, where it is now nightfall in the Iraqi capital.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Bill, thank you very much.
HEMMER: All right, Heidi, quickly going to get you back to Baghdad to show you the picture we're seeing.
It is nightfall there. We know that, and we also know some explosions have been heard in and around the Iraqi capital. Again, 7:00 local time in Baghdad. Not quite sure what the targets are here, but overnight last night into the early Sunday morning hours, the Ministry of Information hit quite hard. Some describe it as a tomahawk cruise missile dropping through 11 stories in that building, detonating inside which has forced the Iraqis to move that operation down the street.
No word on casualties as a result of that. And no word throughout the day as to the targets that were aimed or targeted on the ground in Baghdad. But we do know the ripple of explosions and attacks have continued periodically over the past 24 hours in Baghdad.
Let's move away from there and let you know what General Tommy Franks said earlier today, his briefing at Central Command down in Qatar. He says, despite these reports of a pause in the operations, that there is no pause under way in terms of the military activity on behalf of the coalition forces in Iraq. Donald Rumsfeld, again, making the tour of talk shows back in the U.S. reiterated that. He says, too, there is no pause as well.
Walt Rodgers from his location with the 7th cavalry, about 50 miles southwest of Baghdad filed this report a short time ago, as to his observations of what's happening with the U.S. army there. Here's Walt.
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. Army's 3rd Squadron 7th Cavalry has been rolling forward all morning. And by our calculations, the 7th Cavalry is now within 50 miles of the southern suburbs of Baghdad, 50 miles as the crow flies.
Now, there remains substantial Iraqi military units between the 7th Cavalry and southern suburbs of Baghdad. We know the Medina division is there. The Hammurabi division is up there somewhere. In back of me having said that it appears that the 7th Cavalry is as active as it was about a week ago to punch forward, try to lure the Iraqi detachments, the Iraqi units, out of their entrenchments around Baghdad.
So far, however, the Iraqi regiment, the Iraqi divisions are not taking the bait. Having said that, however, this tactic worked very well about five or six days ago, when the 7th Cavalry rolled forward northeast of Najaf. At that point, elements of the Medina division came rolling out of Baghdad, and they came to intercept the 7th Cavalry before they ever got there.
However, what we saw was huge elements of the U.S. Air Force bombing the heck out of them, and we understand that in recent days, as a result of Air Force bombing, the Medina division has been degraded or attritted, as the army says. The attrition is now down 45 percent, perhaps even 65 percent so again the 7th cavalry probing north, ever probing cautiously towards Baghdad, the aim being to draw the Iraqis out into the open. This time, however, they're not taking the bait.
HEMMER: Walt Rodgers, embedded with the 7th Cavalry, southwest of Baghdad.
Also on Sunday, media reports circulating now, that the Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld overruled a request from General Tommy Franks for more troops in the theater and more troops for the war in Iraq. Rumsfeld today on talk shows again back in the U.S. denying; He says that anything the coalition has asked for, they have gotten, and he says that is proof can be found in the reports that have been filed throughout this entire conflict.
Now, Tommy Franks was in Qatar, Donald Rumsfeld is back in D.C., and so, too, is Patty Davis, working the angles there at the Pentagon. Good afternoon.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Bill.
U.S. military officials fanned out on those Sunday talk shows here in Washington, D.C., to make the case that indeed this U.S. war with Iraq is on plan.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says there will be no cease- fires, and warned the American public that some dangerous days lie ahead. Coalition forces some 49 miles out of Baghdad. The Republican elite units, Republican Guard still to be faced.
Now, Rumsfeld himself facing some criticism from unnamed military officials in a lot of the newspapers here in the United States that he tried to micromanage the number of troops going into Iraq, pushing for a sharply reduced number. Rumsfeld denies that charge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The number of forces is a judgment that was made as a result of General Franks developing his plan, working it with the joint chiefs of staff, presenting it to me and the National Security Council, and the president. It has been approved by everyone who's had a look at it. It's been described as an excellent plan. I'd be delighted to take credit for it but it wouldn't be fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: U.S. troops have uncovered bloody uniforms in a hospital in Nasariyah, believed to be those of some ambushed army maintenance unit personnel. One of those uniforms, the Pentagon says, appears to be a woman's uniform, and a woman, of course, as you know, is known to be one of the prisoners of war taken by the Iraqis. The United States saying that it plans to do forensic tests on those uniforms to make a determination about who they belong to. Bill?
HEMMER: Patty, thanks. Patty Davis at the Pentagon.
Again, quickly back to Baghdad. A live picture. Abu Dhabi television has this camera, here, this perspective in downtown Baghdad. Tracer fire, some sort of anti-aircraft fire going up a few moments ago. So we'll continue to watch this and monitor it for you. Sunday evening in the Iraqi capital.
South of Baghdad, somewhere in south central Iraq is Karl Penhaul. He's embedded with the Army's 5th Corps. Karl's back with us again by phone.
Karl, what's happening tonight? All right, I don't believe we have Karl. Let's try it one more time. Karl Penhaul, embedded with the Army's 5th Corps, by telephone. Karl, are you with us?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes, the troops here in the military airfields where I am, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on a high state of alert since yesterday's suicide car bombing.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE)
U.S. military spokesmen have told the 3rd Infantry Division (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some have died. And because of that, soldiers here have been on heightened alert.
As you see, from some of the images we have obtained, two of the Apache attack helicopters based at this airfield were launched in the hours of the morning to check out -- to check out a white pick-up truck hanging near the perimeter. The apache helicopters pinned that truck down until ground troops could arrive. The occupants, Iraqis, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) they were forced to kneel in the sand. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) handcuffed and on to the ground.
