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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Martha Zoller, Nancy Skinner

Aired September 07, 2003 - 09:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A new push from the Bush administration now is trying to get support for a proposed United Nations resolution that would create a multinational security force in Iraq. But the troops would still be under U.S. control.
We're going to talk about that this morning with, first, Martha Zoller, she's a conservative radio talk show host at WDUN here in Atlanta. Good morning, Martha. Thanks for being here.

And Nancy Skinner joining us from Chicago, she's a liberal syndicated radio talk show host of "Good Day U.S.A." Thanks for being here as well, Linda. Or, I'm sorry, excuse me, Nancy.

Want to talk to you ladies, if we could, first about whether or not the U.S. can go it alone in Iraq. Not a new question. But let's begin there. Martha?

MARTHA ZOLLER, TALK SHOW HOST, WDUN RADIO: Well, they haven't gone it alone up until this point. They've had 14 countries involved in the money part of it. A number of countries involved in the troops. Of course, we have been the major portion of this along with Great Britain.

But I think that as in any war, World War II, we got in there, we realized that things were different than what we thought, we regrouped. In Vietnam, we did not regroup. That's why it became the quagmire that it was. That's what we're doing right now. We're seeing what needs to be done and we're asking for support from the international community. And I think that that would be expected. The Bush administration never ruled that out at the beginning of this confrontation.

COLLINS: Nancy, is that something that has always been the plan for the administration in your eyes?

NANCY SKINNER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, "GOOD DAY U.S.A.": No, and I can't resist a big we told you so here because the critics of the way the Bush administration pushed us into war said exactly this, Heidi. We said, you need our coalition allies now, because once we get in there, we're going to need their help to rebuild. So when they tried to bully the world through resolution 1441, and tried to say our way or the highway, we said we're going to need these people. Don't do this.

ZOLLER: How is bullying the world on 1441 with a 15-0 vote? That is not bullying the world. SKINNER: You will recall that we were trying to purchase votes; we were threatening countries with sanctions if they didn't vote with us. And the fact is, then we had silliness where we had official rebuffs by the United States to the French, we pulled out of the air show, had the freedom fry debacle.

Look, the short-term solution is we've been telling you all along you need our allies. We're glad they finally realized that we do. The long-term solution to healing the wounds with the international community is getting rid of George Bush, putting a new president in there that can heal our wounds.

ZOLLER: I don't know what this us and we business is. I thought we were all Americans the last time we looked, which means when you go to war, you do things like David Scott, the democrat on the Congressional Black Caucus who went to Iraq, who went and looked, went to every meeting, came back to the White House, he can get meetings with the White House because he's reasonable, and he said, look, this is what you're doing right, this is what we need work on, but we're still in the right place.

That's what Americans do. Americans don't sit there and say, see, I told you so. See, you know, we are doing this and they are doing that. We're all in this boat together. And this is not any different than anybody has done any previous war where they go in and they change things. Wesley Clark, in fact, was asked to resign as a result of the fact he wanted to change the direction in Kosovo. This is not unusual in wartime.

COLLINS: Let's talk for a moment, if we could, about the U.N. It seems to me that's where the discussion is going. And the question that has been asked before, let's look at it now today. What is the U.N. role? What about this organization and what it can do in this particular situation?

SKINNER: Well, provide credibility. First and foremost, we have to convince the world, and the Arab world, and the Iraqis that this is not a U.S.-led occupation. That's what it looks like right now, despite when you say, oh, we have 40, we have 100 countries involved, we don't. It's the U.S. on the ground. It's the U.S. paying for it, and we're dying for it as well. So we have to lend the credibility, get different colors of skin in there to show them that this is the whole world who is behind this. And at this point we don't have it.

ZOLLER: Different colors of skin? I mean, the United States military is the most diverse place in this country.

SKINNER: OK.

ZOLLER: It is the one color place in America.

SKINNER: They are Americans. What I'm saying is we need Arab people on the ground in an Arab situation to show them that this is the entire world. So credibility...

