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CNN Sunday Morning

Secret Plan to Get Prisoners To Cooperate Allegedly Approved by Pentagon; Fighting Your Phobias

Aired May 16, 2004 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: The next hour of CNN SUNDAY MORNING begins right now.
Hi everybody, from the CNN Center in Atlanta, this is CNN SUNDAY MORNING for May 16. Nice to have you with us. I'm Thomas Roberts.

SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Sophia Choi. Thank you so much for starting your Sunday with us.

We have a lot of news in store for you this hour. Fresh allegations in the prisoner abuse scandal. A new report talks of a secret plan to get prisoners to cooperate, allegedly approved by top Pentagon officials. The Pentagon denies it. We'll have details.

And separate and equal: On the eve of the 50th anniversary of "Brown vs. the Board of Education," we will show are you how some African-American families are seeking security in self-segregation.

And are you afraid of this? We'll show you how to fight your phobias.

First, our headlines.

ROBERTS: Counter-demonstrations marked the Arab/Israeli conflict. In Tel Aviv, thousands of Israelis rallied to support pulling troops and settlers out of Gaza. Palestinians demonstrated in Gaza and the West Bank, denouncing the founding of Israel 56 years ago.

In southern Afghanistan, suspected insurgents attacked a coalition combat patrol, killing one American soldier and slightly wounding two others. The U.S. military says one anti-coalition fighter was detained after that attack.

In Iraq, fighting continues in the city of Karbala. Coalition forces are battling the militia of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. It is the fifth day of fighting in the city as coalition troops try to disband the cleric's army.

The Bush administration will today announce faster approval of AIDS drug combination. That could mean lower cost treatment in Africa. The news system is open to foreign makers of generic drugs. Approved drugs would qualify for purchase under $15 billion U.S. global AIDS program. CHOI: President Bush is facing renewed criticism of his handling of Iraq in the wake of the prison abuse scandal and the beheading of an American civilian. Both sides in the presidential campaign now accuse the other of playing politics with Iraq. White House Correspondent Dana Bash joins us live with more.

Good morning, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Sophia.

For a while, you know, as things got worse in Iraq, the president's poll numbers actually did not reflect the bad news coming from Iraq. In fact, there was a question of why, for a while, the president's numbers seemed to stay level as the news from Iraq seemed to get much, much worse.

About five and a half months before the election, the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq, and the violence there seems to have taken a toll on the president's standing. A number of the polls out this week, including CNN's own, has the president's job approval rating at the lowest point of his presidency. A new poll out this weekend is no different. There you see it, a "Newsweek" poll shows the president at 42 percent, that is the lowest so far taken by "Newsweek".

When you talk to Bush campaigns throughout -- aides throughout the months they always point to 50 percent mark for the president's approval rating as sort of the danger zone that they never want to go below. And that is because they use history as their guide.

Let's take a look at some of the numbers for past presidents, incumbent presidents, and how they fare at this point in their presidency. Now, the president is obviously, 42 -- not quite as low as other two recent presidents who have been defeated, the president's father was at 35 percent at this point in his presidency, Jimmy Carter, 38 percent, But he certainly is getting closer.

Even though there are positive signs for the president, for example, the economy is getting better. The past two months' job numbers have been quite good. And that's something the White House had been looking forward to.

Now, Bush campaign aides simply concede that the bad news coming out of Iraq is taking its toll on Americans, and Americans are now in a funk according to one senior Bush aide and they are having trouble overcoming that politically.

However, they are stepping up their political attacks on the president's opponent, saying he is simply trying to take advantage of the headlines, if you will, and also saying he is somebody who changes with the political winds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL ROVE, BUSH POLITICAL ADVISER: John Kerry and the war on terror has looked at every issue, every question, on the basis of what the politics of the moment have required. When he thought it was in his political interest to support the war, he voted to authorize the use of force. When in a Democratic primary facing an anti-war candidate he thought it was in his political interest to oppose the war, he opposed the war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That was, of course, the president's top political adviser Karl Rove. Democrats shot back, that was from yesterday, they shot back saying he was the man in charge of devising the strategy against John Kerry and attacking him on national security. So they say he is in no position to call John Kerry somebody who politicizes the issue.

