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CNN Sunday Morning

Legal Briefs

Aired May 18, 2003 - 08:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Turning now to our legal segment. You might say the party's over for Illinois teenagers. Our CNN contributor Michael Smerconish, trial attorney and talk show host is live in Philadelphia. And in Cleveland, civil rights attorney and law professor Avery Friedman.
Gentlemen, thanks for being with us.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Good morning.

COOPER: Avery, we want to start off with you. Let's start off by talking about this alleged hazing incident, this video we've all seen. Horrific story. Now you have the school getting involved. Where do you see this thing going in the courts?

FRIEDMAN: Oh, I see this thing going a situation where we have a powder puff football game and we're going to see powder puff justice. You got to understand, Anderson we're dealing with a situation of an affluent white suburb. So even though we have statutory batteries, if this were the ghetto, believe me the blacks would be going to jail. Here, I think, the kids are going to walk a way with a slap on the wrist, that's the end of it.

COOPER: You say that not only because of racial bias, I suppose you're saying that but also because of access to lawyers, high-priced attorneys.

FRIEDMAN: Well, that's exactly right. In fact, the DA in Cooke County says, well, you know there's a problem here, there's an issue because everybody has lawyers. Well, of course! There are issues of self-incrimination, so you can count on the fact that nobody's talking. And it's very difficult for law enforcement to get the evidence that it needs.

COOPER: Michael, do you think that's true that if these were African-American kids it would be a completely different story?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, TRIAL ATTORNEY: This case has absolutely nothing at all to do with race. What this case has much to do about is good video that makes for great television. And that's why everybody in America has probably seen this videotape 10 or 15 times already. But if the faces were black or Asian or pink or green, we'd still be watching it an equal number of times and law enforcement's reaction would be exactly the same.

The only question in my mind is whether the school has any accountability here. And to that it's the old Howard Baker question, what did the school know and when did they know it?

COOPER: What could the school have done though, Avery, in your opinion? Could they have done anything? And should they be able to take action against the students or should this simply be a matter for the courts?

FRIEDMAN: Well, under the Constitution, Anderson, unless the school has jurisdiction, there actually is nothing they can do. In fact, interestingly enough, the school put itself in jeopardy by expelling the kids and now there are a flurry of lawsuits because the school exceeded its jurisdiction. I think what the school should have done is recognized that if this sort of behavior goes on they could have done something in advance. But because it was off campus I think they're out of luck. I think it's a police matter, I don't think it's a school matter.

COOPER: We all know these kinds of things happen in threes, true or not but it certainly always seems too. But we have these two other cases; not of hazing, but in the Chicago area of, some might say, parties gone out of control. But in one case -- in Wheaton case, you have a family who leaves for vacation, a friend of the family, the kid gave access to the home, basically turns it into an animal House. They have parties there, there's blood, there's condoms, there's everything, they're driving around in their house, they're stealing their property.

Michael Smerconish, what is going on?

SMERCONISH: We had a similar case two years ago in the suburbs of Philadelphia, Anderson. I think the lesson here is the same lesson that it has often been. Kids and booze are a very dangerous combination. I hate to tell you, I remember being in high school and watching someone pull out an electric drill when someone's parents were not home and attempt to gain access to a keg. That's when I knew that it was time to go. It's been going on a long time. But never to this degree and it's terrible, but you can't leave your kids unsupervised.

COOPER: But you know I actually interviewed the parents and one of the kids involved in this incident. Although it's a family and they basically said, look, this is not just a harmless prank. This is not a bunch of kids partying while their parents are away this is burglary. And yet the law is basically treating it as a trespassing in a way.

Avery, where do you think legally this thing is going to end up?

FRIEDMAN: Again, Michael disagrees but I think he's wrong. We're dealing with rich, white kids. This is west of Chicago instead of north, even a more affluent suburbs. These kids are going to get powder puff justice. They're going to walk, there's not going to be a problem.

And you know what? The thing I do agree with is that unless the parents are held accountable, because they're the ones in many instances providing the alcohol. That's really the genesis of this. And I think that's really where the problems every May and every June we see the same thing.

COOPER: Well, Michael, where do -- where -- I mean one, we haven't seen the parents in all of this talking coming out talking about it. But what kind of message do you think the parents are sending by lawyering up? By trying you know to wheel and deal and get their kids off?

SMERCONISH: Anderson, I just don't see it. I mean I -- you know there are plenty of instances of disparities and justice among the races.

FRIEDMAN: That's right.

SMERCONISH: But because these people live in nice houses, I don't think you can't say Oh, look it's because they're affluent, white kids. Again, if you had parents who lived in the ghetto and had their kids unattended, we'd still be sitting on SUNDAY MORNING on national television talking about it and watching the film footage. I just think these two cases have absolutely nothing to do with race.

COOPER: All right, we're going to have to leave it there. Michael Smerconish and Avery, appreciate you joining us.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

COOPER: It was interesting discussion, appreciate it.

