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CNN Sunday Morning
Weekend House Call
Aired November 02, 2003 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning and welcome to WEEKEND HOUSE CALL. We're looking at a very interesting topic this morning: Spirituality and your health. New numbers out just this morning show the majority of those polled, about 63 percent, think there is a place for medicine and spirituality. While just 28 percent said that the two should be kept separate. Now, whether you're into meditation, positive thinking, or prayer, new studies show it can have a positive effect on your health.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The benefit behind cultivating Buddha Gita...
GUPTA (voice-over): Eastern meditation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
GUPTA: Or western prayer. You may be looking at the next fitness craze.
ANDREW NEWBERG, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: The mind and the body are very intimately interconnected.
GUPTA: Dr. Andrew Newberg, a radiologist at the University of Pennsylvania studies what happens inside the brain when you enter the spiritual realm.
Using a radioactive dye that targets brain activity, he scans the brains of his subjects to see what happens before meditation or prayer, then during the act.
NEWBERG: Then what we do -- we're going to do is we're going to slide you in here.
GUPTA: So what happens? Activity in the frontal lobe goes up while the area that gives us a sense of self, separate from the outside world, well that goes quiet. In these brain scans, red signals for activity, green and yellow less. The brain on the left is a Franciscan nun in a normal state of mind, on the right after 30 minutes of intense prayer.
NEWBERG: They may begin to lose that boundary between themselves and the world. They may have a feeling of oneness between themselves and the world. GUPTA: Another key finding, meditation seems to trigger changes in the hypothalamus which governs heart rate, blood pressure, and hormones like Cortisol, the stress hormone.
NEWBERG: The Cortisol is actually an immune suppressant, so if you diminish the Cortisol level then you can have an increase in the overall immune function, so that if we are thinking about something that makes us anxious, then we release the stress hormones. If we are doing something with meditation and prayer, then we stop releasing those stress hormones.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: So, doctors aren't ready to say take two prayers and call me in the morning, but there is evidence that prayer and mediation provides some benefits. Studies have shown that mediation reduces heart rate, lowers blood pressure, improves mild depression, and has long been used to ease anxiety. As for prayer, researchers found heart patients who were prayed for even without their knowledge, had fewer complications. And a Georgetown University study showed rheumatoid arthritis patients who were prayed for by volunteers experienced less pain and inflammation in their joints.
It's a really fascinating topic. We want hear your questions, we wan you to join our discussion by calling us: 1-800-807-2620. or e- mail us at housecall@cnn.com.
And, joining us to talk about this controversial and very interesting topic DR. Mehmet Oz, he's the director of the Cardiovascular Institute at Columbia University Medical School. He also, I should add, has a series on the "Discovery" channel that just started last month called "Second Opinion with Dr. Oz."
Welcome Doctor.
DR. MEHMET OZ, "DISCOVERY" CHANNEL: Great to be here, Sanjay.
GUPTA: You know, first before we get into this, I think it's sort of an interesting thing, you're a heart surgeon, and I'm a brain surgeon, sort of funny, we're sitting around on Sunday morning talking about the effects of prayer on medicine. How did you get into this?
OZ: Well, it's actually one of the reasons I made the "Discovery" show. You know, I spent my whole life dealing with end stage heart disease, people who are struggling just to -- trying to grip life as they look over the abyss into death. And as I replace those hearts with either transplants or even mechanical devices for their hearts, you realize there's more to healing than just fixing the heart. And the heart in particular is a great place to start because it's so important poetically; it's in all of our literature. We love people from the bottom of our hearts, cold hearts and brave hearts. So, you make the transition to fixing someone's heart and you don't deal with the wholeness of the individual, and you find that you haven't really brought them to the wellness that they want, that they crave. And, that's actually opened my eyes to the potential opportunities with alternative approaches, including meditation and even prayer.
GUPTA: Well, that is fascinating. Certainly a lot of philosophy in here, also some hard science too that we want to try and get to. Lots of people very interested in this, no surprise to you Dr. Oz. Let's go ahead and start bringing in some of our viewers. First, let's start with Rob from Florida who writes: "Are there studies that measured Cortisol level differences in people who pray daily and those who do not?"
A really specific question here, Dr. Oz, about the stress hormones.
OZ: Well, although we think the stress hormones, as you alluded to earlier, are very important in immune function and dealing with stress, the reality is that when we have tried to measure Cortisol levels in meditation studies in the catherization laboratory, people who are about to have something big done to their heart, it's very difficult to correlate that with recovery and wellness. Part of the reason is that Cortisol levels vary during the time of the day, so their early in the morning than they are late at night. And, also there are many other variables that impact, not just Cortisol, but also immune function. So, I don't think we're going to get this easy correlation there, as we would have hoped. But, we just finished a large trial in which Mitch Krucoff and the group at Duke called the "Mantra Trial," well we looked at prayer more globally and we've reproduced parts of the meditation aspect of that in our own institution at New York Presbyterian and in both cases, we found interesting trends. But, it's difficult to bring Western statistical technology -- techniques to some of these less obvious end modalities.