Of course, the Bush campaign says this is a contest between the president and John Kerry, and they will continue to point out that they believe that John Kerry tries to overplay his hand with regard to how current events are going in Iraq.

Sophia?

CHOI: Dana Bash at the White House, thank you so much.

BASH: Thank you.

ROBERTS: There are new allegations in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. In an article in "The New Yorker" magazine, journalist Seymour Hersh reports that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the expansion of a secret program that had been focused on the hunt for al Qaeda.

Hersh quotes several past and present American intelligence officials saying the operation encouraged physical coercion and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners. He also quotes a former intelligence official as saying Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers were among a select group of knowledge of the program.

The article says, quote, "The goal was to keep the operation protected," and it goes on to quote that official. "We're not going to read more people than necessary into our heart of darkness," he said." The rules are 'grab whom you must, do what you want.'"

A pentagon spokesman denies the claims saying, "Assertions apparently being made in the latest "New Yorker" article on Abu Ghraib and the abuse of Iraqi detainees are outlandish, conspiratorial, and filled with error and anonymous conjecture."

CHOI: Israel's supreme court rejected a request by Palestinian home owners to halt Israeli demolitions in southern Gaza. The United Nations says Israeli bulldozers destroyed 88 homes last week, leaving more than 1,000 Palestinians homeless.

Israel says it's destroying only homes being used by militants to stage attacks. Secretary of State Colin Powell speaking at the World Economic Forum in Jordan says the U.S. opposes the demolition of homes in Gaza.

ROBERTS: For more about what's going on at that Economic Forum in Jordan, want to check in with our Senior International Correspondent Walter Rodgers; he joins us now live from the Dead Sea Coast in Jordan with more.

Walter?

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Thomas, Secretary of State Colin Powell spent 36 hours at the World Economic Forum, which is dominated by Middle East and mostly Arab officials. He labored mightily to try to reverse the Bush administration's overwhelmingly negative image in the Arab world.

After the war in Iraq, after the abuse of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq, and also after allowing three years of stagnation in the Israeli/Palestinian peace process.

Indeed, throughout this Arab leaders reminded the American secretary of State that if there's to be progress, political reform, anything hopeful in the Middle East the Americans have to take the lead or retake the lead in the Israeli/Palestinian peace process.

Secretary Powell, however, said that the blame, at least in the current situation, lies not with the Americans, but with none other than Yasser Arafat, particularly Arafat's rather unhelpful statement, according to Powell yesterday that it's time for Palestinians to terrorize their enemies.

Still, even America's friends in this region, like Jordan's foreign minister, Marwan Muasher, said that Mr. Powell has to listen to people around here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARWAN MUASHER, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: The image of the United States in the Middle East has never been lower. We all need to do a lot in order to help this. We, as allies of the United States, as friends of the United States, in Jordan, also do not want to see this happening.

The United States is a very important player, whether it is under Arab/Israeli front, or on Iraq. And it's very important for the United States, I think, to look very carefully at what is happening in the region and to take whatever corrective steps it needs to take in order to reverse the situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RODGERS: The American secretary of State came here seeking reconciliation and rapprochement, largely with the Arab world, but he appears to have left the Middle East unchanged as he found it.

One Arab analyst said to me a short while ago, the Americans continue to dig themselves deeper and deeper into a hole in the Middle East, and the only way out, according to him, was the Americans just continue digging deeper and deeper.

Thomas? ROBERTS: Walter Rodgers live for us in Jordan.

Walter, thanks very much.

CHOI: Monday marks 50 years since the historic "Brown vs. Board of Education" ruling. But segregation isn't gone. We'll talk to some African-Americans who choose a separate existence. They'll tell us why.

ROBERTS: If this scares the be-jesus out of you, you're not alone. "House Call" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes on the topic of phobias and why we have them, and some potential treatments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHOI: Tomorrow marks the 50th anniversary of "Brown vs. the Board of Education", when the Supreme Court made it illegal to segregate America's public schools. But five decades later many families are choosing to separate their children and themselves by living in voluntarily segregated neighborhoods. Why?

