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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Anonymous CIA Writer; Ricky Williams Announces Retirement
Aired July 25, 2004 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. It is Sunday July 25 already. This is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm Drew Griffin at CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Betty Nguyen. Good morning to all of you. Thanks so much for starting your day with us, got a lot to tell you about. Here is what's coming up this hour.
Militants are warning Australia and Italy to pull their troops out of Iraq or else. We'll tell you about the new terror threats and a new round of violence in Iraq.
Plus, sure it's quiet now, but in hours, this empty space will be jam-packed with people. We'll bring you the latest on the politics and the planned protests of the Democratic National Convention in Boston.
And ready, set, hike: Is one of pro football's premier players, is he hanging up his cleats? Surprising news from the world of sports. That's a bit later in the hour, but first, here's what's happening now in the news.
GRIFFIN: The U.S. Military reporting 13 Iraqi insurgents killed today in a town northeast of Baghdad. The battle broke out when insurgents attack Iraqi National Guard forces. Iraqis pursued of these attackers into the town and with the U.S. provide air support and artillery. There were no casualties on the U.S. or Iraqi side.
Australia and Italy are the latest targets of a terrorist threat posted on the Internet. A suspected al-Qaeda group warned both countries of dire consequences if their troops do not leave Iraq. Australia's foreign minister has already dismissed the threat saying "Terrorists do not dictate Australia's policy."
In France, it's Lance a lot. Barring any unforeseen calamity, the five-time Tour de France is cruising toward an unprecedented sixth win. The three-week cross-country bicycle race ends with a ceremony around the Champs Elysees in the heart of Paris.
And running back Ricky Williams reportedly is hanging up his football cleats. The "Miami Harold" is reporting Williams has told the Miami Dolphins that he is retiring after five years in the NFL. Williams says he'll file retirement papers tomorrow or Tuesday. We'll have more on this later in the program.
Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news. To Boston now, a town with a colorful and long history of dissent, perhaps best illustrated by the tea party they had in 1773. That spirit lives on this week but it's very much contained. And on the high list of complaints, the venue site for these protesters. Bob Franken is in an overcast Boston to explain why demonstrators are more upset than usual -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think a lot of people are going to be upset by the time they encounter, which is probably the strictest, security they have ever encounter. Let's talk about the demonstrators, first. And I want to just point you to the area that they call a holding pen and not without reason, as you can see, I'm talking about that area under the tracks which is what has been designated as the rallying point for demonstrators. They've gone to court over this, thus far the judges have said the area is appropriate, although they are appealing on Monday. Now, the demonstrators are allowed to march through the streets heavily guarded, of course and they'll be doing that today. We'll have a good vantage point for that. You can see that there is just ample security here. Security of varying degrees of competence, but thousands and thousands of security people, both military and civilian, federal, local, all of them trying to coordinate this, trying to communicate with one another. You don't travel more than about five feet before you encounter another magnetometer, another security checkpoint. Oftentimes it's repetitious. But, that's the name of the game, this is a national security event. That is a normal declaration.
By the way, there's a political convention that's going to happen here. By the way -- that's not a by the way. Regrettably it seems to be it has been almost overshadowed by all the security preparations, but it's all to try and protect thousands of delegates who are coming in to nominate a democratic presidential candidate and vice presidential candidate. John Kerry and John Edwards. The hope is that that becomes the story before the end of the week instead of some tremendous, tragic event that would prove it had overtaken the security. We'll find out, but right now, as I said, the security has turned Boston into an armed camp that pretty much has been shut down on the perimeter so this can go off safely -- Drew.
GRIFFIN: Bob, I want to ask you a question, I know it's coming out of the blue, but we haven't talked about who these protesters are. Are we talking about the usual crowd that kind of shows up at all these kind of world events and economic events?
FRANKEN: Well, I just don't want to make -- sound dismissive of them. These are people who have a variety of issues and dissatisfactions with the system they range primarily, I suppose to ones who are anti-war in Iraq to those who claim that there's an economic disparity in the United States to those who claim that there are a variety of gender issues and sexual issues and discrimination issues. Yes, the issues are the same. But they claim, with a lot of people agreeing to one degree or another, that these issues are anything but resolved. Some of them even claim that the two parties are really just part of a one-party system in the United States. So they want to demonstrate. That, of course is supposed to be the tradition in the U.S. They're saying that that tradition has now been stood on its head because of the heavy security that doesn't allow them the free speech they believe they have a right to get.
GRIFFIN: Bob Franken, perched outside the Fleet Center where a lot of the excitement most likely will be since most of these conventions are so well scripted, Bob. Thanks for standing by.