GUPTA: Talk about this mantra study a little bit more, what exactly were you trying to measure with this particular study?
OZ: In the mantra trial, we had 750 people who were randomized, which means they didn't know if they were getting prayer or not, and half the patients got some prayer combination and half did not. And actually, there was another group that got music and dotted imagery, and therapeutic touch. And, what we found was, the first cut, there were no statistically significant differences, which means to a scientist that there's at least more than a one in 20 chance that these results were not important. However, there were very important trends that were identified. In particular, the combination of prayer and music guided imagery, touch, trended towards an improved result. And, interestingly, something we didn't expect was some -- was augmented prayer. In other words, in addition to having Tibetan monks and Franciscan friars and fundamentalists and Sufi Muslims praying for you, if you have people praying for those people it seemed to have a trend towards changing your chance of surviving or being free of illness over a six-month period.
GUPTA: Wow.
OZ: And, these are the kinds of trends that are scary to Western minds as scientists, because remember, you and I grew up learning and studying as hard as we could, the traditional, conventional wisdom of Western medicine and to have our mind-set shifted to take us outside that comfort zone, to push us to look at a broad new vista of healing opportunities is scary to Western medicine.
GUPTA: Wow, and it's sort of mind blowing too, as we sit here and think about it. And, we're going to sort of break this down for all of our viewers at home with some real specifics. Let's bring in a phone caller, now.
Eric from Illinois. Good morning and welcome to HOUSE CALL, Eric.
ERIC, ILLINOIS: Good morning.
GUPTA: What's your question?
ERIC: My question is does praying or crystals or spirituality help in the recovery from anesthesia and surgery?
GUPTA: What do you say to that, Dr. Oz, just in the recovery period itself, now?
OZ: Well, although again, I can't say with 100 percent certainty that prayer or crystals or guided imaging can make a difference. I can say that anecdotally for our patients, it seems to help them enough that they're willing to use these therapies.
And part of the challenge here is separating the issue of god from the human spirit. Many people are understandably intimidated by the concept that I can get god to do a little extra for me if I pray to him or her. But, we move away from that personified concept of deity which is perfectly fine for many individuals, but intimidates others, to the broader topic of the human spirit. How much control do you have using your mind over your body? And equally importantly, perhaps -- How much help can you get from others, not just individuals, but congregations, from groups of people who care about you to recover from illness?
GUPTA: And...
OZ: And it pushes us again, to think differently about what causes illness. What one of the concerns raised in the Mantra Trial was what if people are praying for what's best for you rather than praying for you to live? For example, if you have metastatic cancer and are going to have a lot of pain and discomfort and lose your dignity as you die maybe the people praying for you are unwittingly are actually praying for you to exit this natural existence because it's in their belief system that you'll be more comfortable elsewhere.
GUPTA: We are talking to DR. Mehmet Oz, he's a heart surgeon up in New York. Lots of questions, lots of interest.
Up next: Would you want your doctor praying with you before or after surgery? Or how about being asked questions about your spirituality when you enter the hospital? Plus, could going to church help you live longer?
Give us a call, 1-800-807-2620, e-mail us at housecall@cnn.com.
But first before we go break, let's check our "Daily Dose Health Quiz."
How many Americans practice meditation?
Stay with us for the answer on WEEKEND HOUSE CALL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUPTA: Checking the "Daily Dose Health Quiz" now, we asked: How many Americans practice meditation? The answer: 10 million American adults say they practice some form of meditation on a regular basis.
Well, some doctors have started recommending meditation for their patients. Prayer is a more touchy subject, but even that is starting to change. A small number of physicians are starting to take spiritual histories from their patients. These histories include questions like: Do you rely on religion to cope? Are you a member of a spiritual community? These questions, some doctors argue, could help them to better understand and support their patients.
We're talking with DR. Mehmet Oz he's a cardiologist -- I'm sorry, cardiac surgeon -- got to get that right, at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital -- I know how important that is, in New York city.
Dr. Oz, really quick before we take some more calls here, a new poll out shows 61 percent of Americans would welcome a doctor taking their spiritual history. Do you think that taking a spiritual history helps or is that more of an invasion of privacy or does it matter at all, do you think?