We put that question to a group of African-Americans, who at least, for now are living in a world they hope is separate, but equal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, in essence, have chosen to live in a one-race community, why?

SANDIE JO DENARD, SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER: I live in a diverse community and I think you can have a same-race community that is diverse. So I think it's misleading if you just say everybody that lives in the neighborhood is brown. That means they're the same, because they're not.

CARLOS CARTHEN, BANK VICE PRESIDENT: I came to Atlanta about three years ago and unbeknownst to me I was unaware originally it was a predominantly African-American subdivision.

However, after thinking it over I thought it would be a great experience for my children to understand and to finally have an opportunity to live within a African-American community, because they never had the opportunity. Pretty much being in the Midwest, we was always 5 percent or 10 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In segregated schools or communities you don't get to know each other, talking about communities as a whole. How do you feel about that?

CHANDRA ROBINSON, SOCIAL WORKER: Somewhat I don't agree to that because with the activities brings the communities together, where children from this side of Stone Mountain meets the children from the north side of Stone Mountain. I think the difference that the activities bring us together and we so get an opportunity to meet. Because I've met a lot of mothers through my son's football team at Central Dekalb (ph).

People that actually I see them in the grocery stores but I've never said anything to them. When I saw them out there and they were on my son's team, I was able to get to meet more people. My social calendar had started to grow at that point.

So I do think that even though they're in segregated schools and you still have an opportunity to meet other people through their social activities, through your children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell everybody else what you said about the year that you went, you know, you experienced integration?

CARTHEN: I think it was a great benefit to me because the schools that we were bused from my neighborhood were in the wealthiest subdivisions in Wichita, Kansas. Without (ph) integration I never would have learned how to interact. I would have never understood what it was like for families to have the -- kids to have the BMWs and why they had them.

Those exposures really established my goals and objectives and what I wanted my children to have. It also taught me that I had to compete not with my race, but with society.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The amenities that your segregated community get, as compared to the same economic income in a white community seem to be drastically different.

TERRY PARKS, UNIT SUPERVISOR: We don't have, you know, a lot of the other higher end stores out here and I remember when they were building it and the CEO said, longer do we have to travel to Buckhead to do whatever. I'm still traveling to those stores to get, you know, certain items.

DENNARD: We have to be willing to take the risk. Too often you work so hard to have that six figure. When is there time to make a city council meeting or a community planning meeting? It's planning. It's absolutely planning.

Who's doing the planning for our communities? If we're not involved in the planning process, you basically get what's there. The mall is going to cater to what sells. I don't think it's racial. I think it's green.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are schools still separate and unequal?

REV. CATHERINE GILLIAN, PASTOR: When we began, the booster club my children were in the white schools the way parents gave up time and money to make sure whatever their child needed in that class classroom was there. And we have the resources to do the same thing to transform our local schools.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you had to do it all over again, would you choose to live if a predominantly one-race community, and why or why not?

ROBINSON: If I had to do it all over again, I would prefer to have them more diverse school system community -- if that was a choice that where I could make that choice and do that.

DENARD: I probably would stay in a predominantly African- American community. There are white neighbors that are moving into my community. And that's one of the advantages of in-town living, I think, you're more likely to have a more diverse community. So while it is predominantly African-American, we have white neighbors, always have.

CARTHEN: I want made kids to get this African-American experience. And it was worth that that I did that, because they never experienced it. But at the same time, they needed it. But if I had to do it over again I would rather them to be living in a diversified community, because I think it's -- once they are leaving and they go on for their own careers, they're dealing with reality and life.

And life is many colors. Therefore, I think it's more important that we learn to live together than to live separately.

PARKS: I probably would do the same living the same -- living in the same spot. I would like more diversity but I think, again, it's important that you can teach -- you can teach diversity, you know, at home. You can talk to your kids about that.