We are told by U.S. military commanders here that a search was carried out of the vehicle. No gun, no weapons nor explosives were found. They commanders suspect that these may have been members of a scout party for one of the Iraqi Fedayeen units, these are the small, guerrilla-style units that are trying to operate behind the U.S. front lines.
HEMMER: All right, Karl, some of that signal was breaking up. A bit difficult to hear in parts. But Karl Penhaul is embedded with the 5th Army Corps trying to pick up on the latest movements there, with nightfall there.
Obviously a big concern, yet again, on behalf of the U.S. military, with civilian and civilian vehicles. All this following the attack from yesterday. A taxicab driver blowing himself up and his vehicle, and taking the lives of four U.S. soldiers along with him in the town of Najaf in south central Iraq. Karl, thanks.
We're watching the skies this Baghdad, yet again. It is nightfall as we have pointed out. Tracer fire seen a short time ago. There's been a ripple of explosions periodically throughout the day on Sunday and all this following the early morning hours of Sunday.
Well before the sun came up, intense bombing at certain locations in downtown Baghdad including the Ministry of Information, and other sites on the eastern edge of Baghdad. We will continue to monitor the very latest with our embedded reporters.
Here's Martin Savidge, I believe. Do we have Marty? Yes, we do. Marty Savidge is back with us in southern Iraq. Marty, I think you're by way of telephone right now checking in again this hour. We talked to you last hour. What's happening now? Good evening.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good evening to you, Bill.
The reason we check in by telephone now, versus what you saw earlier in the day is of course out here, we did very much use light discipline. The Marines are concerned about any light being seen, so with broadcasting capability, it doesn't work too well without lights. The night scope doesn't work too well without illumination, and we haven't got much of that, either, since there are clouds overhead. Hence, the telephone, for security purposes.
It was a day when the marines were involved once more with searching for Fedayeen paramilitary forces that have been harassing U.S. military positions as well as hitting upon supply lines vital to reinforcing those military positions. And it was a day where the Marines used a dual approach, a clenched fist as well as an open hand.
I was aboard one of the armored personnel carriers as they swept in on a small village nearby here. It was thought that, perhaps, some of these paramilitary units were using outlying villages and towns as a place to hide, as a place to rest during the daytime and then come out and fight during the nighttime hours. So, sweeping of these villages is very important, but it is also a tense time.
We went in just before the sun came up. A bunch of marines were going in on one side of the town on foot, and then you had the force of the ADC sweeping in on the other side. The hope was that you would startle people, at least those that were not the right sort of people, racing out of the village and they could be captured right away.
That wasn't the case. In fact, once we got into town there, the marines don't go kicking down doors, they don't go pointing rifles, but they go looking for the village leaders. And they managed to find an elderly man who was in charge of this small village. And they sat down and talked to him. And they find by talking to people in these villages, number one, they introduce themselves, there is the open hand of friendship. And they seem to get a lot more information that way.
And they found that a number of paramilitary people and units have been active in the area a couple days previous but now were gone. However, what the villagers were very concerned about was getting the water pump turned on. It seems that Iraqi soldiers, a number of days ago, had shut them off, and now the children were becoming sick from drinking out of the cisterns and the stagnant canals, which was the only source of water they had. So the Marines realized that they had gone from a search and destroy mission to a humanitarian mission and quickly seized the opportunity to help the villagers get to work to try to get that pump turned back on.
In the end, the commander of the whole operation, perhaps a little nervous at the beginning, was eating lunch with the villagers by midday, feeling much more confident about the security in that village, feeling better about his overall mission, realizing that sometimes it is the hand of friendship that can work just as well as the aiming side of a gun. Bill?
HEMMER: Marty, hang with me a second. I have a question for you. But first we want to bring our viewers up to date. Getting word now, that two separate fires now are burning in Baghdad. Where, we don't know exactly but al Jazeera, the Arab language network, says one fire takes place at least in a neighborhood in the outskirts of Baghdad. Again, we'll watch this for you. The reports about anti- aircraft fire going up earlier, indications possibly of more strikes on the Iraqi capital.
While we watch this, Marty, got a question for you about the satellite phone that's being used by a number of embedded journalists. There were questions yesterday and questions again today as to whether or not the Iraqis have picked up on this signal, and because they can pick up on this signal, they can find people like you and the Marines and the U.S. Army. Have you come across this story and been told how to handle it? Are there any precautions given because the coalition forces may believe the Iraqis are zeroing in on that?
SAVIDGE: Well, we were asked by the commander of the 1st Battalion 7th Marines, I believe it was yesterday, to turn in our telephones. We had a number of them. They work quite well in this part of the world and relied upon heavily by journalists. We of course actually had been notified by CNN of this issue the day before and had we had immediately shut those phones off at that time. And then when we turned them in to the commander, he said, well, we have some information that perhaps Iraqi forces are tracking with it.
We don't want to make ourselves a target, obviously, and in that process we would not want to make the soldiers, or Marines in this case, that we're embedded with targets. So we're waiting to see if this is a temporary measure or a long-term measure. We have other phones that are said not to be compromised, which is, of course, the same phone that I'm using to speak with you now. But how -- you know, how much threat this truly was, we don't know. It's clear that any sort of broadcast device with the right equipment can be tracked, and we are told that the Iraqis do have direction finding equipment.
HEMMER: All right, interesting. Marty Savidge, embedded with the U.S. Marines. Marty, thanks. Enjoy your evening as best you can and stay safe as always.
