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CNN Sunday Morning

Palestinians Bury Rantisi; John Paul II Appeals for Release of Hostages in Iraq

Aired April 18, 2004 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Why did one former Al Qaeda operative voluntarily turn his back on his terror training to become a valuable asset for the U.S.? And how did one filmmaker decide to tell this tale on a terror traitor?
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN SUNDAY MORNING. That story's coming up, but first, here's the news alert.

Thousands of Palestinians marched this morning in Gaza in the funeral procession for Abdel Aziz Rantisi, the second Hamas leader to be killed by Israel in a month. Rantisi and two bodyguards died when an Israeli missile wrecked their car in Gaza City. Hamas sources say a successor to Rantisi has been appointed but so far his identity is a secret.

Pope John Paul II appeals for the release of hostages in Iraq, asking the hostage-takers to show their humanity. The Pope also says he is following events in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East with great sadness.

In Spain, the cabinet of the new Prime Minister Jose Zapatero was sworn in today. The key post of foreign minister went to the career diplomat Miguel Moratinos. Zapatero has threatened to pull Spanish troops out of Iraq unless the U.N. takes charge of the operation. Moratinos will discuss that on Wednesday with Secretary of State Colin Powell.

CALLAWAY: Special prayers this morning in churches in Batavia, Ohio; that's the hometown of P.F.C. Keith Matthew Matt Maupin. He's the American soldier being held hostage there in Iraq.

CNN correspondent Chris Lawrence joining us from that southeastern Ohio town. What can you tell us, Chris?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Catherine, while the community heads to church, Matt Maupin's family remains in seclusion at home right down the street. But everyone is very encouraged by something they heard in that videotape Friday, specifically how Matt Maupin's captors never directly threaten him and offered to trade him for prisoners held by the coalition. And although U.S. officials have reiterated their position not to negotiate with hostage-takers they do say they're doing whatever they can to get him out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LAWRENCE (voice-over): Matt Maupin's family remained in seclusion Saturday, protected by a police guard and dozens of friends who let his mother know, we're here if you need us.

MIA SUPE, MAUPIN FAMILY FRIEND: She told me the other night, she said Mia, I know my kid feels my prayers, he feels everyone's prayers.

LAWRENCE: Friends and family haven't heard anything from Iraq since a videotape aired Friday. In it, Maupin is surrounded by armed men who have taken him prisoner. He looks frightened but physically sound, and close friends of the family say he'll need his strength whenever he makes it home.

MARY LOU PARROTT, LOCAL RESIDENT: He probably won't have any skin on his body from everybody hugging him so much.

LAWRENCE: Local resident Mary Lou Parrott is busy tying up yet another yellow ribbon, just now realizing how complacent she'd become about a fight half a world away.

PARROTT: You know, oh, yes, the war's going on, people are dying, that's a shame. Well, that's not it anymore. Now it's home.

LAWRENCE: And you can see that in the signs above storefronts and flags flying with new relevance to this small town.

PARROTT: When you realize we should have been doing this all along for every hostage. I mean, just because they're not from Batavia doesn't mean we aren't supporting and praying for them.

LAWRENCE: For now, it's only prayers, but friends are confident they'll soon be changing these signs to welcome Matt Maupin home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: And to that end, the reverend Jesse Jackson has now contacted the Maupin family, offering his help to help negotiate his release. And former POW Jessica Lynch has released her own statement urging everyone to keep praying for Private Maupin. Catherine?

CALLAWAY: All right, thank you. That's Chris Lawrence. Thanks, Chris.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, the Bush administration is still holding to a June 30 deadline for sovereignty Iraq. But how will it happen? That's what the Senate Foreign Relations Committee wants to know as it holds hearings on that matter this week.

Joining us now, two members of the committee, Florida Democratic Senator Bill Nelson and Kansas Republican Senator Sam Brownback. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: Good morning.

SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: Good morning. SAN MIGUEL: Senator Nelson, let me go ahead and begin with you. Are you giving the bush administration any kind of credit here for coming out and saying that they like Lakhdar Brahimi's proposal for this caretaker government in Iraq?

NELSON: Well, finally the Bush administration is realizing the reality that we can't continue to have an American face as an occupier in Iraq, and they are now going on bended knee to the United Nations, which if that had been done a long time ago, we would have had a lot of less anguish that we've been going through. Now the question is, when is the United Nations going to actually take over? Mr. Brahimi and Kofi Annan are suggesting that it will be next January, after the so-called elections are to take place. So there's still a big question mark.

