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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Robert Thompson

Aired November 09, 2003 - 09:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Art imitating life. It seems to be all over television these days. And as CNN's Miguel Marquez reports, the line between what is real and what is not is blurred.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, TV MOVIE ON PRIVATE JESSICA LYNCH: We're trapped. Oh, my god.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Easy, private.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, TV MOVIE ON ELIZABETH SMART: I want my mom and dad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They no longer exist.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are three docu-dramas ripped from the headlines based on a body of fact and dressed up as drama.

BRIAN LOWRY, "VARIETY": Docu-dramas have always mixed fact with created scenes and fictionalized scenes to create a compelling drama.

MARQUEZ: But creating a compelling drama can create dramatics of its own. CBS pulled its network airing of "The Reagans" and opted to run it on its sister cable network, Showtime, after conservatives protective of President Reagan's legacy questioned, among other things, the production's slant over who really controlled the Reagan White House.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, "THE REAGANS": And from now on, you just don't call the president to tell him what's happening. You call me.

LOWRY: There have been all kinds of movies about politicians from "JFK: Reckless Youth" to "LBJ: The Early Years," which bend facts and fiction.

MARQUEZ: So why all the sensitivity over Reagan?

JOYCE APPLEBY, UCLA: We have got all these memories, and that's one of the reasons you have a struggle over something like the Reagan miniseries, because if you are a certain age, you have lots of memories.

MARQUEZ: Joyce Appleby, a UCLA history professor, says docu- dramas can be credible, historical representations. But when the history is so fresh in so many memories, the question becomes, who gets to decide what history is?

APPLEBY: In representing the past, you are also interpreting the past. I think there's a belief abroad in the land that the past left traces that we can go back to and get it like a motion picture. And we can't.

MARQUEZ: Another problem, says Appleby, the former president is still alive. And because he suffers from Alzheimer's, he can't defend himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, TV MOVIE ABOUT ELIZABETH SMART: There's no evidence my daughter is dead.

MARQUEZ: But even cases like kidnap victim Elizabeth Smart, where the subject of history is alive and well, questions remain.

LOWRY: the Elizabeth smart movie is a pretty shoddy production, very much seen through the prism of Lois and Ed Smart, who sold their rights for the film.

MARQUEZ: And finally, with so many versions, picking any one leaves out all the rest. NBC's "Saving Jessica Lynch" is told from the perspective of an Iraqi lawyer.

LOWRY: She has a minor presence in the movie that bears her name.

MARQUEZ (on camera): One history sure to repeat itself, if enough people watch fictionalized fact, more reality-based drama will be back for the next ratings season.

Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: We want to talk more now about these docu-dramas. Here to guide us through the discussion, Robert Thompson, a professor of Media and Popular Culture at Syracuse University, and director of that school's Center for the Study of Popular TV.

Mr. Thompson, thanks for being with us today.

ROBERT THOMPSON, PROFESSOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

SAN MIGUEL: You know, TV already does a pretty good job or has done a pretty good job in the past in turning news events into movies very quickly. But it appears that land speed records were broken with this Elizabeth Smart and Jessica Lynch movies. Does that surprise you, or just more of the same?

THOMPSON: Well, it doesn't. It is more of the same.

We had the Martha Stewart playing right in the midst of that story. As I recall, the compound of David Koresh was still smoking when we saw the TV movie of that. And my favorite example of this was the Amy Fisher story, which gave us not one, not two, but three made- for-TV movies pretty quickly.

However, the turnover time is getting pretty fast now. And I think that's got to do with the fact that the news cycle now puts such value into these stories; 24-hour cable news has really allowed these stories to become absolutely and totally penetrating the culture. And what happens is the entertainers want to cash in on that before people forget.

These are drive-by made-for-TV movies. They are done fast and furiously.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, but maybe in terms of the Elizabeth Smart and Jessica Lynch movies, maybe a new level of literary license may be achieved here, because both movies are, from what I understand, are not going to be talking about the more difficult parts of the ordeals that those two young ladies had to go through. In the Lynch case, the information that's coming out in the new book this week is not in the movie. It is told from the Iraqi lawyer's point of view who helped with the rescues.

