Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With David Johnson, Robert Zimmerman

Aired July 11, 2004 - 09:36   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: Many people agree that Bill Clinton is intelligent and charismatic, his presidential legacy, however, is open to much interpretation. And with me now to share their thoughts on the Clinton presidency, Republican strategist David Johnson and Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman.
Gentlemen, thank you for joining us this morning. I think these legacies, presidential legacies, they kind of grow overtime, and it may be just a little bit too early to talk about Mr. Clinton's. Is that your summation right now, Mr. Johnson?

DAVID JOHNSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It is really. I mean, it's still very early. But early indications are that Clinton's presidency will become a transitional presidency. Very similar to Dwight Eisenhower's was for Republicans.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Zimmerman, let's talk about his value to Democrats and how the Democratic Party is viewing Mr. Clinton. Al Gore did not really want him near his campaign for president. We're not seeing hardly any of him in the Kerry/Edwards camp. Is he still a liability or is he becoming more of a democratic statesman above politics?

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, he really has emerged as a democratic statesman. Even though, in that role as a former president, on one level he's above politics, he's very, very critical; his administration's record is critical, for the Kerry/Edwards ticket. That's -- in 2000 the issues were very different than they are in 2004. And now that we have record deficits, certainly John Kerry's record of being a deficit hawk and Bill Clinton's leadership in diminishing, reducing the deficit and bringing us record surpluses was critical to economic recovery.

Likewise, the Clinton administration's policy of coalition building around the world to solve problems internationally is certainly a very critical point that John Kerry has always been a strong advocate of, and we now see that our country has grown more isolated. We now see how critical it is to build international coalition.

GRIFFIN: But Mr. Zimmerman, how do you involve Bill Clinton physically into a campaign where if he shows up he's going to usurp the spotlight of the actual candidate? He is still wildly popular, as his book shows.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think his wild popularity is certainly an asset to John Kerry and John Edwards. You have to remember, it's not about usurping the spotlight, it's about demonstrating what Democratic leadership can do, both for our country domestically and our role in the world, and John Kerry's record certainly reflects that. So I think bringing Bill Clinton and Al Gore on to the national scene is a very important reminder about the significance of a presidency, and the positive impact it has in people's lives.

GRIFFIN: David Johnson, can Mr. Clinton's role, either in or not in this campaign, play any significant role in the outcome?

JOHNSON: Not really. I mean, what he's going to do is shore up the Democratic base. The Democrats will take him in places where he is strong. Also, he'll help in fund-raising. But the one thing John Kerry does not want is to be overshadowed by Bill Clinton. The other thing is, as well, John Kerry and John Edwards are taking the Democratic Party in a different direction from Bill Clinton. They are far more liberal than Bill Clinton's presidency. That will play a significant role...

ZIMMERMAN: Quite to the contrary, Dave, that's quite to the contrary.

JOHNSON: No, it isn't.

ZIMMERMAN: John Kerry and John Edwards are running their campaign focusing on reducing the record deficits...

GRIFFIN: Gentleman...

JOHNSON: No, they're not. They're...

GRIFFIN: Rather than get into a discussion about the current nominees for president, let's talk about Bill Clinton. And I'm wondering for you, Mr. Johnson, we had Mr. Bush one and now, Mr. Clinton out there as the son of ex but still connected presidents, are they starting to act like each other in terms of how they view the day-to-day politics?

JOHNSON: They are, really. Both George Bush senior and Bill Clinton are not criticizing President Bush on foreign affairs, which has always been the traditional role of ex-presidents. But what they're doing is they're shoring up the base among Republican voters for George Bush senior and for Democrats with Bill Clinton. I mean, they will be trying to rise above politics as they finish their legacy in America. I think the bigger legacy for Republican voters will be Ronald Reagan. That's who Republicans will be referring to.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Zimmerman, in terms of protecting or creating his legacy, is it important for Bill Clinton stay above the political fray?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think for Bill Clinton, the best way to preserve his legacy is by seeing the Democratic Party and seeing a Democrat elected to the presidency, because, in fact, the Clinton legacy is built upon very important fundamental political and governmental issues. Kerry and Edwards reflect that. I think one of the ways that the Clinton legacy will be enhanced is by seeing America come back to his mission of economic recovery, surpluses in the budget, and also seeing America resume its proper role in the world as the key, only superpower that can bring different governments together.