ZOLLER: I don't disagree with that. COLLINS: Let's not talk over each other. Nancy, how do you do that? How do you get the Arab world involved?

SKINNER: Now we have very little leverage because we played our cards so badly. But what we have to do is maximize what leverage we do have and cut the best deal we can to get our allies and other countries like Pakistanis and other countries to the table to bring in troops and put them on the ground.

COLLINS: Martha, will the U.S. get the support that they need either from the Arab world or the U.N.?

ZOLLER: Well, currently on the list of the top supporters financially are the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, I think we have the Arab world on board. However, what we do have to do with the U.N. is do what they do best, which is humanitarian aid, which is be a part of a force.

But if you look at the wars they have sanctioned versus the wars they've haven't, I mean, they have a dismal record over the course of their history as far as the wars they've sanctioned and the wars they haven't. But I do think the U.N. needs to come on board and do what they're doing. But I don't think we have to cut a deal.

Nancy made a great point that it is our blood being shed there. We have the most invested there. So based on that, we are the ones that should be able to say, OK, this is how we're going to do it. We're going to compromise with you, but we have to lead these forces, and that's the way it has to be.

SKINNER: hat incentive do they have if we don't offer them a power-sharing role? If we said to them, listen, we want your money and we want troops but you're going to have no say in the decision- making, would we do that, Martha? Would the United States do that?

ZOLLER: I think as far as the military, no we would not. I think as far as military situations are concerned, you've got to have one group that is in charge in military situations.

Where their payback is going to come is in contracts afterwards and in rebuilding Iraq, if it's payback. The best payback is going to be you're going to have a democratic Iraq that is going to be able to trade with the world and is going to set the example that you can have a democracy that works in the Muslim world.

And the successes are not being reported. Paul Bremer takes people out every day to show them the successes in this war, and you don't see those things being reported. But I do believe that they're on the ground and they're going to do the right thing.

COLLINS: All right, ladies, I'm going to have to call it quits for today. Thanks so much for your time, to both of you. Martha Zoller, we appreciate it, and Nancy Skinner, we appreciate it as well. Thanks so much, ladies.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 7, 2003 - 09:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A new push from the Bush administration now is trying to get support for a proposed United Nations resolution that would create a multinational security force in Iraq. But the troops would still be under U.S. control.
We're going to talk about that this morning with, first, Martha Zoller, she's a conservative radio talk show host at WDUN here in Atlanta. Good morning, Martha. Thanks for being here.

And Nancy Skinner joining us from Chicago, she's a liberal syndicated radio talk show host of "Good Day U.S.A." Thanks for being here as well, Linda. Or, I'm sorry, excuse me, Nancy.

Want to talk to you ladies, if we could, first about whether or not the U.S. can go it alone in Iraq. Not a new question. But let's begin there. Martha?

MARTHA ZOLLER, TALK SHOW HOST, WDUN RADIO: Well, they haven't gone it alone up until this point. They've had 14 countries involved in the money part of it. A number of countries involved in the troops. Of course, we have been the major portion of this along with Great Britain.

But I think that as in any war, World War II, we got in there, we realized that things were different than what we thought, we regrouped. In Vietnam, we did not regroup. That's why it became the quagmire that it was. That's what we're doing right now. We're seeing what needs to be done and we're asking for support from the international community. And I think that that would be expected. The Bush administration never ruled that out at the beginning of this confrontation.

COLLINS: Nancy, is that something that has always been the plan for the administration in your eyes?

NANCY SKINNER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, "GOOD DAY U.S.A.": No, and I can't resist a big we told you so here because the critics of the way the Bush administration pushed us into war said exactly this, Heidi. We said, you need our coalition allies now, because once we get in there, we're going to need their help to rebuild. So when they tried to bully the world through resolution 1441, and tried to say our way or the highway, we said we're going to need these people. Don't do this.

ZOLLER: How is bullying the world on 1441 with a 15-0 vote? That is not bullying the world. SKINNER: You will recall that we were trying to purchase votes; we were threatening countries with sanctions if they didn't vote with us. And the fact is, then we had silliness where we had official rebuffs by the United States to the French, we pulled out of the air show, had the freedom fry debacle.

