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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Michael Smerconish, Avery Friedman
Aired July 20, 2003 - 10:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN ANCHOR: Kobe Bryant heads to a court of law for a hearing on August 6 in Colorado. He is not the only celebrity in the legal spotlight. The insider case against Martha Stewart goes back to the courtroom tomorrow. Here to talk more about both of those celebrity justice cases, Michael Smerconish. He is a talk show host and a trial attorney, as well as Avery Friedman. He is a civil rights attorney and a law professor. Gentlemen, thanks very much for coming in on this Sunday. A lot to talk about as always, huh?
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Thank you.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Thank you.
CALLEBS: Michael, I want to talk with you. First, your reaction when you saw Kobe come out with his lawyers Friday night? It was a very explosive night, the charges first coming out, and then Kobe seemingly speaking from the heart. Your thoughts on that?
SMERCONISH: Masterful. I thought it was a terrific performance, and I don't mean to denigrate it when I use the word "performance" But so often, Sean, you see these defense lawyers who don't allow their clients to speak at the outset of a very serious case like this one. Kobe is used to the spotlight. I think he handled himself well. Even the audio, the audible breaths that he was taking, I think, gave him credibility.
There sat the wife. Notice that she was wearing the crucifix. I mean, I thought the whole thing was well laid out, and it stole the headline from the prosecution because the next morning's newspapers were all about Kobe's denial and not so much about the victim and what it is that she had been saying.
CALLEBS: Avery, your thoughts and the information that the prosecutor has to work with at this point? Apparently a couple nurses have been subpoenaed and are going to testify, but no eyewitnesses, no witnesses perhaps in a room next door hearing any kind of noises, screaming anything of that nature.
FRIEDMAN: Well, Sean, it doesn't matter whether it's Kobe Bryant or Bear Bryant or Bryant Gumbel. This is celebrity litigation, and it is going to have to be handled in a very, very special way. The fact is, though -- and here's the reality -- the court of public opinion, fine, he's doing great.
But in a court of law, think about this. Eagle County, Colorado, has about 46,000 people, Sean, and the jury pool is going to be 99.7 percent white. And the people that are thinking that thinking race isn't an issue, they're dreaming.
CALLEBS: Hey, Avery, let me tell you why I disagree with you on that score. Kobe Bryant grew up in the township where I now reside. He went to the local high school. It's a white township by and large, much like this Colorado community. Kobe Bryant has a tremendous amount of support here in the suburbs of Philadelphia. I think that Kobe has appeal to whites and to blacks, and this is not O. J.
FRIEDMAN: That's great except the fact that in maybe in Philadelphia, but this is Eagle County, Colorado, up in the mountains.
CALLEBS: OK, but hang on just a second. Let's hear what the prosecutor has to say. He's 34 years old. He's only been in office a matter of months, and now he is really going to face the trial of his life. Hear what he had to say about the public opinion and the people in his county.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK HURLBERT, EAGLE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The court of public opinion, I suppose, is important. Really the only court that interests me right now is the court where 12 Eagle County citizens will sit, and that is the most important court. All the evidence will come out at that time. And I don't want to jeopardize that by commenting on any evidence before then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: Avery, I'll throw this to you, Avery. Is he going to be overmatched and overwhelmed once Kobe gets the high-priced legal team up against him.
FRIEDMAN: Yes. The reality is that Mark Hurlbert, who is going to be -- his first major trial is going to be going back to the Board of County Commissioners to get some more money because Kobe's coming into Eagle County with some serious defense counsel. So, I agree, I think the inexperience issue is going to be an issue, but the reality is that he knows his constituency, and the defense team at this point does not.
CALLEBS: Michael, how do you think the prosecution case is going to play out?
SMERCONISH: Well, I think in the end, it's going to come down to a credibility contest and a he said, she said. We really don't know, at this point, whether they have any other elements to the case, such as torn clothing, furniture that was disrupted, someone in the next room who may have heard something. There's been conflicting information.
But in the end, Sean, it comes down to this woman, whose name we don't know, and whether we believe her -- or whether a jury believes her, I should say --when she gives her side of the story.