And our prime-time coverage of the convention begins tonight at 7:00 Eastern with "People in the News" profiling Senator John Edwards and Teresa Heinz Kerry. At 8:00 Eastern, "CNN Presents -- John Kerry: Born to Run." At 9:00, a special "Larry King Live" from the Fleet Center. And at 10:00 p.m. Wolf Blitzer with a preview of the convention with an "America Votes 2004 Special Special."
NGUYEN: Now for a sense of what will be going on inside the Fleet Center, starting on Monday, we want to turn to CNN political analyst, Ron Brownstein, who is on the outside looking in.
Good morning to you.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Betty
NGUYEN: Well, first off we want to put up some poll numbers, some recent numbers that are just out. And when asked, Americans, "Do you think the country needs to move in a new direction?" These poll numbers suggest that 59 percent say "yes," and 38 percent say "no." And a lot of folks are still uncertain about Kerry, although they want a new direction. What's the discrepancy here?
BROWNSTEIN: That is really the -- frames the challenge for John Kerry at this convention this week, those two numbers. The gap between the percentage of Americans who are now open to change and those who now say they're ready to support John Kerry for President. It seems, as you look across the board at the numbers, where there are poll numbers you just cited, the percentage saying they want to re- elect the president, the percentage who say the country is on the wrong track. There is, at this point, a slight majority in many of these polls for change. But John Kerry hasn't yet convinced voters he can deliver that change, many, about a third in our poll say they still don't know enough about him to now whether if he'd be a better president than George Bush. And his task, really, here this week, is more to fill in the blanks about himself than to make a case against Bush.
NGUYEN: Exactly. We want to put up those poll numbers now. When asked, "Do you know enough about John Kerry's policies to decide if he'd be a better President than George Bush?" 59 percent said "yes," 34 percent said "no." So, is he going to have to talking a lot of specifics at this convention to sway these voters?
BROWNSTEIN: Both specifics and I think also they believe even more important, biography and explaining who he is. You know, for the challenger, the convention really is a critical event in the race. Before the convention, it's hard to tell your story as a challenger in any kind of systematic way. People get snippets of information about you on the news, they might see an ad if they live in the battleground states. But often you're kind of a cardboard character. The convention is where challengers really have to flush themselves out into someone that voters feel they can trust; they have a sense of their values, what's important to them, what shaped them. That's always been difficult for Kerry to make that personal connection with voters. But in the end the pivot of whether this convention is a success will largely be whether he can accomplish that task himself Thursday night when he has the spotlight.
NGUYEN: And that character analysis is going to rely heavily on his family. Members are speaking there at the convention. Also some of the men he served with in Vietnam. What is their message?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, I talked to a senior Kerry people planning this campaign. They say, "Look, 75 percent of what we want to get out of this week is convincing Americans that John Kerry will keep them safe. The other 25 percent is convincing them he's a man of conviction whose policies flow out of strong beliefs." Not coincidentally, those are direct rebuttals to the two principle arguments that President Bush and his campaign have made against Kerry in their advertising, that he's weak on defense, that he's irresolute and a flip-flopper. Now, the veterans and combat comrades really from Vietnam are critical on both ends. Obviously, they send a message of national security, but they're also going to send a message this is someone that can be trusted, who you can depend on in a pinch. And that is again, rebutting what is at the essence of one of these Bush arguments. Part of the flip-flopper argument is you don't know where Kerry is going to be when times are tough and we are obviously living in an era when times do get tough.
NGUYEN: Quickly Ron, the problem with this convention could be the fact that a lot of folks just aren't tuning into political conventions like they used to in the past. So, how much of a bounce is it really going to give the Kerry-Edwards campaign?
BROWNSTEIN: The viewership, the direct viewership is about half what it was a generation ago. It's still an enormously important event because of the reflected media. I mean it dominates the news shows and the print media for the entire week. A lot more people get information from it than directly, who are watching it as it proceeds. This is an important event for them. Historically, the challenger can get about six points on average in their poll numbers, that would push Kerry over 50 percent if he does. The Kerry people say it's unrealistic to expect that much because the electorate is so polarized. What they're really hoping for Betty, is to solidify impressions of him, to have voters feel more comfortable in him personally, that he's ready to be commander-in-chief, that they know him, that his vote is more stable, people feel more committed to it. Those second tier measures, below the top line poll, may be where the impact of this convention is measured most.
NGUYEN: And of course, we will wait and see if that happens. Political analyst, Ron Brownstein, thank you very much.
GRIFFIN: There's been another threat from al-Qaeda today. Italy and Australia threatened with waves of violence unless they withdraw their troops from Iraq. The threats posted on an Islamic Web site by a group calling itself "Islamic Unification" which is the al-Qaeda organization in Europe. The message warns of a bloodbath in Australia and promises the car bombs will not stop coming. Italy is warned, quoting now, "You will have columns of car bombs shaking your cities." Australia's foreign affairs minister says his country will not give in to terrorists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER DOWNER, AUSTRALIAN FOREIGN AFFAIRS MINISTER: We take all threats seriously, but on the other hand, Australia sends a message out to the world and that is that we won't bow to threats. In the end, if we allow these sorts of threats to determine our foreign policy, then what we'll do is empower the terrorists and, of course if we empower the terrorists, then the terrorists will become virulent and increasingly successful.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Australia has about 800 troops in Iraq, Italy about 2,700.