Look, the short-term solution is we've been telling you all along you need our allies. We're glad they finally realized that we do. The long-term solution to healing the wounds with the international community is getting rid of George Bush, putting a new president in there that can heal our wounds.

ZOLLER: I don't know what this us and we business is. I thought we were all Americans the last time we looked, which means when you go to war, you do things like David Scott, the democrat on the Congressional Black Caucus who went to Iraq, who went and looked, went to every meeting, came back to the White House, he can get meetings with the White House because he's reasonable, and he said, look, this is what you're doing right, this is what we need work on, but we're still in the right place.

That's what Americans do. Americans don't sit there and say, see, I told you so. See, you know, we are doing this and they are doing that. We're all in this boat together. And this is not any different than anybody has done any previous war where they go in and they change things. Wesley Clark, in fact, was asked to resign as a result of the fact he wanted to change the direction in Kosovo. This is not unusual in wartime.

COLLINS: Let's talk for a moment, if we could, about the U.N. It seems to me that's where the discussion is going. And the question that has been asked before, let's look at it now today. What is the U.N. role? What about this organization and what it can do in this particular situation?

SKINNER: Well, provide credibility. First and foremost, we have to convince the world, and the Arab world, and the Iraqis that this is not a U.S.-led occupation. That's what it looks like right now, despite when you say, oh, we have 40, we have 100 countries involved, we don't. It's the U.S. on the ground. It's the U.S. paying for it, and we're dying for it as well. So we have to lend the credibility, get different colors of skin in there to show them that this is the whole world who is behind this. And at this point we don't have it.

ZOLLER: Different colors of skin? I mean, the United States military is the most diverse place in this country.

SKINNER: OK.

ZOLLER: It is the one color place in America.

SKINNER: They are Americans. What I'm saying is we need Arab people on the ground in an Arab situation to show them that this is the entire world. So credibility...

ZOLLER: I don't disagree with that. COLLINS: Let's not talk over each other. Nancy, how do you do that? How do you get the Arab world involved?

SKINNER: Now we have very little leverage because we played our cards so badly. But what we have to do is maximize what leverage we do have and cut the best deal we can to get our allies and other countries like Pakistanis and other countries to the table to bring in troops and put them on the ground.

COLLINS: Martha, will the U.S. get the support that they need either from the Arab world or the U.N.?

ZOLLER: Well, currently on the list of the top supporters financially are the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, I think we have the Arab world on board. However, what we do have to do with the U.N. is do what they do best, which is humanitarian aid, which is be a part of a force.

But if you look at the wars they have sanctioned versus the wars they've haven't, I mean, they have a dismal record over the course of their history as far as the wars they've sanctioned and the wars they haven't. But I do think the U.N. needs to come on board and do what they're doing. But I don't think we have to cut a deal.

Nancy made a great point that it is our blood being shed there. We have the most invested there. So based on that, we are the ones that should be able to say, OK, this is how we're going to do it. We're going to compromise with you, but we have to lead these forces, and that's the way it has to be.

SKINNER: hat incentive do they have if we don't offer them a power-sharing role? If we said to them, listen, we want your money and we want troops but you're going to have no say in the decision- making, would we do that, Martha? Would the United States do that?

ZOLLER: I think as far as the military, no we would not. I think as far as military situations are concerned, you've got to have one group that is in charge in military situations.

Where their payback is going to come is in contracts afterwards and in rebuilding Iraq, if it's payback. The best payback is going to be you're going to have a democratic Iraq that is going to be able to trade with the world and is going to set the example that you can have a democracy that works in the Muslim world.

And the successes are not being reported. Paul Bremer takes people out every day to show them the successes in this war, and you don't see those things being reported. But I do believe that they're on the ground and they're going to do the right thing.

COLLINS: All right, ladies, I'm going to have to call it quits for today. Thanks so much for your time, to both of you. Martha Zoller, we appreciate it, and Nancy Skinner, we appreciate it as well. Thanks so much, ladies.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com