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CNN Sunday Morning
Crisis in Middle East: Israel Hits Syria
Aired October 05, 2003 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Israel attacks what it calls a terrorist training base, just 10 miles from Damascus, Syria. It is the first Israeli attack in Syria in more than 30 years. Israel says the base was used by several terrorist organizations. Islamic Jihad has claimed responsibility for yesterday's suicide bombing that killed 19 people in Haifa, Israel. Islamic Jihad denies that it has any base in Syria.
Now, to explain how the latest violence plays out in this ongoing crisis, CNN Beirut bureau chief Brent Sadler joins us live from Lebanon -- Brent.
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Marty. And what we have seen here over the past few hours, many observers on the ground really pinpointing what's happened overnight in this region as a very important, strategic change in the Arab-Israeli conflict vis-a- vis the Syrians and the Israelis and Lebanon on the sidelines. The Lebanese capital, Beirut, is just two and a half hours from Damascus. And it was, we understand, in an overnight raid that the Israeli air force attacked what the Israeli leadership is saying were a training facility of Islamic Jihad and Hamas.
Islamic Jihad, of course, responsible for the Saturday suicide bombing in Haifa, northern Israel, which, if you could drive there south from Beirut, if there was no border, if there was a freeway, it would take you just about three hours. That gives you the idea of the proximity of all of the places, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, the Syrian capital, Damascus, here in Beirut and Haifa, where that suicide bombing took place with the loss of 19 Israeli lives.
Now, what we're seeing here is a crossing of what effectively has been a red line for many decades, perhaps as many as 30 years, in which there's been no real Israeli action from the ground or from the air against Syrian targets in Syria. What we've seen, both before and after the Israeli occupation of south Lebanon -- that occupation ended three years ago -- has been Israel attacking Syrian military targets in Lebanon in response to Hezbollah attacks against Israeli occupation troops when they were in Lebanon and, of course, at the foot of the Golan Heights in a place called the Shebaa Farms.
Very, very complicated, Martin. But what it does mean is that there is a lot of connectivity between what Islamic Jihad is doing in terms of its terrorist actions in Israel. It's seen also in conjunction by the U.S. administration and the Israelis in context with what Hezbollah does here in terms of what is described by administration officials as terror activities. So all really a lot of connection here. The Syrians are saying, and Islamic Jihad is saying, that there are no active fighters from Islamic Jihad in Syria and that Syria, in terms of one Syrian official, says Israel has violated the disengagement accord signed by Syria and Israel back in 1974. So very, very serious ramifications in the wake of what has happened with this airstrike against Syrian territory, against an Islamic Jihad designated, pinpointed by Israel.
Back to you, Martin.
SAVIDGE: You're right, Brent, it is complicated. And that's what makes it potentially very volatile. Thanks very much, Brent Sadler, our bureau chief in Beirut, Lebanon -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, now let's see if there's reaction from the Bush administration on the attacks. CNN's Kathleen Koch is at the White House -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kelli, no response yet early this Sunday morning to the Israeli strike. President Bush is in the city today. He is attending church as we speak. So we do expect perhaps some reaction soon.
But, traditionally in the past, the U.S. has supported Israel's right to defend itself. All the while, though, reminding Israel to keep in mind the effect of those actions on the continuing efforts toward peace in the Middle East. The United States itself, the Bush administration, has been trying with very little effect, though, to get Syria to cut its ties, to cut its support to terrorist organizations like Hamas, like Islamic Jihad, and the popular front for the liberation of Palestinian.
Back in May, when Secretary of State Colin Powell visited Syria, visited Damascus, he said that he believed that the country would soon shut down the local branches of those groups. But just a month later, in July, Powell complained that very little had been done, calling Damascus' efforts, "totally inadequate."
The United States has also been applying a great deal of pressure to Syria to get it to stem the flow of militant fighters into Iraq, those fighters attacking and killing U.S. forces. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said that the largest number of foreign fighters that the U.S. has captured in Iraq have come from Syria, then followed by fighters coming from Lebanon.
So on very many fronts up to this point the U.S. has had little success in its diplomatic efforts trying in trying to get Syria to change its behavior. Now, Syria, for its part, says the U.S. has put forth too many demands, and it says it is ready to cooperate if those demands become reasonable and realistic -- Kelli.
ARENA: All right, Kathleen. Well, we'll be waiting for any official response as soon as you get it. Thanks very much.
Well, let's get more in-depth perspective on the attack. Joining us to talk about the possible consequences is Mamoun Fandy. He's a senior fellow at the U.S. Institute of Peace.
Good morning, sir.
MAMOUN FANDY, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: Good morning, Kelli.
ARENA: Well, we've heard no official U.S. reaction yet, but there's lot of speculation that for Israel to undertake an operation like this, they must have gotten some general green light from the U.S. What do you think?
