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CNN Sunday Morning

Aristide Flees Haiti; Interview With Tommy Thompson

Aired February 29, 2004 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. This is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I am Heidi Collins and I believe that it's February 29th. Now today the last day of February.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: I wasn't going to bring that up, but that's all right. I'm Martin Savidge. Good morning. If you're just waking up on the West Coast, yes, it's early, but thanks to all of you for starting your day with us.

Headlines are straight ahead. And you're going to want to stick around for the rest of this hour. Here's what we've got coming up. A tanker carrying over 3.5 million gallons of ethanol explodes and sinks off the coast of Virginia. Three are dead, 18 still missing in the 40 degree waters. We'll have a live update.

Rosie said "I do." And so have thousands of other gay couples from San Francisco to New York. But the debate rages on. Should same-sex couples have the right to wed? We'll tackle that issue coming up just a little bit later.

COLLINS: Yes, we will. And also, they are doing a little bit of printing. And as you would imagine, checking out...

SAVIDGE: Preparing.

COLLINS: ...how they look. Of course, talking about the Oscars. That big show is coming up tonight.

SAVIDGE: Meanwhile, moving on to other news, the U.S. is rebuilding Iraq at this hour. And that includes the country's medical system. We'll be talking to Tommy Thompson coming up in just a bit, to find out things there.

But meanwhile, we also are getting this news. The Associated Press is saying now that the Haitian leader, that is Jean Bertrand- Aristide, under pressure both at home and also from overseas, is in the process of leaving Haiti. That coming to us again from the Associated Press. It is quoting a cabinet minister and close adviser, that being Leslie Voltaire is saying that Aristide is gone. He apparently will seek asylum outside of the country. Morocco is one place that is being talked about.

Charges are expected today against a relative of the missing family in Mississippi. No word yet on what those charges are going to be. A state official says the relative is Ernest Lee Hargon. His cousin, Michael Hargon, and Michael Hargon's wife and son have been missing for two weeks.

This video just in about 30 minutes ago from the U.S. Coast Guard, searching off of Virginia for up to 18 missing crew men, after their tanker exploded and sank late last night. There are six survivors and three crew men are confirmed dead. A live update on the search for the missing is coming up just ahead.

The rover Opportunity on a bit of a pause, waiting to take another bit out of the -- that should be bite -- Martian surface. Opportunity will drill into a rocky (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It's been called El Capitain and takes some measurements.

Meanwhile, Opportunity's twin rover, Spirit, is making its final approach to Humphrey, a Martian rock that it will analyze.

COLLINS: And if you are just waking up with us this morning, obviously several stories that we're watching. And a big one happening over night while you slept. Crew members from a tanker that exploded off the Virginia coast are rushed from a Coast Guard rescue chopper to a hospital. They are the lucky ones. 18 people are still missing this morning.

CNN's Elaine Quijano is live in Portsmouth, Virginia with the very latest on what's happening there.

Good morning to you, Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi. We are here at the U.S. Coast Guard command center in Portsmouth, Virginia. And here are the latest casualty figures from officials here. Three people are dead, 18 are missing, and six people are known to have survived. They apparently plucked from a life raft that was found floating in the area where this tanker went down.

Now just a short time ago, the Coast Guard released some dramatic infrared imagery of the search, as they scanned the area for any survivors. What was visible in some of that video was the back end of the ship, as it apparently disappeared underneath the waves there, also an empty life raft visible, as well as an oil slick, a combination we are told of ethanol and fuel oil that was used to fuel the ship.

Now the ship itself was a Singapore flag ship en route from New York City to Houston. We are told it was carrying 3.5 million gallons of ethanol. In addition to that, there was some 700 metric tons of fuel oil on board.

Now this all took place about 55 miles east of Chincoteague. That is on the Virginia coast there. And the Coast Guard says it will continue its search. And this morning, by the light of day, they will be getting their first look in the daylight at what that area looks like. They said that there's plenty of debris, plenty of the wreckage still very visible. And what they are going to do now is continue in a search and a rescue mode, as they have 18 people still missing.

Now how long will they continue this search? Officials here telling me that that will depend on a number of factors, including the water temperature, the air temperature, and also things like the body mass of the people if they have any idea how much they weighed, who it is that they're looking for, and the probabilities of survival.

Right now, they are focused on the search and rescue mission. I asked about the investigation at this point. Officials here saying that because this took place in international waters, that they will be working with the Singapore authorities on this. And at this point, they have not yet kind of pinned down exactly how that investigation is going to proceed. They say they are simply in a search and rescue mode at this time -- Heidi?

COLLINS: All right, Elaine Quijano, thanks so much for keeping us up to date on that story. We'll check back with you a little bit later on.

SAVIDGE: We started off this broadcast talking about the crisis in Haiti. The Associated Press was reporting that the Haitian president had left. That is a conflicting report with other information that is coming into CNN. Let's try to clarify things.

CNN's Lucia Newman has been in the Haitian capital. She is there now and is on the telephone -- Lucia?

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning. Well, we have just spoken to Leslie Voltaire, who's the president's chief of staff, and personal adviser who tells us "I have not seen the president leave. I don't know of anyone else who has seen him leave, and I understand he was the person that was being quoted as having said that he already had." We also spoke to the president's attorney, who said that it was not true. Back to you.

SAVIDGE: Lucia, any reason why he would have this confusion? Obviously, things must be very fluid politically there in the capital.

NEWMAN: There have been a lot of rumors that have been flying everywhere, who's leaving, what's on file, who's dead, who'd alive. It's the sort of thing that happens in a crisis like this.

There was obviously some confusion. It's not to say that it may not be true or may not be -- in the future at some point, but the people who had allegedly said that the president had already left the palace are now telling us that that is not the case.

SAVIDGE: And what is the situation in the capital on the streets now? Is it quiet? Have there been any lessening of some of the violence there after the plea by the president?

NEWMAN: It's 7:15 in the morning right now. It is a Sunday. At this very moment, it appears to be quiet. And we're out checking that out, in fact, trying to see if things are going to start getting violent again, as they did yesterday, as the hours wore on.

At this time yesterday, there were more than 2,000 people looting the port. Heavily armed men guarding those who were looting, often -- you know, asking for extortion money and pointing guns at the press as well.

We're going to see just what the situation is today. Hopefully, it will be more calm, but the president appealed to his followers to be more calm. It had only a very small effect yesterday.

SAVIDGE: And what about rebel forces themselves? I believe last report we had said there were about 25 miles outside of the capital. Any indication that they may be moving closer today?

NEWMAN: Well, I think that's the -- might be one of the reason for all the rumors. The rebels have said that they were going to give the president "one or two more days," that's a direct quote, to leave the palace before marching on the capital itself. That was said two days ago.

Also today is the birthday of the chief rebel commander, Guy Philippe, who had said on a number of occasions that he wanted to be in Port-au-Prince by his birthday, which is today. So there are a lot people fearing that that could happen at any moment. We have no specific indication that that is the case.

SAVIDGE: All right, Lucia. As we said yesterday, we repeat again today, we will stay very close to you for all the latest information. Thank you very much. Lucia Newman in Port-au-Prince in Haiti -- Heidi?