SAN MIGUEL: Still a lot of questions and I'm sure that's what a lot of -- both of you gentlemen will be asking during the hearings this week. Senator Brownback, can it be argued the president really didn't have a whole lot of choice in this matter considering that the Iraqi governing council as it is and the idea of regional caucuses weren't generating a lot of enthusiasm with the parties involved there?

BROWNBACK: I wouldn't put that's way at all. The Bush administration has welcomed this report, has welcomed the U.N. in, has asked for them to produce this product and has had people there all along with Mr. Brahimi. I think this is a good move forward. We need to get the control of Iraq back over to the Iraqis. We need the U.N. more engaged and more involved. I think these are all very positive steps that you're seeing taking place now, and I'm hopeful it's going to continue to move that very troubled region into some sense of stability, even though this is going to be a very long-term process to get this done. I think these are positive steps.

SAN MIGUEL: Senator Nelson, doesn't the U.N. need the U.S. just as badly as the U.S. needs the U.N. at this particular situation, especially when it comes to the area of security?

NELSON: In a word, yes. That's the short answer. The longer answer is that the U.N. is not coming in unless they can have their security absolutely assured, and in a situation like Iraq, that's a pretty dicey kind of question. But, the flip side of that is, obviously now people are coming to realize that the U.S. needs the U.N., because you need the representation of the world community of nations to help rebuild Iraq and to stop this kind of insurgency that's going on, lashing out at us, the U.S., for being occupiers.

SAN MIGUEL: Senator Brownback, the governing council there can still balk at all this. They're scheduled to be dissolved by this new plan from Mr. Brahimi. And Al Sistani, the Shiite leader, the very influential Shiite leader there can still throw a monkey wrench in the works. How to keep all of that from happening?

BROWNBACK: I don't know, necessarily, how you keep all of that from happening. I think you're going to see, as we move closer and closer to that June 30 date, you're going to see people stepping up, trying to stop the transfer of power over to an interim Iraqi government. And you may see the Iraqi governing council, Sistani, Sadr, others really trying to stop this from taking place because this is a key critical juncture. Iraq needs to be controlled by Iraqis. We are moving -- we are going to do that. The security arrangements are still going to be provided for by dominantly the U.S., although we have some 30 countries in a coalition. It's still going to be strongly U.S. operation and the U.N. and the U.S. is going to be working increasingly together. I think we're moving in the right direction, even though this has been a bad couple of weeks.

SAN MIGUEL: Senator Brownback, let me stay with you for a second. Tony Blair wants a new U.N. resolution on this matter, and the U.S. has maintained that it already has what it needs from the U.N. to stay in Iraq as long as necessary. Given all that, you know, Tony Blair has done for the U.S. in sticking with President Bush through Iraq and the war on terror, wouldn't it be a good idea to give Tony Blair what he wants in front of the U.N.?

BROWNBACK: If he can get it. I think that's the real question, is what sort of balking will there be at the security council at this, and if he can get a security council resolution, if he can get something through the U.N. in an orderly, timely fashion, fine, but if it's going to delay that transfer of power over to the Iraqis past June 30 I think that would be unwise. We need to get Iraq being governed by Iraqis.

SAN MIGUEL: Senator Nelson, let me end things with you, here. Your party's candidate for president said that the failure to internationalize this conflict is the reason why the Bush administration is having all the trouble. But as you just heard Senator Brownback say, there are 30 countries involved with this coalition and it can be argued France, Germany and Russia were given the opportunity at the very outset to get involved in this. Your thoughts?

NELSON: That's why we need to go back to the United Nations. We need a diplomatic effort that is unparalleled to reach out to Europe, to reach out to other Arab nations in the region, to show them, which they know deep down, that clearly a stabilized Iraq is in their own interests.

Remember, France has 9 percent of its population is Muslim, so a international diplomacy effort then producing a new United Nations resolution will give us a fresh start. And I agree with Sam, I think we are on a step in the right direction, but we got a long way to go on this journey.

SAN MIGUEL: We're going to have to leave it there. Senator Bill Nelson, Democrat from Florida, Senator Sam Brownback, Kansas Republican, thank you both for joining us this morning. We appreciate your time.

BROWNBACK: Thank you.