OZ: Well, I think you have to do it delicately, but you should defiantly take the history. But, I do want to caution the viewers, that when we did a survey similar to this, at Columbia University, we found that only 17 percent of people were talking to their doctors about their use of alternative healing techniques and when we asked them if they wanted to talk to their physicians, only 37 percent said yes. So, I think the average American, actually, is concerned that his physician may not be the best person to talk to about these issues, and for that reason perhaps the pastoral care services that every hospital has should be used appropriately in this context, as well.
GUPTA: Sort of along those lines -- you know, one of the numbers that kind of really startled me was that 25 percent of people who -- I'm sorry, the people who go to church have a 25 percent reduction in mortality and that was after you controlled for things like social support and healthier lifestyles and things like that, which are more likened to people going to church. Are church-going people likely to live longer would you say?
OZ: Well, anecdotally it seems to be so. But, part of that may be the fact that you have a use in life. Remember, if you're fighting, trying to crawl back to normal existence from a serious illness, having a use, having a goal, having a reason for your heart to keep beating, may be one of the most profound reasons that you survive. And I know that both of, anecdotally, have seen that in our own practices, it's just hard to put numbers on that.
GUPTA: It's just fascinating to me and we're going to keep the discussion going, now. Welcome Ingrid from Illinois to WEEKEND HOUSE CALL.
Good morning Ingrid.
INGRID, ILLINOIS: Hi, good morning, Sanjay and Dr. Oz.
GUPTA: Good morning. What's your question?
INGRID: My question is: Given that we live in a fairly secular society, how likely do you think it is that mainstream doctors will start promoting religious or spiritual practices to their patients?
GUPTA: That's a great question. And, Dr. Oz, I -- sort of along those lines, what Ingrid is saying -- how have you been accepted among your fellow cardiac surgeons when you're talking about this sort of thing?
OZ: Well, Ingrid, I think you've hit on the main issue here, that we need to separate the connotation that is the fear that's associated with studying the work of god from the human spirit. As a scientist, what really interests me, is whether the human spirit can go beyond what we appreciate through our natural eyes? And with regard to my colleagues, I think many of them share the thought process that if you can identify previously unexplainable reasons why some survive and some people don't after major trauma and surgery, then you're on to a healing technique that could be life saving for many. So, it's not so much a fear of whether god should play a role in the hospital. Is there something out there in the spirit, in the prayers that we use, that could help man. And frankly, even if they're JuJu beans, it won't matter to most doctors. They'll want to use those tools.
GUPTA: All right, sort of similar question to what we were just talking about, now Dave from Kentucky talking again about, "Do people who are active in church tend to have a longer life expectancy?"
I know you've talked about this a little bit. And, maybe we can sort of talk a little bit about the scientific basis for it again. Are there some changes that you actually see beyond the fact that it gives them a will to live?
OZ: Well, prayer seems to influence people in a variety of different ways. The reason we did the Mantra Trial was to identify whether these changes are independent of what we think. But, just to give you an example, the initial pilot data for the Mantra Trial showed that about 40 percent of people where thought they were being prayed for already. Five years later, again this is after September 11 when the trial was being conducted in earnest, about 85 percent of people thought they were being prayed for. So, the average person thinks it makes a difference to them and that in itself may influence the outcomes of patients, because a third of all the results that we see in medicine are the placebo effect. But, I do think above and beyond that, there's an energy level that each of us has. In fact, the individual cells in our bodies are defined as being alive because they can maintain those energy gradients. I think spirit and the energy that's within it probably influences our energy, and although other parts of the world may be more ready to accept this, in the West, we have -- we are still challenged. But, this is probably the globalization of medicine we're witnessing.
GUPTA: Yeah.
OZ: You know, you're watched over the world, CNN is in every home, it's a global media network, but medicine is a remarkably provincial process. The globalization of medicine is the incorporation of other healing traditions, which includes prayer and energies therapies from other parts of the world.
GUPTA: And, it's people like you are sort of leading that charge. A cardiac surgeon, DR. Mehmet Oz is with us.
Sarah from Missouri, welcome to WEEKEND HOUSE CALL, good morning.
SARAH, MISSOURI: Good morning. I have seizure disorder and I am starting to have migraines, now, brought on by that, and I just wondered if meditation would help my migraines.
GUPTA: So, this is more of a specific problem, now Dr. Oz, a seizure disorder and meditation. Do you know anything about that?
OZ: I'm not sure if meditation has been showed in a randomized trial to be beneficial for seizure disorders, but meditation has been used successfully in trials to treat a whole variety of ailments, including psoriasis, a skin ailment, that you would not think so readily amenable to it. So, I'm more and more impressed at the power that meditation has. I do want to emphasize that a lot of times the benefit of meditation is improving your quality of life, not necessarily improving the longevity of your life. So, for example, your seizures may continue to exist, but they just may not bother you as much if you can use meditation.
