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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Bernard Haykel

Aired May 18, 2003 - 10:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: In the past week, we've seen a deadly string of terrorist attacks, most of them suicide bombings, from Casablanca east to Riyadh. The Saudi bombings in particular are linked by U.S. officials to al Qaeda.
Should we expect more of the same? And what's being done to stop it?

For some answers now we turn to our guest professor Bernard Haykel of New York University. Professor Haykel, thanks for being here this morning.

BERNARD HAYKEL, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

COLLINS: I'd like to begin by asking you, we have certainly heard that there is definitely an al Qaeda tie -- at least that's what we're hearing from U.S. officials -- but in fact that maybe these orders came directly from Osama bin Laden. What's your thinking on that?

HAYKEL: It is probably very likely in the Saudi case that that did happen because Saudi Arabia is the central country that bin Laden is trying to capture. He is attacking the regime there and wants to take over and has very extensive links in Saudi Arabia with former teachers and friends and university students and friends he had at university, as well as family connections.

COLLINS: And didn't al Qaeda say that they were actually going to stage a spectacular attack? Is this something that the world should have expected?

HAYKEL: Yes, absolutely. And in fact, I think by hitting Saudi Arabia in the way he did, he's trying to achieve at least four different things. And it's also a return on an investment in that he has been trying to radicalize Muslim youths and Muslims in general since at least September 11, and he's seeing this return now with this attack.

He's achieved several things, I think. One is this radicalization that I've just mentioned.

The second is that he's managed to alienate the U.S. from the Saudi government, at least in their public speak.

Third, he has managed to force a lot of expatriates, western expatriates, into leaving the country. And I think finally he is going to wait now and see what reaction the population of Saudi Arabia will have to these attacks, because the one thing he doesn't want to have happen is to alienate the Saudis -- the ordinary Saudis from his campaign.

COLLINS: We also know that one of the targets was this big American company called Vinnel, which is responsible for training and safety of the Saudi royal families, also has close ties to the Bush administration.

HAYKEL: That's right.

COLLINS: Do you think -- and this is a question we brought up a little bit earlier -- that Americans should also take this as a hit, so to speak, against America?

HAYKEL: Absolutely. I mean he's trying to hit -- bin Laden in his targeting strategy is trying to send messages to the Saudi royal family, as well as to the United States, that he's well aware of the key company, the key security operations that keep this alliance strong and he's trying to hit that.

He's also trying to show another thing, by the way, with the simultaneous attacks, both within Saudis and also in Morocco, which is that he has the capacity to send, you know, 10, 15 men to their deaths at will and that he has this capacity again and again and again.

COLLINS: So Profess Haykel, what is al Qaeda's ultimate goal, if there is one?

HAYKEL: I think the ultimate goal is to radicalize the Muslim world into accepting their ideology, but very specifically it is to topple the Saudi regime and to be able to capture a country like Saudi Arabia.

COLLINS: Why?

HAYKEL: Because they feel if they manage to capture a country like Saudi Arabia they would have a base from which to then fight a much broader war that would involve the whole world, but also put a stranglehold on western economies as well as unite...

COLLINS: Because of the oil?

HAYKEL: They feel -- it's not just the oil. I mean, it's the holiest place for them and they feel that the regime there is out to undermine Islam. They feel that they're engaged in a battle for the very existence of Islam.

COLLINS: Professor Bernard Haykel of New York University. Thanks so much for your time. I do appreciate it.

HAYKEL: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired May 18, 2003 - 10:19   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: In the past week, we've seen a deadly string of terrorist attacks, most of them suicide bombings, from Casablanca east to Riyadh. The Saudi bombings in particular are linked by U.S. officials to al Qaeda.
Should we expect more of the same? And what's being done to stop it?

For some answers now we turn to our guest professor Bernard Haykel of New York University. Professor Haykel, thanks for being here this morning.

BERNARD HAYKEL, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

COLLINS: I'd like to begin by asking you, we have certainly heard that there is definitely an al Qaeda tie -- at least that's what we're hearing from U.S. officials -- but in fact that maybe these orders came directly from Osama bin Laden. What's your thinking on that?

HAYKEL: It is probably very likely in the Saudi case that that did happen because Saudi Arabia is the central country that bin Laden is trying to capture. He is attacking the regime there and wants to take over and has very extensive links in Saudi Arabia with former teachers and friends and university students and friends he had at university, as well as family connections.

COLLINS: And didn't al Qaeda say that they were actually going to stage a spectacular attack? Is this something that the world should have expected?

HAYKEL: Yes, absolutely. And in fact, I think by hitting Saudi Arabia in the way he did, he's trying to achieve at least four different things. And it's also a return on an investment in that he has been trying to radicalize Muslim youths and Muslims in general since at least September 11, and he's seeing this return now with this attack.

He's achieved several things, I think. One is this radicalization that I've just mentioned.

The second is that he's managed to alienate the U.S. from the Saudi government, at least in their public speak.

Third, he has managed to force a lot of expatriates, western expatriates, into leaving the country. And I think finally he is going to wait now and see what reaction the population of Saudi Arabia will have to these attacks, because the one thing he doesn't want to have happen is to alienate the Saudis -- the ordinary Saudis from his campaign.

COLLINS: We also know that one of the targets was this big American company called Vinnel, which is responsible for training and safety of the Saudi royal families, also has close ties to the Bush administration.

HAYKEL: That's right.

COLLINS: Do you think -- and this is a question we brought up a little bit earlier -- that Americans should also take this as a hit, so to speak, against America?

HAYKEL: Absolutely. I mean he's trying to hit -- bin Laden in his targeting strategy is trying to send messages to the Saudi royal family, as well as to the United States, that he's well aware of the key company, the key security operations that keep this alliance strong and he's trying to hit that.

He's also trying to show another thing, by the way, with the simultaneous attacks, both within Saudis and also in Morocco, which is that he has the capacity to send, you know, 10, 15 men to their deaths at will and that he has this capacity again and again and again.

COLLINS: So Profess Haykel, what is al Qaeda's ultimate goal, if there is one?

HAYKEL: I think the ultimate goal is to radicalize the Muslim world into accepting their ideology, but very specifically it is to topple the Saudi regime and to be able to capture a country like Saudi Arabia.

COLLINS: Why?

HAYKEL: Because they feel if they manage to capture a country like Saudi Arabia they would have a base from which to then fight a much broader war that would involve the whole world, but also put a stranglehold on western economies as well as unite...

COLLINS: Because of the oil?

HAYKEL: They feel -- it's not just the oil. I mean, it's the holiest place for them and they feel that the regime there is out to undermine Islam. They feel that they're engaged in a battle for the very existence of Islam.

COLLINS: Professor Bernard Haykel of New York University. Thanks so much for your time. I do appreciate it.

HAYKEL: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com