NELSON: Thank you. CALLAWAY: Stay with us, everyone. On the fast track in the world of terrorism a young boy experiences Al Qaeda training camps and even lives beside Osama Bin Laden and his family. But the life of terror was not to be for the son of Al Qaeda. We will hear from the man who documented his incredible story after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDURAHMAN KHADR, FORMER AL QAEDA: Sat me down with these two people and tried to convince me to become a suicide bomber. He's like, you know, you'd be our pride, in this family you would be our pride if you do this. But I was totally against it. I was like, I believe in fighting someone on the ground when he shoots me and I shoot him. But I don't believe in blowing myself up and killing innocent people. I just don't believe in that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAN MIGUEL: That was just a snippet of a fascinating documentary coming up on PBS called "Son of Al Qaeda." It profiles a young man from Canada whose family moved to Afghanistan so he could train to become an Al Qaeda terrorist, except he didn't want to be a terrorist and eventually he went to work for the CIA. I recently had a chance to talk about all that with filmmaker Terence McKenna.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TERENCE MCKENNA, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: The more you listen to Abdurahman, the more you believe him. And then at the end of the last question, I interviewed him for many hours, and the last question I asked him, would he be willing to pass a polygraph test that he had mentioned that he had passed a polygraph test for the CIA on several occasions and asked him if he would do another one for us and he instantly agreed, which was a pretty strong sign that he was telling the truth and then he passed the polygraph test.

SAN MIGUEL: Let's go back to the very beginning of this family story. They started out in Canada; they started off, you know, living in the west. But by the end of this, they are living in Afghanistan, kind of, you know, next-door neighbors of the Bin Laden family and hating America.

MCKENNA: In the documentary, part of his story is that he went to the training camps, these famous training camps, where you see terrorists, training terrorists going through monkey bars and diving into pools and all of rest of that stuff and went to those training camps and took all of his training and sniper training and small weapons training, larger weapons training, using how to use rocket- propelled grenades and explosives and all that kind of thing. He, Abdurahman Khadr, who is the black sheep son of the family that we're really profiling in this documentary, went through all of that training but he said he was always a bad kid. He was always -- he never followed instructions well. He was always very resistant to authority and that's what saved him, I think, in the end. SAN MIGUEL: And after September 11, when he had heard stories that there was something big happening, something big coming for America, and after September 11 is when he makes his decision to break with his family and try to get away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHADR: When I saw the video, I was like looking at it and everybody was smiling, laughing and I was looking at it. I saw this person jumping out of the building and I didn't think it was funny. I didn't think it was smart. I was thinking about it. What was going through that person's mind when he did it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENNA: He had a real sense of self-preservation, I think, through this whole thing. This is one case where you really look at a rebellious teenager and say perhaps he was the only sane one in the operation.

SAN MIGUEL: That may have been the case here. He comes to the CIA's attention when he is arrested in Afghanistan after September 11 when the whole family is trying to flee and he separates, and they take an interest in him because they hear his story. He ends up going to Guantanamo, to Gitmo, Camp Gitmo down there, and they use him as kind of a spy to talk to some of the other extremists who have been arrested down there. But I'm curious as to, you know, what kind of value do you think he really had for the CIA?

MCKENNA: In the early days, remember when that the American troops first moved into Kabul and into Afghanistan, they were operating blind. They had very little, you know, idea of how Al Qaeda operated in Afghanistan, who lived where, who was doing which job in the organization. And Abdurahman had a pretty good estimation of the Al Qaeda operations. He knew all of the people around Bin Laden; he knew what they looked like. The Americans, for example, didn't know, you know, they had certain names that filled certain positions in Al Qaeda, but they had no pictures of those people and Abdurahman helped them prepare sketches. He worked with an FBI sketch artist to prepare sketches of major figures for whom they didn't have photographs. And so I think he was a pretty good resource early on. In Guantanamo it didn't work out as well as expected. They said that they wanted to put him beside people who were reluctant to talk to them and he could try to, like a jailhouse snitch, effectively trying to get information out of people, and he says that that didn't work out very well and that eventually the CIA realized that was not working out very well and then they came up with another plan for him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAN MIGUEL: According to McKenna, the CIA, indeed, did have another plan for Khadr. He was sent to Bosnia to spy on Al Qaeda operatives there. Khadr soon became disillusioned with the CIA and eventually went back to his family's home in Canada. That Frontline documentary, "Son of Al Qaeda," premiers Thursday, April 22, at 9:00 p.m. Eastern on PBS. CALLAWAY: Stay with us. We'll update the top stories next, as thousands mourn the assassination of Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi in Gaza City. The latest from the Middle East, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CALLAWAY: Look, behind Rob, there's maps.

SAN MIGUEL: Dare we throw it to Rob? Everything looks to be fixed.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: We got it covered in that specialty map which in my eyes is special, but you probably won't be all that impressed.