GILLIAN: I wouldn't change a thing. I think it's important that you recognize what your children are lacking and then as a parent you make sure that they have those experiences and exposures that prepare them to be productive citizens. And really embracing what God has created as different in all of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHOI: Tonight CNN presents has more on the aftermath of "Brown vs. the Board of Education". The special report looks at the education gap in America. It's called "The Gap: 50 years after Brown vs. the Board of Education". Tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

Elvis is still out there somewhere, many believe. And so, too, is the first man to impersonate the king, quirky comic Andy Kaufmann. The show is a sellout, 250 a pop for Kaufmann's comeback show at the House of Blues in LA, if he is still alive. Kaufmann supposedly died of lung cancer, 1984, although he never smoked. Before that he openly mused about staging his own death and reappearing 20 years later. We'll see if he does that tonight.

ROBERTS: I have a prediction about tomorrow. If this happens then we'll be covering it.

CHOI: Absolutely. Are you kidding me?

ROBERTS: No conspiracy theory here. Time to talk about the weather.

(WEATHER FORECAST)

ROBERTS: A quick look at headlines for you now. At midnight tonight some city halls in Massachusetts will begin processing same- sex marriage licenses. Six months ago the state supreme court ruled in favor of such marriages being legal.

In Colorado three people in a car were killed when a 40 ton steel girder fell from a highway overpass. An investigation into the collapse is looking at possible criminal activity, but police say that's not likely.

CHOI: But first, we take a look at your captions. This ostrich in Taiwan escaped from a petting zoo and the police are trying to catch him. We don't know if that ever actually happened, whether the police caught up with this ostrich.

But we do know we had some witty comments about this picture. Here's one from Beth, Alexandria, Virginia.

"Pardon me, do you have a Grey Poupon?

Love that.

ROBERTS: All right, this one coming into us from AJ In Florida --

"I said pull over. Now! And don't try to stick you head in the sand, you were going 55 in a 35 mph zone, and you know it!"

We don't know if they did catch the ostrich. As you can see in the picture, the police officer really reaching out trying to grab a hold. In the background you can see two more police officers on their motorbikes.

CHOI: Yes, he had them gunning after him. Very nice.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 16, 2004 - 08:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: The next hour of CNN SUNDAY MORNING begins right now.
Hi everybody, from the CNN Center in Atlanta, this is CNN SUNDAY MORNING for May 16. Nice to have you with us. I'm Thomas Roberts.

SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Sophia Choi. Thank you so much for starting your Sunday with us.

We have a lot of news in store for you this hour. Fresh allegations in the prisoner abuse scandal. A new report talks of a secret plan to get prisoners to cooperate, allegedly approved by top Pentagon officials. The Pentagon denies it. We'll have details.

And separate and equal: On the eve of the 50th anniversary of "Brown vs. the Board of Education," we will show are you how some African-American families are seeking security in self-segregation.

And are you afraid of this? We'll show you how to fight your phobias.

First, our headlines.

ROBERTS: Counter-demonstrations marked the Arab/Israeli conflict. In Tel Aviv, thousands of Israelis rallied to support pulling troops and settlers out of Gaza. Palestinians demonstrated in Gaza and the West Bank, denouncing the founding of Israel 56 years ago.

In southern Afghanistan, suspected insurgents attacked a coalition combat patrol, killing one American soldier and slightly wounding two others. The U.S. military says one anti-coalition fighter was detained after that attack.

In Iraq, fighting continues in the city of Karbala. Coalition forces are battling the militia of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. It is the fifth day of fighting in the city as coalition troops try to disband the cleric's army.

The Bush administration will today announce faster approval of AIDS drug combination. That could mean lower cost treatment in Africa. The news system is open to foreign makers of generic drugs. Approved drugs would qualify for purchase under $15 billion U.S. global AIDS program. CHOI: President Bush is facing renewed criticism of his handling of Iraq in the wake of the prison abuse scandal and the beheading of an American civilian. Both sides in the presidential campaign now accuse the other of playing politics with Iraq. White House Correspondent Dana Bash joins us live with more.

Good morning, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Sophia.