COLLINS: To Mississippi now. Criminal charges are expected today in the missing family case, but it's still unclear what charges a cousin of Michael Hargon will face. Hargon, his wife Rebecca, and their four-year old son, James Patrick, have been missing since February 14 from their home in Yazoo County. Law enforcement authorities think they're on the brink of solving the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN STRAIN, MISSISSIPPI PUBLIC SAFETY DEPT.: Ernest Lee Hargon will be charged with multiple felony counts tomorrow. And we'll detail those after their filing. At this point, the whereabouts of the Hargons is still unknown. We really, really, really have something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: In addition to the missing family's home in Yazoo County, investigators have now searched the cousin's home near Taylorsville in a tract of land in the Taylorsville area.

As the word of the break in this case came yesterday, CNN's Mike Brooks and a crew traveled to Mississippi. He's joining us now -- or actually next hour, he's going to be updating us on the missing family and the mystery surrounding them.

SAVIDGE: Well, I hear some other stories that are making headlines this morning. In California, police are investigating several reported shootings on a highway near Sacramento. Six people say that their cars were hit by something last Monday, though no bullets have been recovered and fortunately, no injuries.

Security officials are investigating how a man was able to climb to the edge of Seattle's space needle and threaten to jump. The man was coaxed back into the tower, after three hours on the ledge.

Harvard University announces a plan to aid more -- aid more moderate and low income families. The school guarantees students from households making less than $40,000 a year that they won't have to pay tuition, provided they have the grades to get into Harvard in the first place. Harvard will also actively recruit good students from disadvantaged backgrounds.

And the Razzie goes to "Gigli." Did I say that right? The Ben and Jen fiasco took a whopping six golden Raspberry Awards, including worst picture and worst on-screen couple. J-Lo also captured worst actress honors, while Affleck was named worst actor for his performance in "Gigli," "Paycheck" and "Dare Devil." There you have it.

COLLINS: Some great (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

Want to go ahead and fast forward now and take a look at what's happening this week. They call it Super Tuesday for a good reason. 1151 delegates are up for grabs in 10 different states. Also on Tuesday, Kobe Bryant's accuser will likely take the stand for the first time in a closed preliminary hearing. She will be asked about her sexual history.

On Thursday, jury selection begins in Scott Peterson's murder trial. The trial could take five months, but jurors will be allowed to go home every day.

SAVIDGE: All right, speaking of fast forward, let's fast forward now to the third hour of CNN SUNDAY MORNING. We will be debating one of the hot issues this week, gay marriage. And of course, we want you to weigh in. Should gays be able to marry? Tell us what you think. Our address is wam@cnn.com.

COLLINS: Iraqi hospitals may soon become a center of excellence, at least according to one prediction. We'll ask Health and Human Secretary -- Health and Human Service Secretary Tommy Thompson why in just a few minutes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm in this race for the long haul. Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Find out why John Edwards is optimistic heading Super Tuesday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BREAKING NEWS) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Iraq's crumbling medical system, after years of Saddam Hussein and looting in the war, is now in desperate need. The coalition in Iraq is spending nearly $1 billion to rebuild the system. To that end, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson is in Iraq. He's looking over the problems and the progress as well.

Secretary Thompson joins us now live from Baghdad this morning.

Secretary Thompson, thanks so much for your time. We sure do appreciate your being with us this Sunday morning.

TOMMY THOMPSON, SEC. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Well, it's an honor for me to be with you, Heidi. And I really would like to point out that Iraq in the 1970s had a wonderful medical system, was one of the best in the region. It was a magnet for people to come and get taken care of.

And under Saddam Hussein's leadership, he starved it. He was only putting in $16 million a year. And he was only paying 65 cents per Iraqi citizen for medical care.

They didn't even have light bulbs. And he was depriving children, children with cancer, from drugs so that they would drive up the infant mortality, so he could blame the United States for the blockade. It was just an insidious example of a maniac that has really tried to ruin this great country. And now we're trying to rebuild it.

And I got to tell you, it's coming around. And the people, the doctors, and the people are so supportive.

COLLINS: Well, that's certainly exciting to hear, Secretary Thompson. In fact, I know that you've been there for three days. And you had said before going that this, as you mentioned, has -- was actually a center of excellence as far as the medical community was concerned.

It's now looking like quite a bit of U.S. dollars is going to be poured into this. What will be the priorities? You mentioned infant mortality.

THOMPSON: Well, there's no question that infant mortality has got to be number one. There's hardly any treatment whatsoever for mental illness. And so we have to make sure that that is rebuilt. Also, cancer patients are not getting the kind of treatment that they need, because the doctors here were also not only deprived from resources, they were deprived from any kind of training or education. So we got to retrain the professionals. And we got to -- certainly start training nurses.

There's a tremendous scarcity of nurses in the health infrastructure. So all of these things have to be rebuilt, but I want to tell you that the doctors that I have met are dedicated individuals. And the head of the ministry of health is Dr. Abbas, an Iraqi that was driven out of this country 25 years ago to England, and has come back to run it. And he is bringing in doctors from -- that had to be -- had to leave Iraq because of Saddam Hussein, are coming back. And they're bringing new education, new training.

And it's really starting to feel like it's a very viable organization. And people are upbeat and optimistic about the future.

COLLINS: It certainly sounds like at least from what I've read that the Iraqis have been very welcoming to you and the delegation. I am wondering, though, you know we see these pictures of the children and their faces. And you just want to snatch them up and try to help in any way that you can.

You also mentioned mental illness. I can only imagine some of the trauma that these children have faced.

THOMPSON: Right.

COLLINS: And many of them, I would imagine, now orphans. What sort of care can you provide them and will you begin trying to provide them?

THOMPSON: Well, Saddam Hussein didn't want to have anybody realize that there was anybody with any mental illness or defects in this country. And of course, he was -- he had the largest mental problems of any citizen in Iraq. And they just didn't have any institutions, whatsoever, to take care of individuals with mental problems. And so, we're going to have to come over here with some of our individuals from the Department of Health and Human Services.

We're going to have to recruit from some psychiatrists. And some other individuals to come back in and help set up a mental health institution.

But the people are willing to do so. We have some resources from the department. And of course, the supplemental bill that passed Congress is going to allow for the Iraqi mental health institutions to get some dollars necessary to rebuild it.

COLLINS: Let me finally ask you this before we let you go. I know that there has been a lot of talk about, you know, the change of power and the handing over of that power. Now part of this...

THOMPSON: Yes.

COLLINS: ...will involve the Iraqi Ministry of Health as well. How long do you think your best guess will it take before the power can go back to the hospitals as well, so that they may offer patient care to their citizens?

THOMPSON: Well, Dr. Abbas is just a phenomenal individual. He has up and operational 240 hospitals. So that is tremendous. Out of the 1200 clinics, I'd say about 800 to 900 are back in operation, which to me is very strong.

And they're really going to go into preventive care and primary care, because that's what needs to be done first. The people out in the rural areas have got to be able to go into a clinic and be able to have just basic health care taken care of.