And the Smarts, understandably, are not talking about everything that their daughter went through. So I'm wondering if you're going to be noticing a new level of literary license with these particular movies.

THOMPSON: Well, I think so. I mean, part of it is that so many of these stories are being told while we are still in the midst of them. You could not possibly make a responsible historical document in this case because so much information is still not in.

So they want to use the brand name of Jessica Lynch or Elizabeth Smart, but they can't, of course tell the whole story, because it's not here yet. Anybody who, in fact, wants to watch a docu-drama and get their history is making a big mistake. These things always make up dialogue, they always have to fill in blanks, and they always have to be from a point of view.

SAN MIGUEL: And that leads to my next question about the Reagan miniseries. Moved to Showtime because CBS executives said it was not balanced. Are audiences really expecting balance and accuracy with some of these docudramas?

THOMPSON: Well, I don't know if they're expecting it. I don't know where they started expecting it, because they were never really -- these things were never really balanced in the first place. I think some of the people who are beginning to complain about these things are beginning to apply the criteria of journalism and biography and history, and they're always going to be disappointed.

But we shouldn't be expecting balance and accuracy in a lot of this stuff because we really have never gotten it. Which, by the way, isn't to say there have not been some great docu-dramas. "Band of Brothers" on HBO was a wonderful telling of that story. But let's face it, they made up dialogue, they filled in blanks, they dramatized it. That was fiction based upon some factual people and some factual events. SAN MIGUEL: And those factual people actually cooperated with some of the storytellers in that case, right?

THOMPSON: That's right. And, you know, I think a docu-drama can have an advantage as long as you read your history, as long as you're seeing good journalism. The thing a docu-drama does that no history book can do is give you the visceral feeling of an event.

"Pearl Harbor" the movie was filled with historical inventions, but no history book could give you that feeling of what it was like to be on the ground when those airplanes started coming in on Sunday morning. These things are not of no value whatsoever. We simply have to remember what they are and not expect them to do what they can't do.

SAN MIGUEL: We would love to talk more about this, but we are out of time. Dr. Robert Thompson, Syracuse University, thank so you much for your insight. We do appreciate it.

THOMPSON: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 9, 2003 - 09:20   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Art imitating life. It seems to be all over television these days. And as CNN's Miguel Marquez reports, the line between what is real and what is not is blurred.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, TV MOVIE ON PRIVATE JESSICA LYNCH: We're trapped. Oh, my god.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Easy, private.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, TV MOVIE ON ELIZABETH SMART: I want my mom and dad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They no longer exist.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are three docu-dramas ripped from the headlines based on a body of fact and dressed up as drama.

BRIAN LOWRY, "VARIETY": Docu-dramas have always mixed fact with created scenes and fictionalized scenes to create a compelling drama.

MARQUEZ: But creating a compelling drama can create dramatics of its own. CBS pulled its network airing of "The Reagans" and opted to run it on its sister cable network, Showtime, after conservatives protective of President Reagan's legacy questioned, among other things, the production's slant over who really controlled the Reagan White House.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, "THE REAGANS": And from now on, you just don't call the president to tell him what's happening. You call me.

LOWRY: There have been all kinds of movies about politicians from "JFK: Reckless Youth" to "LBJ: The Early Years," which bend facts and fiction.

MARQUEZ: So why all the sensitivity over Reagan?

JOYCE APPLEBY, UCLA: We have got all these memories, and that's one of the reasons you have a struggle over something like the Reagan miniseries, because if you are a certain age, you have lots of memories.

MARQUEZ: Joyce Appleby, a UCLA history professor, says docu- dramas can be credible, historical representations. But when the history is so fresh in so many memories, the question becomes, who gets to decide what history is?

APPLEBY: In representing the past, you are also interpreting the past. I think there's a belief abroad in the land that the past left traces that we can go back to and get it like a motion picture. And we can't.

MARQUEZ: Another problem, says Appleby, the former president is still alive. And because he suffers from Alzheimer's, he can't defend himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, TV MOVIE ABOUT ELIZABETH SMART: There's no evidence my daughter is dead.

MARQUEZ: But even cases like kidnap victim Elizabeth Smart, where the subject of history is alive and well, questions remain.