GUPTA: OK, Dr. Oz, one quick question about you. Do you pray with your patients? Do you pray with them before an operation?
OZ: I don't pray in the conventional sense of the word. I pray for them using my own spiritual biases, but I wouldn't want to burden my patients with my internal beliefs of the role of my spirit in helping them...
GUPTA: OK, Dr. Oz, I must interrupt you for one second. We're going to go to Renay, now for some breaking news, over to you, Renay.
(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUPTA: When polls asked if people believe their personal religious faith can have a positive effect on their recovery, an overwhelming majority said yes -- 89 percent. That's what the people say. Welcome back. We're talking about spirituality and your health with DR. Mehmet Oz. He is a heart surgeon up in New York. He also has a show on the "Discovery" channel.
Thank you for joining us. There's lot of interesting questions, here. The medical profession seems to have paid attention to people's beliefs and the studies we've been talking about. The majority of medical schools now offering courses, as well, on spirituality and health, which I think is interesting, Dr. Oz, because you were talking about this globalization of medicine, that may start at the educational level. You're up at Columbia, do they offer such a program?
OZ: Well, like many medical schools, we don't have a formal course in alternative or integrative therapies, but we have a club and seminars that we give monthly. In fact, I give the inaugural one most years. And, it seeks to enlighten the students to think differently about wellness -- you know, we go into this fairly rigid structure of medical school, but when we leave medical school, we often find our patients don't read the same books that we did, and that's part of the goal of using the integrated medicine courses and seminars.
GUPTA: What about -- you know, doctors who are practicing out there, now? A lot of people watching the show this morning, now certainly you learn these things in medical school, but you get to busy your day-to-day life as a doctor, you're so much focused on the science and the clinical outcomes -- how do you -- how do you get people to also incorporate some of these -- some of these other concepts, some of the concepts that may be considered more religious or spiritual into their practice?
OZ: The word "doctor" comes from the Latin word for teacher, and like any teacher/pupil relationship, it is a two-way street and I learn much from my patients especially about these topics, so I encourage viewers to talk openly with their physicians about this and actually push their doctors a little bit to open up about integrative therapies including, prayer and meditation. And, most hospitals now, in this country are considering having programs to support their patients, about 14 percent have actually have formal programs, as we do, that allow specialists in meditation and prayer and guided imagery, to help patients to all these techniques. Again, today you have to become the world expert on your health. That's the whole point of my show "Second Opinion" is to get people comfortable in their own skin to take care of the most precious recourse they have: Their own bodies.
GUPTA: And, people taking charge of their own health a little bit.
Let's keep on that theme here, with an e-mail. Clyde form Texas asking: "Is quality medical care the controlling factor of one's health? Or is maintenance of one's health and a combination of mental attitude and medical care?"
It's a combination of things, I imagine. I think that's what you've been saying all along, here. OZ: Well, you want to be an informed user of the health care system, for sure. You want to know which doctors to go to for what problems. But, you can't walk in blindly. The same skill sets that you use day-to-day to get you though life are also applicable in medicine. So, I think actually the latter hypothesis is the right one, that it's a preventative, it's being in charge of the small things in your life, the activity level you have, the diet you use, your spiritual outlook. These are more important predictors of wellness. But, you need that stopgap measure of medical care when you get sick and you need to know how to use that.
GUPTA: OK, and Dr. Oz, a really interesting show. We got a little bit shortchanged in our time today, because of breaking news, but a really fascinating topic. Hopefully we'll get a chance to have you back on the show to talk about this some more. Thank you.
OZ: I was honored to be here. Thank you so much.
GUPTA: Thank you.
And, thanks to our viewers at home, as well. That's all the time we have for today. Make sure to watch us next weekend, as well. We're going to talking -- looking at the fountain of youth. Saturday's show is going to focus on at the latest procedures for helping you stay looking young, and Sunday we're going to talk about how to live to be 100 feeling young all along. Which is your fountain of youth? Find that out next weekend, that's 8:30 Eastern on Saturday and Sunday mornings.
Thanks for watching, I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta. "CNN Sunday Morning" starts right now after a look at this week's medical headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (voice-over): This week's top stories "For Your Health": The Cipher a popular new drug coated heart stent may be causing deaths, says the FDA. It's reported that more than 60 patients have died as a result of blood clots forming around the device. The FDA stresses it's still unsure if the Cipher is causing more clots than a normal unmedicated stent. Heart stents are used to keep arteries in the heart from clogging.
