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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Douglas Brinkley
Aired September 21, 2003 - 07:50 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk more now about the legacy of military commanders becoming America's commander-in-chief and those who also seek the post. Presidential historian Douglas Brinkley now joins us from Boston.
Good morning. Thanks for coming in today. We appreciate it.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Thanks for having me.
CALLEBS: Can you tell us about Wesley Clark? How do you think he shapes up against the previous 10 generals who sought to be president? I know it spans a great deal of time, but what about him? He seems to be more political in nature, more willing to accept orders. A lot of generals simply can't take them?
BRINKLEY: Well, you know, he's a -- of course a Vietnam Veteran, won the Silver Star and Purple Heart. But it's different of Wesley Clark and most of the other generals that became president. They got -- most of our previous presidents were known for some big action.
You think of George Washington at Valley Forge or Andrew Jackson at the Battle of New Orleans, William Henry Harrison at Tippecanoe, or Grant at Vicksburg, Eisenhower at D Day. You don't have that with Wesley Clark.
That great moment in history that he participated in, you have the resume. And certainly he was an important general when one looks at the Clinton years at dealing with Kosovo and situation in Bosnia, but he does not -- he's not a household name the way an Eisenhower or Grant would have been.
CALLEBS: What do you think about saying he says he wants to run a campaign worthy of historic times. What do you read into that?
BRINKLEY: Well, I read into it that foreign affairs matters right now, that military affairs matter, that the war in Iraq has gone slightly sour, maybe to put it mildly, and that he's a -- looking at himself as being the general of the moment, somebody who could come in there and clean up the mess in Iraq.
Of course, that's what Eisenhower ran on in '52, when he said I'll get us out of Korea. Truman decided not to run in 1952, even though he could have gone for re-election because his poll numbers were in the 20s. And at that point, America had had its fill of Korea. I think Clark's counting on America having its fill in Iraq. And remember, he's trying to get that primary win. And in the next few months, the situation in Baghdad's going to be crucial. I think he's counting on that as being -- that's I think the whole point behind the draft Clark movement.
CALLEBS: Any surprise on the early poll numbers that we've seen come out, showing him vault ahead of a whole host of Democratic candidates, and also nipping at President Bush's heels if the race were held today?
BRINKLEY: No, because as you well know, you have media cycles. And he got a big bump this past week.
CALLEBS: Right.
BRINKLEY: He's in the newspapers. Today's Sunday "New York Times," a full page is his time for his bio to get out there. I think you'll see those numbers taper off a little bit.
I think we're running into a real race here in January with, you know, John Kerry, Wesley Clark, and of course Howard Dean. And as maybe becoming a slugfest between the three of them.
CALLEBS: At what point do you think people really begin to delve in his background? I mean, he graduated first in his class from West Point. His resume, as you said, is impeccable. But when do people start looking and saying well what did he do here? What did he do here?
BRINKLEY: Well, that's a good question. And that moment's upon us right now. Believe you me, journalists are digging into every aspect of his past now, trying to break a story.
What's unclear is what he stands on a lot of positions. Where does Wesley Clark stand on issues dealing with education or Social Security? Can he think on his feet on domestic issues? You know, having a military background of foreign affairs is only one part of the equation. People are going to want to know about their jobs. People are going to want to know whether he really can govern. He does not have any background as a legislator or a governor of any kind. So I think those are going to be challenges for him to convince people that he is knowledgeable about issues that matter in their daily life, not just foreign affairs.
CALLEBS: I also have to say, he's spent a great deal of time on our during the early part of the war in Iraq. And that isn't going to hurt him in terms of name recognition.
BRINKLEY: I think that's his biggest thing he had going for him this year was being on CNN, started beaming into people's living rooms. I remember watching Aaron Brown and Wesley Clark go back and forth at it. And it was smart commentary. And I think that's enhanced him in a name recognition way and has brought his face to a lot of people. Before that, really, before that exposure on CNN, Wesley Clark was -- had a memoir out. He was known as a figure in the Clinton years. You would connect him with Bosnia, along with Richard Holbrooke and others. But I don't think there was much of a clear focus on him.
I have to say I think the surprising aspect of this week with Wesley Clark has been the Clinton administration's -- some of the ex- friends of Clinton, if you like, or from the administration gathering around Clark a little bit. That's been an interesting development. But the fact that Clark decided to run was no surprise.
BRINKLEY: Right. Douglas Brinkley, presidential historian, thanks for joining us from Boston this morning. We certainly appreciate your insight.