LOWRY: the Elizabeth smart movie is a pretty shoddy production, very much seen through the prism of Lois and Ed Smart, who sold their rights for the film.

MARQUEZ: And finally, with so many versions, picking any one leaves out all the rest. NBC's "Saving Jessica Lynch" is told from the perspective of an Iraqi lawyer.

LOWRY: She has a minor presence in the movie that bears her name.

MARQUEZ (on camera): One history sure to repeat itself, if enough people watch fictionalized fact, more reality-based drama will be back for the next ratings season.

Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: We want to talk more now about these docu-dramas. Here to guide us through the discussion, Robert Thompson, a professor of Media and Popular Culture at Syracuse University, and director of that school's Center for the Study of Popular TV.

Mr. Thompson, thanks for being with us today.

ROBERT THOMPSON, PROFESSOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

SAN MIGUEL: You know, TV already does a pretty good job or has done a pretty good job in the past in turning news events into movies very quickly. But it appears that land speed records were broken with this Elizabeth Smart and Jessica Lynch movies. Does that surprise you, or just more of the same?

THOMPSON: Well, it doesn't. It is more of the same.

We had the Martha Stewart playing right in the midst of that story. As I recall, the compound of David Koresh was still smoking when we saw the TV movie of that. And my favorite example of this was the Amy Fisher story, which gave us not one, not two, but three made- for-TV movies pretty quickly.

However, the turnover time is getting pretty fast now. And I think that's got to do with the fact that the news cycle now puts such value into these stories; 24-hour cable news has really allowed these stories to become absolutely and totally penetrating the culture. And what happens is the entertainers want to cash in on that before people forget.

These are drive-by made-for-TV movies. They are done fast and furiously.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, but maybe in terms of the Elizabeth Smart and Jessica Lynch movies, maybe a new level of literary license may be achieved here, because both movies are, from what I understand, are not going to be talking about the more difficult parts of the ordeals that those two young ladies had to go through. In the Lynch case, the information that's coming out in the new book this week is not in the movie. It is told from the Iraqi lawyer's point of view who helped with the rescues.

And the Smarts, understandably, are not talking about everything that their daughter went through. So I'm wondering if you're going to be noticing a new level of literary license with these particular movies.

THOMPSON: Well, I think so. I mean, part of it is that so many of these stories are being told while we are still in the midst of them. You could not possibly make a responsible historical document in this case because so much information is still not in.

So they want to use the brand name of Jessica Lynch or Elizabeth Smart, but they can't, of course tell the whole story, because it's not here yet. Anybody who, in fact, wants to watch a docu-drama and get their history is making a big mistake. These things always make up dialogue, they always have to fill in blanks, and they always have to be from a point of view.

SAN MIGUEL: And that leads to my next question about the Reagan miniseries. Moved to Showtime because CBS executives said it was not balanced. Are audiences really expecting balance and accuracy with some of these docudramas?

THOMPSON: Well, I don't know if they're expecting it. I don't know where they started expecting it, because they were never really -- these things were never really balanced in the first place. I think some of the people who are beginning to complain about these things are beginning to apply the criteria of journalism and biography and history, and they're always going to be disappointed.

But we shouldn't be expecting balance and accuracy in a lot of this stuff because we really have never gotten it. Which, by the way, isn't to say there have not been some great docu-dramas. "Band of Brothers" on HBO was a wonderful telling of that story. But let's face it, they made up dialogue, they filled in blanks, they dramatized it. That was fiction based upon some factual people and some factual events. SAN MIGUEL: And those factual people actually cooperated with some of the storytellers in that case, right?

THOMPSON: That's right. And, you know, I think a docu-drama can have an advantage as long as you read your history, as long as you're seeing good journalism. The thing a docu-drama does that no history book can do is give you the visceral feeling of an event.

"Pearl Harbor" the movie was filled with historical inventions, but no history book could give you that feeling of what it was like to be on the ground when those airplanes started coming in on Sunday morning. These things are not of no value whatsoever. We simply have to remember what they are and not expect them to do what they can't do.

SAN MIGUEL: We would love to talk more about this, but we are out of time. Dr. Robert Thompson, Syracuse University, thank so you much for your insight. We do appreciate it.

THOMPSON: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com