One interesting point Dave raised about the Reagan legacy brings to mind, I think, a very important issue that I think works to John Kerry and John Edwards advantage. Like Ronald Reagan, they believe America's best days are ahead. And the Bush administration running on the theme that we're doing the best we can do, and this is the best we can be I think really does contradict the Reagan legacy and does contradict the message of the Kerry/Edwards ticket.

GRIFFIN: I hate to leave it at that, Mr. Johnson. I know you want to get back to that one, but we are simply out of time. Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us. An interesting look back at President Clinton's legacy.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Stories from across America coming up.

An emergency landing for one pilot, and everyone comes out OK, but he lands in jail. We'll tell you why.

Plus, one of America's elite track and field athletes won't be making the trip to Athens, at least not in this event. Details when CNN SUNDAY MORNING returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Welcome back to CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm Drew Griffin. Some stories from across America, now.

Don't drink and fly. An Arizona man walked away after crashing his plane on I-5 in California, then he landed in jail. Turns out pilot Mark South told police his engine quit. Well, police say he failed a sobriety test at the scene. He's under arrest.

In Indonesia, walking down into the arms of family. An alleged U.S. Army deserter who fled North Korea 40 years ago meets hugs and kisses from the wife he hasn't seen in two years. In 1965 the Army says Jenkins deserted his unit to flee to North Korea. The family is asking President Bush to pardon Jenkins, who's still wanted on desertion charges.

Sprinter Marion Jones won't be able to defend her Olympic 100- meter title next month in Athens. Jones finished fifth in the 100- meter finals at the Olympic trials. Jones still has a chance to make the U.S. team in the 200-meter and long jump.

And a quake of sorts in L.A. A big change in basketball in the works. Shaquille O'Neal may be about to move from the left coast to the south beach. The Lakers center has told the Lakers he wants to be traded, and now he's apparently told his agent he wants to go to Miami. A deal, still in the works, could be announced Tuesday. The Heat gave the Lakers apparently four players and a future first round draft pick in the deal. The Lakers say they know nothing about this. NGUYEN: Well, you could call it the test case for guy rights in the state of Georgia. A private golf club allows spouses the same rights as its paying members, but it does not grant those privileges to gay partners. Gay members filed a complaint with the city of Atlanta and the two sides sought mediation, but so far those efforts have failed. Stuck in the middle of this controversy Atlanta's mayor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHIRLEY FRANKLIN, MAYOR, ATLANTA, GEORGIA: I regret that Georgia is one of few states that has not put on the books that anti- discrimination law.

NGUYEN (voice-over): With that attitude looming in the Georgia legislature, the fight for gay rights moves to the back nine on Atlanta's Druid Hills Golf Club, and the next play in the hands of Mayor Shirley Franklin.

FRANKLIN: As a matter of fact, Georgia is one of the few states that will have on the ballot in November an amendment, a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

NGUYEN: At issue, the private group's practice of granting full privileges to wives and husbands, but not to gay companions. They have to pay the same $50,000 entrance fee as their partners.

LEE KYSER, GAY CLUB MEMBER: That continues to put us in a second-class citizenship over there at that club. And we're not talking about in the future. We're talking about in the moment.

NGUYEN: Members doctor Lee Kyser and attorney Randy New both have gay partners. The pair filed a complaint with the city of Atlanta's human relations commission and won. Which means the mayor must now decide whether to take legal action. And that's where city ordinances come into play.

NGUYEN (on camera): The ordinance gives the mayor the authority to strip one of the south's most prestigious golf clubs of its city permits, including its liquor license. Now, this case went to mediation, but both sides failed to find a common ground.

RANDY NEW, GAY CLUB MEMBER: This is a case where either we're treated equally or we're not. And that's a hard case to mediate. I suggest the second mediation can't solve that problem any better than the first one did, and the mayor's going to have to make a decision.

NGUYEN (voice-over): Golf club officials refused to go on camera, but the Druid Hills general manager issued this statement. It says the club hopes to continue the mediation process.

Mayor Franklin has said little publicly about the case until now.

FRANKLIN: I don't have any hesitation standing up for the rights of gays, none at all. I want to do it in a way that advances the cause as opposed to in a way that's going to cause us to be in a protracted lawsuit that we might lose. NGUYEN: All sides believe this is a case that almost certainly will end up in the courts.

KYSER: We're not going silently into this night.

NGUYEN: The only question is how far will it go?

FRANKLIN: We are reviewing the constitutionality of that ordinance, as it was passed and adopted prior to my election. And we are looking for the options that I might have that can withstand the federal test.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Now the next step in what's being labeled as a test case for gay rights in Georgia is a second attempt at mediation. So far the two sides have not agreed to sit down together again. We'll keep you informed.