CALLAWAY: After all that build up, let's see it, Rob.

MARCIANO: We start -- we'll take you to Boston and big rivalry series, although it's not really a rivalry if the Yankees always win in the big games. The Red Sox have won in the last two games. Today at Fenway, at 2:00, the Yanks take on the Red Sox once again. It will be cool, 55-60 degrees. The other big event happening tomorrow, look at the warm-up here, is the Boston marathon; temperatures by the end of the marathon will be getting close to 80 degrees. That's a little bit warmer than those world class run wears like, that's for sure.

Break down the forecast for a couple cities, Boston, New York, and D.C., difference in temperatures, mid 80s in D.C. But everybody gets into the 80s as a good surge of warm air makes its way eastward, Nashville, Atlanta, stay right in the lower 80 with pleasant weather in the next two days. Chicago wind today, thunderstorms tonight, cooler tomorrow, windy in Detroit tomorrow, windy and warm in St. Louis today, 82 degrees expected tomorrow. Wind in the Mile High City of Denver, 66, 63 tomorrow, Phoenix cool, around 80. Seattle rain showers, also rain shower possible in San Francisco and Los Angeles, 63.

Show some love to the west coast. Good morning bay area, KRON is our affiliate. We are looking over North Beach. You see Fisherman's Wharf down there and Alcatraz. 2700 foot ceiling there. Temperatures in the upper 40s. Ever go to North Beach, go to Frankino (ph). It's a little mom and pop joint; Frankino (ph) will serve you up some good Italian grub. Back to you guys in the studio.

SAN MIGUEL: All right, Rob. Thanks a lot. Check with you later.

CALLAWAY: Time to check our top stories now. Tens of thousands of Palestinians in the streets of Gaza for the funeral of Abdel Aziz Rantisi. The Hamas leader was killed yesterday in an Israeli missile attack. The militant group has vowed to retaliate against Israel.

At least three U.S. Marines are dead after an ambush near Iraq's border with Syria. The U.S. military also announced five other deaths in the past 24 hours. Three U.S. Soldiers killed in an ambush in southern Iraq, and two others in separate attacks on their convoys. SAN MIGUEL: Here's your chance to stay on top of what is happening this week. Time to fast forward.

Memorials are planned in Oklahoma City. Monday marks the ninth anniversary of the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building. 168 people were killed in that attack, including 19 children.

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee wants details on how the Bush administration plans to transfer power to Iraqis at the end of June. The committee will begin those hearings Tuesday.

Also Tuesday, the Supreme Court will hear arguments over whether U.S. Courts have the jurisdiction to hear cases brought by Guantanamo Bay detainees.

CALLAWAY: Stay with us, everyone. Your thoughts coming up next. The question at hand, do you think U.S. foreign policy is on the right track? We will read some of your responses after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAN MIGUEL: All morning long we've been asking for your thoughts on our e-mail question, is U.S. foreign policy on the right track. We want to read a coupe of your e-mails shortly.

CALLAWAY: Here's one from Bill. It says, "How can U.S. policy be on any track when it is aloof and ungrounded? It appears we're forcing Americanism on the world. What ever happened to cultural diversity? Saddam was evil, but so are war and imperialism."

SAN MIGUEL: Tony from Bayonne, New Jersey, says, "Yes the U.S. is on the right track. We have to take on terrorism wherever it rears its ugly head, and we have to maintain the will to see this through to the finish."

CALLAWAY: An incredible amount of e-mail this morning. Thank you very much for responding. I have to say, overwhelmingly, we had a number of people who were not pleased with the policy, but thank you for your thoughts.

SAN MIGUEL: We do appreciate your writing in. Plenty more ahead on CNN today. "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY" is up next with Kelly Wallace. And among her guests, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre to talk about the presidential election and NRA convention this weekend.

Did things just go dark in here, or was that just me? Thought it was my contacts.

At 11:00 eastern, CNN LIVE SUNDAY continues with more on the situation in Gaza City.

And then at 11:30 eastern, it's "RELIABLE SOURCES." Can shock jocks survive in post-Janet Jackson America? Arianna Huffington and Jeanine Garofalo are among the guests joining Howard Kurtz to discuss that.

CALLAWAY: It's a little scary when the lights go out.

SAN MIGUEL: It is. Hope it's not my head.

CALLAWAY: That's right. Well, that does it for us. "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY" is coming up next. So we're going to have the headlines for you right after the break. Want to thank you for joining us this Sunday morning, right, Renay?