BRINKLEY: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 21, 2003 - 07:50 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk more now about the legacy of military commanders becoming America's commander-in-chief and those who also seek the post. Presidential historian Douglas Brinkley now joins us from Boston.
Good morning. Thanks for coming in today. We appreciate it.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Thanks for having me.
CALLEBS: Can you tell us about Wesley Clark? How do you think he shapes up against the previous 10 generals who sought to be president? I know it spans a great deal of time, but what about him? He seems to be more political in nature, more willing to accept orders. A lot of generals simply can't take them?
BRINKLEY: Well, you know, he's a -- of course a Vietnam Veteran, won the Silver Star and Purple Heart. But it's different of Wesley Clark and most of the other generals that became president. They got -- most of our previous presidents were known for some big action.
You think of George Washington at Valley Forge or Andrew Jackson at the Battle of New Orleans, William Henry Harrison at Tippecanoe, or Grant at Vicksburg, Eisenhower at D Day. You don't have that with Wesley Clark.
That great moment in history that he participated in, you have the resume. And certainly he was an important general when one looks at the Clinton years at dealing with Kosovo and situation in Bosnia, but he does not -- he's not a household name the way an Eisenhower or Grant would have been.
CALLEBS: What do you think about saying he says he wants to run a campaign worthy of historic times. What do you read into that?
BRINKLEY: Well, I read into it that foreign affairs matters right now, that military affairs matter, that the war in Iraq has gone slightly sour, maybe to put it mildly, and that he's a -- looking at himself as being the general of the moment, somebody who could come in there and clean up the mess in Iraq.
Of course, that's what Eisenhower ran on in '52, when he said I'll get us out of Korea. Truman decided not to run in 1952, even though he could have gone for re-election because his poll numbers were in the 20s. And at that point, America had had its fill of Korea. I think Clark's counting on America having its fill in Iraq. And remember, he's trying to get that primary win. And in the next few months, the situation in Baghdad's going to be crucial. I think he's counting on that as being -- that's I think the whole point behind the draft Clark movement.
CALLEBS: Any surprise on the early poll numbers that we've seen come out, showing him vault ahead of a whole host of Democratic candidates, and also nipping at President Bush's heels if the race were held today?
BRINKLEY: No, because as you well know, you have media cycles. And he got a big bump this past week.
CALLEBS: Right.
BRINKLEY: He's in the newspapers. Today's Sunday "New York Times," a full page is his time for his bio to get out there. I think you'll see those numbers taper off a little bit.
I think we're running into a real race here in January with, you know, John Kerry, Wesley Clark, and of course Howard Dean. And as maybe becoming a slugfest between the three of them.
CALLEBS: At what point do you think people really begin to delve in his background? I mean, he graduated first in his class from West Point. His resume, as you said, is impeccable. But when do people start looking and saying well what did he do here? What did he do here?
BRINKLEY: Well, that's a good question. And that moment's upon us right now. Believe you me, journalists are digging into every aspect of his past now, trying to break a story.
What's unclear is what he stands on a lot of positions. Where does Wesley Clark stand on issues dealing with education or Social Security? Can he think on his feet on domestic issues? You know, having a military background of foreign affairs is only one part of the equation. People are going to want to know about their jobs. People are going to want to know whether he really can govern. He does not have any background as a legislator or a governor of any kind. So I think those are going to be challenges for him to convince people that he is knowledgeable about issues that matter in their daily life, not just foreign affairs.
CALLEBS: I also have to say, he's spent a great deal of time on our during the early part of the war in Iraq. And that isn't going to hurt him in terms of name recognition.
BRINKLEY: I think that's his biggest thing he had going for him this year was being on CNN, started beaming into people's living rooms. I remember watching Aaron Brown and Wesley Clark go back and forth at it. And it was smart commentary. And I think that's enhanced him in a name recognition way and has brought his face to a lot of people. Before that, really, before that exposure on CNN, Wesley Clark was -- had a memoir out. He was known as a figure in the Clinton years. You would connect him with Bosnia, along with Richard Holbrooke and others. But I don't think there was much of a clear focus on him.
I have to say I think the surprising aspect of this week with Wesley Clark has been the Clinton administration's -- some of the ex- friends of Clinton, if you like, or from the administration gathering around Clark a little bit. That's been an interesting development. But the fact that Clark decided to run was no surprise.
BRINKLEY: Right. Douglas Brinkley, presidential historian, thanks for joining us from Boston this morning. We certainly appreciate your insight.
BRINKLEY: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
