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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Ken Rudin
Aired February 08, 2004 - 09:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN ANCHOR: We begin this hour with presidential politics. The spotlight today is on Maine, and the Democratic caucuses in that state. CNN's Carol Lin explains what's at stake for the candidates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Kerry went two for two Saturday. The Massachusetts senator easily won Washington state, with Howard Dean in second. In Michigan, another big win, well ahead of the other candidates.
Kerry's focus not on his fellow candidates but on President Bush.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Bush's days are numbered, and change is on the way.
LIN: For Howard Dean in Vermont, to watch his son play hockey, a major loss for his struggling campaign. The head of the government employees union pulling its support for the one-time frontrunner. In a statement, Dean tried to sound upbeat. "We will work hard to earn the support of AFSCME members in Wisconsin next week. We plan to win Wisconsin next Tuesday, regain the momentum our campaign needs, and win the nomination at the Democratic national convention in Boston."
With little expectation of winning either state Saturday, Wesley Clark campaigned in Virginia Saturday, one of two Southern states holding caucuses Tuesday.
John Edwards is also looking to the Southern primaries for a strong showing, if not a win.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's important for both Tennessee and Virginia for me to be competitive. I'd like to be in top two in both places.
LIN: But for Edwards and Clark, it's an uphill battle. John Kerry is leading in the polls in both states.
Carol Lin, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And here's how the delegates to the Democratic national convention in June have been allocated so far. John Kerry has 412. Howard Dean, 174. John Edwards, 116. Wesley Clark, 82. Al Sharpton, 12. And Dennis Kucinich, 2. Two thousand one hundred and sixty-one delegates are needed to win the nomination.
With John Kerry far ahead of the pack, nearly half of the Democrats surveyed in a recent CNN/"Time" poll say Howard Dean should quit the race, but more than half say Wesley Clark and John Edwards should stick it out, at least for now.
Let's take a few minutes now to handicap the race to the nomination and how the eventual candidate might do against the incumbent president in November. Ken Rudin is the political editor at National Public Radio. He writes "The Political Junky" column on the NPR Web site. He joins us from Washington with his take on the process thus far. Ken, thanks for joining us.
KEN RUDIN, NPR: Good morning.
BUCKLEY: First wanted to ask you, with these impressive wins for Kerry yesterday in Washington state and Michigan, that aura of invincibility seems to be descending, no?
RUDIN: It does, and the terrain looks better and better for him as we go along, because as you know, winning begets winning. And the more you win, the more money you get, and you need the money to survive in this race.
BUCKLEY: You know, I was watching -- and I have to admit, I'm a bit of a political geek. I'm watching C-SPAN last night on a Saturday night.
RUDIN: That's terrible!
BUCKLEY: Watching the Jefferson Jackson dinner with all of the Democrats there. Kerry must have said the word "extreme" about 60 times in trying to define George W. Bush as extreme. Is he trying to take that ground away from the Republican side going into the general?
RUDIN: There is no question. The Democrats are very aware of what the Republicans did to Michael Dukakis in 1988. Michael Dukakis' problem was not that he was a Massachusetts liberal, he was a Massachusetts liberal who didn't defend himself, and John Kerry, who knows he's going to be tarred as a Massachusetts liberal, is trying to preempt the attack by going after George Bush, saying he's an extreme conservative. And John Kerry's mainstream, President Bush is extreme.
BUCKLEY: Howard Dean yesterday, in theory should have done well in Washington state. He lost it to Kerry. Is Howard Dean done?
RUDIN: Well, I don't want to say this race is over, otherwise you won't have me on CNN anymore, but Howard Dean says that he has to win Wisconsin on February 17. That's kind of an odd state to pick. I mean, that's the 17th state in the process. Nobody in history has ever gone 0 for 16 and then suddenly come back and won the nomination. But I mean, it's really his last ditch attempt. Wisconsin should be favorable terrain, but so should Washington and Michigan yesterday.
Washington is a very good state, had been thought of to be a very good state for Howard Dean, but again, voters, as we've seen from Iowa to New Hampshire to the present, they want to win and they don't see Howard Dean as a winner.
BUCKLEY: John Edwards and Wes Clark are working the South. They're looking to Tuesday. Tennessee and Virginia, but neither of them is saying we have to win one of these. Do they have to win one of these?
RUDIN: They do. You know, John Edwards' whole campaign is pre- disposed, basically he's saying that I am the alternative, I am the guy who can win the South. John Kerry certainly can't carry any Southern states. I can. If John Edwards and to a lesser extent Wesley Clark don't win on Tuesday in Virginia or Tennessee, then the question is then where can they win, and if John Kerry can show his appeal extends all over the country, including the South, then it's going to be almost impossible.
I hate to say the word impossible, because we were anointing Howard Dean just a few months ago, but it would be almost impossible to stop John Kerry if he wins on Tuesday.
BUCKLEY: Well, let me ask you about Dean. The other day he gave a radio interview and he suggested that he might be willing to take up the VP slot. Did people read too much into that, do you think, or is he sort of saying, yeah, pick me to be the VP?
RUDIN: Well, why pick him? If he's shown absolutely no, there is no indication that he could win anywhere, what does he bring to the ticket? I mean, we talked a lot about the enthusiasm that a lot of his supporters had, we talked about the money he raised, about the excitement on the Internet, but if you go 0 for 16, 0 for 17 and you don't win anywhere, what do you gain by putting him on the ticket? What do the Democrats gain? I don't think you gain much.
BUCKLEY: All right, Ken Rudin, we enjoy you on NPR. Thanks for joining us this morning.
RUDIN: I look much better on NPR.