An Arab journalist with us last hour, here, Heidi and Leon, also indicated when he went into Basra at the end of last week once he started his cell phone, his satellite phone in the town, mortar fire came out of nowhere immediately as that phone was turned on. So it is possible, again, as the U.S. military contends, that some of those satellite images and some of that satellite signals can be picked up on behalf of the Iraqis.
Back now to Leon and Heidi again at the CNN center.
COLLINS: Bill, you really have to be careful, obviously.
We want to just reiterate quickly what you're seeing on your screen now. These pictures from al Arabiya. There are at least two fires that we know of burning in the city of Baghdad right now. So as usual, we will monitor these for you and certainly come back to them if we have any more information. For now we are going to Harris Whitbeck. He's in southern Iraq with the forward air base there. Harris, what can you tell us where you are?
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Heidi. We're at an Iraqi air base taken by the coalition several days ago and it is being quickly prepared for use as a base for search and rescue missions. Behind me a group of members of the air force who participate in these search and rescue missions relaxing around a fire this hour trying to keep warm and basically resting after a long day's work. So far they've only been on standby.
No major search and rescue missions have been called for but another important aspect of activity on this base has to do with fighter planes that are using it as, basically, a great big filling station. They are now able to land here, refuel and get back to the combat zone. And air force spokespeople tell us this is a very important aspect of the overall strategy here, because it lets the fighter planes to be over the combat zone for longer amounts of time and also allows for quicker medical evacuations if necessary.
There is a forward Seal Hospital at this location. There's also and camp for POWs and we saw some of those POWs here today. We're not able to speak to them, of course, but did see several dozen of them being detained and guarded by coalition soldiers.
So far all has been relatively quiet here. Last night in the distance you could hear explosions and see the smoke and glow of fire from the battlefield that gives you an indication of how close we are to that battle. Back to you.
COLLINS: Harris, just a quick question for you. Have you had any conversations with the pilots, and wondering if it's giving them a little bit of a break when they come down to actually fuel on the ground, instead of all of the air-to-air refueling that they've been doing.
WHITBECK: You know, usually the time that they're on the ground is so small, the amount of time is so small that, you know, you don't have much time to speak to them at all. Basically those planes come down and refuel and get right back up in the air.
COLLINS: All right. Very good. Harris Whitbeck in southern Iraq. Thank you so much.
And we want to let you know what is coming up next. We are, of course, keeping our eye on the skies over Baghdad and we'll keep you up to date on the latest developments in the war on Iraq. We were showing pictures of at least two fires that we know of, that are going on in Iraq, and you see those pictures there.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. Also coming up, we have a suicide attack in Israel. Kelly Wallace is live from the scene there. We'll check in with her.
Also, we'll take a closer look at how U.S. troops may deal with suicide as a weapon of war in Iraq. Excuse me. CNN special coverage of the war in Iraq continues after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Once again, back here in Kuwait City, want to take our viewers live to Baghdad. We're watching these images yet again. At least two different fires burning somewhere in Baghdad. Arab network al Jazeera indicating at least one is burning in a neighborhood in the outskirts of the town. Major General Don Shepperd is back with us.
Don, you can see these images. Can you make much from them at this point?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Bill, I really can't. I can tell you it looks to me like kind of a standard house fire, if you will. It doesn't look like a petroleum fire. Doesn't look like a trench that the Iraqis have set on fire. A good guess is that it was caused by some of the bombing. Although, as you know, when you start a fire, there are gas mains in a city in this type of thing, so it could be a result of all sorts of things, even could be something natural that happens in the city. But it looks like it's probably a house fire caused by bombing.
HEMMER: Don, pick up on this point too. There are allegations going back and forth between the Iraqis and the coalition, essentially, central command in Qatar, as to whether or not these missiles that have landed in the Baghdad neighborhoods are from the coalition pilots, or coalition cruise missiles, or if they're surface- to-air missiles fired by the Iraqis that misfunction, essentially, and fall back onto the homes and on to the neighborhoods.
Curious to know, based on what you know about the Iraqi military, how capable is their SA system, the surface-to-air system?
SHEPPERD: Their surface to air systems are very capable in themselves, but they have been degraded by the air attacks, Bill. Also, the observers on the ground have made interesting observations. They have not observed deep holes like those caused by most of the bombs they've seen. Also, most of these missiles are designed so they don't arm until they're very close to the targets, so there is some suspicion these may not be errant United States weapons or, of course, bombs, and none of it would be intentional, Bill.
HEMMER: Yes. And, Don, pick up on that point just a bit further here. When you talk about the precision of a tomahawk cruise missile and the amount of technology that we've all been led to believe is very accurate, why would it be that central command has now gone days without a full explanation for what happened there? Why wouldn't the information be, for lack of a better phrase, in real-time?
SHEPPERD: I don't think they know, Bill. Until you get on scene, you have to pick up bomb fragments and measure things. Until we actually are able to go into downtown Baghdad and diagnose, and I predict that will be done, by the way, you are simply guessing. You can't depend upon these reports.
Again, none of it was done intentionally. We've had not only errant bombs in the past, but missiles and bombs that were shot by anti-aircraft fire. We had one go in to the al Rasheed hotel during a previous strike several years ago. So until you get on the ground, Bill, you're simply guessing.
HEMMER: General, hang with me a second. Rula Amin has been watching these images as well. She is in Jordan reporting on Arab reaction throughout this conflict. Also watching the pictures tonight.
Rula, what is your take on this?
RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, we are watching this bombing, and we see the big fireball that you probably are seeing on your screen, as well.
We've also been hearing reports, initial reports from reporters on the scene, who say most of the bombing in the last 20 minutes has been in an area, a neighborhood in the center of Baghdad, called Karradadeta. Means Karrada inside. It's a big neighborhood, a shopping neighborhood, as well as a residential neighborhood. Very popular, people go there for so many different reasons, whether to shop for vegetables, whether to shop for clothing and some people actually live there. Bill?
HEMMER: OK, Rula, thanks. As you're watching that I'm going back to Major General Don Shepperd.
The report from Tom Mintier, about 50 oil wells being dug now on the outskirts of Baghdad. Up from the previous number, that was said to be 19. What do you make of this right now, in terms of an Iraqi strategy?
SHEPPERD: Well, Bill, apparently the Iraqis think that it will do them some good. What they, I believe, do not understand, is it will make the skies black over Baghdad, but we have sensors that can see through these type of things.
When you develop a sensor, you look at the visible spectrum, you look at the infrared spectrum, and it's a wide spectrum. So if you can't see through one part, you can pick a different sensor and look through it. So this is not something that will hamper allied and coalition operations. You will be able to keep the eyeball from seeing it but not necessarily prevent any type of air attacks, Bill.
HEMMER: All right, back to Rula Amin. Rula, a different topic as we look at this image from Baghdad, not fully knowing what's happening there.
What are you hearing today? We talked about 24 hours ago. What are you hearing on the different voices in the Arab world about what some are now saying is the strong resistance of the Iraqis headed up by Saddam Hussein, and your reaction in the Arab world is what?
AMIN: Well, Bill, I've been keeping a close watch on the Arab televisions that have correspondents there in Baghdad and in different parts of Iraq. Most of the reporters there on the scene in Baghdad have been reporting heavy bombardments, continuous raids. They say that it is in different parts of town.
They've also been showing footage of wounded people, killed, and footage of what they say are U.S. tanks abandoned by U.S. soldiers, and show the fighting that the Iraqis have been putting up. And it seems that people on the Arab street are focused on this aspect of the conflict these days. They are very surprised by the level of resistance that the Iraqis have been putting up, and it seems they are very impressed. They didn't think after 12 years of U.N. sanctions Iraq actually would be able to stand up against the U.S. powerful military machine, and that's why they're focused on this aspect of the conflict. Bill?
HEMMER: All right, Rula, thanks. Rula Amin, in Jordan, appreciate that update.
As we continue to watch the images, let's bring General Shepperd back in here.
On a different topic now, what are you to make about all those reports of a four to six-day pause? I know we talked about this yesterday, but it came up again today. General Franks shot it down. Secretary Rumsfeld has shot it down. But it appears, anyway, based on the reporting we're getting from the embedded journalists and reporters within the theater of operations in Iraq that something has slowed. Is this tactical? Is it operational? How do you classify it? Is there a difference between the two? SHEPPERD: Bill, I think it's both tactical and operational. It makes very much sense to me, that as the 3rd and 7th move forward, that you would stop for awhile and let the rest of the infantry division catch up. And then you would be concerned about the 101st on your left flank and the Marines on your right flank. So it's apparent to me that you wouldn't continually move forward.
But General Franks made very clear in his briefing that this did not mean there was a pause all around the theater of operations there. There will be continuing military operations by air and by ground at times and places of his choosing. And he made it very clear this was not a time when they were going to stop and pause for a week or two to replenish before they move forward.
I take it that there's ongoing operations in the north, the south, and particularly the west right now, with special operations that are continuing. And when General Franks is ready to move, he'll push on towards the Medina division and up north toward Baghdad.
HEMMER: What about the Iraqi leadership? And I'm going to quote him right now; General Franks says, "I have not seen credible evidence to show this regime is being controlled from the top." Clearly an implication about Saddam Hussein. What are you to make of this, based upon what he is seeing in the battlefield in Iraq?
SHEPPERD: Very interesting and very carefully crafted words, there. That was in response to a question of is Saddam dead or alive. He did not even use Saddam's name in attempting to not personalize this, but he basically said we have seen no indication that the military is under control from the top.
That would be good news for those trying to affect the chain of command and leadership targets and command and control, but lots more to develop before we know. Clearly he's trying to keep pressure on that command and control mechanism all across the country, Bill.
HEMMER: Yes. And the one thing we hear any time there is a briefing, whether it's General Franks, or anyone else at Centcom, or the Pentagon back in Washington is the emphasis on flexibility, the emphasis on adaptability.
In the past 48 hours, in the past 24 hours, how have you seen that flexibility demonstrated in Iraq?
SHEPPERD: Well, I think you've seen it with the insertion of the 173rd Airborne Brigade and the continual operation of Special Forces in the western part of the country. You haven't seen continued rapid movement operations like we saw in the very beginning of the 3rd to the 7th Cav moving forward. But General Franks' point on that was that he actually started the war because of his flexibility and because he saw an opportunity to protect the southern oil fields.
The original plan, evidently, was to start a large air campaign at the same time he started the ground campaign. In this case, it was actually reversed, and the ground campaign started to seize those southern airfields to protect them -- Bill. HEMMER: Don, thanks. Major General Don Shepperd watching things with us at the CNN center. Thanks for taking us through it, Don, appreciate it as always.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 30, 2003 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Not quite sure how many might be burning right now, if all 50 are lit. But nonetheless, the coalition forces in the surveillance they do over the city of Baghdad, indicates that 50 have been constructed right now which is a heavy increase from the previous number.