Also, a new study claims that Celebrex, a popular arthritis drug, may help prevent breast cancer. Researchers in the study say that Celebrex, unlike current breast cancer prevention drugs, can be taken by women who hope to become pregnant in the future.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 2, 2003 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning and welcome to WEEKEND HOUSE CALL. We're looking at a very interesting topic this morning: Spirituality and your health. New numbers out just this morning show the majority of those polled, about 63 percent, think there is a place for medicine and spirituality. While just 28 percent said that the two should be kept separate. Now, whether you're into meditation, positive thinking, or prayer, new studies show it can have a positive effect on your health.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The benefit behind cultivating Buddha Gita...
GUPTA (voice-over): Eastern meditation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
GUPTA: Or western prayer. You may be looking at the next fitness craze.
ANDREW NEWBERG, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: The mind and the body are very intimately interconnected.
GUPTA: Dr. Andrew Newberg, a radiologist at the University of Pennsylvania studies what happens inside the brain when you enter the spiritual realm.
Using a radioactive dye that targets brain activity, he scans the brains of his subjects to see what happens before meditation or prayer, then during the act.
NEWBERG: Then what we do -- we're going to do is we're going to slide you in here.
GUPTA: So what happens? Activity in the frontal lobe goes up while the area that gives us a sense of self, separate from the outside world, well that goes quiet. In these brain scans, red signals for activity, green and yellow less. The brain on the left is a Franciscan nun in a normal state of mind, on the right after 30 minutes of intense prayer.
NEWBERG: They may begin to lose that boundary between themselves and the world. They may have a feeling of oneness between themselves and the world. GUPTA: Another key finding, meditation seems to trigger changes in the hypothalamus which governs heart rate, blood pressure, and hormones like Cortisol, the stress hormone.
NEWBERG: The Cortisol is actually an immune suppressant, so if you diminish the Cortisol level then you can have an increase in the overall immune function, so that if we are thinking about something that makes us anxious, then we release the stress hormones. If we are doing something with meditation and prayer, then we stop releasing those stress hormones.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: So, doctors aren't ready to say take two prayers and call me in the morning, but there is evidence that prayer and mediation provides some benefits. Studies have shown that mediation reduces heart rate, lowers blood pressure, improves mild depression, and has long been used to ease anxiety. As for prayer, researchers found heart patients who were prayed for even without their knowledge, had fewer complications. And a Georgetown University study showed rheumatoid arthritis patients who were prayed for by volunteers experienced less pain and inflammation in their joints.
It's a really fascinating topic. We want hear your questions, we wan you to join our discussion by calling us: 1-800-807-2620. or e- mail us at housecall@cnn.com.
And, joining us to talk about this controversial and very interesting topic DR. Mehmet Oz, he's the director of the Cardiovascular Institute at Columbia University Medical School. He also, I should add, has a series on the "Discovery" channel that just started last month called "Second Opinion with Dr. Oz."
Welcome Doctor.
DR. MEHMET OZ, "DISCOVERY" CHANNEL: Great to be here, Sanjay.
GUPTA: You know, first before we get into this, I think it's sort of an interesting thing, you're a heart surgeon, and I'm a brain surgeon, sort of funny, we're sitting around on Sunday morning talking about the effects of prayer on medicine. How did you get into this?
OZ: Well, it's actually one of the reasons I made the "Discovery" show. You know, I spent my whole life dealing with end stage heart disease, people who are struggling just to -- trying to grip life as they look over the abyss into death. And as I replace those hearts with either transplants or even mechanical devices for their hearts, you realize there's more to healing than just fixing the heart. And the heart in particular is a great place to start because it's so important poetically; it's in all of our literature. We love people from the bottom of our hearts, cold hearts and brave hearts. So, you make the transition to fixing someone's heart and you don't deal with the wholeness of the individual, and you find that you haven't really brought them to the wellness that they want, that they crave. And, that's actually opened my eyes to the potential opportunities with alternative approaches, including meditation and even prayer.
GUPTA: Well, that is fascinating. Certainly a lot of philosophy in here, also some hard science too that we want to try and get to. Lots of people very interested in this, no surprise to you Dr. Oz. Let's go ahead and start bringing in some of our viewers. First, let's start with Rob from Florida who writes: "Are there studies that measured Cortisol level differences in people who pray daily and those who do not?"
A really specific question here, Dr. Oz, about the stress hormones.
OZ: Well, although we think the stress hormones, as you alluded to earlier, are very important in immune function and dealing with stress, the reality is that when we have tried to measure Cortisol levels in meditation studies in the catherization laboratory, people who are about to have something big done to their heart, it's very difficult to correlate that with recovery and wellness. Part of the reason is that Cortisol levels vary during the time of the day, so their early in the morning than they are late at night. And, also there are many other variables that impact, not just Cortisol, but also immune function. So, I don't think we're going to get this easy correlation there, as we would have hoped. But, we just finished a large trial in which Mitch Krucoff and the group at Duke called the "Mantra Trial," well we looked at prayer more globally and we've reproduced parts of the meditation aspect of that in our own institution at New York Presbyterian and in both cases, we found interesting trends. But, it's difficult to bring Western statistical technology -- techniques to some of these less obvious end modalities.
