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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Janine Jackson, Ray Gifford

Aired June 01, 2003 - 09:25   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN ANCHOR: The FCC votes tomorrow on media ownership rule changes. The vote could change the way you and I watch and read about the world. At issue -- increasing the number of TV stations that can be owned by one company from 35 percent of the national market to 45 percent. Allowing cross ownership of newspapers and TV stations in the same market, and allowing ownership of multiple TV and radio stations in larger markets. Two guests join us now to debate these proposed changes. In New York, Janine Jackson is program director at Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, and in Denver, Ray Gifford is president of the Progress in Freedom Foundation.
I want to welcome both of you this morning. And starting with you, Janine, OK, what are we talking about here? In some market, maybe the radio station, the TV station, the newspaper all owned by the same company. What does that mean to the average listener or average reader?

JANINE JACKSON, FAIRNESS AND ACCURACY IN REPORTING: Well, it's a very serious consequence. Diversity of ideas, diversity of opinions and an access to a range of views is crucial for a democracy and these changes that are going to concentrate control over the media -- you know, entrench the control that a tiny handful of companies already have are going to be anti-democratic for that reason and also anti- competitive.

NEVILLE: But, Janine is that assuming that somehow that orders will be coming from the top and that reporters or -- and radio personalities are to say or play what the boss tells them?

JACKSON: Well, that's a very important question, because it's true that a given company might decide to use its overweening power offer the marketplace to strengthen their journalism, but they might not and so, the point is not to give them the power in the first place. We believe in a diversity of views in media, it's very important and we think diversity of ownership is the most important way to achieve that diversity of opinion.

NEVILLE: Ray, do you agree with Janine?

RAY GIFFORD, PROGRESS AND FREEDOM FUND: No, I really don't. And I think -- with all due respect, Janine's wrong on the law and the facts. On the law, the FCC is doing this because congress has told them to do it; they're also doing it because the courts have told them that these rules don't hold up in the new media environment. And on the facts, there is a new media environment going on. We have a multitude of more media outlets than we had back when some of these rules were adopted back in the 1940s.

JACKSON: Well, I...

GIFFORD: And, therefore, there's a multiplicity of voices that are already out there. I think we should be more concerned about big government dictating media policy than big media.

NEVILLE: Why do you say that, Ray?

GIFFORD: Well, the fact of the matter is -- is what's behind some of this is a degree of elitism that the American public doesn't know what it wants to watch and read and look at. I think we can trust the American public with the multitude, with the Internet, with satellite radio, with various media outlets, to make decisions on how and where they want to get their information.

NEVILLE: OK. So Janine I know you want to jump in there and I want to talk about this idea that when that Dixie Chicks story broke, there were some radio stations owned by one company that were told not to air their music.

JACKSON: Again, that was an -- a good example of censorship and just the sort of thing we want to avoid by not giving a single company or tiny handful of companies that much power -- the power to be the only voice in a community. And I can respond to those claims. First of all, yes, the D.C. Court of Appeals did tell the FCC they needed to do justify or eliminate these remaining checks on concentration. The problem is the FCC only seems to have heard the latter of the options, it would be possible for them to justify the regulations that we have, they simply haven't made any effort. and as for the Internet and the flourishing of choices, it's important to remember the difference between a diversity of formats and an actual diversity of owners, which provides the diversity of perspectives. 80 percent of Americans still get their news from TV...

NEVILLE: Janine, I'm short on time here. I've got to give Ray the last 20 seconds. Go ahead, sir.

GIFFORD: Well, there are a number of outlets that consumers have and let's also be clear what the FCC is poised to do tomorrow. It's a very measured, incremental change in these rules; they're not getting rid of the rules. They have done rigorous studies of media markets and come to, I think, a highly defensible conclusion that will hold up in the courts that we need to make some incremental changes in the media ownership rules and that's what they're going to do.

NEVILLE: OK, well, we'll be watching and Janine and Ray, I'm sure you both will have a chance to debate this issue another time. Janine Jackson, Ray Gifford, thanks both for joining me here this morning.