We'll continue to watch this picture, and as we get more, Heidi and Leon, certainly, we'll bring it to you. But the pictures coming in, yet again in Baghdad, where it is now nightfall in the Iraqi capital.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Bill, thank you very much.
HEMMER: All right, Heidi, quickly going to get you back to Baghdad to show you the picture we're seeing.
It is nightfall there. We know that, and we also know some explosions have been heard in and around the Iraqi capital. Again, 7:00 local time in Baghdad. Not quite sure what the targets are here, but overnight last night into the early Sunday morning hours, the Ministry of Information hit quite hard. Some describe it as a tomahawk cruise missile dropping through 11 stories in that building, detonating inside which has forced the Iraqis to move that operation down the street.
No word on casualties as a result of that. And no word throughout the day as to the targets that were aimed or targeted on the ground in Baghdad. But we do know the ripple of explosions and attacks have continued periodically over the past 24 hours in Baghdad.
Let's move away from there and let you know what General Tommy Franks said earlier today, his briefing at Central Command down in Qatar. He says, despite these reports of a pause in the operations, that there is no pause under way in terms of the military activity on behalf of the coalition forces in Iraq. Donald Rumsfeld, again, making the tour of talk shows back in the U.S. reiterated that. He says, too, there is no pause as well.
Walt Rodgers from his location with the 7th cavalry, about 50 miles southwest of Baghdad filed this report a short time ago, as to his observations of what's happening with the U.S. army there. Here's Walt.
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. Army's 3rd Squadron 7th Cavalry has been rolling forward all morning. And by our calculations, the 7th Cavalry is now within 50 miles of the southern suburbs of Baghdad, 50 miles as the crow flies.
Now, there remains substantial Iraqi military units between the 7th Cavalry and southern suburbs of Baghdad. We know the Medina division is there. The Hammurabi division is up there somewhere. In back of me having said that it appears that the 7th Cavalry is as active as it was about a week ago to punch forward, try to lure the Iraqi detachments, the Iraqi units, out of their entrenchments around Baghdad.
So far, however, the Iraqi regiment, the Iraqi divisions are not taking the bait. Having said that, however, this tactic worked very well about five or six days ago, when the 7th Cavalry rolled forward northeast of Najaf. At that point, elements of the Medina division came rolling out of Baghdad, and they came to intercept the 7th Cavalry before they ever got there.
However, what we saw was huge elements of the U.S. Air Force bombing the heck out of them, and we understand that in recent days, as a result of Air Force bombing, the Medina division has been degraded or attritted, as the army says. The attrition is now down 45 percent, perhaps even 65 percent so again the 7th cavalry probing north, ever probing cautiously towards Baghdad, the aim being to draw the Iraqis out into the open. This time, however, they're not taking the bait.
HEMMER: Walt Rodgers, embedded with the 7th Cavalry, southwest of Baghdad.
Also on Sunday, media reports circulating now, that the Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld overruled a request from General Tommy Franks for more troops in the theater and more troops for the war in Iraq. Rumsfeld today on talk shows again back in the U.S. denying; He says that anything the coalition has asked for, they have gotten, and he says that is proof can be found in the reports that have been filed throughout this entire conflict.
Now, Tommy Franks was in Qatar, Donald Rumsfeld is back in D.C., and so, too, is Patty Davis, working the angles there at the Pentagon. Good afternoon.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Bill.
U.S. military officials fanned out on those Sunday talk shows here in Washington, D.C., to make the case that indeed this U.S. war with Iraq is on plan.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says there will be no cease- fires, and warned the American public that some dangerous days lie ahead. Coalition forces some 49 miles out of Baghdad. The Republican elite units, Republican Guard still to be faced.
Now, Rumsfeld himself facing some criticism from unnamed military officials in a lot of the newspapers here in the United States that he tried to micromanage the number of troops going into Iraq, pushing for a sharply reduced number. Rumsfeld denies that charge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The number of forces is a judgment that was made as a result of General Franks developing his plan, working it with the joint chiefs of staff, presenting it to me and the National Security Council, and the president. It has been approved by everyone who's had a look at it. It's been described as an excellent plan. I'd be delighted to take credit for it but it wouldn't be fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: U.S. troops have uncovered bloody uniforms in a hospital in Nasariyah, believed to be those of some ambushed army maintenance unit personnel. One of those uniforms, the Pentagon says, appears to be a woman's uniform, and a woman, of course, as you know, is known to be one of the prisoners of war taken by the Iraqis. The United States saying that it plans to do forensic tests on those uniforms to make a determination about who they belong to. Bill?
HEMMER: Patty, thanks. Patty Davis at the Pentagon.
Again, quickly back to Baghdad. A live picture. Abu Dhabi television has this camera, here, this perspective in downtown Baghdad. Tracer fire, some sort of anti-aircraft fire going up a few moments ago. So we'll continue to watch this and monitor it for you. Sunday evening in the Iraqi capital.
South of Baghdad, somewhere in south central Iraq is Karl Penhaul. He's embedded with the Army's 5th Corps. Karl's back with us again by phone.
Karl, what's happening tonight? All right, I don't believe we have Karl. Let's try it one more time. Karl Penhaul, embedded with the Army's 5th Corps, by telephone. Karl, are you with us?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes, the troops here in the military airfields where I am, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on a high state of alert since yesterday's suicide car bombing.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE)
U.S. military spokesmen have told the 3rd Infantry Division (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some have died. And because of that, soldiers here have been on heightened alert.