GUPTA: Talk about this mantra study a little bit more, what exactly were you trying to measure with this particular study?
OZ: In the mantra trial, we had 750 people who were randomized, which means they didn't know if they were getting prayer or not, and half the patients got some prayer combination and half did not. And actually, there was another group that got music and dotted imagery, and therapeutic touch. And, what we found was, the first cut, there were no statistically significant differences, which means to a scientist that there's at least more than a one in 20 chance that these results were not important. However, there were very important trends that were identified. In particular, the combination of prayer and music guided imagery, touch, trended towards an improved result. And, interestingly, something we didn't expect was some -- was augmented prayer. In other words, in addition to having Tibetan monks and Franciscan friars and fundamentalists and Sufi Muslims praying for you, if you have people praying for those people it seemed to have a trend towards changing your chance of surviving or being free of illness over a six-month period.
GUPTA: Wow.
OZ: And, these are the kinds of trends that are scary to Western minds as scientists, because remember, you and I grew up learning and studying as hard as we could, the traditional, conventional wisdom of Western medicine and to have our mind-set shifted to take us outside that comfort zone, to push us to look at a broad new vista of healing opportunities is scary to Western medicine.
GUPTA: Wow, and it's sort of mind blowing too, as we sit here and think about it. And, we're going to sort of break this down for all of our viewers at home with some real specifics. Let's bring in a phone caller, now.
Eric from Illinois. Good morning and welcome to HOUSE CALL, Eric.
ERIC, ILLINOIS: Good morning.
GUPTA: What's your question?
ERIC: My question is does praying or crystals or spirituality help in the recovery from anesthesia and surgery?
GUPTA: What do you say to that, Dr. Oz, just in the recovery period itself, now?
OZ: Well, although again, I can't say with 100 percent certainty that prayer or crystals or guided imaging can make a difference. I can say that anecdotally for our patients, it seems to help them enough that they're willing to use these therapies.
And part of the challenge here is separating the issue of god from the human spirit. Many people are understandably intimidated by the concept that I can get god to do a little extra for me if I pray to him or her. But, we move away from that personified concept of deity which is perfectly fine for many individuals, but intimidates others, to the broader topic of the human spirit. How much control do you have using your mind over your body? And equally importantly, perhaps -- How much help can you get from others, not just individuals, but congregations, from groups of people who care about you to recover from illness?
GUPTA: And...
OZ: And it pushes us again, to think differently about what causes illness. What one of the concerns raised in the Mantra Trial was what if people are praying for what's best for you rather than praying for you to live? For example, if you have metastatic cancer and are going to have a lot of pain and discomfort and lose your dignity as you die maybe the people praying for you are unwittingly are actually praying for you to exit this natural existence because it's in their belief system that you'll be more comfortable elsewhere.
GUPTA: We are talking to DR. Mehmet Oz, he's a heart surgeon up in New York. Lots of questions, lots of interest.
Up next: Would you want your doctor praying with you before or after surgery? Or how about being asked questions about your spirituality when you enter the hospital? Plus, could going to church help you live longer?
Give us a call, 1-800-807-2620, e-mail us at housecall@cnn.com.
But first before we go break, let's check our "Daily Dose Health Quiz."
How many Americans practice meditation?
Stay with us for the answer on WEEKEND HOUSE CALL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUPTA: Checking the "Daily Dose Health Quiz" now, we asked: How many Americans practice meditation? The answer: 10 million American adults say they practice some form of meditation on a regular basis.
Well, some doctors have started recommending meditation for their patients. Prayer is a more touchy subject, but even that is starting to change. A small number of physicians are starting to take spiritual histories from their patients. These histories include questions like: Do you rely on religion to cope? Are you a member of a spiritual community? These questions, some doctors argue, could help them to better understand and support their patients.
We're talking with DR. Mehmet Oz he's a cardiologist -- I'm sorry, cardiac surgeon -- got to get that right, at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital -- I know how important that is, in New York city.
Dr. Oz, really quick before we take some more calls here, a new poll out shows 61 percent of Americans would welcome a doctor taking their spiritual history. Do you think that taking a spiritual history helps or is that more of an invasion of privacy or does it matter at all, do you think?