FANDY: Well, thus far, there is no reaction, as you said, and there is no clear condemnation from the United States. What happened this morning is really a major move on the Middle Eastern chessboard of strategy, if you will; Israel attacking Syria since the first time since 1973.
That border has been sealed, no bullet came across that border between Syria and Israel for almost 30 years. This is a major crossing, as Brent said, a major crossing of a red line in the Middle East. It makes everybody in the Middle East very nervous.
ARENA: And not only Syria, but earlier, an Israeli official said that Syria's just part of an axis of terror. He also named Gaza, obviously Damascus and Tehran. So dragging Iran into the picture, as well. How serious do you think that rhetoric is?
FANDY: Well, it seems from Israeli statements that there is a major shift in Israeli policy to go after what they call states harboring terrorists. And by attacking Syria, this is something really, really major in the Middle East. Everybody in the Middle Eastern capitals is absolutely nervous. The Iranians will be nervous about this.
This move is dangerous in many ways because, if the Syrians respond, that will throw the whole Middle East in this dark tunnel. If they don't, then they will be undermined internally and the whole attitude of the new president of Syria, Bashar El-Assah, will be tested internally. Also, Hamas and Islamic Jihad have absolute interest to undermine the status quo in the Middle East and shake Middle Eastern leaders.
So everybody has an interest in escalation. But I think the Syrians will have a measured response. Maybe they would not respond at all, in a sense, because the stakes are very high.
ARENA: Well, we know that they have already taken a complaint to the U.N. Is that a hopeful sign?
FANDY: I think probably if that's the ceiling of it, them we are fine. I mean the status quo can be maintained. And probably if they take the legalistic approach through the U.N., then they would expect a condemnation of the Israeli action of violation of Israel of Syrian territories. But, I mean, it's really up there, and nobody can guess what the response might be.
My only guess is that the Syrians will be restrained. If they are not restrained, I think the whole region will go (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
ARENA: What option, if any, does this allow for Palestine's Ahmed Qurei? Is he just completely backed up against a wall now in terms of any effort to get Palestinians on board with any peace accord?
FANDY: I think this is part of Hamas and Islamic Jihad's strategy to undermine Arafat, to undermine Ahmed Qurei, because just doing operations either from Syria or Lebanon is really provoking Israel to respond and make Arafat and Ahmed Qurei terribly irrelevant in this whole equation and become interstate conflict between Syria and Israel or Lebanon and Israel. So Arafat will be totally marginalized in this process.
ARENA: All right. Mamoun Fandy, from the U.S. Institute of Peace, thank you so much for joining us this morning.
FANDY: Thank you, Kelli.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 5, 2003 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Israel attacks what it calls a terrorist training base, just 10 miles from Damascus, Syria. It is the first Israeli attack in Syria in more than 30 years. Israel says the base was used by several terrorist organizations. Islamic Jihad has claimed responsibility for yesterday's suicide bombing that killed 19 people in Haifa, Israel. Islamic Jihad denies that it has any base in Syria.
Now, to explain how the latest violence plays out in this ongoing crisis, CNN Beirut bureau chief Brent Sadler joins us live from Lebanon -- Brent.
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Marty. And what we have seen here over the past few hours, many observers on the ground really pinpointing what's happened overnight in this region as a very important, strategic change in the Arab-Israeli conflict vis-a- vis the Syrians and the Israelis and Lebanon on the sidelines. The Lebanese capital, Beirut, is just two and a half hours from Damascus. And it was, we understand, in an overnight raid that the Israeli air force attacked what the Israeli leadership is saying were a training facility of Islamic Jihad and Hamas.
Islamic Jihad, of course, responsible for the Saturday suicide bombing in Haifa, northern Israel, which, if you could drive there south from Beirut, if there was no border, if there was a freeway, it would take you just about three hours. That gives you the idea of the proximity of all of the places, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, the Syrian capital, Damascus, here in Beirut and Haifa, where that suicide bombing took place with the loss of 19 Israeli lives.
Now, what we're seeing here is a crossing of what effectively has been a red line for many decades, perhaps as many as 30 years, in which there's been no real Israeli action from the ground or from the air against Syrian targets in Syria. What we've seen, both before and after the Israeli occupation of south Lebanon -- that occupation ended three years ago -- has been Israel attacking Syrian military targets in Lebanon in response to Hezbollah attacks against Israeli occupation troops when they were in Lebanon and, of course, at the foot of the Golan Heights in a place called the Shebaa Farms.
Very, very complicated, Martin. But what it does mean is that there is a lot of connectivity between what Islamic Jihad is doing in terms of its terrorist actions in Israel. It's seen also in conjunction by the U.S. administration and the Israelis in context with what Hezbollah does here in terms of what is described by administration officials as terror activities. So all really a lot of connection here. The Syrians are saying, and Islamic Jihad is saying, that there are no active fighters from Islamic Jihad in Syria and that Syria, in terms of one Syrian official, says Israel has violated the disengagement accord signed by Syria and Israel back in 1974. So very, very serious ramifications in the wake of what has happened with this airstrike against Syrian territory, against an Islamic Jihad designated, pinpointed by Israel.
