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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Chester Gillis

Aired August 24, 2003 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Now back to our top story, the prison death of convicted child sex abuser and defrocked priest, John Geoghan. CNN's Michael Okwu is in New York with the latest on the investigation. And Georgetown University Theology Professor Chester Gillis joins us for a look at the impact the death might have on Geoghan's victims.
We begin this morning with Michael Okwu. Michael, the very latest.

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Heidi, good morning. Law enforcement officials in Massachusetts are saying that John Geoghan was strangled to death by another inmate. Now it happened at about noon yesterday in a correctional facility in Shirley, Massachusetts. He was taken to a hospital where he apparently died about two hours later.

One prominent Massachusetts insider commented on the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMB. RAYMOND FLYNN, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE VATICAN: Well, I thought it was a very tragic end to a very sad chapter to John Geoghan. It comes at a time when great progress is being made in the Archdiocese of Boston, attempting to settle justly a number of these cases and putting the Church back on the right track. So this was really a sad time for our Archdiocese of Boston.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OKWU: Geoghan was 68 years old. He was serving time in prison; nine to 10 years to maximum for molesting a 10-year-old boy back in 1991. Now though he was already also awaiting trial on an alleged rape case that occurred back in 1991, of course his case rocked the Roman Catholic Archdiocese in the Boston area after it became very clear that Geoghan had been transferred from parish to parish despite the fact that church leaders knew about these allegations against him and about his general behavior.

Later on, it became clear, according to archdiocese papers, that this had happened with dozens of other priest in dozens of other molestation cases. Mr. Geoghan was taken, again, to the hospital. There will be an autopsy which will come out, we are told, on Monday morning.

In the meantime, the inmate involved in the case is in isolation. And we understand from Massachusetts state officials that he was already serving life behind bars -- Heidi.

COLLINS: All right. CNN's Michael Okwu with the very latest on this situation coming to us from New York this morning.

We turn our attention now to Georgetown University Theology Professor Chester Gillis to give us a little bit more on the impact of the death of John Geoghan.

Let me just ask you, professor, what were your first thoughts when you heard of this news?

CHESTER GILLIS, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY THEOLOGY PROFESSOR: Well, first of all, it was certainly unexpected. And the fact that he died in prison at the hands of another prisoner raised some questions as to why he was murdered in prison. Was this prisoner knowledgeable of what he had done and angry about it, or was it just some random act of violence? But it seems we don't know the details of his death.

COLLINS: What we do know is that he was apparently being held in protective custody to shield him from other inmates, but that he did have contact here and there with other inmates. Would the church have anything to say at this point about how that protective custody was handled?

GILLIS: I don't know. Until the investigation is completed, I doubt the church will have any criticism of the prison system at this point. But clearly, if he was put in harm's way in the prison system, there should be forthcoming criticism. But I think even in prison, child molesters are a particular kind of a variety where even other prisoners are not very happy to have them with them.

COLLINS: All right. I want to go ahead and move on, if we could, professor, to some e-mail that we have gotten on this topic this morning. One of our viewers wrote into us and I wanted to just share it with you.

It says, "I thought from day one that putting these priests into the regular prison system would end exactly as this has. If the death penalty was going to be the actual sentence, it should have been right on the table right from the start."

Your reaction to that?

GILLIS: Well, I don't know if that's the case. I'm sure that the prison system tried to protect him as best they could. But he had to be at some times within the prison population, I suppose. So I don't think that this was a death sentence on the part of the prison system or the archdiocese or those who sued the archdiocese and Geoghan.

They didn't anticipate this end. I'm sure no one did.

COLLINS: What will this mean for the Boston Archdiocese at this time?

GILLIS: Well, in a sense, it's an exclamation point on a very sad story. I agree with Ambassador Flynn in that regard, that this is just another tragedy in a series of tragedies for one of the ugliest circumstances in American church history. However, it's not over yet.

I think that there will still be -- that there still is pending litigation, and there's a lot of healing to be done. And people must remember that the victims of Geoghan will carry their suffering until their own death. This is not an expiation for that punishment for them. They will carry this for the rest of their lives, and there can be no resolution for them, I don't think. Even if there's a financial resolution, that's probably inadequate.

COLLINS: In speaking about some sort of reform, though, we know that Archbishop O'Malley, as we said earlier this morning, had his work cut out for him before. Now it seems that there will be more work to do as far as the relations between the church and the laity. What is the progress that's been made so far?

GILLIS: Well, I think there's significant progress. I think Archbishop O'Malley has been very proactive in this matter and he wants to resolve this. He wants to revolve this in a just manner fairly so that the victims are compensated fairly. And he wants to do it quickly.

And I think he's hired a different attorney. They're working very assiduously on this case. The details have not been revealed, but it is said that $65 million has been offered by the archdiocese and the victims are looking for something of $90 million or up, and they may come to some compromise.

I think everyone wants it resolved. I think for the archdiocese it would be very important if they could resolve it quickly and perhaps people will give the church, the local church in Boston, a second chance under this new leadership. And they can rebuild confidence in the church, which has been eroded over the last 18 months.

COLLINS: It's certainly a long process ahead, I am sure. Thanks so much for joining us this morning. Georgetown University Professor Chester Gillis, thanks again.

GILLIS: My pleasure. Thank you.