And the terror threats come amid new rounds of violence in Iraq. Thirteen insurgents killed in a battle with U.S. forces, and for the latest on that we go to Matthew Chance who is live today in Baghdad -- Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Drew, thank you. And that battle taking place just north of Baghdad near the town of Bariz, a few kilometers away from here. In fact, 13 insurgents killed by Iraqi National Guard and police forces as they were supposed to be defending U.S. First Armored Division on a raid in the area looking for hideouts of the group which is controlled by Abu Musab Zarqawi. They were carrying out the security duties when they came under attack. They fought back, the United States Army provided air support and artillery support, so just one of the examples of how now Iraqi forces alongside U.S. and coalition forces are battling together the insurgents out there in the field.
Now, all this violence taking place as efforts continue to secure the release of the various hostages that are being held by Iraqi militant, particularly the Egyptian diplomat whose been the most prominent of these hostages. He was seized by militants in response, they say, to Egypt offering security assistance to Iraq. But also a great deal of efforts to try and secure the seven truck drivers from India and Kenya, another one from Egypt as well. Efforts being made to negotiate with those hostage takers as well, or at least to try and get those hostage takers to release the seven truck drivers. No positive indication of any release, though, coming soon -- Drew.
GRIFFIN: Matthew Chance in Baghdad, thank you for that report -- Betty.
NGUYEN: So is America losing the war on terror?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's not many people out the Middle East who are listening to us. Indeed, the genius of bin Laden has been to focus on a number of U.S. policies that are opposed by Muslims across the ideological spectrum.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: An insider's perspective.
Family, friends and authorities, meanwhile, continued their search in Utah. The latest in the Lori Hacking case.
And for the latest forecast across the country, we turn now to Rob Marciano. Good morning.
(WEATHER BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: New details now on the search for a missing jogger in Utah. Salt Lake City police are studying a clump of brown hair found in a carwash dumpster. Lori Hacking, the jogger missing since Monday has brown hair and the dumpster is less than a block from the store where her husband, Mark Hacking, bought a mattress just before he reported his wife missing. Yesterday, the woman's mother made tearful plea for her daughter's safe return.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THELMA SOARES, LORI HACKING'S MOTHER: She's my only daughter. Please help up find her one way or another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Police say Mark Hacking is a person of interest, but not a suspect in the case, Drew.
GRIFFIN: When a CIA agent decided he wanted to write a book on the war on terror, his boss gave him two criteria: He can't use his name and he can't talk about what he does. The book is called "Imperial Hubris" and it focuses on what the agent calls "America's failures in the war on terror." I talked with the writer yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: The book is somewhat groundbreaking, especially during this political season because the conclusion is not only are we not winning this war on terror, we are indeed losing this war on terror. What is your argument for that?
ANONYMOUS, AUTHOR, "IMPERIAL HUBRIS": Well, sir, I don't think we've quite grasped what our enemy is up to. Our leaders over the last decade have continued to say they are out to destroy our society or our democracy or our voting rights, our civilization and it's just not the case. Bin Laden is motivated by his religion, of course. But those that follow him are focused on a really dislike or hatred of U.S. policies in the Middle East.
GRIFFIN: But, isn't bin laden and his efforts really a moving target? At first he was against Russians in Afghanistan when the battle was won there, he talked about removing American soldiers from Saudi Arabia, when that took place he moved on to the next battle and indeed when we were struck on September 11, we were neither in Iraq or Afghanistan, and yet that seems to be bin Laden and his cause now.
ANONYMOUS: Well, certainly, sir, his goal after beating the soviets, which was our goal at the same time, was to move the United States out of the region. And there are so many misunderstandings out there. As far as bin Laden and most Muslims are concerned we haven't left the Arabian Peninsula. Most Muslims don't see the peninsula as a series of states but just one area. So what we've managed to do is to fool Americans, basically, by moving from Saudi Arabia to Qatar. In essence for Muslims, we still occupy the Arabian Peninsula, so it's just a developing war against the United States. I don't believe it's change that much except it's broadened and our forces are more available to be hit in more places in the world.
GRIFFIN: And the undercurrent seems to be as long as we support Israel, as long as there are Jews in the Middle East, there will always be terror.
