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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Randy Avera

Aired February 01, 2004 - 09:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Columbia's lost. There are no survivors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: And now a look ahead to some of those questions that are still being asked after the tragedy. What was or what has the space community learned from the shuttle disaster? And where does NASA go from here? Here to help us with those issues is Randy Avera, author of the book, "The Truth About Challenger," and a former NASA engineer. Good morning to you, Randy. Thank you for being with us.

RANDY AVERA, FORMER NASA ENGINEER: Good morning, Marty.

SAVIDGE: The obvious question is, what have we learned not only out of the tragic loss, but scientifically as well to prevent this from happening again?

AVERA: We learned a lesson the second time that we learned also back in 1986 with the Challenger accident that quality and safety is the core of such exploration programs that are very complex and hazardous and risky by their very nature. But the fact that they're hazardous and risky by their very nature does not mean that we should not try these missions of exploration. NASA's a research and development agency. It's the core of its charter, and that's what NASA does best is research and development. And it's not always easy to do that from the government, from the industry, or from the citizens. It's an investment in our future, and it's a risk that we must take.

SAVIDGE: We mentioned, this is the second time we've had to go through this painful process. Is there any indication that there won't be a third? That the ideas are sinking in, I need to stand up if I've got a problem?

AVERA: As I worked at Kennedy Space Center through the '70s and '80s, a lot of times we would have launches where very few citizens would show up. NASA is the people's program. It's important to have a continuum, a continuous involvement by the people to understand what NASA is. Its charters entitle 42 of the public health and welfare codes. It's actually a part of the welfare program of the United States. Very few people realize that. But it's important to understand the charter so that we understand the missions and how to manage and oversee, not just the Congress and the president, which are responsible as the Gehman (ph) report, the final report on the Columbia accident investigation has concluded, that Congress and the president are very responsible for NASA, but it's also important that the investors, the citizens who pay the taxes, who actually own the space program and own those shuttles and the Hubble telescope and the Mars rovers that are on Mars doing that great science work as we speak.

The people on these programs -- and it's important that the people take an active role beyond just writing your congressmen or the president, but to actually get involved in creating new business, to help NASA do the research and development they're best at.

SAVIDGE: Well, where do the people and NASA go next with space?

AVERA: It is no question that we need a summit, a type of a referendum, where we support those subcommittees in the House and the Senate, and also the president of the United States, to let them know what our will is, what our thoughts, our ideas, the plus and minus, the pros and cons, so that the Congress can make a wise decision. It's not going to be a situation where Congress automatically knows everything about science and engineering and exploration. They need our support on a long-term basis to help them understand where we need, as a nation, to take this program. There are many programs within NASA that need leadership as we talk about.

SAVIDGE: We're going to run out of time in a hurry, and I want to get in one point. The space shuttle program, does that take second seat now to the program outlined by the president of venturing to Mars?

AVERA: Well, it's interesting, because the NASA charter requires NASA to have rockets, it says. And the presidential plan between 2010 and 2013, there is no apparent existence of rockets in the NASA fleet. So there is a lot of debate that will take place in the subcommittees of the House and Senate, and it's important that people be involved with that, the citizens get involved with that debate.

SAVIDGE: Randy Avera, thank you very much for joining us this morning.

AVERA: My pleasure, Martin.

SAVIDGE: It's a bittersweet day for us, but we still stay focused on the stars.

AVERA: Absolutely.

SAVIDGE: Thank you, sir.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 1, 2004 - 09:05   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Columbia's lost. There are no survivors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: And now a look ahead to some of those questions that are still being asked after the tragedy. What was or what has the space community learned from the shuttle disaster? And where does NASA go from here? Here to help us with those issues is Randy Avera, author of the book, "The Truth About Challenger," and a former NASA engineer. Good morning to you, Randy. Thank you for being with us.

RANDY AVERA, FORMER NASA ENGINEER: Good morning, Marty.

SAVIDGE: The obvious question is, what have we learned not only out of the tragic loss, but scientifically as well to prevent this from happening again?

AVERA: We learned a lesson the second time that we learned also back in 1986 with the Challenger accident that quality and safety is the core of such exploration programs that are very complex and hazardous and risky by their very nature. But the fact that they're hazardous and risky by their very nature does not mean that we should not try these missions of exploration. NASA's a research and development agency. It's the core of its charter, and that's what NASA does best is research and development. And it's not always easy to do that from the government, from the industry, or from the citizens. It's an investment in our future, and it's a risk that we must take.

SAVIDGE: We mentioned, this is the second time we've had to go through this painful process. Is there any indication that there won't be a third? That the ideas are sinking in, I need to stand up if I've got a problem?

AVERA: As I worked at Kennedy Space Center through the '70s and '80s, a lot of times we would have launches where very few citizens would show up. NASA is the people's program. It's important to have a continuum, a continuous involvement by the people to understand what NASA is. Its charters entitle 42 of the public health and welfare codes. It's actually a part of the welfare program of the United States. Very few people realize that. But it's important to understand the charter so that we understand the missions and how to manage and oversee, not just the Congress and the president, which are responsible as the Gehman (ph) report, the final report on the Columbia accident investigation has concluded, that Congress and the president are very responsible for NASA, but it's also important that the investors, the citizens who pay the taxes, who actually own the space program and own those shuttles and the Hubble telescope and the Mars rovers that are on Mars doing that great science work as we speak.

The people on these programs -- and it's important that the people take an active role beyond just writing your congressmen or the president, but to actually get involved in creating new business, to help NASA do the research and development they're best at.

SAVIDGE: Well, where do the people and NASA go next with space?

AVERA: It is no question that we need a summit, a type of a referendum, where we support those subcommittees in the House and the Senate, and also the president of the United States, to let them know what our will is, what our thoughts, our ideas, the plus and minus, the pros and cons, so that the Congress can make a wise decision. It's not going to be a situation where Congress automatically knows everything about science and engineering and exploration. They need our support on a long-term basis to help them understand where we need, as a nation, to take this program. There are many programs within NASA that need leadership as we talk about.

SAVIDGE: We're going to run out of time in a hurry, and I want to get in one point. The space shuttle program, does that take second seat now to the program outlined by the president of venturing to Mars?

AVERA: Well, it's interesting, because the NASA charter requires NASA to have rockets, it says. And the presidential plan between 2010 and 2013, there is no apparent existence of rockets in the NASA fleet. So there is a lot of debate that will take place in the subcommittees of the House and Senate, and it's important that people be involved with that, the citizens get involved with that debate.

SAVIDGE: Randy Avera, thank you very much for joining us this morning.

AVERA: My pleasure, Martin.

SAVIDGE: It's a bittersweet day for us, but we still stay focused on the stars.

AVERA: Absolutely.

SAVIDGE: Thank you, sir.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com