Back to you, Martin.
SAVIDGE: You're right, Brent, it is complicated. And that's what makes it potentially very volatile. Thanks very much, Brent Sadler, our bureau chief in Beirut, Lebanon -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, now let's see if there's reaction from the Bush administration on the attacks. CNN's Kathleen Koch is at the White House -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kelli, no response yet early this Sunday morning to the Israeli strike. President Bush is in the city today. He is attending church as we speak. So we do expect perhaps some reaction soon.
But, traditionally in the past, the U.S. has supported Israel's right to defend itself. All the while, though, reminding Israel to keep in mind the effect of those actions on the continuing efforts toward peace in the Middle East. The United States itself, the Bush administration, has been trying with very little effect, though, to get Syria to cut its ties, to cut its support to terrorist organizations like Hamas, like Islamic Jihad, and the popular front for the liberation of Palestinian.
Back in May, when Secretary of State Colin Powell visited Syria, visited Damascus, he said that he believed that the country would soon shut down the local branches of those groups. But just a month later, in July, Powell complained that very little had been done, calling Damascus' efforts, "totally inadequate."
The United States has also been applying a great deal of pressure to Syria to get it to stem the flow of militant fighters into Iraq, those fighters attacking and killing U.S. forces. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said that the largest number of foreign fighters that the U.S. has captured in Iraq have come from Syria, then followed by fighters coming from Lebanon.
So on very many fronts up to this point the U.S. has had little success in its diplomatic efforts trying in trying to get Syria to change its behavior. Now, Syria, for its part, says the U.S. has put forth too many demands, and it says it is ready to cooperate if those demands become reasonable and realistic -- Kelli.
ARENA: All right, Kathleen. Well, we'll be waiting for any official response as soon as you get it. Thanks very much.
Well, let's get more in-depth perspective on the attack. Joining us to talk about the possible consequences is Mamoun Fandy. He's a senior fellow at the U.S. Institute of Peace.
Good morning, sir.
MAMOUN FANDY, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: Good morning, Kelli.
ARENA: Well, we've heard no official U.S. reaction yet, but there's lot of speculation that for Israel to undertake an operation like this, they must have gotten some general green light from the U.S. What do you think?
FANDY: Well, thus far, there is no reaction, as you said, and there is no clear condemnation from the United States. What happened this morning is really a major move on the Middle Eastern chessboard of strategy, if you will; Israel attacking Syria since the first time since 1973.
That border has been sealed, no bullet came across that border between Syria and Israel for almost 30 years. This is a major crossing, as Brent said, a major crossing of a red line in the Middle East. It makes everybody in the Middle East very nervous.
ARENA: And not only Syria, but earlier, an Israeli official said that Syria's just part of an axis of terror. He also named Gaza, obviously Damascus and Tehran. So dragging Iran into the picture, as well. How serious do you think that rhetoric is?
FANDY: Well, it seems from Israeli statements that there is a major shift in Israeli policy to go after what they call states harboring terrorists. And by attacking Syria, this is something really, really major in the Middle East. Everybody in the Middle Eastern capitals is absolutely nervous. The Iranians will be nervous about this.
This move is dangerous in many ways because, if the Syrians respond, that will throw the whole Middle East in this dark tunnel. If they don't, then they will be undermined internally and the whole attitude of the new president of Syria, Bashar El-Assah, will be tested internally. Also, Hamas and Islamic Jihad have absolute interest to undermine the status quo in the Middle East and shake Middle Eastern leaders.
So everybody has an interest in escalation. But I think the Syrians will have a measured response. Maybe they would not respond at all, in a sense, because the stakes are very high.
ARENA: Well, we know that they have already taken a complaint to the U.N. Is that a hopeful sign?
FANDY: I think probably if that's the ceiling of it, them we are fine. I mean the status quo can be maintained. And probably if they take the legalistic approach through the U.N., then they would expect a condemnation of the Israeli action of violation of Israel of Syrian territories. But, I mean, it's really up there, and nobody can guess what the response might be.
My only guess is that the Syrians will be restrained. If they are not restrained, I think the whole region will go (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
ARENA: What option, if any, does this allow for Palestine's Ahmed Qurei? Is he just completely backed up against a wall now in terms of any effort to get Palestinians on board with any peace accord?
FANDY: I think this is part of Hamas and Islamic Jihad's strategy to undermine Arafat, to undermine Ahmed Qurei, because just doing operations either from Syria or Lebanon is really provoking Israel to respond and make Arafat and Ahmed Qurei terribly irrelevant in this whole equation and become interstate conflict between Syria and Israel or Lebanon and Israel. So Arafat will be totally marginalized in this process.
ARENA: All right. Mamoun Fandy, from the U.S. Institute of Peace, thank you so much for joining us this morning.
FANDY: Thank you, Kelli.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