ANONYMOUS: Well, certainly from the hardliners and bin Laden himself, that's true, but I think there's more than just Israel. It's -- you know, there's a list of five or six policies that bin Laden has focused on since 1996 which included, unqualified support for Israel, but go much further. They go to our ability to manipulate oil prices to keep them acceptable to western consumers, our support for what he identifies, and what really are tyrannical governments from the Atlantic to the Indian Ocean in the Muslim world. Our presence in two of the most holy places in Islam: Iraq and Afghanistan. There's a very specific slate of policies that really have been in place for the United States for the last 25 to 30 years and haven't been looked at, they've kind of been on autopilot.
GRIFFIN: The 9/11 Commission report and its members talked about solving this Islamic fundamentalist problem and reaching out to more moderate Islamic entities and trying to basically launch a P.R. campaign designed to make America loose less -- or more Islamic friendly. Is that the right path we should be taking?
ANONYMOUS: Sir, if there's anything more useless than that, I'm not quite sure what it would be. There's no many -- there's not many people out in the Middle East who are listening to us. Indeed, the genius of bin Laden has been to focus on a number of U.S. policies that opposed by Muslims across the ideological spectrum, from liberal Muslims to moderate Muslims to militant Muslims. I think the idea that somehow we're going to talk the Islamic world out of their hatred for our policies is just a fantasy.
GRIFFIN: So what are you suggesting? We appease bin Laden?
ANONYMOUS: Hardly.
GRIFFIN: We get out of the entire Middle East?
ANONYMOUS: No, sir, hardly. I am certainly not doing that. I wrote the book for two reasons, first to try to alert Americans to the lethality of this threat and second to suggest that we have to use, in essence, what is our only option at the moment, is the military option, a bit harder. And my long-term goal, if I have any influence at all, is simply to have a debate in the United States over those policies that have been in place, as I said, for 30 years. If they are not benefiting America anymore, maybe it's time to talk about some of them. Nobody wants to abandon Israel, but maybe we shouldn't appear to be the dog being led by the tail so often.
But it's very hard -- you know, you are -- you suggest the discussion of Israeli policy and you become labeled in anti-Semite. You discuss oil self-sufficient and become the enemy of environmentalists or oil companies, so in the land of free speech it's very hard to have a national security debate if so many issues are off limits.
GRIFFIN: So, in the short run, though, your book says we are losing this war on terror and yet the solution seems to be only to fight it harder.
ANONYMOUS: Well, that's the only solution we've left ourselves at the moment, sir. And it's neither admirable nor desirable to have to use the military so often or so aggressively, but the only way to really cut into bin Laden's potential for growth over time is to have a sound, thorough going look at our policies. And at the end of the day, Americans may decide to keep the status quo and if they do, well, then that's fine, that's a democracy, but at least they'll be going into this war knowing how bloody and long it will be.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: The author goes on to say it's a fantasy to think there will ever be democracy in places like Afghanistan where Muslim rules have been in place for decades, even centuries. He also says the war in Iraq was like giving bin Laden a Christmas present because it merely helped spread the al-Qaeda movement -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Well coming up, he's about to do what no one else has done before. We're going to check on Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROB MARCIANO, METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, San Francisco. Your Sunday forecast is just a minute away.
GRIFFIN: The lead cyclists in the Tour de France are approaching the heart of Paris, but it's all about Lance Armstrong who is virtually assured of winning his record-breaking sixth win. Jim Bitterman has been following the bikes since they left Montereau and he's on the phone with an update.
JIM BITTERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Drew, it's absolutely about Lance Armstrong and the entire U.S. Postal team, they are at the front of the pack. They've just passed through a rather large forest on their way towards Euro Disney, so you know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Paris, that's on the east side of Paris, still about 20 miles outside the city, and they have about an hour of riding yet before they get into the city. When they do get into the city, they're going to make eight circuits down the Champs Elysees -- the avenue Champs Elysees the largest and most prestigious avenue in Paris running from the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) off to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) course, eight times around and then finally the finish line. Moving in quite a laid back pace they're about 19 minutes slower than the expected times. It's almost like a leisurely ride through the country side. But you can't be fooled by that because the fact is at any time, any one of these riders could go riding off and try to challenge Lance Armstrong who is in the lead, and if they did, he would be obliged to then catch up with and pass them.
GRIFFIN: Certainly something that he can to.
BITTERMAN: He's shown it all the way through and that's really why nobody seems to be challenging him very much today. I mean he started the race today six minutes and 38 seconds ahead of the next closest rider, so it was virtually impossible for him to catch up -- for anyone to catch up with that kind of diligent time.
GRIFFIN: Jim, just real quickly, I'm interested in this. Are you on one of those motor bikes on the back or are you actually in a car?
BITTERMAN: I'd love to be, but you know what? I'm not. I'm in a car. We're kind of following along at a distance.
GRIFFIN: All right. Have a great time. Thanks, Jim.