As you see, from some of the images we have obtained, two of the Apache attack helicopters based at this airfield were launched in the hours of the morning to check out -- to check out a white pick-up truck hanging near the perimeter. The apache helicopters pinned that truck down until ground troops could arrive. The occupants, Iraqis, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) they were forced to kneel in the sand. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) handcuffed and on to the ground.
We are told by U.S. military commanders here that a search was carried out of the vehicle. No gun, no weapons nor explosives were found. They commanders suspect that these may have been members of a scout party for one of the Iraqi Fedayeen units, these are the small, guerrilla-style units that are trying to operate behind the U.S. front lines.
HEMMER: All right, Karl, some of that signal was breaking up. A bit difficult to hear in parts. But Karl Penhaul is embedded with the 5th Army Corps trying to pick up on the latest movements there, with nightfall there.
Obviously a big concern, yet again, on behalf of the U.S. military, with civilian and civilian vehicles. All this following the attack from yesterday. A taxicab driver blowing himself up and his vehicle, and taking the lives of four U.S. soldiers along with him in the town of Najaf in south central Iraq. Karl, thanks.
We're watching the skies this Baghdad, yet again. It is nightfall as we have pointed out. Tracer fire seen a short time ago. There's been a ripple of explosions periodically throughout the day on Sunday and all this following the early morning hours of Sunday.
Well before the sun came up, intense bombing at certain locations in downtown Baghdad including the Ministry of Information, and other sites on the eastern edge of Baghdad. We will continue to monitor the very latest with our embedded reporters.
Here's Martin Savidge, I believe. Do we have Marty? Yes, we do. Marty Savidge is back with us in southern Iraq. Marty, I think you're by way of telephone right now checking in again this hour. We talked to you last hour. What's happening now? Good evening.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good evening to you, Bill.
The reason we check in by telephone now, versus what you saw earlier in the day is of course out here, we did very much use light discipline. The Marines are concerned about any light being seen, so with broadcasting capability, it doesn't work too well without lights. The night scope doesn't work too well without illumination, and we haven't got much of that, either, since there are clouds overhead. Hence, the telephone, for security purposes.
It was a day when the marines were involved once more with searching for Fedayeen paramilitary forces that have been harassing U.S. military positions as well as hitting upon supply lines vital to reinforcing those military positions. And it was a day where the Marines used a dual approach, a clenched fist as well as an open hand.
I was aboard one of the armored personnel carriers as they swept in on a small village nearby here. It was thought that, perhaps, some of these paramilitary units were using outlying villages and towns as a place to hide, as a place to rest during the daytime and then come out and fight during the nighttime hours. So, sweeping of these villages is very important, but it is also a tense time.
We went in just before the sun came up. A bunch of marines were going in on one side of the town on foot, and then you had the force of the ADC sweeping in on the other side. The hope was that you would startle people, at least those that were not the right sort of people, racing out of the village and they could be captured right away.
That wasn't the case. In fact, once we got into town there, the marines don't go kicking down doors, they don't go pointing rifles, but they go looking for the village leaders. And they managed to find an elderly man who was in charge of this small village. And they sat down and talked to him. And they find by talking to people in these villages, number one, they introduce themselves, there is the open hand of friendship. And they seem to get a lot more information that way.
And they found that a number of paramilitary people and units have been active in the area a couple days previous but now were gone. However, what the villagers were very concerned about was getting the water pump turned on. It seems that Iraqi soldiers, a number of days ago, had shut them off, and now the children were becoming sick from drinking out of the cisterns and the stagnant canals, which was the only source of water they had. So the Marines realized that they had gone from a search and destroy mission to a humanitarian mission and quickly seized the opportunity to help the villagers get to work to try to get that pump turned back on.
In the end, the commander of the whole operation, perhaps a little nervous at the beginning, was eating lunch with the villagers by midday, feeling much more confident about the security in that village, feeling better about his overall mission, realizing that sometimes it is the hand of friendship that can work just as well as the aiming side of a gun. Bill?
HEMMER: Marty, hang with me a second. I have a question for you. But first we want to bring our viewers up to date. Getting word now, that two separate fires now are burning in Baghdad. Where, we don't know exactly but al Jazeera, the Arab language network, says one fire takes place at least in a neighborhood in the outskirts of Baghdad. Again, we'll watch this for you. The reports about anti- aircraft fire going up earlier, indications possibly of more strikes on the Iraqi capital.
While we watch this, Marty, got a question for you about the satellite phone that's being used by a number of embedded journalists. There were questions yesterday and questions again today as to whether or not the Iraqis have picked up on this signal, and because they can pick up on this signal, they can find people like you and the Marines and the U.S. Army. Have you come across this story and been told how to handle it? Are there any precautions given because the coalition forces may believe the Iraqis are zeroing in on that?
SAVIDGE: Well, we were asked by the commander of the 1st Battalion 7th Marines, I believe it was yesterday, to turn in our telephones. We had a number of them. They work quite well in this part of the world and relied upon heavily by journalists. We of course actually had been notified by CNN of this issue the day before and had we had immediately shut those phones off at that time. And then when we turned them in to the commander, he said, well, we have some information that perhaps Iraqi forces are tracking with it.
We don't want to make ourselves a target, obviously, and in that process we would not want to make the soldiers, or Marines in this case, that we're embedded with targets. So we're waiting to see if this is a temporary measure or a long-term measure. We have other phones that are said not to be compromised, which is, of course, the same phone that I'm using to speak with you now. But how -- you know, how much threat this truly was, we don't know. It's clear that any sort of broadcast device with the right equipment can be tracked, and we are told that the Iraqis do have direction finding equipment.