GIFFORD: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 1, 2003 - 09:25   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN ANCHOR: The FCC votes tomorrow on media ownership rule changes. The vote could change the way you and I watch and read about the world. At issue -- increasing the number of TV stations that can be owned by one company from 35 percent of the national market to 45 percent. Allowing cross ownership of newspapers and TV stations in the same market, and allowing ownership of multiple TV and radio stations in larger markets. Two guests join us now to debate these proposed changes. In New York, Janine Jackson is program director at Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, and in Denver, Ray Gifford is president of the Progress in Freedom Foundation.
I want to welcome both of you this morning. And starting with you, Janine, OK, what are we talking about here? In some market, maybe the radio station, the TV station, the newspaper all owned by the same company. What does that mean to the average listener or average reader?

JANINE JACKSON, FAIRNESS AND ACCURACY IN REPORTING: Well, it's a very serious consequence. Diversity of ideas, diversity of opinions and an access to a range of views is crucial for a democracy and these changes that are going to concentrate control over the media -- you know, entrench the control that a tiny handful of companies already have are going to be anti-democratic for that reason and also anti- competitive.

NEVILLE: But, Janine is that assuming that somehow that orders will be coming from the top and that reporters or -- and radio personalities are to say or play what the boss tells them?

JACKSON: Well, that's a very important question, because it's true that a given company might decide to use its overweening power offer the marketplace to strengthen their journalism, but they might not and so, the point is not to give them the power in the first place. We believe in a diversity of views in media, it's very important and we think diversity of ownership is the most important way to achieve that diversity of opinion.

NEVILLE: Ray, do you agree with Janine?

RAY GIFFORD, PROGRESS AND FREEDOM FUND: No, I really don't. And I think -- with all due respect, Janine's wrong on the law and the facts. On the law, the FCC is doing this because congress has told them to do it; they're also doing it because the courts have told them that these rules don't hold up in the new media environment. And on the facts, there is a new media environment going on. We have a multitude of more media outlets than we had back when some of these rules were adopted back in the 1940s.

JACKSON: Well, I...

GIFFORD: And, therefore, there's a multiplicity of voices that are already out there. I think we should be more concerned about big government dictating media policy than big media.

NEVILLE: Why do you say that, Ray?

GIFFORD: Well, the fact of the matter is -- is what's behind some of this is a degree of elitism that the American public doesn't know what it wants to watch and read and look at. I think we can trust the American public with the multitude, with the Internet, with satellite radio, with various media outlets, to make decisions on how and where they want to get their information.

NEVILLE: OK. So Janine I know you want to jump in there and I want to talk about this idea that when that Dixie Chicks story broke, there were some radio stations owned by one company that were told not to air their music.

JACKSON: Again, that was an -- a good example of censorship and just the sort of thing we want to avoid by not giving a single company or tiny handful of companies that much power -- the power to be the only voice in a community. And I can respond to those claims. First of all, yes, the D.C. Court of Appeals did tell the FCC they needed to do justify or eliminate these remaining checks on concentration. The problem is the FCC only seems to have heard the latter of the options, it would be possible for them to justify the regulations that we have, they simply haven't made any effort. and as for the Internet and the flourishing of choices, it's important to remember the difference between a diversity of formats and an actual diversity of owners, which provides the diversity of perspectives. 80 percent of Americans still get their news from TV...

NEVILLE: Janine, I'm short on time here. I've got to give Ray the last 20 seconds. Go ahead, sir.

GIFFORD: Well, there are a number of outlets that consumers have and let's also be clear what the FCC is poised to do tomorrow. It's a very measured, incremental change in these rules; they're not getting rid of the rules. They have done rigorous studies of media markets and come to, I think, a highly defensible conclusion that will hold up in the courts that we need to make some incremental changes in the media ownership rules and that's what they're going to do.

NEVILLE: OK, well, we'll be watching and Janine and Ray, I'm sure you both will have a chance to debate this issue another time. Janine Jackson, Ray Gifford, thanks both for joining me here this morning.

GIFFORD: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com