NGUYEN: Well, that may make some folks want to get up and take a little ride today. How is the weather looking for that, Rob.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 25, 2004 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. It is Sunday July 25 already. This is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm Drew Griffin at CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Betty Nguyen. Good morning to all of you. Thanks so much for starting your day with us, got a lot to tell you about. Here is what's coming up this hour.
Militants are warning Australia and Italy to pull their troops out of Iraq or else. We'll tell you about the new terror threats and a new round of violence in Iraq.
Plus, sure it's quiet now, but in hours, this empty space will be jam-packed with people. We'll bring you the latest on the politics and the planned protests of the Democratic National Convention in Boston.
And ready, set, hike: Is one of pro football's premier players, is he hanging up his cleats? Surprising news from the world of sports. That's a bit later in the hour, but first, here's what's happening now in the news.
GRIFFIN: The U.S. Military reporting 13 Iraqi insurgents killed today in a town northeast of Baghdad. The battle broke out when insurgents attack Iraqi National Guard forces. Iraqis pursued of these attackers into the town and with the U.S. provide air support and artillery. There were no casualties on the U.S. or Iraqi side.
Australia and Italy are the latest targets of a terrorist threat posted on the Internet. A suspected al-Qaeda group warned both countries of dire consequences if their troops do not leave Iraq. Australia's foreign minister has already dismissed the threat saying "Terrorists do not dictate Australia's policy."
In France, it's Lance a lot. Barring any unforeseen calamity, the five-time Tour de France is cruising toward an unprecedented sixth win. The three-week cross-country bicycle race ends with a ceremony around the Champs Elysees in the heart of Paris.
And running back Ricky Williams reportedly is hanging up his football cleats. The "Miami Harold" is reporting Williams has told the Miami Dolphins that he is retiring after five years in the NFL. Williams says he'll file retirement papers tomorrow or Tuesday. We'll have more on this later in the program.
Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news. To Boston now, a town with a colorful and long history of dissent, perhaps best illustrated by the tea party they had in 1773. That spirit lives on this week but it's very much contained. And on the high list of complaints, the venue site for these protesters. Bob Franken is in an overcast Boston to explain why demonstrators are more upset than usual -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think a lot of people are going to be upset by the time they encounter, which is probably the strictest, security they have ever encounter. Let's talk about the demonstrators, first. And I want to just point you to the area that they call a holding pen and not without reason, as you can see, I'm talking about that area under the tracks which is what has been designated as the rallying point for demonstrators. They've gone to court over this, thus far the judges have said the area is appropriate, although they are appealing on Monday. Now, the demonstrators are allowed to march through the streets heavily guarded, of course and they'll be doing that today. We'll have a good vantage point for that. You can see that there is just ample security here. Security of varying degrees of competence, but thousands and thousands of security people, both military and civilian, federal, local, all of them trying to coordinate this, trying to communicate with one another. You don't travel more than about five feet before you encounter another magnetometer, another security checkpoint. Oftentimes it's repetitious. But, that's the name of the game, this is a national security event. That is a normal declaration.
By the way, there's a political convention that's going to happen here. By the way -- that's not a by the way. Regrettably it seems to be it has been almost overshadowed by all the security preparations, but it's all to try and protect thousands of delegates who are coming in to nominate a democratic presidential candidate and vice presidential candidate. John Kerry and John Edwards. The hope is that that becomes the story before the end of the week instead of some tremendous, tragic event that would prove it had overtaken the security. We'll find out, but right now, as I said, the security has turned Boston into an armed camp that pretty much has been shut down on the perimeter so this can go off safely -- Drew.
GRIFFIN: Bob, I want to ask you a question, I know it's coming out of the blue, but we haven't talked about who these protesters are. Are we talking about the usual crowd that kind of shows up at all these kind of world events and economic events?
FRANKEN: Well, I just don't want to make -- sound dismissive of them. These are people who have a variety of issues and dissatisfactions with the system they range primarily, I suppose to ones who are anti-war in Iraq to those who claim that there's an economic disparity in the United States to those who claim that there are a variety of gender issues and sexual issues and discrimination issues. Yes, the issues are the same. But they claim, with a lot of people agreeing to one degree or another, that these issues are anything but resolved. Some of them even claim that the two parties are really just part of a one-party system in the United States. So they want to demonstrate. That, of course is supposed to be the tradition in the U.S. They're saying that that tradition has now been stood on its head because of the heavy security that doesn't allow them the free speech they believe they have a right to get.
GRIFFIN: Bob Franken, perched outside the Fleet Center where a lot of the excitement most likely will be since most of these conventions are so well scripted, Bob. Thanks for standing by.
And our prime-time coverage of the convention begins tonight at 7:00 Eastern with "People in the News" profiling Senator John Edwards and Teresa Heinz Kerry. At 8:00 Eastern, "CNN Presents -- John Kerry: Born to Run." At 9:00, a special "Larry King Live" from the Fleet Center. And at 10:00 p.m. Wolf Blitzer with a preview of the convention with an "America Votes 2004 Special Special."
