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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Doug Jones
Aired June 01, 2003 - 07:26 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, more now on the arrest and the capture of Eric Rudolph in the small town of Murphy, North Carolina. Our Jason Bellini is in Ashville, North Carolina, which is Rudolph's next stop in what is sure to be a long legal road.
Good morning, Jason.
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Anderson. Well, behind me is the Bunkum County Detention Center in downtown Ashville. This is where Rudolph will be brought later today. We are not told exactly what time by the authorities, only that he's going to be brought here. He'll walk through those big red doors behind me. He's got an appointment with the judge Monday morning, 10:00 a.m. The judge is going to decide whether he's going to be transferred to Birmingham or to Atlanta to await trial.
Now Anderson, once he gets here, authorities plan, unless they're told otherwise by the FBI, to hold him in isolation in one of 22 jail cells in what they call their isolation -- what they call their special section of the jail. They also said they plan to process him in their standard procedure. They're going to give him a bar coded bracelet that also has his picture on it. He'll be changed into a white jail suit as well.
Now we can also tell you that Rudolph will face 21 criminal charges. It's up to the Justice Department to decide whether or not he faces the death penalty -- Anderson?
COOPER: Jason, I don't know if you've had a chance to talk to people in Ashville, but you know, suddenly a lot of world media is going to be descending on that town. How do people feel about Rudolph there?
BELLINI: Well, most people here just finding out. I spoke to some people at the hotel where we're saying. And we told them that Rudolph is coming here. And they said why. Well, I told them that the reason is this is the low -- the closest federal courthouse to where he was captured. He's coming here.
So people are just finding out that he's being brought to their town -- Anderson?
COOPER: I'm sure everyone will have an opinion by later today. Always when the world media descends on a town, tends to change peoples' opinions. And Jason Bellini, appreciate you joining us. Going to have more on the legal aspects just coming up right now. Jason, thanks very much.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN ANCHOR: And in fact, joining us now to talk about some of the legal issues ahead in this case is Doug Jones, the former U.S. Attorney in Birmingham, Alabama. He had only been on the job for four months when the abortion clinic was bombed there in January 1998. And in fact, Mr. Jones knows many of the victims, including nurse Emily Lyons. So there are personal and professional connections to the case.
Good morning, Mr. Jones. Thanks so much for being here with us.
DOUG JONES, U.S. ATTY., BIRMINGHAM, AL: Sure.
NEVILLE: First of all, let's talk about charges, if any charges have been filed against Rudolph in Alabama?
JONES: Yes. Charges have been filed in Birmingham and Atlanta. Federal grand juries in both Birmingham and Atlanta have issued separate indictments involving the various bombings in each place.
NEVILLE: So then in terms of the case being prosecuted, any -- is that likely in Atlanta -- Alabama?
JONES: Well, I think it's going to be decided by the Justice Department, obviously. They're going to be looking at the various strengths and weaknesses and where this case should first go. Some decisions have been made, but obviously with a change of administrations, a change in potential evidence. I know they're searching now for additional evidence. They need to get a real good look and get a handle on where they feel like the best case is, where they can go with their strength.
NEVILLE: Now is this going to be an open and shut case for prosecutors?
JONES: I don't think any case is open and shut. I mean, there's a lot of time, a lot of effort, incredible law enforcement effort that went into this matter. But a lot of these cases are building block type cases. They're circumstantial to a great extent. So there's no open and shut case. I think the Justice Department feels very good about their cases, but they're ready -- main thing is they're just ready to get this in front of a jury.
NEVILLE: Let me get to the personal part of this story here, if you would, Mr. Jones. Let's talk about that day in Birmingham when the bombing took place. You were there.
JONES: Yes, you know, those things you -- will live with you forever. I mean, it was just a fortuitous event. I was supposed to meet with some of the media that morning not far. I heard it on the radio and went there. I was one of the first ones on the scene. And I'll always remember a friend of mine, former Birmingham police officer who's now passed away that, you know, pointed out the scene, pointed out the body of Sandy Sanderson, laying there. And then having an FBI agent grab me to move me out of the way because of the fear of the secondary device that occurred here in Atlanta.
From that point, both the media and law enforcement descended on Birmingham. And it was a pretty much of worldwind after that.