SAN MIGUEL: We do. Thanks for being with us. We'll see you next weekend.

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Aired April 18, 2004 - 09:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Why did one former Al Qaeda operative voluntarily turn his back on his terror training to become a valuable asset for the U.S.? And how did one filmmaker decide to tell this tale on a terror traitor?
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN SUNDAY MORNING. That story's coming up, but first, here's the news alert.

Thousands of Palestinians marched this morning in Gaza in the funeral procession for Abdel Aziz Rantisi, the second Hamas leader to be killed by Israel in a month. Rantisi and two bodyguards died when an Israeli missile wrecked their car in Gaza City. Hamas sources say a successor to Rantisi has been appointed but so far his identity is a secret.

Pope John Paul II appeals for the release of hostages in Iraq, asking the hostage-takers to show their humanity. The Pope also says he is following events in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East with great sadness.

In Spain, the cabinet of the new Prime Minister Jose Zapatero was sworn in today. The key post of foreign minister went to the career diplomat Miguel Moratinos. Zapatero has threatened to pull Spanish troops out of Iraq unless the U.N. takes charge of the operation. Moratinos will discuss that on Wednesday with Secretary of State Colin Powell.

CALLAWAY: Special prayers this morning in churches in Batavia, Ohio; that's the hometown of P.F.C. Keith Matthew Matt Maupin. He's the American soldier being held hostage there in Iraq.

CNN correspondent Chris Lawrence joining us from that southeastern Ohio town. What can you tell us, Chris?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Catherine, while the community heads to church, Matt Maupin's family remains in seclusion at home right down the street. But everyone is very encouraged by something they heard in that videotape Friday, specifically how Matt Maupin's captors never directly threaten him and offered to trade him for prisoners held by the coalition. And although U.S. officials have reiterated their position not to negotiate with hostage-takers they do say they're doing whatever they can to get him out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LAWRENCE (voice-over): Matt Maupin's family remained in seclusion Saturday, protected by a police guard and dozens of friends who let his mother know, we're here if you need us.

MIA SUPE, MAUPIN FAMILY FRIEND: She told me the other night, she said Mia, I know my kid feels my prayers, he feels everyone's prayers.

LAWRENCE: Friends and family haven't heard anything from Iraq since a videotape aired Friday. In it, Maupin is surrounded by armed men who have taken him prisoner. He looks frightened but physically sound, and close friends of the family say he'll need his strength whenever he makes it home.

MARY LOU PARROTT, LOCAL RESIDENT: He probably won't have any skin on his body from everybody hugging him so much.

LAWRENCE: Local resident Mary Lou Parrott is busy tying up yet another yellow ribbon, just now realizing how complacent she'd become about a fight half a world away.

PARROTT: You know, oh, yes, the war's going on, people are dying, that's a shame. Well, that's not it anymore. Now it's home.

LAWRENCE: And you can see that in the signs above storefronts and flags flying with new relevance to this small town.

PARROTT: When you realize we should have been doing this all along for every hostage. I mean, just because they're not from Batavia doesn't mean we aren't supporting and praying for them.

LAWRENCE: For now, it's only prayers, but friends are confident they'll soon be changing these signs to welcome Matt Maupin home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: And to that end, the reverend Jesse Jackson has now contacted the Maupin family, offering his help to help negotiate his release. And former POW Jessica Lynch has released her own statement urging everyone to keep praying for Private Maupin. Catherine?

CALLAWAY: All right, thank you. That's Chris Lawrence. Thanks, Chris.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, the Bush administration is still holding to a June 30 deadline for sovereignty Iraq. But how will it happen? That's what the Senate Foreign Relations Committee wants to know as it holds hearings on that matter this week.

Joining us now, two members of the committee, Florida Democratic Senator Bill Nelson and Kansas Republican Senator Sam Brownback. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: Good morning.

SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: Good morning. SAN MIGUEL: Senator Nelson, let me go ahead and begin with you. Are you giving the bush administration any kind of credit here for coming out and saying that they like Lakhdar Brahimi's proposal for this caretaker government in Iraq?

NELSON: Well, finally the Bush administration is realizing the reality that we can't continue to have an American face as an occupier in Iraq, and they are now going on bended knee to the United Nations, which if that had been done a long time ago, we would have had a lot of less anguish that we've been going through. Now the question is, when is the United Nations going to actually take over? Mr. Brahimi and Kofi Annan are suggesting that it will be next January, after the so-called elections are to take place. So there's still a big question mark.