NGUYEN: Now for a sense of what will be going on inside the Fleet Center, starting on Monday, we want to turn to CNN political analyst, Ron Brownstein, who is on the outside looking in.
Good morning to you.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Betty
NGUYEN: Well, first off we want to put up some poll numbers, some recent numbers that are just out. And when asked, Americans, "Do you think the country needs to move in a new direction?" These poll numbers suggest that 59 percent say "yes," and 38 percent say "no." And a lot of folks are still uncertain about Kerry, although they want a new direction. What's the discrepancy here?
BROWNSTEIN: That is really the -- frames the challenge for John Kerry at this convention this week, those two numbers. The gap between the percentage of Americans who are now open to change and those who now say they're ready to support John Kerry for President. It seems, as you look across the board at the numbers, where there are poll numbers you just cited, the percentage saying they want to re- elect the president, the percentage who say the country is on the wrong track. There is, at this point, a slight majority in many of these polls for change. But John Kerry hasn't yet convinced voters he can deliver that change, many, about a third in our poll say they still don't know enough about him to now whether if he'd be a better president than George Bush. And his task, really, here this week, is more to fill in the blanks about himself than to make a case against Bush.
NGUYEN: Exactly. We want to put up those poll numbers now. When asked, "Do you know enough about John Kerry's policies to decide if he'd be a better President than George Bush?" 59 percent said "yes," 34 percent said "no." So, is he going to have to talking a lot of specifics at this convention to sway these voters?
BROWNSTEIN: Both specifics and I think also they believe even more important, biography and explaining who he is. You know, for the challenger, the convention really is a critical event in the race. Before the convention, it's hard to tell your story as a challenger in any kind of systematic way. People get snippets of information about you on the news, they might see an ad if they live in the battleground states. But often you're kind of a cardboard character. The convention is where challengers really have to flush themselves out into someone that voters feel they can trust; they have a sense of their values, what's important to them, what shaped them. That's always been difficult for Kerry to make that personal connection with voters. But in the end the pivot of whether this convention is a success will largely be whether he can accomplish that task himself Thursday night when he has the spotlight.
NGUYEN: And that character analysis is going to rely heavily on his family. Members are speaking there at the convention. Also some of the men he served with in Vietnam. What is their message?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, I talked to a senior Kerry people planning this campaign. They say, "Look, 75 percent of what we want to get out of this week is convincing Americans that John Kerry will keep them safe. The other 25 percent is convincing them he's a man of conviction whose policies flow out of strong beliefs." Not coincidentally, those are direct rebuttals to the two principle arguments that President Bush and his campaign have made against Kerry in their advertising, that he's weak on defense, that he's irresolute and a flip-flopper. Now, the veterans and combat comrades really from Vietnam are critical on both ends. Obviously, they send a message of national security, but they're also going to send a message this is someone that can be trusted, who you can depend on in a pinch. And that is again, rebutting what is at the essence of one of these Bush arguments. Part of the flip-flopper argument is you don't know where Kerry is going to be when times are tough and we are obviously living in an era when times do get tough.
NGUYEN: Quickly Ron, the problem with this convention could be the fact that a lot of folks just aren't tuning into political conventions like they used to in the past. So, how much of a bounce is it really going to give the Kerry-Edwards campaign?
BROWNSTEIN: The viewership, the direct viewership is about half what it was a generation ago. It's still an enormously important event because of the reflected media. I mean it dominates the news shows and the print media for the entire week. A lot more people get information from it than directly, who are watching it as it proceeds. This is an important event for them. Historically, the challenger can get about six points on average in their poll numbers, that would push Kerry over 50 percent if he does. The Kerry people say it's unrealistic to expect that much because the electorate is so polarized. What they're really hoping for Betty, is to solidify impressions of him, to have voters feel more comfortable in him personally, that he's ready to be commander-in-chief, that they know him, that his vote is more stable, people feel more committed to it. Those second tier measures, below the top line poll, may be where the impact of this convention is measured most.
NGUYEN: And of course, we will wait and see if that happens. Political analyst, Ron Brownstein, thank you very much.
GRIFFIN: There's been another threat from al-Qaeda today. Italy and Australia threatened with waves of violence unless they withdraw their troops from Iraq. The threats posted on an Islamic Web site by a group calling itself "Islamic Unification" which is the al-Qaeda organization in Europe. The message warns of a bloodbath in Australia and promises the car bombs will not stop coming. Italy is warned, quoting now, "You will have columns of car bombs shaking your cities." Australia's foreign affairs minister says his country will not give in to terrorists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER DOWNER, AUSTRALIAN FOREIGN AFFAIRS MINISTER: We take all threats seriously, but on the other hand, Australia sends a message out to the world and that is that we won't bow to threats. In the end, if we allow these sorts of threats to determine our foreign policy, then what we'll do is empower the terrorists and, of course if we empower the terrorists, then the terrorists will become virulent and increasingly successful.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Australia has about 800 troops in Iraq, Italy about 2,700.