NEVILLE: So when you heard the news that Eric Robert Rudolph had been captured, and that he perhaps allegedly committed those crimes, what was your reaction?
JONES: Oh, I was ecstatic. I mean, it was, you know, all of the flashbacks, everything came back into your mind about all the hard work that law enforcement did, that ATF agents on their hands and knees, picking up bomb fragments for five days after this bombing, you know, the highs and lows of hearing the -- Emily Rudolph -- Emily Lyons' condition. Those kind of things, and the families and Felicia Sanderson, the widow of Sandy, and the victims over here. Those are the kind of things you come back and say finally, five years -- it's taken five years. It's all going to pay off. Hopefully we're going to get this man in a court very soon.
NEVILLE: And how long do you think this legal road will be? And what would you like to see happen at the end of that road?
JONES: Well, I'm going to leave that to the Justice Department. Obviously, I think things move fairly quickly in federal court. I'm hoping that there will be a trial sometime within a year. Hopefully shortly after the first of the year. These cases are ready to go. They've been ready to go. It's just a question of tracking down the witnesses and the agents, bringing it all back and putting it together.
At the end of the day, it's going to be the Attorney General who has to decide should there be a conviction in these cases, whether or not Mr. Rudolph will face the death penalty. They have procedures in place for that to be reviewed by prosecutors and in giving the defense an opportunity to present any mitigating factors that they want the Justice Department to consider.
NEVILLE: One last personal question for you. If you could see Rudolph face to face, what would you say to him?
JONES: You know, my question is the same as everyone's. Why? You know, we've had a lot of speculation. People have tried to get into his head. There -- to some extent, there may be not a lot of rhyme or reason if you assume that he committed all these findings.
He stayed underground. And I think just to learn the motive and to see what was going on in his mind and what prompted him to do something that he's accused of, in both Atlanta and Birmingham. That's the overriding question.
NEVILLE: Is why. OK, Mr. Doug Jones, thank you so much for joining us here this morning.
JONES: OK.
NEVILLE: Former U.S. Attorney for Birmingham. JONES: Thank you.
NEVILLE: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 1, 2003 - 07:26 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, more now on the arrest and the capture of Eric Rudolph in the small town of Murphy, North Carolina. Our Jason Bellini is in Ashville, North Carolina, which is Rudolph's next stop in what is sure to be a long legal road.
Good morning, Jason.
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Anderson. Well, behind me is the Bunkum County Detention Center in downtown Ashville. This is where Rudolph will be brought later today. We are not told exactly what time by the authorities, only that he's going to be brought here. He'll walk through those big red doors behind me. He's got an appointment with the judge Monday morning, 10:00 a.m. The judge is going to decide whether he's going to be transferred to Birmingham or to Atlanta to await trial.
Now Anderson, once he gets here, authorities plan, unless they're told otherwise by the FBI, to hold him in isolation in one of 22 jail cells in what they call their isolation -- what they call their special section of the jail. They also said they plan to process him in their standard procedure. They're going to give him a bar coded bracelet that also has his picture on it. He'll be changed into a white jail suit as well.
Now we can also tell you that Rudolph will face 21 criminal charges. It's up to the Justice Department to decide whether or not he faces the death penalty -- Anderson?
COOPER: Jason, I don't know if you've had a chance to talk to people in Ashville, but you know, suddenly a lot of world media is going to be descending on that town. How do people feel about Rudolph there?
BELLINI: Well, most people here just finding out. I spoke to some people at the hotel where we're saying. And we told them that Rudolph is coming here. And they said why. Well, I told them that the reason is this is the low -- the closest federal courthouse to where he was captured. He's coming here.
So people are just finding out that he's being brought to their town -- Anderson?
COOPER: I'm sure everyone will have an opinion by later today. Always when the world media descends on a town, tends to change peoples' opinions. And Jason Bellini, appreciate you joining us. Going to have more on the legal aspects just coming up right now. Jason, thanks very much.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN ANCHOR: And in fact, joining us now to talk about some of the legal issues ahead in this case is Doug Jones, the former U.S. Attorney in Birmingham, Alabama. He had only been on the job for four months when the abortion clinic was bombed there in January 1998. And in fact, Mr. Jones knows many of the victims, including nurse Emily Lyons. So there are personal and professional connections to the case.