HEMMER: All right, interesting. Marty Savidge, embedded with the U.S. Marines. Marty, thanks. Enjoy your evening as best you can and stay safe as always.
An Arab journalist with us last hour, here, Heidi and Leon, also indicated when he went into Basra at the end of last week once he started his cell phone, his satellite phone in the town, mortar fire came out of nowhere immediately as that phone was turned on. So it is possible, again, as the U.S. military contends, that some of those satellite images and some of that satellite signals can be picked up on behalf of the Iraqis.
Back now to Leon and Heidi again at the CNN center.
COLLINS: Bill, you really have to be careful, obviously.
We want to just reiterate quickly what you're seeing on your screen now. These pictures from al Arabiya. There are at least two fires that we know of burning in the city of Baghdad right now. So as usual, we will monitor these for you and certainly come back to them if we have any more information. For now we are going to Harris Whitbeck. He's in southern Iraq with the forward air base there. Harris, what can you tell us where you are?
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Heidi. We're at an Iraqi air base taken by the coalition several days ago and it is being quickly prepared for use as a base for search and rescue missions. Behind me a group of members of the air force who participate in these search and rescue missions relaxing around a fire this hour trying to keep warm and basically resting after a long day's work. So far they've only been on standby.
No major search and rescue missions have been called for but another important aspect of activity on this base has to do with fighter planes that are using it as, basically, a great big filling station. They are now able to land here, refuel and get back to the combat zone. And air force spokespeople tell us this is a very important aspect of the overall strategy here, because it lets the fighter planes to be over the combat zone for longer amounts of time and also allows for quicker medical evacuations if necessary.
There is a forward Seal Hospital at this location. There's also and camp for POWs and we saw some of those POWs here today. We're not able to speak to them, of course, but did see several dozen of them being detained and guarded by coalition soldiers.
So far all has been relatively quiet here. Last night in the distance you could hear explosions and see the smoke and glow of fire from the battlefield that gives you an indication of how close we are to that battle. Back to you.
COLLINS: Harris, just a quick question for you. Have you had any conversations with the pilots, and wondering if it's giving them a little bit of a break when they come down to actually fuel on the ground, instead of all of the air-to-air refueling that they've been doing.
WHITBECK: You know, usually the time that they're on the ground is so small, the amount of time is so small that, you know, you don't have much time to speak to them at all. Basically those planes come down and refuel and get right back up in the air.
COLLINS: All right. Very good. Harris Whitbeck in southern Iraq. Thank you so much.
And we want to let you know what is coming up next. We are, of course, keeping our eye on the skies over Baghdad and we'll keep you up to date on the latest developments in the war on Iraq. We were showing pictures of at least two fires that we know of, that are going on in Iraq, and you see those pictures there.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. Also coming up, we have a suicide attack in Israel. Kelly Wallace is live from the scene there. We'll check in with her.
Also, we'll take a closer look at how U.S. troops may deal with suicide as a weapon of war in Iraq. Excuse me. CNN special coverage of the war in Iraq continues after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Once again, back here in Kuwait City, want to take our viewers live to Baghdad. We're watching these images yet again. At least two different fires burning somewhere in Baghdad. Arab network al Jazeera indicating at least one is burning in a neighborhood in the outskirts of the town. Major General Don Shepperd is back with us.
Don, you can see these images. Can you make much from them at this point?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Bill, I really can't. I can tell you it looks to me like kind of a standard house fire, if you will. It doesn't look like a petroleum fire. Doesn't look like a trench that the Iraqis have set on fire. A good guess is that it was caused by some of the bombing. Although, as you know, when you start a fire, there are gas mains in a city in this type of thing, so it could be a result of all sorts of things, even could be something natural that happens in the city. But it looks like it's probably a house fire caused by bombing.
HEMMER: Don, pick up on this point too. There are allegations going back and forth between the Iraqis and the coalition, essentially, central command in Qatar, as to whether or not these missiles that have landed in the Baghdad neighborhoods are from the coalition pilots, or coalition cruise missiles, or if they're surface- to-air missiles fired by the Iraqis that misfunction, essentially, and fall back onto the homes and on to the neighborhoods.
Curious to know, based on what you know about the Iraqi military, how capable is their SA system, the surface-to-air system?
SHEPPERD: Their surface to air systems are very capable in themselves, but they have been degraded by the air attacks, Bill. Also, the observers on the ground have made interesting observations. They have not observed deep holes like those caused by most of the bombs they've seen. Also, most of these missiles are designed so they don't arm until they're very close to the targets, so there is some suspicion these may not be errant United States weapons or, of course, bombs, and none of it would be intentional, Bill.
HEMMER: Yes. And, Don, pick up on that point just a bit further here. When you talk about the precision of a tomahawk cruise missile and the amount of technology that we've all been led to believe is very accurate, why would it be that central command has now gone days without a full explanation for what happened there? Why wouldn't the information be, for lack of a better phrase, in real-time?
SHEPPERD: I don't think they know, Bill. Until you get on scene, you have to pick up bomb fragments and measure things. Until we actually are able to go into downtown Baghdad and diagnose, and I predict that will be done, by the way, you are simply guessing. You can't depend upon these reports.
Again, none of it was done intentionally. We've had not only errant bombs in the past, but missiles and bombs that were shot by anti-aircraft fire. We had one go in to the al Rasheed hotel during a previous strike several years ago. So until you get on the ground, Bill, you're simply guessing.