And the terror threats come amid new rounds of violence in Iraq. Thirteen insurgents killed in a battle with U.S. forces, and for the latest on that we go to Matthew Chance who is live today in Baghdad -- Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Drew, thank you. And that battle taking place just north of Baghdad near the town of Bariz, a few kilometers away from here. In fact, 13 insurgents killed by Iraqi National Guard and police forces as they were supposed to be defending U.S. First Armored Division on a raid in the area looking for hideouts of the group which is controlled by Abu Musab Zarqawi. They were carrying out the security duties when they came under attack. They fought back, the United States Army provided air support and artillery support, so just one of the examples of how now Iraqi forces alongside U.S. and coalition forces are battling together the insurgents out there in the field.
Now, all this violence taking place as efforts continue to secure the release of the various hostages that are being held by Iraqi militant, particularly the Egyptian diplomat whose been the most prominent of these hostages. He was seized by militants in response, they say, to Egypt offering security assistance to Iraq. But also a great deal of efforts to try and secure the seven truck drivers from India and Kenya, another one from Egypt as well. Efforts being made to negotiate with those hostage takers as well, or at least to try and get those hostage takers to release the seven truck drivers. No positive indication of any release, though, coming soon -- Drew.
GRIFFIN: Matthew Chance in Baghdad, thank you for that report -- Betty.
NGUYEN: So is America losing the war on terror?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's not many people out the Middle East who are listening to us. Indeed, the genius of bin Laden has been to focus on a number of U.S. policies that are opposed by Muslims across the ideological spectrum.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: An insider's perspective.
Family, friends and authorities, meanwhile, continued their search in Utah. The latest in the Lori Hacking case.
And for the latest forecast across the country, we turn now to Rob Marciano. Good morning.
(WEATHER BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: New details now on the search for a missing jogger in Utah. Salt Lake City police are studying a clump of brown hair found in a carwash dumpster. Lori Hacking, the jogger missing since Monday has brown hair and the dumpster is less than a block from the store where her husband, Mark Hacking, bought a mattress just before he reported his wife missing. Yesterday, the woman's mother made tearful plea for her daughter's safe return.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THELMA SOARES, LORI HACKING'S MOTHER: She's my only daughter. Please help up find her one way or another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Police say Mark Hacking is a person of interest, but not a suspect in the case, Drew.
GRIFFIN: When a CIA agent decided he wanted to write a book on the war on terror, his boss gave him two criteria: He can't use his name and he can't talk about what he does. The book is called "Imperial Hubris" and it focuses on what the agent calls "America's failures in the war on terror." I talked with the writer yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: The book is somewhat groundbreaking, especially during this political season because the conclusion is not only are we not winning this war on terror, we are indeed losing this war on terror. What is your argument for that?
ANONYMOUS, AUTHOR, "IMPERIAL HUBRIS": Well, sir, I don't think we've quite grasped what our enemy is up to. Our leaders over the last decade have continued to say they are out to destroy our society or our democracy or our voting rights, our civilization and it's just not the case. Bin Laden is motivated by his religion, of course. But those that follow him are focused on a really dislike or hatred of U.S. policies in the Middle East.
GRIFFIN: But, isn't bin laden and his efforts really a moving target? At first he was against Russians in Afghanistan when the battle was won there, he talked about removing American soldiers from Saudi Arabia, when that took place he moved on to the next battle and indeed when we were struck on September 11, we were neither in Iraq or Afghanistan, and yet that seems to be bin Laden and his cause now.
ANONYMOUS: Well, certainly, sir, his goal after beating the soviets, which was our goal at the same time, was to move the United States out of the region. And there are so many misunderstandings out there. As far as bin Laden and most Muslims are concerned we haven't left the Arabian Peninsula. Most Muslims don't see the peninsula as a series of states but just one area. So what we've managed to do is to fool Americans, basically, by moving from Saudi Arabia to Qatar. In essence for Muslims, we still occupy the Arabian Peninsula, so it's just a developing war against the United States. I don't believe it's change that much except it's broadened and our forces are more available to be hit in more places in the world.
GRIFFIN: And the undercurrent seems to be as long as we support Israel, as long as there are Jews in the Middle East, there will always be terror.