CALLEBS: And Michael, what about the damage to Kobe as an individual in terms of his sports future? Endorsements, things of that nature?
SMERCONISH: Very interesting question. In the year it 2003, do you lose an endorsement for being an adulterer? In the world of NBA, you probably do not. You certainly lose everything, if you're convicted of charges such as these.
CALLEBS: Yes, exactly. He's facing everything from possible probation to the kind of stuff that would care you on the "Oz" show.
FRIEDMAN: It's a rape case. I don't know why we use all this (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
SMERCONISH: He's facing life in prison if he's convicted.
CALLEBS: Exactly. OK, gentlemen, let's move on to Martha Stewart. I was up there the first day that she went to the federal courthouse. It was mob scene. What do you expect so see once she goes back there?
FRIEDMAN: Well, this coming Monday is merely a pretrial. The trial is coming up in January. The only beneficiary of Kobe Bryant is Martha Stewart. The reality is that at this point, there are efforts by defense counsel to try to get as much information.
But the case has be characterized, Sean, as insider trading. In fact, this nine count indictment deals with her lying to FTC investigators, lying to the FBI, and that's where the focus of this trial is going.
CALLEBS: Exactly. To pump up the price of her own stock, sort of take the focus off. Michael, what about Sam Waksal? Clearly the prosecution leaned on him to give up Martha Stewart. It didn't happen. After spending all this time working on this case, do you think that feds are going to walk away with very little, if nothing?
SMERCONISH: I think already they're left with very little in the Martha Stewart case because in the end, they did not have a sufficient degree of confidence to take her on for insider trading, and so what are they now saying? That she lied about something that was not itself a crime? And she's a tough woman. Man, this Martha Stewart, don't let that cookie baking fool you. I think she is going to be one tough nut to crack for the prosecution.
CALLEBS: OK, gentlemen, Michael Smerconish, attorney, talk show host, thanks very much for joining us, as well as Avery Friedman, civil rights attorney. We appreciate it, gentlemen. Thanks a lot.
FRIEDMAN: Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 20, 2003 - 10:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN ANCHOR: Kobe Bryant heads to a court of law for a hearing on August 6 in Colorado. He is not the only celebrity in the legal spotlight. The insider case against Martha Stewart goes back to the courtroom tomorrow. Here to talk more about both of those celebrity justice cases, Michael Smerconish. He is a talk show host and a trial attorney, as well as Avery Friedman. He is a civil rights attorney and a law professor. Gentlemen, thanks very much for coming in on this Sunday. A lot to talk about as always, huh?
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Thank you.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Thank you.
CALLEBS: Michael, I want to talk with you. First, your reaction when you saw Kobe come out with his lawyers Friday night? It was a very explosive night, the charges first coming out, and then Kobe seemingly speaking from the heart. Your thoughts on that?
SMERCONISH: Masterful. I thought it was a terrific performance, and I don't mean to denigrate it when I use the word "performance" But so often, Sean, you see these defense lawyers who don't allow their clients to speak at the outset of a very serious case like this one. Kobe is used to the spotlight. I think he handled himself well. Even the audio, the audible breaths that he was taking, I think, gave him credibility.
There sat the wife. Notice that she was wearing the crucifix. I mean, I thought the whole thing was well laid out, and it stole the headline from the prosecution because the next morning's newspapers were all about Kobe's denial and not so much about the victim and what it is that she had been saying.
CALLEBS: Avery, your thoughts and the information that the prosecutor has to work with at this point? Apparently a couple nurses have been subpoenaed and are going to testify, but no eyewitnesses, no witnesses perhaps in a room next door hearing any kind of noises, screaming anything of that nature.
FRIEDMAN: Well, Sean, it doesn't matter whether it's Kobe Bryant or Bear Bryant or Bryant Gumbel. This is celebrity litigation, and it is going to have to be handled in a very, very special way. The fact is, though -- and here's the reality -- the court of public opinion, fine, he's doing great.