And that was deprived of the citizens of Iraq. And now we're going to have to rebuild it. So I think Dr. Abbas is really doing a wonderful job. And I met his team. We went through several hospitals and daycare centers today. And it was really revealing how well that they have done so far, but they got a long ways to go. And we're going to help them.

COLLINS: All right, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson. We appreciate your time this morning. And though there may be a lot of work ahead, it sounds promising. We'd love to check back with you as that progress continues. Thanks so much, sir.

THOMPSON: Thank you very much, Heidi. Bye.

SAVIDGE: Here's an update now on our top story. There was a major development in the Haitian crisis. President Jean Bertrand- Aristide has reportedly left the country. A senior Bush administration official confirms Aristide's departure, but has provided few other details. It remains to be seen what rebel forces will do or how things will remain in the capital of Port-au-Prince. We will continue to keep in touch with CNN'S Lucia Newman there.

COLLINS: As you can see, an awful lot going on this morning. But is now time for weather. I want to get our first check of that 7:25 this morning. Rob, what's going on this Sunday?

SAVIDGE: Morning, Rob.

ROB MARCIANO, METEOROLOGIST: Morning, Marty, Heidi. We have a decent storm that's moving across the mid section of the country, but the eastern third or maybe even the eastern half going to enjoy a really, really nice Sunday, almost feeling like spring, or at least kind of, sort of in a way.

Warm on the east side of the U.S. And in between, we've got that storm that's bringing some snow to the Colorado Rockies. And down to the south, some Texas thunder's going to be the call here with this storm system as it pulls off to the east.

But eastern seaboard warm temperatures south and southwest low for the most parts. That sunshine's going to be in control. New York, D.C., Boston, even as far west as Detroit, although they'll be some clouds. You won't see any moisture in places like Detroit and St. Louis, at least today.

But Oklahoma City, south to Dallas, back west towards well just to the east of Lubkin is where we've seen our line of thunderstorms develop in advance of this particular storm system. We've also seen several -- a couple of feet, actually, of snow in parts of southern Colorado. And they have avalanche warnings out for the San Juan.

So skiers loving it, but back country motorists may not have such an easy go. 34 in Salt Lake. 34 in Denver with more snow expected today, but there are the temperatures in the 60s in D.C. We take you live to Norfolk, Virginia, where WAVY is our affiliate. Look at that bright sunshine. It's 34 degrees. A beautiful day expected. And they could use it, Heidi, and Martin, as you know, they've got the search and rescue deal going on just offshore there. Water temperature in the mid 40s. They should have good visibility and light winds today for that effort throughout the morning.

COLLINS: That's great to hear. All right, Rob. Thanks so very much.

MARCIANO: You bet.

COLLINS: In fact, as Rob was mentioning, a search is underway now off the coast of Virginia. Several members of a tanker crew are still missing this morning. We're going to take you there live coming up next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

SAVIDGE: And here's what else to look for. The consequences of that infamous half-time show. Are the American media crossing the line? We'll debate that with two radio shock jocks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Want to revisit our story on Haiti now. As we've been telling you all morning long, our President Jean Bertrand-Aristide left Haiti this morning. We got that confirmation from Washington. So we do want to go there now.

We have Elise Labott on the line. She is our State Department producer. Want to get that side of the story for you.

Elise, what is the new information that you are hearing from where you are?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi. Well, obviously, this is still all very unfolding. But a very long night for Secretary Powell, other officials working with the French foreign minister, Caribbean leaders and the U.N. to try and find an end to this crisis. State Department officials are confirming that Aristide has left Haiti, but are waiting for an official announcement from the Haitian government, before saying more.

We do know that Secretary of State Colin Powell was intimately involved. A lot of diplomacy going on overnight. If you saw the U.S. position over the last few days, he was continuing to distance himself from Aristide and calling on him to end the violence, really saying this is the crisis of its own making. And it was obviously very clear to Aristide that he did not have U.S. support, as those rebels were marching on towards the capital.

In recent days, you saw U.S. statements by Secretary Powell. Yesterday, a very strong one by the White House, questioning his fitness to govern his country. And in the end, it was pretty clear that no one was coming to his rescue, Heidi.

COLLINS: Elise, any chance you could tell us a little bit more about how Secretary Powell was involved? You said involved intimately. And we do know that after the meeting yesterday between -- the national security advisers, that the pressure from the U.S. had really been stepped up. Was that because of these face to face meetings that we now understand involved Colin Powell?

LABOTT: Well, I don't know if it was like a one minute kind of decision or turning point. Over the last couple of days, Secretary Powell has been really tirelessly working the phones with the French foreign minister, with the leaders of Cara Com (ph), the Caribbean group, with the U.N., and Haitian opposition groups, trying to end this crisis. They really were hoping for that political settlement that Cara Com (ph) plan.

But it was very clear that the opposition was not giving up on its demands that Aristide would leave. The crisis was getting even deeper. It was getting even bloodier. And in the last couple of days, these armed gangs by Aristide, these shemairs (ph) were pillaging the country. And the U.S. really was calling on Aristide, saying you know, the crisis over the last several years in getting worse was a crisis of Aristide's making because these gangs were once loyal to Aristide. They were armed. They were going against the rest of the country. Then he was unleashing new armed gangs. And they just were really questioning his fitness to govern.

And also the opposition, the armed gangs were not giving up on their position that Aristide must go. And people were saying over the last couple days, listen, we don't want to stalemate any longer that's going to lead to even more violence.

Well, obviously the pressure in the last couple days was really stepping up on Aristide to kind of make it -- the hard decisions he needed to make for the best interests of Haiti.

COLLINS: And talk about hard decisions, Elise, as I'm sure you remember in 1990, Aristide had actually become the very first democratically elected president for Haiti. And that was through some (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of the United States of course. This becomes a very sticky and tricky, if you will, situation I imagine to try then to get him to leave power.

LABOTT: Well, it's true. At first they -- the U.S. and its partners really didn't want to say anything about Aristide stepping down because if you remember, the U.S. went in and invaded Haiti in 1994 to install Aristide as the democratically elected leader, after a military coup. But Secretary Powell and many other officials have said since then, he -- Aristide has really failed his people. He really hasn't made good on the promises that he said he would make to end corruption in the Haitian government, to stop intimidation by police, to end political repression, to give people more human rights, and to really help develop his country.

A lot of aid went into the country after that military coup and after they re-installed him. And he really hasn't done much to bring the Haitian people out of the mess they were in when he came. And so, the U.S. kind of, you know, put its hands up and said, you know, we've given you every chance we can give you. And, you know, this crisis is really -- you know, you made your bed in a sense. You really have to, you know, take responsibility for the crisis that you created, Heidi.

COLLINS: All right, of course we will continue to watch this story and appreciate your time this morning. Elise Labott, our State Department producer. Thanks so much, Elise.

SAVIDGE: Here is CNN Suzanne Malveaux, our White House correspondent that broke the news this morning about the departure of Jean Bertrand-Aristide. She joins us now from the White House with more.