FRIEDMAN: Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired May 18, 2003 - 08:13   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Turning now to our legal segment. You might say the party's over for Illinois teenagers. Our CNN contributor Michael Smerconish, trial attorney and talk show host is live in Philadelphia. And in Cleveland, civil rights attorney and law professor Avery Friedman.
Gentlemen, thanks for being with us.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Good morning.

COOPER: Avery, we want to start off with you. Let's start off by talking about this alleged hazing incident, this video we've all seen. Horrific story. Now you have the school getting involved. Where do you see this thing going in the courts?

FRIEDMAN: Oh, I see this thing going a situation where we have a powder puff football game and we're going to see powder puff justice. You got to understand, Anderson we're dealing with a situation of an affluent white suburb. So even though we have statutory batteries, if this were the ghetto, believe me the blacks would be going to jail. Here, I think, the kids are going to walk a way with a slap on the wrist, that's the end of it.

COOPER: You say that not only because of racial bias, I suppose you're saying that but also because of access to lawyers, high-priced attorneys.

FRIEDMAN: Well, that's exactly right. In fact, the DA in Cooke County says, well, you know there's a problem here, there's an issue because everybody has lawyers. Well, of course! There are issues of self-incrimination, so you can count on the fact that nobody's talking. And it's very difficult for law enforcement to get the evidence that it needs.

COOPER: Michael, do you think that's true that if these were African-American kids it would be a completely different story?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, TRIAL ATTORNEY: This case has absolutely nothing at all to do with race. What this case has much to do about is good video that makes for great television. And that's why everybody in America has probably seen this videotape 10 or 15 times already. But if the faces were black or Asian or pink or green, we'd still be watching it an equal number of times and law enforcement's reaction would be exactly the same.

The only question in my mind is whether the school has any accountability here. And to that it's the old Howard Baker question, what did the school know and when did they know it?

COOPER: What could the school have done though, Avery, in your opinion? Could they have done anything? And should they be able to take action against the students or should this simply be a matter for the courts?

FRIEDMAN: Well, under the Constitution, Anderson, unless the school has jurisdiction, there actually is nothing they can do. In fact, interestingly enough, the school put itself in jeopardy by expelling the kids and now there are a flurry of lawsuits because the school exceeded its jurisdiction. I think what the school should have done is recognized that if this sort of behavior goes on they could have done something in advance. But because it was off campus I think they're out of luck. I think it's a police matter, I don't think it's a school matter.

COOPER: We all know these kinds of things happen in threes, true or not but it certainly always seems too. But we have these two other cases; not of hazing, but in the Chicago area of, some might say, parties gone out of control. But in one case -- in Wheaton case, you have a family who leaves for vacation, a friend of the family, the kid gave access to the home, basically turns it into an animal House. They have parties there, there's blood, there's condoms, there's everything, they're driving around in their house, they're stealing their property.

Michael Smerconish, what is going on?

SMERCONISH: We had a similar case two years ago in the suburbs of Philadelphia, Anderson. I think the lesson here is the same lesson that it has often been. Kids and booze are a very dangerous combination. I hate to tell you, I remember being in high school and watching someone pull out an electric drill when someone's parents were not home and attempt to gain access to a keg. That's when I knew that it was time to go. It's been going on a long time. But never to this degree and it's terrible, but you can't leave your kids unsupervised.

COOPER: But you know I actually interviewed the parents and one of the kids involved in this incident. Although it's a family and they basically said, look, this is not just a harmless prank. This is not a bunch of kids partying while their parents are away this is burglary. And yet the law is basically treating it as a trespassing in a way.

Avery, where do you think legally this thing is going to end up?

FRIEDMAN: Again, Michael disagrees but I think he's wrong. We're dealing with rich, white kids. This is west of Chicago instead of north, even a more affluent suburbs. These kids are going to get powder puff justice. They're going to walk, there's not going to be a problem.

And you know what? The thing I do agree with is that unless the parents are held accountable, because they're the ones in many instances providing the alcohol. That's really the genesis of this. And I think that's really where the problems every May and every June we see the same thing.

COOPER: Well, Michael, where do -- where -- I mean one, we haven't seen the parents in all of this talking coming out talking about it. But what kind of message do you think the parents are sending by lawyering up? By trying you know to wheel and deal and get their kids off?

SMERCONISH: Anderson, I just don't see it. I mean I -- you know there are plenty of instances of disparities and justice among the races.

FRIEDMAN: That's right.

SMERCONISH: But because these people live in nice houses, I don't think you can't say Oh, look it's because they're affluent, white kids. Again, if you had parents who lived in the ghetto and had their kids unattended, we'd still be sitting on SUNDAY MORNING on national television talking about it and watching the film footage. I just think these two cases have absolutely nothing to do with race.

COOPER: All right, we're going to have to leave it there. Michael Smerconish and Avery, appreciate you joining us.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

COOPER: It was interesting discussion, appreciate it.

FRIEDMAN: Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com