For a while, you know, as things got worse in Iraq, the president's poll numbers actually did not reflect the bad news coming from Iraq. In fact, there was a question of why, for a while, the president's numbers seemed to stay level as the news from Iraq seemed to get much, much worse.

About five and a half months before the election, the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq, and the violence there seems to have taken a toll on the president's standing. A number of the polls out this week, including CNN's own, has the president's job approval rating at the lowest point of his presidency. A new poll out this weekend is no different. There you see it, a "Newsweek" poll shows the president at 42 percent, that is the lowest so far taken by "Newsweek".

When you talk to Bush campaigns throughout -- aides throughout the months they always point to 50 percent mark for the president's approval rating as sort of the danger zone that they never want to go below. And that is because they use history as their guide.

Let's take a look at some of the numbers for past presidents, incumbent presidents, and how they fare at this point in their presidency. Now, the president is obviously, 42 -- not quite as low as other two recent presidents who have been defeated, the president's father was at 35 percent at this point in his presidency, Jimmy Carter, 38 percent, But he certainly is getting closer.

Even though there are positive signs for the president, for example, the economy is getting better. The past two months' job numbers have been quite good. And that's something the White House had been looking forward to.

Now, Bush campaign aides simply concede that the bad news coming out of Iraq is taking its toll on Americans, and Americans are now in a funk according to one senior Bush aide and they are having trouble overcoming that politically.

However, they are stepping up their political attacks on the president's opponent, saying he is simply trying to take advantage of the headlines, if you will, and also saying he is somebody who changes with the political winds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL ROVE, BUSH POLITICAL ADVISER: John Kerry and the war on terror has looked at every issue, every question, on the basis of what the politics of the moment have required. When he thought it was in his political interest to support the war, he voted to authorize the use of force. When in a Democratic primary facing an anti-war candidate he thought it was in his political interest to oppose the war, he opposed the war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That was, of course, the president's top political adviser Karl Rove. Democrats shot back, that was from yesterday, they shot back saying he was the man in charge of devising the strategy against John Kerry and attacking him on national security. So they say he is in no position to call John Kerry somebody who politicizes the issue.

Of course, the Bush campaign says this is a contest between the president and John Kerry, and they will continue to point out that they believe that John Kerry tries to overplay his hand with regard to how current events are going in Iraq.

Sophia?

CHOI: Dana Bash at the White House, thank you so much.

BASH: Thank you.

ROBERTS: There are new allegations in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. In an article in "The New Yorker" magazine, journalist Seymour Hersh reports that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the expansion of a secret program that had been focused on the hunt for al Qaeda.

Hersh quotes several past and present American intelligence officials saying the operation encouraged physical coercion and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners. He also quotes a former intelligence official as saying Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers were among a select group of knowledge of the program.

The article says, quote, "The goal was to keep the operation protected," and it goes on to quote that official. "We're not going to read more people than necessary into our heart of darkness," he said." The rules are 'grab whom you must, do what you want.'"

A pentagon spokesman denies the claims saying, "Assertions apparently being made in the latest "New Yorker" article on Abu Ghraib and the abuse of Iraqi detainees are outlandish, conspiratorial, and filled with error and anonymous conjecture."

CHOI: Israel's supreme court rejected a request by Palestinian home owners to halt Israeli demolitions in southern Gaza. The United Nations says Israeli bulldozers destroyed 88 homes last week, leaving more than 1,000 Palestinians homeless.

Israel says it's destroying only homes being used by militants to stage attacks. Secretary of State Colin Powell speaking at the World Economic Forum in Jordan says the U.S. opposes the demolition of homes in Gaza.

ROBERTS: For more about what's going on at that Economic Forum in Jordan, want to check in with our Senior International Correspondent Walter Rodgers; he joins us now live from the Dead Sea Coast in Jordan with more.

Walter?

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Thomas, Secretary of State Colin Powell spent 36 hours at the World Economic Forum, which is dominated by Middle East and mostly Arab officials. He labored mightily to try to reverse the Bush administration's overwhelmingly negative image in the Arab world.