And Suzanne, what do we know about the role that the U.S. may have played in this departure?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as Elise had mentioned, it was definitely Secretary Powell, as well as other U.S. officials who are intimately involved overnight and really trying to broker this deal.

But this is something that had been developing over the last several days. Just yesterday, the White House issued a very strongly worded statement, saying that this was Aristide's own making, that this crisis was his responsibility.

We have been told over the last several days, that while the administration publicly was talking about this power sharing plan, which would allow Aristide to remain in power during his term, along with the opponents, and that somehow there'd be a multinational force that would back that up, privately over the last couple of days, State Department officials, as well as people here telling us that they really believed that the best way to handle this was for Aristide to step down, that there was increasing pressure, that that message was delivered to him quite clearly yesterday. And that this is the result of this.

But as you could imagine, the worse case scenario for the Bush administration would have been if Aristide's opponents had either successfully captured or killed the Haitian leader. That really would have put an end to any type of peaceful settlement. And at the same time, would have created this dangerous power vacuum in one of the poorest countries in the world, a country that really is just about 700 miles away from the United States.

So this is something that they're quite relieved about, that this has happened. And believe me, it has required a lot of work, a lot of time, in making sure that this happened.

Big question here is, though, is who is in charge? How will that transitional government work?

SAVIDGE: And exactly that. Is the U.S. committed to anything in sort of brokering this deal, if that's what's been done, as to say all right, here's how we're going to follow up and and try to assist the situation now that he has left?

MALVEAUX: Well, we're certainly waiting for details about just what the level of commitment is. But so far, over the last couple of days, the United States has been intimately involved in trying to work -- it's been working with the Caribbean nations, with the French, and others to make sure that there was A, a peaceful departure of Aristide, but also that there is some sort of structure, some sort of transition, transfer of power inside of that country.

Of course, a lot of the details about how that is going to work, and what kind of force is going to support that is still unknown.

SAVIDGE: And one last thing. Is there is a concern now, as there always has been about a flight of Haitians leaving, especially those that may have been Aristide's supporters and trying to make their way to the U.S.?

MALVEAUX: Well, certainly there is that concern. And as you know, the Bush administration particularly President Bush was under increasing pressure over the last week or so from Democrats, from the Congressional Black Caucus that met with him, to intervene immediately, to send people who would be able to aid the Haitians to -- there was also an appeal, of course, not to bring them back to Haiti, that there was a very dangerous situation. That is something that the administration is very sensitive about. And people are going to keep a very close eye as to how they handle that.

SAVIDGE: And Heidi mentioned this, but I wonder about the awkwardness of the Bush -- the administration's stance in democracy in Haiti, at the same time you ask the first democratically elected president to, you know what? I think you ought to leave.

MALVEAUX: Well, certainly. And that is something that the administration has had to grapple with. It's been a very delicate balancing act. But as we heard from Secretary Powell earlier in the week, it was a clear signal, an indication from him that he was very frustrated with Aristide, did not feel that all of the money and the resources that were put into that country and into his leadership were really paying off in any kind of real way. And that they felt that the best thing for him to do was essentially exit and let democracy work that way.

SAVIDGE: And we will be watching the results.

Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much. Suzanne broke the story this morning for us from the White House on the fact that Jean Bertrand-Aristide has now left Haiti -- Heidi?

COLLINS: That's right. And we do just want to take a moment to remind you of how this went down, if you will, this morning. It was 6:00 a.m. or so when we started learning of some activity in Haiti. Took us a little bit of time to go ahead and confirm that for you, just after 7:00 through the White House. And Suzanne Malveaux, that is, confirming President Jean Bertrand-Aristide leaving Haiti.

Still getting details on how exactly logistically that will happen, but that is what we have learned at this point. And we would like to turn now to Paris, where we have Jesse Jackson standing by. He's known President Aristide for quite some time. Going to give us a little bit more perspective from what he sees and what he has known over the years of this man.

Mr. Jackson, are you with us?

JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: Yes. I heard someone say that the U.S. invaded Haiti in 1994 (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Well, that is not true. There was no invasion. We negotiated (UNINTELLIGIBLE) out because the military had overthrown a democratically elected government, that Aristide was the victor in.

We negotiated him back in. In the 1994, amazingly, the right wing was very impatient. Matter of fact, they resented Clinton negotiating Aristide back in. And the promise in fact never was delivered.

I am upset that our nation disregarded the Monroe Doctrine of protecting a democratically elected government in our own hemisphere. We do not know what we have now.

COLLINS: So Mr. Jackson, let me interrupt if I could. Are you saying you're upset that President Aristide has stepped down?

JACKSON: Well, I'm glad he has stepped away. Whether he has stepped down or not is yet another question. He is still the president. He's just out of the country because our government stood by and offered no support to defend a constitutional government. And that gets in return from undemocratic opposition that would not go to an election process, and another element who brought in M-16s and AK- 47s (UNINTELLIGIBLE) not sure yet. Maybe even drew up (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

What is the new opposition-rebel element? Who are they? We do not really know what that is. All we do know is that there's chaos and poverty in Haiti today. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) recently that we would be so willing to fight for a democracy to create one in Iraq and abandon one in our hemisphere.

COLLINS: If we could, let's go ahead and stick with Haiti, Reverend Jackson, if we could.

JACKSON: Indeed.

COLLINS: Would you tell us a little bit about the last time you spoke with President Aristide, and what those words were?

JACKSON: Spoke with him Friday. I spoke with him yesterday. He was willing to hang on to the very end. He and his wife to defend the constitutionally elected government of Haiti.

The 50 state African unions passed a resolution in Libya Friday. I was there, to support the constitutional government. And our government did a couple of ugly things. One, to bring ships into the waters to deny Haitians refugee status. That was a violation of international law. And give me your tired, your poor, your hungry masses was stood on its head to lock Haitians out of the water into an internal. The Monroe Doctrine was thrown out the window. Refugee policy was thrown out the window. And we get all the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) anyways to undermine or in fact help overthrow that government.

COLLINS: Reverend Jackson, how do you think President Aristide has done in leading his country?

JACKSON: I think given the odds, he has done reasonably well. And when there was a lot of chaos, he signed the agreement to empower the -- a prime -- the opposition would not sign such an agreement. Probably Secretary Powell has said what shall we do? He said well, we hope the opposition will sign the agreement as Aristide has.

Now just suppose they don't. He said well, we'll have to wait and see. Often when you do not sign a peace agreement (UNINTELLIGIBLE) democracy, there are conflict crisis. We offered no resistance that democratically elected government could be overthrown. We offered no resistance.

And on the contrary, we gave

(AUDIO GAP)

...them in. And Aristide had no standing on it.

Where's the CIA when the AK-47s and M-16s were coming in? Or who was given the orders in that bloody coup?

COLLINS: Certainly Reverend Jackson...

JACKSON: Does this open up drug lanes again through Haiti on to Florida? We just don't know.

COLLINS: That's right. And certainly there are many questions surrounding this and the departure of President Jean Bertrand- Aristide.

Reverend Jesse Jackson from Paris this morning. We certainly appreciate your time.

We are going to take -- pardon me, back over to you, Marty.