ANONYMOUS: Well, certainly from the hardliners and bin Laden himself, that's true, but I think there's more than just Israel. It's -- you know, there's a list of five or six policies that bin Laden has focused on since 1996 which included, unqualified support for Israel, but go much further. They go to our ability to manipulate oil prices to keep them acceptable to western consumers, our support for what he identifies, and what really are tyrannical governments from the Atlantic to the Indian Ocean in the Muslim world. Our presence in two of the most holy places in Islam: Iraq and Afghanistan. There's a very specific slate of policies that really have been in place for the United States for the last 25 to 30 years and haven't been looked at, they've kind of been on autopilot.
GRIFFIN: The 9/11 Commission report and its members talked about solving this Islamic fundamentalist problem and reaching out to more moderate Islamic entities and trying to basically launch a P.R. campaign designed to make America loose less -- or more Islamic friendly. Is that the right path we should be taking?
ANONYMOUS: Sir, if there's anything more useless than that, I'm not quite sure what it would be. There's no many -- there's not many people out in the Middle East who are listening to us. Indeed, the genius of bin Laden has been to focus on a number of U.S. policies that opposed by Muslims across the ideological spectrum, from liberal Muslims to moderate Muslims to militant Muslims. I think the idea that somehow we're going to talk the Islamic world out of their hatred for our policies is just a fantasy.
GRIFFIN: So what are you suggesting? We appease bin Laden?
ANONYMOUS: Hardly.
GRIFFIN: We get out of the entire Middle East?
ANONYMOUS: No, sir, hardly. I am certainly not doing that. I wrote the book for two reasons, first to try to alert Americans to the lethality of this threat and second to suggest that we have to use, in essence, what is our only option at the moment, is the military option, a bit harder. And my long-term goal, if I have any influence at all, is simply to have a debate in the United States over those policies that have been in place, as I said, for 30 years. If they are not benefiting America anymore, maybe it's time to talk about some of them. Nobody wants to abandon Israel, but maybe we shouldn't appear to be the dog being led by the tail so often.
But it's very hard -- you know, you are -- you suggest the discussion of Israeli policy and you become labeled in anti-Semite. You discuss oil self-sufficient and become the enemy of environmentalists or oil companies, so in the land of free speech it's very hard to have a national security debate if so many issues are off limits.
GRIFFIN: So, in the short run, though, your book says we are losing this war on terror and yet the solution seems to be only to fight it harder.
ANONYMOUS: Well, that's the only solution we've left ourselves at the moment, sir. And it's neither admirable nor desirable to have to use the military so often or so aggressively, but the only way to really cut into bin Laden's potential for growth over time is to have a sound, thorough going look at our policies. And at the end of the day, Americans may decide to keep the status quo and if they do, well, then that's fine, that's a democracy, but at least they'll be going into this war knowing how bloody and long it will be.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: The author goes on to say it's a fantasy to think there will ever be democracy in places like Afghanistan where Muslim rules have been in place for decades, even centuries. He also says the war in Iraq was like giving bin Laden a Christmas present because it merely helped spread the al-Qaeda movement -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Well coming up, he's about to do what no one else has done before. We're going to check on Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROB MARCIANO, METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, San Francisco. Your Sunday forecast is just a minute away.
GRIFFIN: The lead cyclists in the Tour de France are approaching the heart of Paris, but it's all about Lance Armstrong who is virtually assured of winning his record-breaking sixth win. Jim Bitterman has been following the bikes since they left Montereau and he's on the phone with an update.
JIM BITTERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Drew, it's absolutely about Lance Armstrong and the entire U.S. Postal team, they are at the front of the pack. They've just passed through a rather large forest on their way towards Euro Disney, so you know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Paris, that's on the east side of Paris, still about 20 miles outside the city, and they have about an hour of riding yet before they get into the city. When they do get into the city, they're going to make eight circuits down the Champs Elysees -- the avenue Champs Elysees the largest and most prestigious avenue in Paris running from the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) off to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) course, eight times around and then finally the finish line. Moving in quite a laid back pace they're about 19 minutes slower than the expected times. It's almost like a leisurely ride through the country side. But you can't be fooled by that because the fact is at any time, any one of these riders could go riding off and try to challenge Lance Armstrong who is in the lead, and if they did, he would be obliged to then catch up with and pass them.
GRIFFIN: Certainly something that he can to.
BITTERMAN: He's shown it all the way through and that's really why nobody seems to be challenging him very much today. I mean he started the race today six minutes and 38 seconds ahead of the next closest rider, so it was virtually impossible for him to catch up -- for anyone to catch up with that kind of diligent time.
GRIFFIN: Jim, just real quickly, I'm interested in this. Are you on one of those motor bikes on the back or are you actually in a car?
BITTERMAN: I'd love to be, but you know what? I'm not. I'm in a car. We're kind of following along at a distance.
GRIFFIN: All right. Have a great time. Thanks, Jim.
NGUYEN: Well, that may make some folks want to get up and take a little ride today. How is the weather looking for that, Rob.
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