GRIFFIN: And we will check the morning's top stories coming up. Plus, a check of the weather out west. Wildfires continuing to burn in Arizona.

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Let's take a quick look at the top stories. Four Marines died Saturday while on security and stability operations in the Al Anbar province of Iraq. And near Mosul this morning, a U.S. soldier was killed another wounded in a roadside bomb attack.

The Philippine government says it will not meet a demand by hostage-takers in Iraq to withdraw its troops in just nine days. The militants who abducted Angelo de la Cruz gave until this evening to remove troops by July 20.

Where are they now? Our traveling family, the Sprys make a memorable visit to the east coast. An update coming up next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: There's plenty more ahead right here on CNN today. At the top of the hour, it's "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY." At 11:00, more of CNN LIVE. And at 11:30, "RELIABLE SOURCES."

GRIFFIN: On the fire lines in the Grand Canyon state. The Willow fire near Payson in central Arizona has burned 120,000 acres, but its days are numbered, apparently. Firefighters say they have that fire about 70 percent contained and they will continue to build a line around the south edge.

Meanwhile, in southeastern Arizona, crews fighting two wildfires near the Mount Graham International Observatory are getting help but rain showers, but not so much help from lightning that could spark some new fires there.

NGUYEN: Rob Marciano joins us now with a look at the forecast. They could use a lot of rain, Rob.

(WEATHER REPORT)

NGUYEN: It's time now for our weekly Sunday update on the family we introduced you to several weeks ago, the Spry family. They gave up the rat race in Silicon Valley, California. The threesome is touring the country looking for the perfect place to nest. It's been a terrific occasion for son Ryan as they visited the World Trade Center site in New York last week. The Sprys also viewed the boardwalk at Point Pleasant, New Jersey, wrapping up their week in more peaceful territory with a visit to Long Island Sound. We have been following their journey this week via their Web site; it's luvtohavefun.com. Enjoying their selves.

We enjoyed you joining us this morning. Thanks for being with us.

GRIFFIN: INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY coming up next. But first, a look at what's happening now in the news.

NGUYEN: The Philippine government won't make a deal with hostage-takers in Iraq. The captors of Angelo de la Cruz have threatened to kill the truck driver if Filipino troops are not out of the country by July 20th.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired July 11, 2004 - 09:36   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: Many people agree that Bill Clinton is intelligent and charismatic, his presidential legacy, however, is open to much interpretation. And with me now to share their thoughts on the Clinton presidency, Republican strategist David Johnson and Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman.
Gentlemen, thank you for joining us this morning. I think these legacies, presidential legacies, they kind of grow overtime, and it may be just a little bit too early to talk about Mr. Clinton's. Is that your summation right now, Mr. Johnson?

DAVID JOHNSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It is really. I mean, it's still very early. But early indications are that Clinton's presidency will become a transitional presidency. Very similar to Dwight Eisenhower's was for Republicans.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Zimmerman, let's talk about his value to Democrats and how the Democratic Party is viewing Mr. Clinton. Al Gore did not really want him near his campaign for president. We're not seeing hardly any of him in the Kerry/Edwards camp. Is he still a liability or is he becoming more of a democratic statesman above politics?

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, he really has emerged as a democratic statesman. Even though, in that role as a former president, on one level he's above politics, he's very, very critical; his administration's record is critical, for the Kerry/Edwards ticket. That's -- in 2000 the issues were very different than they are in 2004. And now that we have record deficits, certainly John Kerry's record of being a deficit hawk and Bill Clinton's leadership in diminishing, reducing the deficit and bringing us record surpluses was critical to economic recovery.

Likewise, the Clinton administration's policy of coalition building around the world to solve problems internationally is certainly a very critical point that John Kerry has always been a strong advocate of, and we now see that our country has grown more isolated. We now see how critical it is to build international coalition.

GRIFFIN: But Mr. Zimmerman, how do you involve Bill Clinton physically into a campaign where if he shows up he's going to usurp the spotlight of the actual candidate? He is still wildly popular, as his book shows.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think his wild popularity is certainly an asset to John Kerry and John Edwards. You have to remember, it's not about usurping the spotlight, it's about demonstrating what Democratic leadership can do, both for our country domestically and our role in the world, and John Kerry's record certainly reflects that. So I think bringing Bill Clinton and Al Gore on to the national scene is a very important reminder about the significance of a presidency, and the positive impact it has in people's lives.

GRIFFIN: David Johnson, can Mr. Clinton's role, either in or not in this campaign, play any significant role in the outcome?

