Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Charles Lipson
Aired May 11, 2003 - 09:53 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Want to talk briefly about what to look for in the road map to peace in the Middle East.
We're joined by Charles Lipson; he's a professor of international politics at the University of Chicago. Professor Lipson, thanks very much for being with us. I know you were supposed to speak earlier. Appreciate you waiting for that press conference.
You probably heard the press conference. Interested in talking to you about what you heard and, in particular, what has to happen now, in your opinion, in order for there to be progress in the road map?
CHARLES LIPSON, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: Well, my sense is that there wasn't much news out of the news conference. That this is a particularly propitious moment, just as it was after the first Gulf War. You'll remember that there was the Madrid conference and that led to the Oslo process, all of which ultimately broke down. So now is the time that the United States is in an unusually favorable position and is trying to get the sides to move forward.
I think that the main news out of the past month is really the marginalization of Arafat, and so the question is whether Abbas will have the willingness and the ability to begin to crack down on his side. And I think that Sharon has already indicated that he's willing to make sacrifices, which I assume means that they'll begin to dismantle some of the outlying settlements, but they'll each be, to some extent, waiting on the other to move first. That's where the United States can play a very useful role as guarantor.
COOPER: And how much has the U.S. power changed in the region because of the war with Iraq?
LIPSON: Immensely. Immensely. The United States has a power in the world that is really, in a sense, unprecedented since ancient Rome. We're the greatest economy in the world; we're not just the greatest military power in the world. There's almost nobody who can even coordinate with our military, given the sophistication, the lethality, the speed, and the mobility and, of course, the technological sophistication.
COOPER: Does that impress anyone in -- I mean, on the Palestinian side, in particular? I mean, how does that motivate them to listen to what the U.S. is saying? LIPSON: Well, I think what it really means, for example, is that the Palestinian terrorists were getting a fair amount of money out of Iraq. That's all cut off. Just as, after the first Gulf War, the money that was coming in to Palestinians in the form of remittances and so forth from the Gulf oil states all stopped. That puts tremendous pressure.
I think the biggest pressure, though, is not the -- just the increased role of the United States, but the recognition -- both sides are tired, both the Israelis and the Palestinians are tired, and I think the Palestinians have recognized that the strategy of terrorist bombings has really led nowhere.
COOPER: At least some Palestinians, it seems.
LIPSON: Well, that's right. You're absolutely right, Anderson. There is an internal debate.
COOPER: I'm sorry, we are just going to have to leave it there. I'm really sorry, professor, we're simply out of time. Very much appreciate you joining us, professor. Hope to talk to you another time.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 11, 2003 - 09:53 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Want to talk briefly about what to look for in the road map to peace in the Middle East.
We're joined by Charles Lipson; he's a professor of international politics at the University of Chicago. Professor Lipson, thanks very much for being with us. I know you were supposed to speak earlier. Appreciate you waiting for that press conference.
You probably heard the press conference. Interested in talking to you about what you heard and, in particular, what has to happen now, in your opinion, in order for there to be progress in the road map?
CHARLES LIPSON, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: Well, my sense is that there wasn't much news out of the news conference. That this is a particularly propitious moment, just as it was after the first Gulf War. You'll remember that there was the Madrid conference and that led to the Oslo process, all of which ultimately broke down. So now is the time that the United States is in an unusually favorable position and is trying to get the sides to move forward.
I think that the main news out of the past month is really the marginalization of Arafat, and so the question is whether Abbas will have the willingness and the ability to begin to crack down on his side. And I think that Sharon has already indicated that he's willing to make sacrifices, which I assume means that they'll begin to dismantle some of the outlying settlements, but they'll each be, to some extent, waiting on the other to move first. That's where the United States can play a very useful role as guarantor.
COOPER: And how much has the U.S. power changed in the region because of the war with Iraq?
LIPSON: Immensely. Immensely. The United States has a power in the world that is really, in a sense, unprecedented since ancient Rome. We're the greatest economy in the world; we're not just the greatest military power in the world. There's almost nobody who can even coordinate with our military, given the sophistication, the lethality, the speed, and the mobility and, of course, the technological sophistication.
COOPER: Does that impress anyone in -- I mean, on the Palestinian side, in particular? I mean, how does that motivate them to listen to what the U.S. is saying? LIPSON: Well, I think what it really means, for example, is that the Palestinian terrorists were getting a fair amount of money out of Iraq. That's all cut off. Just as, after the first Gulf War, the money that was coming in to Palestinians in the form of remittances and so forth from the Gulf oil states all stopped. That puts tremendous pressure.
I think the biggest pressure, though, is not the -- just the increased role of the United States, but the recognition -- both sides are tired, both the Israelis and the Palestinians are tired, and I think the Palestinians have recognized that the strategy of terrorist bombings has really led nowhere.
COOPER: At least some Palestinians, it seems.
LIPSON: Well, that's right. You're absolutely right, Anderson. There is an internal debate.
COOPER: I'm sorry, we are just going to have to leave it there. I'm really sorry, professor, we're simply out of time. Very much appreciate you joining us, professor. Hope to talk to you another time.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