HEMMER: General, hang with me a second. Rula Amin has been watching these images as well. She is in Jordan reporting on Arab reaction throughout this conflict. Also watching the pictures tonight.
Rula, what is your take on this?
RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, we are watching this bombing, and we see the big fireball that you probably are seeing on your screen, as well.
We've also been hearing reports, initial reports from reporters on the scene, who say most of the bombing in the last 20 minutes has been in an area, a neighborhood in the center of Baghdad, called Karradadeta. Means Karrada inside. It's a big neighborhood, a shopping neighborhood, as well as a residential neighborhood. Very popular, people go there for so many different reasons, whether to shop for vegetables, whether to shop for clothing and some people actually live there. Bill?
HEMMER: OK, Rula, thanks. As you're watching that I'm going back to Major General Don Shepperd.
The report from Tom Mintier, about 50 oil wells being dug now on the outskirts of Baghdad. Up from the previous number, that was said to be 19. What do you make of this right now, in terms of an Iraqi strategy?
SHEPPERD: Well, Bill, apparently the Iraqis think that it will do them some good. What they, I believe, do not understand, is it will make the skies black over Baghdad, but we have sensors that can see through these type of things.
When you develop a sensor, you look at the visible spectrum, you look at the infrared spectrum, and it's a wide spectrum. So if you can't see through one part, you can pick a different sensor and look through it. So this is not something that will hamper allied and coalition operations. You will be able to keep the eyeball from seeing it but not necessarily prevent any type of air attacks, Bill.
HEMMER: All right, back to Rula Amin. Rula, a different topic as we look at this image from Baghdad, not fully knowing what's happening there.
What are you hearing today? We talked about 24 hours ago. What are you hearing on the different voices in the Arab world about what some are now saying is the strong resistance of the Iraqis headed up by Saddam Hussein, and your reaction in the Arab world is what?
AMIN: Well, Bill, I've been keeping a close watch on the Arab televisions that have correspondents there in Baghdad and in different parts of Iraq. Most of the reporters there on the scene in Baghdad have been reporting heavy bombardments, continuous raids. They say that it is in different parts of town.
They've also been showing footage of wounded people, killed, and footage of what they say are U.S. tanks abandoned by U.S. soldiers, and show the fighting that the Iraqis have been putting up. And it seems that people on the Arab street are focused on this aspect of the conflict these days. They are very surprised by the level of resistance that the Iraqis have been putting up, and it seems they are very impressed. They didn't think after 12 years of U.N. sanctions Iraq actually would be able to stand up against the U.S. powerful military machine, and that's why they're focused on this aspect of the conflict. Bill?
HEMMER: All right, Rula, thanks. Rula Amin, in Jordan, appreciate that update.
As we continue to watch the images, let's bring General Shepperd back in here.
On a different topic now, what are you to make about all those reports of a four to six-day pause? I know we talked about this yesterday, but it came up again today. General Franks shot it down. Secretary Rumsfeld has shot it down. But it appears, anyway, based on the reporting we're getting from the embedded journalists and reporters within the theater of operations in Iraq that something has slowed. Is this tactical? Is it operational? How do you classify it? Is there a difference between the two? SHEPPERD: Bill, I think it's both tactical and operational. It makes very much sense to me, that as the 3rd and 7th move forward, that you would stop for awhile and let the rest of the infantry division catch up. And then you would be concerned about the 101st on your left flank and the Marines on your right flank. So it's apparent to me that you wouldn't continually move forward.
But General Franks made very clear in his briefing that this did not mean there was a pause all around the theater of operations there. There will be continuing military operations by air and by ground at times and places of his choosing. And he made it very clear this was not a time when they were going to stop and pause for a week or two to replenish before they move forward.
I take it that there's ongoing operations in the north, the south, and particularly the west right now, with special operations that are continuing. And when General Franks is ready to move, he'll push on towards the Medina division and up north toward Baghdad.
HEMMER: What about the Iraqi leadership? And I'm going to quote him right now; General Franks says, "I have not seen credible evidence to show this regime is being controlled from the top." Clearly an implication about Saddam Hussein. What are you to make of this, based upon what he is seeing in the battlefield in Iraq?
SHEPPERD: Very interesting and very carefully crafted words, there. That was in response to a question of is Saddam dead or alive. He did not even use Saddam's name in attempting to not personalize this, but he basically said we have seen no indication that the military is under control from the top.
That would be good news for those trying to affect the chain of command and leadership targets and command and control, but lots more to develop before we know. Clearly he's trying to keep pressure on that command and control mechanism all across the country, Bill.
HEMMER: Yes. And the one thing we hear any time there is a briefing, whether it's General Franks, or anyone else at Centcom, or the Pentagon back in Washington is the emphasis on flexibility, the emphasis on adaptability.
In the past 48 hours, in the past 24 hours, how have you seen that flexibility demonstrated in Iraq?
SHEPPERD: Well, I think you've seen it with the insertion of the 173rd Airborne Brigade and the continual operation of Special Forces in the western part of the country. You haven't seen continued rapid movement operations like we saw in the very beginning of the 3rd to the 7th Cav moving forward. But General Franks' point on that was that he actually started the war because of his flexibility and because he saw an opportunity to protect the southern oil fields.
The original plan, evidently, was to start a large air campaign at the same time he started the ground campaign. In this case, it was actually reversed, and the ground campaign started to seize those southern airfields to protect them -- Bill. HEMMER: Don, thanks. Major General Don Shepperd watching things with us at the CNN center. Thanks for taking us through it, Don, appreciate it as always.
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