SAN MIGUEL: Still a lot of questions and I'm sure that's what a lot of -- both of you gentlemen will be asking during the hearings this week. Senator Brownback, can it be argued the president really didn't have a whole lot of choice in this matter considering that the Iraqi governing council as it is and the idea of regional caucuses weren't generating a lot of enthusiasm with the parties involved there?

BROWNBACK: I wouldn't put that's way at all. The Bush administration has welcomed this report, has welcomed the U.N. in, has asked for them to produce this product and has had people there all along with Mr. Brahimi. I think this is a good move forward. We need to get the control of Iraq back over to the Iraqis. We need the U.N. more engaged and more involved. I think these are all very positive steps that you're seeing taking place now, and I'm hopeful it's going to continue to move that very troubled region into some sense of stability, even though this is going to be a very long-term process to get this done. I think these are positive steps.

SAN MIGUEL: Senator Nelson, doesn't the U.N. need the U.S. just as badly as the U.S. needs the U.N. at this particular situation, especially when it comes to the area of security?

NELSON: In a word, yes. That's the short answer. The longer answer is that the U.N. is not coming in unless they can have their security absolutely assured, and in a situation like Iraq, that's a pretty dicey kind of question. But, the flip side of that is, obviously now people are coming to realize that the U.S. needs the U.N., because you need the representation of the world community of nations to help rebuild Iraq and to stop this kind of insurgency that's going on, lashing out at us, the U.S., for being occupiers.

SAN MIGUEL: Senator Brownback, the governing council there can still balk at all this. They're scheduled to be dissolved by this new plan from Mr. Brahimi. And Al Sistani, the Shiite leader, the very influential Shiite leader there can still throw a monkey wrench in the works. How to keep all of that from happening?

BROWNBACK: I don't know, necessarily, how you keep all of that from happening. I think you're going to see, as we move closer and closer to that June 30 date, you're going to see people stepping up, trying to stop the transfer of power over to an interim Iraqi government. And you may see the Iraqi governing council, Sistani, Sadr, others really trying to stop this from taking place because this is a key critical juncture. Iraq needs to be controlled by Iraqis. We are moving -- we are going to do that. The security arrangements are still going to be provided for by dominantly the U.S., although we have some 30 countries in a coalition. It's still going to be strongly U.S. operation and the U.N. and the U.S. is going to be working increasingly together. I think we're moving in the right direction, even though this has been a bad couple of weeks.

SAN MIGUEL: Senator Brownback, let me stay with you for a second. Tony Blair wants a new U.N. resolution on this matter, and the U.S. has maintained that it already has what it needs from the U.N. to stay in Iraq as long as necessary. Given all that, you know, Tony Blair has done for the U.S. in sticking with President Bush through Iraq and the war on terror, wouldn't it be a good idea to give Tony Blair what he wants in front of the U.N.?

BROWNBACK: If he can get it. I think that's the real question, is what sort of balking will there be at the security council at this, and if he can get a security council resolution, if he can get something through the U.N. in an orderly, timely fashion, fine, but if it's going to delay that transfer of power over to the Iraqis past June 30 I think that would be unwise. We need to get Iraq being governed by Iraqis.

SAN MIGUEL: Senator Nelson, let me end things with you, here. Your party's candidate for president said that the failure to internationalize this conflict is the reason why the Bush administration is having all the trouble. But as you just heard Senator Brownback say, there are 30 countries involved with this coalition and it can be argued France, Germany and Russia were given the opportunity at the very outset to get involved in this. Your thoughts?

NELSON: That's why we need to go back to the United Nations. We need a diplomatic effort that is unparalleled to reach out to Europe, to reach out to other Arab nations in the region, to show them, which they know deep down, that clearly a stabilized Iraq is in their own interests.

Remember, France has 9 percent of its population is Muslim, so a international diplomacy effort then producing a new United Nations resolution will give us a fresh start. And I agree with Sam, I think we are on a step in the right direction, but we got a long way to go on this journey.

SAN MIGUEL: We're going to have to leave it there. Senator Bill Nelson, Democrat from Florida, Senator Sam Brownback, Kansas Republican, thank you both for joining us this morning. We appreciate your time.

BROWNBACK: Thank you.