SAVIDGE: Well, we are going to take a break.

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Aired February 29, 2004 - 07:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. This is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I am Heidi Collins and I believe that it's February 29th. Now today the last day of February.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: I wasn't going to bring that up, but that's all right. I'm Martin Savidge. Good morning. If you're just waking up on the West Coast, yes, it's early, but thanks to all of you for starting your day with us.

Headlines are straight ahead. And you're going to want to stick around for the rest of this hour. Here's what we've got coming up. A tanker carrying over 3.5 million gallons of ethanol explodes and sinks off the coast of Virginia. Three are dead, 18 still missing in the 40 degree waters. We'll have a live update.

Rosie said "I do." And so have thousands of other gay couples from San Francisco to New York. But the debate rages on. Should same-sex couples have the right to wed? We'll tackle that issue coming up just a little bit later.

COLLINS: Yes, we will. And also, they are doing a little bit of printing. And as you would imagine, checking out...

SAVIDGE: Preparing.

COLLINS: ...how they look. Of course, talking about the Oscars. That big show is coming up tonight.

SAVIDGE: Meanwhile, moving on to other news, the U.S. is rebuilding Iraq at this hour. And that includes the country's medical system. We'll be talking to Tommy Thompson coming up in just a bit, to find out things there.

But meanwhile, we also are getting this news. The Associated Press is saying now that the Haitian leader, that is Jean Bertrand- Aristide, under pressure both at home and also from overseas, is in the process of leaving Haiti. That coming to us again from the Associated Press. It is quoting a cabinet minister and close adviser, that being Leslie Voltaire is saying that Aristide is gone. He apparently will seek asylum outside of the country. Morocco is one place that is being talked about.

Charges are expected today against a relative of the missing family in Mississippi. No word yet on what those charges are going to be. A state official says the relative is Ernest Lee Hargon. His cousin, Michael Hargon, and Michael Hargon's wife and son have been missing for two weeks.

This video just in about 30 minutes ago from the U.S. Coast Guard, searching off of Virginia for up to 18 missing crew men, after their tanker exploded and sank late last night. There are six survivors and three crew men are confirmed dead. A live update on the search for the missing is coming up just ahead.

The rover Opportunity on a bit of a pause, waiting to take another bit out of the -- that should be bite -- Martian surface. Opportunity will drill into a rocky (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It's been called El Capitain and takes some measurements.

Meanwhile, Opportunity's twin rover, Spirit, is making its final approach to Humphrey, a Martian rock that it will analyze.

COLLINS: And if you are just waking up with us this morning, obviously several stories that we're watching. And a big one happening over night while you slept. Crew members from a tanker that exploded off the Virginia coast are rushed from a Coast Guard rescue chopper to a hospital. They are the lucky ones. 18 people are still missing this morning.

CNN's Elaine Quijano is live in Portsmouth, Virginia with the very latest on what's happening there.

Good morning to you, Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi. We are here at the U.S. Coast Guard command center in Portsmouth, Virginia. And here are the latest casualty figures from officials here. Three people are dead, 18 are missing, and six people are known to have survived. They apparently plucked from a life raft that was found floating in the area where this tanker went down.

Now just a short time ago, the Coast Guard released some dramatic infrared imagery of the search, as they scanned the area for any survivors. What was visible in some of that video was the back end of the ship, as it apparently disappeared underneath the waves there, also an empty life raft visible, as well as an oil slick, a combination we are told of ethanol and fuel oil that was used to fuel the ship.

Now the ship itself was a Singapore flag ship en route from New York City to Houston. We are told it was carrying 3.5 million gallons of ethanol. In addition to that, there was some 700 metric tons of fuel oil on board.

Now this all took place about 55 miles east of Chincoteague. That is on the Virginia coast there. And the Coast Guard says it will continue its search. And this morning, by the light of day, they will be getting their first look in the daylight at what that area looks like. They said that there's plenty of debris, plenty of the wreckage still very visible. And what they are going to do now is continue in a search and a rescue mode, as they have 18 people still missing.

Now how long will they continue this search? Officials here telling me that that will depend on a number of factors, including the water temperature, the air temperature, and also things like the body mass of the people if they have any idea how much they weighed, who it is that they're looking for, and the probabilities of survival.

Right now, they are focused on the search and rescue mission. I asked about the investigation at this point. Officials here saying that because this took place in international waters, that they will be working with the Singapore authorities on this. And at this point, they have not yet kind of pinned down exactly how that investigation is going to proceed. They say they are simply in a search and rescue mode at this time -- Heidi?

COLLINS: All right, Elaine Quijano, thanks so much for keeping us up to date on that story. We'll check back with you a little bit later on.

SAVIDGE: We started off this broadcast talking about the crisis in Haiti. The Associated Press was reporting that the Haitian president had left. That is a conflicting report with other information that is coming into CNN. Let's try to clarify things.

CNN's Lucia Newman has been in the Haitian capital. She is there now and is on the telephone -- Lucia?

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning. Well, we have just spoken to Leslie Voltaire, who's the president's chief of staff, and personal adviser who tells us "I have not seen the president leave. I don't know of anyone else who has seen him leave, and I understand he was the person that was being quoted as having said that he already had." We also spoke to the president's attorney, who said that it was not true. Back to you.

SAVIDGE: Lucia, any reason why he would have this confusion? Obviously, things must be very fluid politically there in the capital.

NEWMAN: There have been a lot of rumors that have been flying everywhere, who's leaving, what's on file, who's dead, who'd alive. It's the sort of thing that happens in a crisis like this.

There was obviously some confusion. It's not to say that it may not be true or may not be -- in the future at some point, but the people who had allegedly said that the president had already left the palace are now telling us that that is not the case.

SAVIDGE: And what is the situation in the capital on the streets now? Is it quiet? Have there been any lessening of some of the violence there after the plea by the president?

NEWMAN: It's 7:15 in the morning right now. It is a Sunday. At this very moment, it appears to be quiet. And we're out checking that out, in fact, trying to see if things are going to start getting violent again, as they did yesterday, as the hours wore on.

At this time yesterday, there were more than 2,000 people looting the port. Heavily armed men guarding those who were looting, often -- you know, asking for extortion money and pointing guns at the press as well.

We're going to see just what the situation is today. Hopefully, it will be more calm, but the president appealed to his followers to be more calm. It had only a very small effect yesterday.

SAVIDGE: And what about rebel forces themselves? I believe last report we had said there were about 25 miles outside of the capital. Any indication that they may be moving closer today?

NEWMAN: Well, I think that's the -- might be one of the reason for all the rumors. The rebels have said that they were going to give the president "one or two more days," that's a direct quote, to leave the palace before marching on the capital itself. That was said two days ago.

Also today is the birthday of the chief rebel commander, Guy Philippe, who had said on a number of occasions that he wanted to be in Port-au-Prince by his birthday, which is today. So there are a lot people fearing that that could happen at any moment. We have no specific indication that that is the case.

SAVIDGE: All right, Lucia. As we said yesterday, we repeat again today, we will stay very close to you for all the latest information. Thank you very much. Lucia Newman in Port-au-Prince in Haiti -- Heidi?

