Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Timothy Burger
Aired September 28, 2003 - 07:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A published report says Saddam Hussein's scientists went to great length to fake reports about weapons of mass destruction. "TIME" magazine cover story details the steps. It says the weapons were not being developed. It was all a way to embezzle the Iraqi government. Let's talk -- with us now, the author of that article, correspondent Timothy Burger joining us from Washington this morning. Mr. Burger, thanks for being with us.
Want to ask you first off, how badly was Saddam Hussein deceived about the weapons that he thought he had?
TIMOTHY BURGER, TIME CORRESPONDENT: Well, you have to understand that Saddam Hussein as a our correspondent Mickey Ware (ph) in Iraq has discovered, he ran quite a culture of fear among everyone who worked for him.
So if someone was having trouble developing a particular sort of weapon, then they might very well go to Saddam and say, hey, you know, fake a report and say, you know, Mr. President, as they thought he was, you know, we're doing great on the problem. And sort of lead him down the garden path.
So for -- in some cases, some of the weapons that he may have thought he had in fact was just being faked on paper.
COLLINS: What about any sort of personal profit that those very same people could be making from all of this?
BURGER: Yes, along the same lines, they might -- you know, if Saddam would budget millions of dollars to build a particular weapons system, then in fact these people, if they're not actually building it, could just pocket the money. And that's what my colleague, Mickey Ware, found in Iraq that some people were reporting that their colleagues had just been putting away millions of dollars and telling Saddam that it was going into new programs for weapons.
COLLINS: But you know, there's got to be another side to this, too. And in the article, there are a lot of questions asked and answered by all of the contributors to this article. And one of them is about sources still being too frightened that Saddam Hussein might actually come back into power some day and too afraid to share what they know, share their secrets, if you will.
What sort of credence do you put into that?
BURGER: Oh, it's a big problem in Iraq. We hear that over and over. Saddam again was such a fearsome leader, he would slaughter anybody who had the slightest suspicion of having been disloyal. And so, a lot of people are very concerned in Iraq, even today, when he's obviously out of power for good as we know. But a lot of people in Iraq still fear that he might come back.
One of the problems is back in the last Gulf War, the United States conquered Saddam, but then left him in power. And so a lot of people who had some courage to try and step up and speak out back then, he -- as soon as he regained control of the country then killed them. So there's a lot of fear that potentially Saddam's reign is not over. So until it's clear that it is, there are some people who will not cooperate with the United States in trying to figure out what was going on.
COLLINS: And of course, we have all heard so much about the U.N. inspectors going into these different facilities, suspected facilities and learning not much from these same people that we are talking about now.
But what about -- one of the other questions in the articles says, you know, why all the hide and seek if these suspect facilities really didn't contain any sort of incriminating evidence? Why so much secrecy?
BURGER: Well, one of the issues that people raise is that there was other military secrets then. And you know, if the weapons inspectors were coming into a weapons facility, some of the people who we talked to say well, there was no WMD in there, but we had other state military secrets that we didn't want to disclose. You know, perhaps certain kinds of rockets and all that.
Remember, it's a dangerous region. And Saddam would certainly be trying to have a conventional military force. And so, one of the arguments that some of our sources made is that that's what they were trying to hide. Of course, the hunt for weapons of mass destruction by the United States goes on. And so, we won't know the whole story until that's done. But for now, it's been very difficult for evidence of that WMD program to be found.
COLLINS: All right, Timothy Burger, we appreciate your time this morning so very much for giving us a little bit of a preview of that article that is paired with the cover article on "TIME" magazine coming out. From "TIME" magazine in Washington, thanks so much, Timothy Burger.
BURGER: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 28, 2003 - 07:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A published report says Saddam Hussein's scientists went to great length to fake reports about weapons of mass destruction. "TIME" magazine cover story details the steps. It says the weapons were not being developed. It was all a way to embezzle the Iraqi government. Let's talk -- with us now, the author of that article, correspondent Timothy Burger joining us from Washington this morning. Mr. Burger, thanks for being with us.
Want to ask you first off, how badly was Saddam Hussein deceived about the weapons that he thought he had?
TIMOTHY BURGER, TIME CORRESPONDENT: Well, you have to understand that Saddam Hussein as a our correspondent Mickey Ware (ph) in Iraq has discovered, he ran quite a culture of fear among everyone who worked for him.
So if someone was having trouble developing a particular sort of weapon, then they might very well go to Saddam and say, hey, you know, fake a report and say, you know, Mr. President, as they thought he was, you know, we're doing great on the problem. And sort of lead him down the garden path.
So for -- in some cases, some of the weapons that he may have thought he had in fact was just being faked on paper.
COLLINS: What about any sort of personal profit that those very same people could be making from all of this?
BURGER: Yes, along the same lines, they might -- you know, if Saddam would budget millions of dollars to build a particular weapons system, then in fact these people, if they're not actually building it, could just pocket the money. And that's what my colleague, Mickey Ware, found in Iraq that some people were reporting that their colleagues had just been putting away millions of dollars and telling Saddam that it was going into new programs for weapons.
COLLINS: But you know, there's got to be another side to this, too. And in the article, there are a lot of questions asked and answered by all of the contributors to this article. And one of them is about sources still being too frightened that Saddam Hussein might actually come back into power some day and too afraid to share what they know, share their secrets, if you will.
What sort of credence do you put into that?
BURGER: Oh, it's a big problem in Iraq. We hear that over and over. Saddam again was such a fearsome leader, he would slaughter anybody who had the slightest suspicion of having been disloyal. And so, a lot of people are very concerned in Iraq, even today, when he's obviously out of power for good as we know. But a lot of people in Iraq still fear that he might come back.
One of the problems is back in the last Gulf War, the United States conquered Saddam, but then left him in power. And so a lot of people who had some courage to try and step up and speak out back then, he -- as soon as he regained control of the country then killed them. So there's a lot of fear that potentially Saddam's reign is not over. So until it's clear that it is, there are some people who will not cooperate with the United States in trying to figure out what was going on.
COLLINS: And of course, we have all heard so much about the U.N. inspectors going into these different facilities, suspected facilities and learning not much from these same people that we are talking about now.
But what about -- one of the other questions in the articles says, you know, why all the hide and seek if these suspect facilities really didn't contain any sort of incriminating evidence? Why so much secrecy?
BURGER: Well, one of the issues that people raise is that there was other military secrets then. And you know, if the weapons inspectors were coming into a weapons facility, some of the people who we talked to say well, there was no WMD in there, but we had other state military secrets that we didn't want to disclose. You know, perhaps certain kinds of rockets and all that.
Remember, it's a dangerous region. And Saddam would certainly be trying to have a conventional military force. And so, one of the arguments that some of our sources made is that that's what they were trying to hide. Of course, the hunt for weapons of mass destruction by the United States goes on. And so, we won't know the whole story until that's done. But for now, it's been very difficult for evidence of that WMD program to be found.
COLLINS: All right, Timothy Burger, we appreciate your time this morning so very much for giving us a little bit of a preview of that article that is paired with the cover article on "TIME" magazine coming out. From "TIME" magazine in Washington, thanks so much, Timothy Burger.
BURGER: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