OZ: Well, I think you have to do it delicately, but you should defiantly take the history. But, I do want to caution the viewers, that when we did a survey similar to this, at Columbia University, we found that only 17 percent of people were talking to their doctors about their use of alternative healing techniques and when we asked them if they wanted to talk to their physicians, only 37 percent said yes. So, I think the average American, actually, is concerned that his physician may not be the best person to talk to about these issues, and for that reason perhaps the pastoral care services that every hospital has should be used appropriately in this context, as well.
GUPTA: Sort of along those lines -- you know, one of the numbers that kind of really startled me was that 25 percent of people who -- I'm sorry, the people who go to church have a 25 percent reduction in mortality and that was after you controlled for things like social support and healthier lifestyles and things like that, which are more likened to people going to church. Are church-going people likely to live longer would you say?
OZ: Well, anecdotally it seems to be so. But, part of that may be the fact that you have a use in life. Remember, if you're fighting, trying to crawl back to normal existence from a serious illness, having a use, having a goal, having a reason for your heart to keep beating, may be one of the most profound reasons that you survive. And I know that both of, anecdotally, have seen that in our own practices, it's just hard to put numbers on that.
GUPTA: It's just fascinating to me and we're going to keep the discussion going, now. Welcome Ingrid from Illinois to WEEKEND HOUSE CALL.
Good morning Ingrid.
INGRID, ILLINOIS: Hi, good morning, Sanjay and Dr. Oz.
GUPTA: Good morning. What's your question?
INGRID: My question is: Given that we live in a fairly secular society, how likely do you think it is that mainstream doctors will start promoting religious or spiritual practices to their patients?
GUPTA: That's a great question. And, Dr. Oz, I -- sort of along those lines, what Ingrid is saying -- how have you been accepted among your fellow cardiac surgeons when you're talking about this sort of thing?
OZ: Well, Ingrid, I think you've hit on the main issue here, that we need to separate the connotation that is the fear that's associated with studying the work of god from the human spirit. As a scientist, what really interests me, is whether the human spirit can go beyond what we appreciate through our natural eyes? And with regard to my colleagues, I think many of them share the thought process that if you can identify previously unexplainable reasons why some survive and some people don't after major trauma and surgery, then you're on to a healing technique that could be life saving for many. So, it's not so much a fear of whether god should play a role in the hospital. Is there something out there in the spirit, in the prayers that we use, that could help man. And frankly, even if they're JuJu beans, it won't matter to most doctors. They'll want to use those tools.
GUPTA: All right, sort of similar question to what we were just talking about, now Dave from Kentucky talking again about, "Do people who are active in church tend to have a longer life expectancy?"
I know you've talked about this a little bit. And, maybe we can sort of talk a little bit about the scientific basis for it again. Are there some changes that you actually see beyond the fact that it gives them a will to live?
OZ: Well, prayer seems to influence people in a variety of different ways. The reason we did the Mantra Trial was to identify whether these changes are independent of what we think. But, just to give you an example, the initial pilot data for the Mantra Trial showed that about 40 percent of people where thought they were being prayed for already. Five years later, again this is after September 11 when the trial was being conducted in earnest, about 85 percent of people thought they were being prayed for. So, the average person thinks it makes a difference to them and that in itself may influence the outcomes of patients, because a third of all the results that we see in medicine are the placebo effect. But, I do think above and beyond that, there's an energy level that each of us has. In fact, the individual cells in our bodies are defined as being alive because they can maintain those energy gradients. I think spirit and the energy that's within it probably influences our energy, and although other parts of the world may be more ready to accept this, in the West, we have -- we are still challenged. But, this is probably the globalization of medicine we're witnessing.
GUPTA: Yeah.
OZ: You know, you're watched over the world, CNN is in every home, it's a global media network, but medicine is a remarkably provincial process. The globalization of medicine is the incorporation of other healing traditions, which includes prayer and energies therapies from other parts of the world.
GUPTA: And, it's people like you are sort of leading that charge. A cardiac surgeon, DR. Mehmet Oz is with us.
Sarah from Missouri, welcome to WEEKEND HOUSE CALL, good morning.
SARAH, MISSOURI: Good morning. I have seizure disorder and I am starting to have migraines, now, brought on by that, and I just wondered if meditation would help my migraines.
GUPTA: So, this is more of a specific problem, now Dr. Oz, a seizure disorder and meditation. Do you know anything about that?
OZ: I'm not sure if meditation has been showed in a randomized trial to be beneficial for seizure disorders, but meditation has been used successfully in trials to treat a whole variety of ailments, including psoriasis, a skin ailment, that you would not think so readily amenable to it. So, I'm more and more impressed at the power that meditation has. I do want to emphasize that a lot of times the benefit of meditation is improving your quality of life, not necessarily improving the longevity of your life. So, for example, your seizures may continue to exist, but they just may not bother you as much if you can use meditation.