After the war in Iraq, after the abuse of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq, and also after allowing three years of stagnation in the Israeli/Palestinian peace process.

Indeed, throughout this Arab leaders reminded the American secretary of State that if there's to be progress, political reform, anything hopeful in the Middle East the Americans have to take the lead or retake the lead in the Israeli/Palestinian peace process.

Secretary Powell, however, said that the blame, at least in the current situation, lies not with the Americans, but with none other than Yasser Arafat, particularly Arafat's rather unhelpful statement, according to Powell yesterday that it's time for Palestinians to terrorize their enemies.

Still, even America's friends in this region, like Jordan's foreign minister, Marwan Muasher, said that Mr. Powell has to listen to people around here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARWAN MUASHER, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: The image of the United States in the Middle East has never been lower. We all need to do a lot in order to help this. We, as allies of the United States, as friends of the United States, in Jordan, also do not want to see this happening.

The United States is a very important player, whether it is under Arab/Israeli front, or on Iraq. And it's very important for the United States, I think, to look very carefully at what is happening in the region and to take whatever corrective steps it needs to take in order to reverse the situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RODGERS: The American secretary of State came here seeking reconciliation and rapprochement, largely with the Arab world, but he appears to have left the Middle East unchanged as he found it.

One Arab analyst said to me a short while ago, the Americans continue to dig themselves deeper and deeper into a hole in the Middle East, and the only way out, according to him, was the Americans just continue digging deeper and deeper.

Thomas? ROBERTS: Walter Rodgers live for us in Jordan.

Walter, thanks very much.

CHOI: Monday marks 50 years since the historic "Brown vs. Board of Education" ruling. But segregation isn't gone. We'll talk to some African-Americans who choose a separate existence. They'll tell us why.

ROBERTS: If this scares the be-jesus out of you, you're not alone. "House Call" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes on the topic of phobias and why we have them, and some potential treatments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHOI: Tomorrow marks the 50th anniversary of "Brown vs. the Board of Education", when the Supreme Court made it illegal to segregate America's public schools. But five decades later many families are choosing to separate their children and themselves by living in voluntarily segregated neighborhoods. Why?

We put that question to a group of African-Americans, who at least, for now are living in a world they hope is separate, but equal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, in essence, have chosen to live in a one-race community, why?

SANDIE JO DENARD, SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER: I live in a diverse community and I think you can have a same-race community that is diverse. So I think it's misleading if you just say everybody that lives in the neighborhood is brown. That means they're the same, because they're not.

CARLOS CARTHEN, BANK VICE PRESIDENT: I came to Atlanta about three years ago and unbeknownst to me I was unaware originally it was a predominantly African-American subdivision.

However, after thinking it over I thought it would be a great experience for my children to understand and to finally have an opportunity to live within a African-American community, because they never had the opportunity. Pretty much being in the Midwest, we was always 5 percent or 10 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In segregated schools or communities you don't get to know each other, talking about communities as a whole. How do you feel about that?

CHANDRA ROBINSON, SOCIAL WORKER: Somewhat I don't agree to that because with the activities brings the communities together, where children from this side of Stone Mountain meets the children from the north side of Stone Mountain. I think the difference that the activities bring us together and we so get an opportunity to meet. Because I've met a lot of mothers through my son's football team at Central Dekalb (ph).

People that actually I see them in the grocery stores but I've never said anything to them. When I saw them out there and they were on my son's team, I was able to get to meet more people. My social calendar had started to grow at that point.

So I do think that even though they're in segregated schools and you still have an opportunity to meet other people through their social activities, through your children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell everybody else what you said about the year that you went, you know, you experienced integration?

CARTHEN: I think it was a great benefit to me because the schools that we were bused from my neighborhood were in the wealthiest subdivisions in Wichita, Kansas. Without (ph) integration I never would have learned how to interact. I would have never understood what it was like for families to have the -- kids to have the BMWs and why they had them.

Those exposures really established my goals and objectives and what I wanted my children to have. It also taught me that I had to compete not with my race, but with society.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The amenities that your segregated community get, as compared to the same economic income in a white community seem to be drastically different.