JOHNSON: Not really. I mean, what he's going to do is shore up the Democratic base. The Democrats will take him in places where he is strong. Also, he'll help in fund-raising. But the one thing John Kerry does not want is to be overshadowed by Bill Clinton. The other thing is, as well, John Kerry and John Edwards are taking the Democratic Party in a different direction from Bill Clinton. They are far more liberal than Bill Clinton's presidency. That will play a significant role...

ZIMMERMAN: Quite to the contrary, Dave, that's quite to the contrary.

JOHNSON: No, it isn't.

ZIMMERMAN: John Kerry and John Edwards are running their campaign focusing on reducing the record deficits...

GRIFFIN: Gentleman...

JOHNSON: No, they're not. They're...

GRIFFIN: Rather than get into a discussion about the current nominees for president, let's talk about Bill Clinton. And I'm wondering for you, Mr. Johnson, we had Mr. Bush one and now, Mr. Clinton out there as the son of ex but still connected presidents, are they starting to act like each other in terms of how they view the day-to-day politics?

JOHNSON: They are, really. Both George Bush senior and Bill Clinton are not criticizing President Bush on foreign affairs, which has always been the traditional role of ex-presidents. But what they're doing is they're shoring up the base among Republican voters for George Bush senior and for Democrats with Bill Clinton. I mean, they will be trying to rise above politics as they finish their legacy in America. I think the bigger legacy for Republican voters will be Ronald Reagan. That's who Republicans will be referring to.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Zimmerman, in terms of protecting or creating his legacy, is it important for Bill Clinton stay above the political fray?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think for Bill Clinton, the best way to preserve his legacy is by seeing the Democratic Party and seeing a Democrat elected to the presidency, because, in fact, the Clinton legacy is built upon very important fundamental political and governmental issues. Kerry and Edwards reflect that. I think one of the ways that the Clinton legacy will be enhanced is by seeing America come back to his mission of economic recovery, surpluses in the budget, and also seeing America resume its proper role in the world as the key, only superpower that can bring different governments together.

One interesting point Dave raised about the Reagan legacy brings to mind, I think, a very important issue that I think works to John Kerry and John Edwards advantage. Like Ronald Reagan, they believe America's best days are ahead. And the Bush administration running on the theme that we're doing the best we can do, and this is the best we can be I think really does contradict the Reagan legacy and does contradict the message of the Kerry/Edwards ticket.

GRIFFIN: I hate to leave it at that, Mr. Johnson. I know you want to get back to that one, but we are simply out of time. Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us. An interesting look back at President Clinton's legacy.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Stories from across America coming up.

An emergency landing for one pilot, and everyone comes out OK, but he lands in jail. We'll tell you why.

Plus, one of America's elite track and field athletes won't be making the trip to Athens, at least not in this event. Details when CNN SUNDAY MORNING returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Welcome back to CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm Drew Griffin. Some stories from across America, now.

Don't drink and fly. An Arizona man walked away after crashing his plane on I-5 in California, then he landed in jail. Turns out pilot Mark South told police his engine quit. Well, police say he failed a sobriety test at the scene. He's under arrest.

In Indonesia, walking down into the arms of family. An alleged U.S. Army deserter who fled North Korea 40 years ago meets hugs and kisses from the wife he hasn't seen in two years. In 1965 the Army says Jenkins deserted his unit to flee to North Korea. The family is asking President Bush to pardon Jenkins, who's still wanted on desertion charges.

Sprinter Marion Jones won't be able to defend her Olympic 100- meter title next month in Athens. Jones finished fifth in the 100- meter finals at the Olympic trials. Jones still has a chance to make the U.S. team in the 200-meter and long jump.

And a quake of sorts in L.A. A big change in basketball in the works. Shaquille O'Neal may be about to move from the left coast to the south beach. The Lakers center has told the Lakers he wants to be traded, and now he's apparently told his agent he wants to go to Miami. A deal, still in the works, could be announced Tuesday. The Heat gave the Lakers apparently four players and a future first round draft pick in the deal. The Lakers say they know nothing about this. NGUYEN: Well, you could call it the test case for guy rights in the state of Georgia. A private golf club allows spouses the same rights as its paying members, but it does not grant those privileges to gay partners. Gay members filed a complaint with the city of Atlanta and the two sides sought mediation, but so far those efforts have failed. Stuck in the middle of this controversy Atlanta's mayor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHIRLEY FRANKLIN, MAYOR, ATLANTA, GEORGIA: I regret that Georgia is one of few states that has not put on the books that anti- discrimination law.