GUPTA: OK, Dr. Oz, one quick question about you. Do you pray with your patients? Do you pray with them before an operation?
OZ: I don't pray in the conventional sense of the word. I pray for them using my own spiritual biases, but I wouldn't want to burden my patients with my internal beliefs of the role of my spirit in helping them...
GUPTA: OK, Dr. Oz, I must interrupt you for one second. We're going to go to Renay, now for some breaking news, over to you, Renay.
(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUPTA: When polls asked if people believe their personal religious faith can have a positive effect on their recovery, an overwhelming majority said yes -- 89 percent. That's what the people say. Welcome back. We're talking about spirituality and your health with DR. Mehmet Oz. He is a heart surgeon up in New York. He also has a show on the "Discovery" channel.
Thank you for joining us. There's lot of interesting questions, here. The medical profession seems to have paid attention to people's beliefs and the studies we've been talking about. The majority of medical schools now offering courses, as well, on spirituality and health, which I think is interesting, Dr. Oz, because you were talking about this globalization of medicine, that may start at the educational level. You're up at Columbia, do they offer such a program?
OZ: Well, like many medical schools, we don't have a formal course in alternative or integrative therapies, but we have a club and seminars that we give monthly. In fact, I give the inaugural one most years. And, it seeks to enlighten the students to think differently about wellness -- you know, we go into this fairly rigid structure of medical school, but when we leave medical school, we often find our patients don't read the same books that we did, and that's part of the goal of using the integrated medicine courses and seminars.
GUPTA: What about -- you know, doctors who are practicing out there, now? A lot of people watching the show this morning, now certainly you learn these things in medical school, but you get to busy your day-to-day life as a doctor, you're so much focused on the science and the clinical outcomes -- how do you -- how do you get people to also incorporate some of these -- some of these other concepts, some of the concepts that may be considered more religious or spiritual into their practice?
OZ: The word "doctor" comes from the Latin word for teacher, and like any teacher/pupil relationship, it is a two-way street and I learn much from my patients especially about these topics, so I encourage viewers to talk openly with their physicians about this and actually push their doctors a little bit to open up about integrative therapies including, prayer and meditation. And, most hospitals now, in this country are considering having programs to support their patients, about 14 percent have actually have formal programs, as we do, that allow specialists in meditation and prayer and guided imagery, to help patients to all these techniques. Again, today you have to become the world expert on your health. That's the whole point of my show "Second Opinion" is to get people comfortable in their own skin to take care of the most precious recourse they have: Their own bodies.
GUPTA: And, people taking charge of their own health a little bit.
Let's keep on that theme here, with an e-mail. Clyde form Texas asking: "Is quality medical care the controlling factor of one's health? Or is maintenance of one's health and a combination of mental attitude and medical care?"
It's a combination of things, I imagine. I think that's what you've been saying all along, here. OZ: Well, you want to be an informed user of the health care system, for sure. You want to know which doctors to go to for what problems. But, you can't walk in blindly. The same skill sets that you use day-to-day to get you though life are also applicable in medicine. So, I think actually the latter hypothesis is the right one, that it's a preventative, it's being in charge of the small things in your life, the activity level you have, the diet you use, your spiritual outlook. These are more important predictors of wellness. But, you need that stopgap measure of medical care when you get sick and you need to know how to use that.
GUPTA: OK, and Dr. Oz, a really interesting show. We got a little bit shortchanged in our time today, because of breaking news, but a really fascinating topic. Hopefully we'll get a chance to have you back on the show to talk about this some more. Thank you.
OZ: I was honored to be here. Thank you so much.
GUPTA: Thank you.
And, thanks to our viewers at home, as well. That's all the time we have for today. Make sure to watch us next weekend, as well. We're going to talking -- looking at the fountain of youth. Saturday's show is going to focus on at the latest procedures for helping you stay looking young, and Sunday we're going to talk about how to live to be 100 feeling young all along. Which is your fountain of youth? Find that out next weekend, that's 8:30 Eastern on Saturday and Sunday mornings.
Thanks for watching, I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta. "CNN Sunday Morning" starts right now after a look at this week's medical headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (voice-over): This week's top stories "For Your Health": The Cipher a popular new drug coated heart stent may be causing deaths, says the FDA. It's reported that more than 60 patients have died as a result of blood clots forming around the device. The FDA stresses it's still unsure if the Cipher is causing more clots than a normal unmedicated stent. Heart stents are used to keep arteries in the heart from clogging.
Also, a new study claims that Celebrex, a popular arthritis drug, may help prevent breast cancer. Researchers in the study say that Celebrex, unlike current breast cancer prevention drugs, can be taken by women who hope to become pregnant in the future.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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