NELSON: Thank you. CALLAWAY: Stay with us, everyone. On the fast track in the world of terrorism a young boy experiences Al Qaeda training camps and even lives beside Osama Bin Laden and his family. But the life of terror was not to be for the son of Al Qaeda. We will hear from the man who documented his incredible story after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDURAHMAN KHADR, FORMER AL QAEDA: Sat me down with these two people and tried to convince me to become a suicide bomber. He's like, you know, you'd be our pride, in this family you would be our pride if you do this. But I was totally against it. I was like, I believe in fighting someone on the ground when he shoots me and I shoot him. But I don't believe in blowing myself up and killing innocent people. I just don't believe in that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAN MIGUEL: That was just a snippet of a fascinating documentary coming up on PBS called "Son of Al Qaeda." It profiles a young man from Canada whose family moved to Afghanistan so he could train to become an Al Qaeda terrorist, except he didn't want to be a terrorist and eventually he went to work for the CIA. I recently had a chance to talk about all that with filmmaker Terence McKenna.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TERENCE MCKENNA, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: The more you listen to Abdurahman, the more you believe him. And then at the end of the last question, I interviewed him for many hours, and the last question I asked him, would he be willing to pass a polygraph test that he had mentioned that he had passed a polygraph test for the CIA on several occasions and asked him if he would do another one for us and he instantly agreed, which was a pretty strong sign that he was telling the truth and then he passed the polygraph test.

SAN MIGUEL: Let's go back to the very beginning of this family story. They started out in Canada; they started off, you know, living in the west. But by the end of this, they are living in Afghanistan, kind of, you know, next-door neighbors of the Bin Laden family and hating America.

MCKENNA: In the documentary, part of his story is that he went to the training camps, these famous training camps, where you see terrorists, training terrorists going through monkey bars and diving into pools and all of rest of that stuff and went to those training camps and took all of his training and sniper training and small weapons training, larger weapons training, using how to use rocket- propelled grenades and explosives and all that kind of thing. He, Abdurahman Khadr, who is the black sheep son of the family that we're really profiling in this documentary, went through all of that training but he said he was always a bad kid. He was always -- he never followed instructions well. He was always very resistant to authority and that's what saved him, I think, in the end. SAN MIGUEL: And after September 11, when he had heard stories that there was something big happening, something big coming for America, and after September 11 is when he makes his decision to break with his family and try to get away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHADR: When I saw the video, I was like looking at it and everybody was smiling, laughing and I was looking at it. I saw this person jumping out of the building and I didn't think it was funny. I didn't think it was smart. I was thinking about it. What was going through that person's mind when he did it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENNA: He had a real sense of self-preservation, I think, through this whole thing. This is one case where you really look at a rebellious teenager and say perhaps he was the only sane one in the operation.

SAN MIGUEL: That may have been the case here. He comes to the CIA's attention when he is arrested in Afghanistan after September 11 when the whole family is trying to flee and he separates, and they take an interest in him because they hear his story. He ends up going to Guantanamo, to Gitmo, Camp Gitmo down there, and they use him as kind of a spy to talk to some of the other extremists who have been arrested down there. But I'm curious as to, you know, what kind of value do you think he really had for the CIA?

MCKENNA: In the early days, remember when that the American troops first moved into Kabul and into Afghanistan, they were operating blind. They had very little, you know, idea of how Al Qaeda operated in Afghanistan, who lived where, who was doing which job in the organization. And Abdurahman had a pretty good estimation of the Al Qaeda operations. He knew all of the people around Bin Laden; he knew what they looked like. The Americans, for example, didn't know, you know, they had certain names that filled certain positions in Al Qaeda, but they had no pictures of those people and Abdurahman helped them prepare sketches. He worked with an FBI sketch artist to prepare sketches of major figures for whom they didn't have photographs. And so I think he was a pretty good resource early on. In Guantanamo it didn't work out as well as expected. They said that they wanted to put him beside people who were reluctant to talk to them and he could try to, like a jailhouse snitch, effectively trying to get information out of people, and he says that that didn't work out very well and that eventually the CIA realized that was not working out very well and then they came up with another plan for him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAN MIGUEL: According to McKenna, the CIA, indeed, did have another plan for Khadr. He was sent to Bosnia to spy on Al Qaeda operatives there. Khadr soon became disillusioned with the CIA and eventually went back to his family's home in Canada. That Frontline documentary, "Son of Al Qaeda," premiers Thursday, April 22, at 9:00 p.m. Eastern on PBS. CALLAWAY: Stay with us. We'll update the top stories next, as thousands mourn the assassination of Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi in Gaza City. The latest from the Middle East, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CALLAWAY: Look, behind Rob, there's maps.

SAN MIGUEL: Dare we throw it to Rob? Everything looks to be fixed.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: We got it covered in that specialty map which in my eyes is special, but you probably won't be all that impressed.

CALLAWAY: After all that build up, let's see it, Rob.