Good morning, Mr. Jones. Thanks so much for being here with us.
DOUG JONES, U.S. ATTY., BIRMINGHAM, AL: Sure.
NEVILLE: First of all, let's talk about charges, if any charges have been filed against Rudolph in Alabama?
JONES: Yes. Charges have been filed in Birmingham and Atlanta. Federal grand juries in both Birmingham and Atlanta have issued separate indictments involving the various bombings in each place.
NEVILLE: So then in terms of the case being prosecuted, any -- is that likely in Atlanta -- Alabama?
JONES: Well, I think it's going to be decided by the Justice Department, obviously. They're going to be looking at the various strengths and weaknesses and where this case should first go. Some decisions have been made, but obviously with a change of administrations, a change in potential evidence. I know they're searching now for additional evidence. They need to get a real good look and get a handle on where they feel like the best case is, where they can go with their strength.
NEVILLE: Now is this going to be an open and shut case for prosecutors?
JONES: I don't think any case is open and shut. I mean, there's a lot of time, a lot of effort, incredible law enforcement effort that went into this matter. But a lot of these cases are building block type cases. They're circumstantial to a great extent. So there's no open and shut case. I think the Justice Department feels very good about their cases, but they're ready -- main thing is they're just ready to get this in front of a jury.
NEVILLE: Let me get to the personal part of this story here, if you would, Mr. Jones. Let's talk about that day in Birmingham when the bombing took place. You were there.
JONES: Yes, you know, those things you -- will live with you forever. I mean, it was just a fortuitous event. I was supposed to meet with some of the media that morning not far. I heard it on the radio and went there. I was one of the first ones on the scene. And I'll always remember a friend of mine, former Birmingham police officer who's now passed away that, you know, pointed out the scene, pointed out the body of Sandy Sanderson, laying there. And then having an FBI agent grab me to move me out of the way because of the fear of the secondary device that occurred here in Atlanta.
From that point, both the media and law enforcement descended on Birmingham. And it was a pretty much of worldwind after that.
NEVILLE: So when you heard the news that Eric Robert Rudolph had been captured, and that he perhaps allegedly committed those crimes, what was your reaction?
JONES: Oh, I was ecstatic. I mean, it was, you know, all of the flashbacks, everything came back into your mind about all the hard work that law enforcement did, that ATF agents on their hands and knees, picking up bomb fragments for five days after this bombing, you know, the highs and lows of hearing the -- Emily Rudolph -- Emily Lyons' condition. Those kind of things, and the families and Felicia Sanderson, the widow of Sandy, and the victims over here. Those are the kind of things you come back and say finally, five years -- it's taken five years. It's all going to pay off. Hopefully we're going to get this man in a court very soon.
NEVILLE: And how long do you think this legal road will be? And what would you like to see happen at the end of that road?
JONES: Well, I'm going to leave that to the Justice Department. Obviously, I think things move fairly quickly in federal court. I'm hoping that there will be a trial sometime within a year. Hopefully shortly after the first of the year. These cases are ready to go. They've been ready to go. It's just a question of tracking down the witnesses and the agents, bringing it all back and putting it together.
At the end of the day, it's going to be the Attorney General who has to decide should there be a conviction in these cases, whether or not Mr. Rudolph will face the death penalty. They have procedures in place for that to be reviewed by prosecutors and in giving the defense an opportunity to present any mitigating factors that they want the Justice Department to consider.
NEVILLE: One last personal question for you. If you could see Rudolph face to face, what would you say to him?
JONES: You know, my question is the same as everyone's. Why? You know, we've had a lot of speculation. People have tried to get into his head. There -- to some extent, there may be not a lot of rhyme or reason if you assume that he committed all these findings.
He stayed underground. And I think just to learn the motive and to see what was going on in his mind and what prompted him to do something that he's accused of, in both Atlanta and Birmingham. That's the overriding question.
NEVILLE: Is why. OK, Mr. Doug Jones, thank you so much for joining us here this morning.
JONES: OK.
NEVILLE: Former U.S. Attorney for Birmingham. JONES: Thank you.
NEVILLE: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