COLLINS: To Mississippi now. Criminal charges are expected today in the missing family case, but it's still unclear what charges a cousin of Michael Hargon will face. Hargon, his wife Rebecca, and their four-year old son, James Patrick, have been missing since February 14 from their home in Yazoo County. Law enforcement authorities think they're on the brink of solving the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN STRAIN, MISSISSIPPI PUBLIC SAFETY DEPT.: Ernest Lee Hargon will be charged with multiple felony counts tomorrow. And we'll detail those after their filing. At this point, the whereabouts of the Hargons is still unknown. We really, really, really have something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: In addition to the missing family's home in Yazoo County, investigators have now searched the cousin's home near Taylorsville in a tract of land in the Taylorsville area.

As the word of the break in this case came yesterday, CNN's Mike Brooks and a crew traveled to Mississippi. He's joining us now -- or actually next hour, he's going to be updating us on the missing family and the mystery surrounding them.

SAVIDGE: Well, I hear some other stories that are making headlines this morning. In California, police are investigating several reported shootings on a highway near Sacramento. Six people say that their cars were hit by something last Monday, though no bullets have been recovered and fortunately, no injuries.

Security officials are investigating how a man was able to climb to the edge of Seattle's space needle and threaten to jump. The man was coaxed back into the tower, after three hours on the ledge.

Harvard University announces a plan to aid more -- aid more moderate and low income families. The school guarantees students from households making less than $40,000 a year that they won't have to pay tuition, provided they have the grades to get into Harvard in the first place. Harvard will also actively recruit good students from disadvantaged backgrounds.

And the Razzie goes to "Gigli." Did I say that right? The Ben and Jen fiasco took a whopping six golden Raspberry Awards, including worst picture and worst on-screen couple. J-Lo also captured worst actress honors, while Affleck was named worst actor for his performance in "Gigli," "Paycheck" and "Dare Devil." There you have it.

COLLINS: Some great (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

Want to go ahead and fast forward now and take a look at what's happening this week. They call it Super Tuesday for a good reason. 1151 delegates are up for grabs in 10 different states. Also on Tuesday, Kobe Bryant's accuser will likely take the stand for the first time in a closed preliminary hearing. She will be asked about her sexual history.

On Thursday, jury selection begins in Scott Peterson's murder trial. The trial could take five months, but jurors will be allowed to go home every day.

SAVIDGE: All right, speaking of fast forward, let's fast forward now to the third hour of CNN SUNDAY MORNING. We will be debating one of the hot issues this week, gay marriage. And of course, we want you to weigh in. Should gays be able to marry? Tell us what you think. Our address is wam@cnn.com.

COLLINS: Iraqi hospitals may soon become a center of excellence, at least according to one prediction. We'll ask Health and Human Secretary -- Health and Human Service Secretary Tommy Thompson why in just a few minutes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm in this race for the long haul. Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Find out why John Edwards is optimistic heading Super Tuesday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BREAKING NEWS) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Iraq's crumbling medical system, after years of Saddam Hussein and looting in the war, is now in desperate need. The coalition in Iraq is spending nearly $1 billion to rebuild the system. To that end, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson is in Iraq. He's looking over the problems and the progress as well.

Secretary Thompson joins us now live from Baghdad this morning.

Secretary Thompson, thanks so much for your time. We sure do appreciate your being with us this Sunday morning.

TOMMY THOMPSON, SEC. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Well, it's an honor for me to be with you, Heidi. And I really would like to point out that Iraq in the 1970s had a wonderful medical system, was one of the best in the region. It was a magnet for people to come and get taken care of.

And under Saddam Hussein's leadership, he starved it. He was only putting in $16 million a year. And he was only paying 65 cents per Iraqi citizen for medical care.

They didn't even have light bulbs. And he was depriving children, children with cancer, from drugs so that they would drive up the infant mortality, so he could blame the United States for the blockade. It was just an insidious example of a maniac that has really tried to ruin this great country. And now we're trying to rebuild it.

And I got to tell you, it's coming around. And the people, the doctors, and the people are so supportive.

COLLINS: Well, that's certainly exciting to hear, Secretary Thompson. In fact, I know that you've been there for three days. And you had said before going that this, as you mentioned, has -- was actually a center of excellence as far as the medical community was concerned.

It's now looking like quite a bit of U.S. dollars is going to be poured into this. What will be the priorities? You mentioned infant mortality.

THOMPSON: Well, there's no question that infant mortality has got to be number one. There's hardly any treatment whatsoever for mental illness. And so we have to make sure that that is rebuilt. Also, cancer patients are not getting the kind of treatment that they need, because the doctors here were also not only deprived from resources, they were deprived from any kind of training or education. So we got to retrain the professionals. And we got to -- certainly start training nurses.

There's a tremendous scarcity of nurses in the health infrastructure. So all of these things have to be rebuilt, but I want to tell you that the doctors that I have met are dedicated individuals. And the head of the ministry of health is Dr. Abbas, an Iraqi that was driven out of this country 25 years ago to England, and has come back to run it. And he is bringing in doctors from -- that had to be -- had to leave Iraq because of Saddam Hussein, are coming back. And they're bringing new education, new training.

And it's really starting to feel like it's a very viable organization. And people are upbeat and optimistic about the future.

COLLINS: It certainly sounds like at least from what I've read that the Iraqis have been very welcoming to you and the delegation. I am wondering, though, you know we see these pictures of the children and their faces. And you just want to snatch them up and try to help in any way that you can.

You also mentioned mental illness. I can only imagine some of the trauma that these children have faced.

THOMPSON: Right.

COLLINS: And many of them, I would imagine, now orphans. What sort of care can you provide them and will you begin trying to provide them?

THOMPSON: Well, Saddam Hussein didn't want to have anybody realize that there was anybody with any mental illness or defects in this country. And of course, he was -- he had the largest mental problems of any citizen in Iraq. And they just didn't have any institutions, whatsoever, to take care of individuals with mental problems. And so, we're going to have to come over here with some of our individuals from the Department of Health and Human Services.

We're going to have to recruit from some psychiatrists. And some other individuals to come back in and help set up a mental health institution.

But the people are willing to do so. We have some resources from the department. And of course, the supplemental bill that passed Congress is going to allow for the Iraqi mental health institutions to get some dollars necessary to rebuild it.

COLLINS: Let me finally ask you this before we let you go. I know that there has been a lot of talk about, you know, the change of power and the handing over of that power. Now part of this...

THOMPSON: Yes.

COLLINS: ...will involve the Iraqi Ministry of Health as well. How long do you think your best guess will it take before the power can go back to the hospitals as well, so that they may offer patient care to their citizens?

THOMPSON: Well, Dr. Abbas is just a phenomenal individual. He has up and operational 240 hospitals. So that is tremendous. Out of the 1200 clinics, I'd say about 800 to 900 are back in operation, which to me is very strong.

And they're really going to go into preventive care and primary care, because that's what needs to be done first. The people out in the rural areas have got to be able to go into a clinic and be able to have just basic health care taken care of.