MARCIANO: We start -- we'll take you to Boston and big rivalry series, although it's not really a rivalry if the Yankees always win in the big games. The Red Sox have won in the last two games. Today at Fenway, at 2:00, the Yanks take on the Red Sox once again. It will be cool, 55-60 degrees. The other big event happening tomorrow, look at the warm-up here, is the Boston marathon; temperatures by the end of the marathon will be getting close to 80 degrees. That's a little bit warmer than those world class run wears like, that's for sure.

Break down the forecast for a couple cities, Boston, New York, and D.C., difference in temperatures, mid 80s in D.C. But everybody gets into the 80s as a good surge of warm air makes its way eastward, Nashville, Atlanta, stay right in the lower 80 with pleasant weather in the next two days. Chicago wind today, thunderstorms tonight, cooler tomorrow, windy in Detroit tomorrow, windy and warm in St. Louis today, 82 degrees expected tomorrow. Wind in the Mile High City of Denver, 66, 63 tomorrow, Phoenix cool, around 80. Seattle rain showers, also rain shower possible in San Francisco and Los Angeles, 63.

Show some love to the west coast. Good morning bay area, KRON is our affiliate. We are looking over North Beach. You see Fisherman's Wharf down there and Alcatraz. 2700 foot ceiling there. Temperatures in the upper 40s. Ever go to North Beach, go to Frankino (ph). It's a little mom and pop joint; Frankino (ph) will serve you up some good Italian grub. Back to you guys in the studio.

SAN MIGUEL: All right, Rob. Thanks a lot. Check with you later.

CALLAWAY: Time to check our top stories now. Tens of thousands of Palestinians in the streets of Gaza for the funeral of Abdel Aziz Rantisi. The Hamas leader was killed yesterday in an Israeli missile attack. The militant group has vowed to retaliate against Israel.

At least three U.S. Marines are dead after an ambush near Iraq's border with Syria. The U.S. military also announced five other deaths in the past 24 hours. Three U.S. Soldiers killed in an ambush in southern Iraq, and two others in separate attacks on their convoys. SAN MIGUEL: Here's your chance to stay on top of what is happening this week. Time to fast forward.

Memorials are planned in Oklahoma City. Monday marks the ninth anniversary of the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building. 168 people were killed in that attack, including 19 children.

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee wants details on how the Bush administration plans to transfer power to Iraqis at the end of June. The committee will begin those hearings Tuesday.

Also Tuesday, the Supreme Court will hear arguments over whether U.S. Courts have the jurisdiction to hear cases brought by Guantanamo Bay detainees.

CALLAWAY: Stay with us, everyone. Your thoughts coming up next. The question at hand, do you think U.S. foreign policy is on the right track? We will read some of your responses after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAN MIGUEL: All morning long we've been asking for your thoughts on our e-mail question, is U.S. foreign policy on the right track. We want to read a coupe of your e-mails shortly.

CALLAWAY: Here's one from Bill. It says, "How can U.S. policy be on any track when it is aloof and ungrounded? It appears we're forcing Americanism on the world. What ever happened to cultural diversity? Saddam was evil, but so are war and imperialism."

SAN MIGUEL: Tony from Bayonne, New Jersey, says, "Yes the U.S. is on the right track. We have to take on terrorism wherever it rears its ugly head, and we have to maintain the will to see this through to the finish."

CALLAWAY: An incredible amount of e-mail this morning. Thank you very much for responding. I have to say, overwhelmingly, we had a number of people who were not pleased with the policy, but thank you for your thoughts.

SAN MIGUEL: We do appreciate your writing in. Plenty more ahead on CNN today. "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY" is up next with Kelly Wallace. And among her guests, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre to talk about the presidential election and NRA convention this weekend.

Did things just go dark in here, or was that just me? Thought it was my contacts.

At 11:00 eastern, CNN LIVE SUNDAY continues with more on the situation in Gaza City.

And then at 11:30 eastern, it's "RELIABLE SOURCES." Can shock jocks survive in post-Janet Jackson America? Arianna Huffington and Jeanine Garofalo are among the guests joining Howard Kurtz to discuss that.

CALLAWAY: It's a little scary when the lights go out.

SAN MIGUEL: It is. Hope it's not my head.

CALLAWAY: That's right. Well, that does it for us. "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY" is coming up next. So we're going to have the headlines for you right after the break. Want to thank you for joining us this Sunday morning, right, Renay?

SAN MIGUEL: We do. Thanks for being with us. We'll see you next weekend.

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