NGUYEN (voice-over): With that attitude looming in the Georgia legislature, the fight for gay rights moves to the back nine on Atlanta's Druid Hills Golf Club, and the next play in the hands of Mayor Shirley Franklin.

FRANKLIN: As a matter of fact, Georgia is one of the few states that will have on the ballot in November an amendment, a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

NGUYEN: At issue, the private group's practice of granting full privileges to wives and husbands, but not to gay companions. They have to pay the same $50,000 entrance fee as their partners.

LEE KYSER, GAY CLUB MEMBER: That continues to put us in a second-class citizenship over there at that club. And we're not talking about in the future. We're talking about in the moment.

NGUYEN: Members doctor Lee Kyser and attorney Randy New both have gay partners. The pair filed a complaint with the city of Atlanta's human relations commission and won. Which means the mayor must now decide whether to take legal action. And that's where city ordinances come into play.

NGUYEN (on camera): The ordinance gives the mayor the authority to strip one of the south's most prestigious golf clubs of its city permits, including its liquor license. Now, this case went to mediation, but both sides failed to find a common ground.

RANDY NEW, GAY CLUB MEMBER: This is a case where either we're treated equally or we're not. And that's a hard case to mediate. I suggest the second mediation can't solve that problem any better than the first one did, and the mayor's going to have to make a decision.

NGUYEN (voice-over): Golf club officials refused to go on camera, but the Druid Hills general manager issued this statement. It says the club hopes to continue the mediation process.

Mayor Franklin has said little publicly about the case until now.

FRANKLIN: I don't have any hesitation standing up for the rights of gays, none at all. I want to do it in a way that advances the cause as opposed to in a way that's going to cause us to be in a protracted lawsuit that we might lose. NGUYEN: All sides believe this is a case that almost certainly will end up in the courts.

KYSER: We're not going silently into this night.

NGUYEN: The only question is how far will it go?

FRANKLIN: We are reviewing the constitutionality of that ordinance, as it was passed and adopted prior to my election. And we are looking for the options that I might have that can withstand the federal test.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Now the next step in what's being labeled as a test case for gay rights in Georgia is a second attempt at mediation. So far the two sides have not agreed to sit down together again. We'll keep you informed.

GRIFFIN: And we will check the morning's top stories coming up. Plus, a check of the weather out west. Wildfires continuing to burn in Arizona.

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Let's take a quick look at the top stories. Four Marines died Saturday while on security and stability operations in the Al Anbar province of Iraq. And near Mosul this morning, a U.S. soldier was killed another wounded in a roadside bomb attack.

The Philippine government says it will not meet a demand by hostage-takers in Iraq to withdraw its troops in just nine days. The militants who abducted Angelo de la Cruz gave until this evening to remove troops by July 20.

Where are they now? Our traveling family, the Sprys make a memorable visit to the east coast. An update coming up next on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: There's plenty more ahead right here on CNN today. At the top of the hour, it's "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY." At 11:00, more of CNN LIVE. And at 11:30, "RELIABLE SOURCES."

GRIFFIN: On the fire lines in the Grand Canyon state. The Willow fire near Payson in central Arizona has burned 120,000 acres, but its days are numbered, apparently. Firefighters say they have that fire about 70 percent contained and they will continue to build a line around the south edge.

Meanwhile, in southeastern Arizona, crews fighting two wildfires near the Mount Graham International Observatory are getting help but rain showers, but not so much help from lightning that could spark some new fires there.

NGUYEN: Rob Marciano joins us now with a look at the forecast. They could use a lot of rain, Rob.

(WEATHER REPORT)

NGUYEN: It's time now for our weekly Sunday update on the family we introduced you to several weeks ago, the Spry family. They gave up the rat race in Silicon Valley, California. The threesome is touring the country looking for the perfect place to nest. It's been a terrific occasion for son Ryan as they visited the World Trade Center site in New York last week. The Sprys also viewed the boardwalk at Point Pleasant, New Jersey, wrapping up their week in more peaceful territory with a visit to Long Island Sound. We have been following their journey this week via their Web site; it's luvtohavefun.com. Enjoying their selves.

We enjoyed you joining us this morning. Thanks for being with us.

GRIFFIN: INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY coming up next. But first, a look at what's happening now in the news.

NGUYEN: The Philippine government won't make a deal with hostage-takers in Iraq. The captors of Angelo de la Cruz have threatened to kill the truck driver if Filipino troops are not out of the country by July 20th.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com