And that was deprived of the citizens of Iraq. And now we're going to have to rebuild it. So I think Dr. Abbas is really doing a wonderful job. And I met his team. We went through several hospitals and daycare centers today. And it was really revealing how well that they have done so far, but they got a long ways to go. And we're going to help them.

COLLINS: All right, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson. We appreciate your time this morning. And though there may be a lot of work ahead, it sounds promising. We'd love to check back with you as that progress continues. Thanks so much, sir.

THOMPSON: Thank you very much, Heidi. Bye.

SAVIDGE: Here's an update now on our top story. There was a major development in the Haitian crisis. President Jean Bertrand- Aristide has reportedly left the country. A senior Bush administration official confirms Aristide's departure, but has provided few other details. It remains to be seen what rebel forces will do or how things will remain in the capital of Port-au-Prince. We will continue to keep in touch with CNN'S Lucia Newman there.

COLLINS: As you can see, an awful lot going on this morning. But is now time for weather. I want to get our first check of that 7:25 this morning. Rob, what's going on this Sunday?

SAVIDGE: Morning, Rob.

ROB MARCIANO, METEOROLOGIST: Morning, Marty, Heidi. We have a decent storm that's moving across the mid section of the country, but the eastern third or maybe even the eastern half going to enjoy a really, really nice Sunday, almost feeling like spring, or at least kind of, sort of in a way.

Warm on the east side of the U.S. And in between, we've got that storm that's bringing some snow to the Colorado Rockies. And down to the south, some Texas thunder's going to be the call here with this storm system as it pulls off to the east.

But eastern seaboard warm temperatures south and southwest low for the most parts. That sunshine's going to be in control. New York, D.C., Boston, even as far west as Detroit, although they'll be some clouds. You won't see any moisture in places like Detroit and St. Louis, at least today.

But Oklahoma City, south to Dallas, back west towards well just to the east of Lubkin is where we've seen our line of thunderstorms develop in advance of this particular storm system. We've also seen several -- a couple of feet, actually, of snow in parts of southern Colorado. And they have avalanche warnings out for the San Juan.

So skiers loving it, but back country motorists may not have such an easy go. 34 in Salt Lake. 34 in Denver with more snow expected today, but there are the temperatures in the 60s in D.C. We take you live to Norfolk, Virginia, where WAVY is our affiliate. Look at that bright sunshine. It's 34 degrees. A beautiful day expected. And they could use it, Heidi, and Martin, as you know, they've got the search and rescue deal going on just offshore there. Water temperature in the mid 40s. They should have good visibility and light winds today for that effort throughout the morning.

COLLINS: That's great to hear. All right, Rob. Thanks so very much.

MARCIANO: You bet.

COLLINS: In fact, as Rob was mentioning, a search is underway now off the coast of Virginia. Several members of a tanker crew are still missing this morning. We're going to take you there live coming up next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

SAVIDGE: And here's what else to look for. The consequences of that infamous half-time show. Are the American media crossing the line? We'll debate that with two radio shock jocks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Want to revisit our story on Haiti now. As we've been telling you all morning long, our President Jean Bertrand-Aristide left Haiti this morning. We got that confirmation from Washington. So we do want to go there now.

We have Elise Labott on the line. She is our State Department producer. Want to get that side of the story for you.

Elise, what is the new information that you are hearing from where you are?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi. Well, obviously, this is still all very unfolding. But a very long night for Secretary Powell, other officials working with the French foreign minister, Caribbean leaders and the U.N. to try and find an end to this crisis. State Department officials are confirming that Aristide has left Haiti, but are waiting for an official announcement from the Haitian government, before saying more.

We do know that Secretary of State Colin Powell was intimately involved. A lot of diplomacy going on overnight. If you saw the U.S. position over the last few days, he was continuing to distance himself from Aristide and calling on him to end the violence, really saying this is the crisis of its own making. And it was obviously very clear to Aristide that he did not have U.S. support, as those rebels were marching on towards the capital.

In recent days, you saw U.S. statements by Secretary Powell. Yesterday, a very strong one by the White House, questioning his fitness to govern his country. And in the end, it was pretty clear that no one was coming to his rescue, Heidi.

COLLINS: Elise, any chance you could tell us a little bit more about how Secretary Powell was involved? You said involved intimately. And we do know that after the meeting yesterday between -- the national security advisers, that the pressure from the U.S. had really been stepped up. Was that because of these face to face meetings that we now understand involved Colin Powell?

LABOTT: Well, I don't know if it was like a one minute kind of decision or turning point. Over the last couple of days, Secretary Powell has been really tirelessly working the phones with the French foreign minister, with the leaders of Cara Com (ph), the Caribbean group, with the U.N., and Haitian opposition groups, trying to end this crisis. They really were hoping for that political settlement that Cara Com (ph) plan.

But it was very clear that the opposition was not giving up on its demands that Aristide would leave. The crisis was getting even deeper. It was getting even bloodier. And in the last couple of days, these armed gangs by Aristide, these shemairs (ph) were pillaging the country. And the U.S. really was calling on Aristide, saying you know, the crisis over the last several years in getting worse was a crisis of Aristide's making because these gangs were once loyal to Aristide. They were armed. They were going against the rest of the country. Then he was unleashing new armed gangs. And they just were really questioning his fitness to govern.

And also the opposition, the armed gangs were not giving up on their position that Aristide must go. And people were saying over the last couple days, listen, we don't want to stalemate any longer that's going to lead to even more violence.

Well, obviously the pressure in the last couple days was really stepping up on Aristide to kind of make it -- the hard decisions he needed to make for the best interests of Haiti.

COLLINS: And talk about hard decisions, Elise, as I'm sure you remember in 1990, Aristide had actually become the very first democratically elected president for Haiti. And that was through some (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of the United States of course. This becomes a very sticky and tricky, if you will, situation I imagine to try then to get him to leave power.

LABOTT: Well, it's true. At first they -- the U.S. and its partners really didn't want to say anything about Aristide stepping down because if you remember, the U.S. went in and invaded Haiti in 1994 to install Aristide as the democratically elected leader, after a military coup. But Secretary Powell and many other officials have said since then, he -- Aristide has really failed his people. He really hasn't made good on the promises that he said he would make to end corruption in the Haitian government, to stop intimidation by police, to end political repression, to give people more human rights, and to really help develop his country.

A lot of aid went into the country after that military coup and after they re-installed him. And he really hasn't done much to bring the Haitian people out of the mess they were in when he came. And so, the U.S. kind of, you know, put its hands up and said, you know, we've given you every chance we can give you. And, you know, this crisis is really -- you know, you made your bed in a sense. You really have to, you know, take responsibility for the crisis that you created, Heidi.

COLLINS: All right, of course we will continue to watch this story and appreciate your time this morning. Elise Labott, our State Department producer. Thanks so much, Elise.

SAVIDGE: Here is CNN Suzanne Malveaux, our White House correspondent that broke the news this morning about the departure of Jean Bertrand-Aristide. She joins us now from the White House with more.

And Suzanne, what do we know about the role that the U.S. may have played in this departure?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as Elise had mentioned, it was definitely Secretary Powell, as well as other U.S. officials who are intimately involved overnight and really trying to broker this deal.