COLLINS: On a related note, four priests in the Archdiocese of Boston have taken voluntary leaves of absence over allegations of sexual misconduct with minors. The alleged incidents were all said to have happened decades ago. The new archbishop of Boston, as we just mentioned, Sean Patrick O'Malley, asked the four to step aside until the allegations are investigated.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 24, 2003 - 09:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Now back to our top story, the prison death of convicted child sex abuser and defrocked priest, John Geoghan. CNN's Michael Okwu is in New York with the latest on the investigation. And Georgetown University Theology Professor Chester Gillis joins us for a look at the impact the death might have on Geoghan's victims.
We begin this morning with Michael Okwu. Michael, the very latest.

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Heidi, good morning. Law enforcement officials in Massachusetts are saying that John Geoghan was strangled to death by another inmate. Now it happened at about noon yesterday in a correctional facility in Shirley, Massachusetts. He was taken to a hospital where he apparently died about two hours later.

One prominent Massachusetts insider commented on the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMB. RAYMOND FLYNN, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE VATICAN: Well, I thought it was a very tragic end to a very sad chapter to John Geoghan. It comes at a time when great progress is being made in the Archdiocese of Boston, attempting to settle justly a number of these cases and putting the Church back on the right track. So this was really a sad time for our Archdiocese of Boston.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OKWU: Geoghan was 68 years old. He was serving time in prison; nine to 10 years to maximum for molesting a 10-year-old boy back in 1991. Now though he was already also awaiting trial on an alleged rape case that occurred back in 1991, of course his case rocked the Roman Catholic Archdiocese in the Boston area after it became very clear that Geoghan had been transferred from parish to parish despite the fact that church leaders knew about these allegations against him and about his general behavior.

Later on, it became clear, according to archdiocese papers, that this had happened with dozens of other priest in dozens of other molestation cases. Mr. Geoghan was taken, again, to the hospital. There will be an autopsy which will come out, we are told, on Monday morning.

In the meantime, the inmate involved in the case is in isolation. And we understand from Massachusetts state officials that he was already serving life behind bars -- Heidi.

COLLINS: All right. CNN's Michael Okwu with the very latest on this situation coming to us from New York this morning.

We turn our attention now to Georgetown University Theology Professor Chester Gillis to give us a little bit more on the impact of the death of John Geoghan.

Let me just ask you, professor, what were your first thoughts when you heard of this news?

CHESTER GILLIS, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY THEOLOGY PROFESSOR: Well, first of all, it was certainly unexpected. And the fact that he died in prison at the hands of another prisoner raised some questions as to why he was murdered in prison. Was this prisoner knowledgeable of what he had done and angry about it, or was it just some random act of violence? But it seems we don't know the details of his death.

COLLINS: What we do know is that he was apparently being held in protective custody to shield him from other inmates, but that he did have contact here and there with other inmates. Would the church have anything to say at this point about how that protective custody was handled?

GILLIS: I don't know. Until the investigation is completed, I doubt the church will have any criticism of the prison system at this point. But clearly, if he was put in harm's way in the prison system, there should be forthcoming criticism. But I think even in prison, child molesters are a particular kind of a variety where even other prisoners are not very happy to have them with them.

COLLINS: All right. I want to go ahead and move on, if we could, professor, to some e-mail that we have gotten on this topic this morning. One of our viewers wrote into us and I wanted to just share it with you.

It says, "I thought from day one that putting these priests into the regular prison system would end exactly as this has. If the death penalty was going to be the actual sentence, it should have been right on the table right from the start."

Your reaction to that?

GILLIS: Well, I don't know if that's the case. I'm sure that the prison system tried to protect him as best they could. But he had to be at some times within the prison population, I suppose. So I don't think that this was a death sentence on the part of the prison system or the archdiocese or those who sued the archdiocese and Geoghan.

They didn't anticipate this end. I'm sure no one did.

COLLINS: What will this mean for the Boston Archdiocese at this time?

GILLIS: Well, in a sense, it's an exclamation point on a very sad story. I agree with Ambassador Flynn in that regard, that this is just another tragedy in a series of tragedies for one of the ugliest circumstances in American church history. However, it's not over yet.

I think that there will still be -- that there still is pending litigation, and there's a lot of healing to be done. And people must remember that the victims of Geoghan will carry their suffering until their own death. This is not an expiation for that punishment for them. They will carry this for the rest of their lives, and there can be no resolution for them, I don't think. Even if there's a financial resolution, that's probably inadequate.

COLLINS: In speaking about some sort of reform, though, we know that Archbishop O'Malley, as we said earlier this morning, had his work cut out for him before. Now it seems that there will be more work to do as far as the relations between the church and the laity. What is the progress that's been made so far?

GILLIS: Well, I think there's significant progress. I think Archbishop O'Malley has been very proactive in this matter and he wants to resolve this. He wants to revolve this in a just manner fairly so that the victims are compensated fairly. And he wants to do it quickly.

And I think he's hired a different attorney. They're working very assiduously on this case. The details have not been revealed, but it is said that $65 million has been offered by the archdiocese and the victims are looking for something of $90 million or up, and they may come to some compromise.

I think everyone wants it resolved. I think for the archdiocese it would be very important if they could resolve it quickly and perhaps people will give the church, the local church in Boston, a second chance under this new leadership. And they can rebuild confidence in the church, which has been eroded over the last 18 months.

COLLINS: It's certainly a long process ahead, I am sure. Thanks so much for joining us this morning. Georgetown University Professor Chester Gillis, thanks again.

GILLIS: My pleasure. Thank you.

COLLINS: On a related note, four priests in the Archdiocese of Boston have taken voluntary leaves of absence over allegations of sexual misconduct with minors. The alleged incidents were all said to have happened decades ago. The new archbishop of Boston, as we just mentioned, Sean Patrick O'Malley, asked the four to step aside until the allegations are investigated.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com