BUCKLEY: And I've got a face for videophone.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 8, 2004 - 09:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN ANCHOR: We begin this hour with presidential politics. The spotlight today is on Maine, and the Democratic caucuses in that state. CNN's Carol Lin explains what's at stake for the candidates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Kerry went two for two Saturday. The Massachusetts senator easily won Washington state, with Howard Dean in second. In Michigan, another big win, well ahead of the other candidates.
Kerry's focus not on his fellow candidates but on President Bush.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Bush's days are numbered, and change is on the way.
LIN: For Howard Dean in Vermont, to watch his son play hockey, a major loss for his struggling campaign. The head of the government employees union pulling its support for the one-time frontrunner. In a statement, Dean tried to sound upbeat. "We will work hard to earn the support of AFSCME members in Wisconsin next week. We plan to win Wisconsin next Tuesday, regain the momentum our campaign needs, and win the nomination at the Democratic national convention in Boston."
With little expectation of winning either state Saturday, Wesley Clark campaigned in Virginia Saturday, one of two Southern states holding caucuses Tuesday.
John Edwards is also looking to the Southern primaries for a strong showing, if not a win.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's important for both Tennessee and Virginia for me to be competitive. I'd like to be in top two in both places.
LIN: But for Edwards and Clark, it's an uphill battle. John Kerry is leading in the polls in both states.
Carol Lin, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And here's how the delegates to the Democratic national convention in June have been allocated so far. John Kerry has 412. Howard Dean, 174. John Edwards, 116. Wesley Clark, 82. Al Sharpton, 12. And Dennis Kucinich, 2. Two thousand one hundred and sixty-one delegates are needed to win the nomination.
With John Kerry far ahead of the pack, nearly half of the Democrats surveyed in a recent CNN/"Time" poll say Howard Dean should quit the race, but more than half say Wesley Clark and John Edwards should stick it out, at least for now.
Let's take a few minutes now to handicap the race to the nomination and how the eventual candidate might do against the incumbent president in November. Ken Rudin is the political editor at National Public Radio. He writes "The Political Junky" column on the NPR Web site. He joins us from Washington with his take on the process thus far. Ken, thanks for joining us.
KEN RUDIN, NPR: Good morning.
BUCKLEY: First wanted to ask you, with these impressive wins for Kerry yesterday in Washington state and Michigan, that aura of invincibility seems to be descending, no?
RUDIN: It does, and the terrain looks better and better for him as we go along, because as you know, winning begets winning. And the more you win, the more money you get, and you need the money to survive in this race.
BUCKLEY: You know, I was watching -- and I have to admit, I'm a bit of a political geek. I'm watching C-SPAN last night on a Saturday night.
RUDIN: That's terrible!
BUCKLEY: Watching the Jefferson Jackson dinner with all of the Democrats there. Kerry must have said the word "extreme" about 60 times in trying to define George W. Bush as extreme. Is he trying to take that ground away from the Republican side going into the general?
RUDIN: There is no question. The Democrats are very aware of what the Republicans did to Michael Dukakis in 1988. Michael Dukakis' problem was not that he was a Massachusetts liberal, he was a Massachusetts liberal who didn't defend himself, and John Kerry, who knows he's going to be tarred as a Massachusetts liberal, is trying to preempt the attack by going after George Bush, saying he's an extreme conservative. And John Kerry's mainstream, President Bush is extreme.
BUCKLEY: Howard Dean yesterday, in theory should have done well in Washington state. He lost it to Kerry. Is Howard Dean done?
RUDIN: Well, I don't want to say this race is over, otherwise you won't have me on CNN anymore, but Howard Dean says that he has to win Wisconsin on February 17. That's kind of an odd state to pick. I mean, that's the 17th state in the process. Nobody in history has ever gone 0 for 16 and then suddenly come back and won the nomination. But I mean, it's really his last ditch attempt. Wisconsin should be favorable terrain, but so should Washington and Michigan yesterday.
Washington is a very good state, had been thought of to be a very good state for Howard Dean, but again, voters, as we've seen from Iowa to New Hampshire to the present, they want to win and they don't see Howard Dean as a winner.
BUCKLEY: John Edwards and Wes Clark are working the South. They're looking to Tuesday. Tennessee and Virginia, but neither of them is saying we have to win one of these. Do they have to win one of these?
RUDIN: They do. You know, John Edwards' whole campaign is pre- disposed, basically he's saying that I am the alternative, I am the guy who can win the South. John Kerry certainly can't carry any Southern states. I can. If John Edwards and to a lesser extent Wesley Clark don't win on Tuesday in Virginia or Tennessee, then the question is then where can they win, and if John Kerry can show his appeal extends all over the country, including the South, then it's going to be almost impossible.
I hate to say the word impossible, because we were anointing Howard Dean just a few months ago, but it would be almost impossible to stop John Kerry if he wins on Tuesday.
BUCKLEY: Well, let me ask you about Dean. The other day he gave a radio interview and he suggested that he might be willing to take up the VP slot. Did people read too much into that, do you think, or is he sort of saying, yeah, pick me to be the VP?
RUDIN: Well, why pick him? If he's shown absolutely no, there is no indication that he could win anywhere, what does he bring to the ticket? I mean, we talked a lot about the enthusiasm that a lot of his supporters had, we talked about the money he raised, about the excitement on the Internet, but if you go 0 for 16, 0 for 17 and you don't win anywhere, what do you gain by putting him on the ticket? What do the Democrats gain? I don't think you gain much.
BUCKLEY: All right, Ken Rudin, we enjoy you on NPR. Thanks for joining us this morning.
RUDIN: I look much better on NPR.
BUCKLEY: And I've got a face for videophone.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