But this is something that had been developing over the last several days. Just yesterday, the White House issued a very strongly worded statement, saying that this was Aristide's own making, that this crisis was his responsibility.

We have been told over the last several days, that while the administration publicly was talking about this power sharing plan, which would allow Aristide to remain in power during his term, along with the opponents, and that somehow there'd be a multinational force that would back that up, privately over the last couple of days, State Department officials, as well as people here telling us that they really believed that the best way to handle this was for Aristide to step down, that there was increasing pressure, that that message was delivered to him quite clearly yesterday. And that this is the result of this.

But as you could imagine, the worse case scenario for the Bush administration would have been if Aristide's opponents had either successfully captured or killed the Haitian leader. That really would have put an end to any type of peaceful settlement. And at the same time, would have created this dangerous power vacuum in one of the poorest countries in the world, a country that really is just about 700 miles away from the United States.

So this is something that they're quite relieved about, that this has happened. And believe me, it has required a lot of work, a lot of time, in making sure that this happened.

Big question here is, though, is who is in charge? How will that transitional government work?

SAVIDGE: And exactly that. Is the U.S. committed to anything in sort of brokering this deal, if that's what's been done, as to say all right, here's how we're going to follow up and and try to assist the situation now that he has left?

MALVEAUX: Well, we're certainly waiting for details about just what the level of commitment is. But so far, over the last couple of days, the United States has been intimately involved in trying to work -- it's been working with the Caribbean nations, with the French, and others to make sure that there was A, a peaceful departure of Aristide, but also that there is some sort of structure, some sort of transition, transfer of power inside of that country.

Of course, a lot of the details about how that is going to work, and what kind of force is going to support that is still unknown.

SAVIDGE: And one last thing. Is there is a concern now, as there always has been about a flight of Haitians leaving, especially those that may have been Aristide's supporters and trying to make their way to the U.S.?

MALVEAUX: Well, certainly there is that concern. And as you know, the Bush administration particularly President Bush was under increasing pressure over the last week or so from Democrats, from the Congressional Black Caucus that met with him, to intervene immediately, to send people who would be able to aid the Haitians to -- there was also an appeal, of course, not to bring them back to Haiti, that there was a very dangerous situation. That is something that the administration is very sensitive about. And people are going to keep a very close eye as to how they handle that.

SAVIDGE: And Heidi mentioned this, but I wonder about the awkwardness of the Bush -- the administration's stance in democracy in Haiti, at the same time you ask the first democratically elected president to, you know what? I think you ought to leave.

MALVEAUX: Well, certainly. And that is something that the administration has had to grapple with. It's been a very delicate balancing act. But as we heard from Secretary Powell earlier in the week, it was a clear signal, an indication from him that he was very frustrated with Aristide, did not feel that all of the money and the resources that were put into that country and into his leadership were really paying off in any kind of real way. And that they felt that the best thing for him to do was essentially exit and let democracy work that way.

SAVIDGE: And we will be watching the results.

Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much. Suzanne broke the story this morning for us from the White House on the fact that Jean Bertrand-Aristide has now left Haiti -- Heidi?

COLLINS: That's right. And we do just want to take a moment to remind you of how this went down, if you will, this morning. It was 6:00 a.m. or so when we started learning of some activity in Haiti. Took us a little bit of time to go ahead and confirm that for you, just after 7:00 through the White House. And Suzanne Malveaux, that is, confirming President Jean Bertrand-Aristide leaving Haiti.

Still getting details on how exactly logistically that will happen, but that is what we have learned at this point. And we would like to turn now to Paris, where we have Jesse Jackson standing by. He's known President Aristide for quite some time. Going to give us a little bit more perspective from what he sees and what he has known over the years of this man.

Mr. Jackson, are you with us?

JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: Yes. I heard someone say that the U.S. invaded Haiti in 1994 (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Well, that is not true. There was no invasion. We negotiated (UNINTELLIGIBLE) out because the military had overthrown a democratically elected government, that Aristide was the victor in.

We negotiated him back in. In the 1994, amazingly, the right wing was very impatient. Matter of fact, they resented Clinton negotiating Aristide back in. And the promise in fact never was delivered.

I am upset that our nation disregarded the Monroe Doctrine of protecting a democratically elected government in our own hemisphere. We do not know what we have now.

COLLINS: So Mr. Jackson, let me interrupt if I could. Are you saying you're upset that President Aristide has stepped down?

JACKSON: Well, I'm glad he has stepped away. Whether he has stepped down or not is yet another question. He is still the president. He's just out of the country because our government stood by and offered no support to defend a constitutional government. And that gets in return from undemocratic opposition that would not go to an election process, and another element who brought in M-16s and AK- 47s (UNINTELLIGIBLE) not sure yet. Maybe even drew up (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

What is the new opposition-rebel element? Who are they? We do not really know what that is. All we do know is that there's chaos and poverty in Haiti today. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) recently that we would be so willing to fight for a democracy to create one in Iraq and abandon one in our hemisphere.

COLLINS: If we could, let's go ahead and stick with Haiti, Reverend Jackson, if we could.

JACKSON: Indeed.

COLLINS: Would you tell us a little bit about the last time you spoke with President Aristide, and what those words were?

JACKSON: Spoke with him Friday. I spoke with him yesterday. He was willing to hang on to the very end. He and his wife to defend the constitutionally elected government of Haiti.

The 50 state African unions passed a resolution in Libya Friday. I was there, to support the constitutional government. And our government did a couple of ugly things. One, to bring ships into the waters to deny Haitians refugee status. That was a violation of international law. And give me your tired, your poor, your hungry masses was stood on its head to lock Haitians out of the water into an internal. The Monroe Doctrine was thrown out the window. Refugee policy was thrown out the window. And we get all the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) anyways to undermine or in fact help overthrow that government.

COLLINS: Reverend Jackson, how do you think President Aristide has done in leading his country?

JACKSON: I think given the odds, he has done reasonably well. And when there was a lot of chaos, he signed the agreement to empower the -- a prime -- the opposition would not sign such an agreement. Probably Secretary Powell has said what shall we do? He said well, we hope the opposition will sign the agreement as Aristide has.

Now just suppose they don't. He said well, we'll have to wait and see. Often when you do not sign a peace agreement (UNINTELLIGIBLE) democracy, there are conflict crisis. We offered no resistance that democratically elected government could be overthrown. We offered no resistance.

And on the contrary, we gave

(AUDIO GAP)

...them in. And Aristide had no standing on it.

Where's the CIA when the AK-47s and M-16s were coming in? Or who was given the orders in that bloody coup?

COLLINS: Certainly Reverend Jackson...

JACKSON: Does this open up drug lanes again through Haiti on to Florida? We just don't know.

COLLINS: That's right. And certainly there are many questions surrounding this and the departure of President Jean Bertrand- Aristide.

Reverend Jesse Jackson from Paris this morning. We certainly appreciate your time.

We are going to take -- pardon me, back over to you, Marty.

SAVIDGE: Well, we are going to take a break.

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