But in a court of law, think about this. Eagle County, Colorado, has about 46,000 people, Sean, and the jury pool is going to be 99.7 percent white. And the people that are thinking that thinking race isn't an issue, they're dreaming.
CALLEBS: Hey, Avery, let me tell you why I disagree with you on that score. Kobe Bryant grew up in the township where I now reside. He went to the local high school. It's a white township by and large, much like this Colorado community. Kobe Bryant has a tremendous amount of support here in the suburbs of Philadelphia. I think that Kobe has appeal to whites and to blacks, and this is not O. J.
FRIEDMAN: That's great except the fact that in maybe in Philadelphia, but this is Eagle County, Colorado, up in the mountains.
CALLEBS: OK, but hang on just a second. Let's hear what the prosecutor has to say. He's 34 years old. He's only been in office a matter of months, and now he is really going to face the trial of his life. Hear what he had to say about the public opinion and the people in his county.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK HURLBERT, EAGLE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The court of public opinion, I suppose, is important. Really the only court that interests me right now is the court where 12 Eagle County citizens will sit, and that is the most important court. All the evidence will come out at that time. And I don't want to jeopardize that by commenting on any evidence before then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: Avery, I'll throw this to you, Avery. Is he going to be overmatched and overwhelmed once Kobe gets the high-priced legal team up against him.
FRIEDMAN: Yes. The reality is that Mark Hurlbert, who is going to be -- his first major trial is going to be going back to the Board of County Commissioners to get some more money because Kobe's coming into Eagle County with some serious defense counsel. So, I agree, I think the inexperience issue is going to be an issue, but the reality is that he knows his constituency, and the defense team at this point does not.
CALLEBS: Michael, how do you think the prosecution case is going to play out?
SMERCONISH: Well, I think in the end, it's going to come down to a credibility contest and a he said, she said. We really don't know, at this point, whether they have any other elements to the case, such as torn clothing, furniture that was disrupted, someone in the next room who may have heard something. There's been conflicting information.
But in the end, Sean, it comes down to this woman, whose name we don't know, and whether we believe her -- or whether a jury believes her, I should say --when she gives her side of the story.
CALLEBS: And Michael, what about the damage to Kobe as an individual in terms of his sports future? Endorsements, things of that nature?
SMERCONISH: Very interesting question. In the year it 2003, do you lose an endorsement for being an adulterer? In the world of NBA, you probably do not. You certainly lose everything, if you're convicted of charges such as these.
CALLEBS: Yes, exactly. He's facing everything from possible probation to the kind of stuff that would care you on the "Oz" show.
FRIEDMAN: It's a rape case. I don't know why we use all this (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
SMERCONISH: He's facing life in prison if he's convicted.
CALLEBS: Exactly. OK, gentlemen, let's move on to Martha Stewart. I was up there the first day that she went to the federal courthouse. It was mob scene. What do you expect so see once she goes back there?
FRIEDMAN: Well, this coming Monday is merely a pretrial. The trial is coming up in January. The only beneficiary of Kobe Bryant is Martha Stewart. The reality is that at this point, there are efforts by defense counsel to try to get as much information.
But the case has be characterized, Sean, as insider trading. In fact, this nine count indictment deals with her lying to FTC investigators, lying to the FBI, and that's where the focus of this trial is going.
CALLEBS: Exactly. To pump up the price of her own stock, sort of take the focus off. Michael, what about Sam Waksal? Clearly the prosecution leaned on him to give up Martha Stewart. It didn't happen. After spending all this time working on this case, do you think that feds are going to walk away with very little, if nothing?
SMERCONISH: I think already they're left with very little in the Martha Stewart case because in the end, they did not have a sufficient degree of confidence to take her on for insider trading, and so what are they now saying? That she lied about something that was not itself a crime? And she's a tough woman. Man, this Martha Stewart, don't let that cookie baking fool you. I think she is going to be one tough nut to crack for the prosecution.
CALLEBS: OK, gentlemen, Michael Smerconish, attorney, talk show host, thanks very much for joining us, as well as Avery Friedman, civil rights attorney. We appreciate it, gentlemen. Thanks a lot.
FRIEDMAN: Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