TERRY PARKS, UNIT SUPERVISOR: We don't have, you know, a lot of the other higher end stores out here and I remember when they were building it and the CEO said, longer do we have to travel to Buckhead to do whatever. I'm still traveling to those stores to get, you know, certain items.

DENNARD: We have to be willing to take the risk. Too often you work so hard to have that six figure. When is there time to make a city council meeting or a community planning meeting? It's planning. It's absolutely planning.

Who's doing the planning for our communities? If we're not involved in the planning process, you basically get what's there. The mall is going to cater to what sells. I don't think it's racial. I think it's green.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are schools still separate and unequal?

REV. CATHERINE GILLIAN, PASTOR: When we began, the booster club my children were in the white schools the way parents gave up time and money to make sure whatever their child needed in that class classroom was there. And we have the resources to do the same thing to transform our local schools.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you had to do it all over again, would you choose to live if a predominantly one-race community, and why or why not?

ROBINSON: If I had to do it all over again, I would prefer to have them more diverse school system community -- if that was a choice that where I could make that choice and do that.

DENARD: I probably would stay in a predominantly African- American community. There are white neighbors that are moving into my community. And that's one of the advantages of in-town living, I think, you're more likely to have a more diverse community. So while it is predominantly African-American, we have white neighbors, always have.

CARTHEN: I want made kids to get this African-American experience. And it was worth that that I did that, because they never experienced it. But at the same time, they needed it. But if I had to do it over again I would rather them to be living in a diversified community, because I think it's -- once they are leaving and they go on for their own careers, they're dealing with reality and life.

And life is many colors. Therefore, I think it's more important that we learn to live together than to live separately.

PARKS: I probably would do the same living the same -- living in the same spot. I would like more diversity but I think, again, it's important that you can teach -- you can teach diversity, you know, at home. You can talk to your kids about that.

GILLIAN: I wouldn't change a thing. I think it's important that you recognize what your children are lacking and then as a parent you make sure that they have those experiences and exposures that prepare them to be productive citizens. And really embracing what God has created as different in all of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHOI: Tonight CNN presents has more on the aftermath of "Brown vs. the Board of Education". The special report looks at the education gap in America. It's called "The Gap: 50 years after Brown vs. the Board of Education". Tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

Elvis is still out there somewhere, many believe. And so, too, is the first man to impersonate the king, quirky comic Andy Kaufmann. The show is a sellout, 250 a pop for Kaufmann's comeback show at the House of Blues in LA, if he is still alive. Kaufmann supposedly died of lung cancer, 1984, although he never smoked. Before that he openly mused about staging his own death and reappearing 20 years later. We'll see if he does that tonight.

ROBERTS: I have a prediction about tomorrow. If this happens then we'll be covering it.

CHOI: Absolutely. Are you kidding me?

ROBERTS: No conspiracy theory here. Time to talk about the weather.

(WEATHER FORECAST)

ROBERTS: A quick look at headlines for you now. At midnight tonight some city halls in Massachusetts will begin processing same- sex marriage licenses. Six months ago the state supreme court ruled in favor of such marriages being legal.

In Colorado three people in a car were killed when a 40 ton steel girder fell from a highway overpass. An investigation into the collapse is looking at possible criminal activity, but police say that's not likely.

CHOI: But first, we take a look at your captions. This ostrich in Taiwan escaped from a petting zoo and the police are trying to catch him. We don't know if that ever actually happened, whether the police caught up with this ostrich.

But we do know we had some witty comments about this picture. Here's one from Beth, Alexandria, Virginia.

"Pardon me, do you have a Grey Poupon?

Love that.

ROBERTS: All right, this one coming into us from AJ In Florida --

"I said pull over. Now! And don't try to stick you head in the sand, you were going 55 in a 35 mph zone, and you know it!"

We don't know if they did catch the ostrich. As you can see in the picture, the police officer really reaching out trying to grab a hold. In the background you can see two more police officers on their motorbikes.

CHOI: Yes, he had them gunning after him. Very nice.

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